![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 18, 2010, at 15:55:15
Friends,
Many of you alreadey know that I am here for a purpose. My purpose here is to save lives.
The infomation that I have states that about 40,000 people die each year from the effects of psychotropic drugs from one means or another. This figure could be just those that die in the U.S. If so, by interpolation of populations, the number of people that die in the world each year from psychotropic drugs then could be according to my interpolation, 500,000 or maybe more. This then could mean that millions of people could die from the effects of psychotropic drugs in the years going forward if there are no changes made in the number of people taking psychotr4opic drugs. Using the 40,000 people figure, that each year around 40,000 people die from taking psychotropic drugs from one means or another, that could be looked at like about every month more people die from the effects of taking psychotropic drugs then died in the 911 attacks on the World Trade Center buildings. And this is happening every month and could be even more in number looking at the math progression of people taking these drugs.
Now I ask you, could there be facts unbeknownst to some readers here that if these facts were known that one could make a more informed decision as to if one would want to take these drugs or not? And if there are facts, could not the posting of these facts have the potential to save lives?
Now there or one, two, three, four, five, six, topics that could be unbeknownst to some, facts that IMO could make the difference between a live person and a corpse, that the rules made here prevent me from posting.
The first topic is the historical aspect of psychotropic drugs in relation to the historical period that I prohibited from posting about.
Here is a site that includes some of what I am prohibited from posting here that I think could bring out some of the facts that may be unbeknownst to you that could IMHO give you infomation that could be used to make a more informed decision as to taking or not mind-altering drugs.
Lou
To bring up this site and one of its informative topics:
A. Bring up google
B. Type in;
[PsychAssault, Anatomy of today's]
It usually is the first one on top and you will see the statement[...offers a psychological analysis...]
Now if one reads the pages and finds something that awakens them to something that was unbeknownst to them, could they post here that they saw such or email me?
Posted by Christ_empowered on October 18, 2010, at 16:24:06
In reply to Lou's request-one of 6 topics, posted by Lou Pilder on October 18, 2010, at 15:55:15
Psychiatric drugs are potent, and they have very real side-effects. That said, one shouldn't be too quick to dismiss them as evil or dangerous and lacking in any redeeming value.
I personally think the problem with psychiatry (at least from what I see in my little corner of the US) is over use of medication. People who might respond to therapy or other non-medical means of treatment are given all kinds of drugs, and then the shrinks act as if its somehow the patients fault that they're not responding to meds.
I think in cases of severe mental illness--psychotic and/or severe depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, so on and so forth--the evidence is pretty clear that meds can be useful, IF they are given in proper dosages, care is taken to avoid and address side effects, and the patient is also given access to other forms of treatment (vocational training, therapy, etc.).
I appreciate your concern for the rest of us here at Babble, but I also think you may want to think about the *positive* impact proper use of medication can have on the lives of people afflicted with mental illness (and those around them).
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 18, 2010, at 17:01:26
In reply to OK..., posted by Christ_empowered on October 18, 2010, at 16:24:06
C_e,
You wrote,[...if they are given in their proper dosage...proper use of medications (mind-altering drugs)...].
Do not those that are given psychotropic drugs take them as directed and A. could be addicted to it?
B. could have induced a mind-altered state to want to kill themselves or others?
C. could have diabetes inflicted upon them from the drug?
D. could have tardive dyskinesia inflicted upon them by the drug?
E could die from heart problems from the drug?
F. numerous other life-ruining states as a result of taking the drug(s) including death?
Now in the liturature, the effects of the drugs are listed as taking the drugs in their prescribed dosage. I am unsure as to what you are wanting to lead people to believe here. Could you clarify as to if the people addicted to psychotropic drugs have or have not taken the drugs as prescribed or not in the proper dosage?
Lou
Posted by Maxime on October 18, 2010, at 21:18:29
In reply to Lou's request-one of 6 topics, posted by Lou Pilder on October 18, 2010, at 15:55:15
Hey Lou, now it's my turn to ask you some questions.
Who are you Lou? Maybe you could write an intro of who you are and what you do.What is your background? When did you become interested in harmful effects of psych meds? Have you ever taken any psych meds? Do you know of anyone who has died from psych meds (ODs don't count). Why and when did you start this crusade. Do you have mental illnesses yourself? Do you post on other psych med boards?
Thanks.
Posted by morgan miller on October 19, 2010, at 1:23:23
In reply to Lou's reply-ehywheych » Christ_empowered, posted by Lou Pilder on October 18, 2010, at 17:01:26
> C_e,
> You wrote,[...if they are given in their proper dosage...proper use of medications (mind-altering drugs)...].
> Do not those that are given psychotropic drugs take them as directed and A. could be addicted to it?
> B. could have induced a mind-altered state to want to kill themselves or others?
> C. could have diabetes inflicted upon them from the drug?
> D. could have tardive dyskinesia inflicted upon them by the drug?
> E could die from heart problems from the drug?
> F. numerous other life-ruining states as a result of taking the drug(s) including death?
> Now in the liturature, the effects of the drugs are listed as taking the drugs in their prescribed dosage. I am unsure as to what you are wanting to lead people to believe here. Could you clarify as to if the people addicted to psychotropic drugs have or have not taken the drugs as prescribed or not in the proper dosage?
> LouWho the hell says everyone on psychiatric drugs are addicted. I stopped Zoloft 3 years ago without any problems. I didn't stop because I had any issues with it, I was fine actually, I just wanted to see what it was like to be off a medication I was on for 7 years. I believed I was better and was never going to take a medication again. I felt fine for a few months, mentally and physiologically. At about five months, the perfect storm of events and circumstances sent me into a very damaging and horrific major mixed episode. One of the components of this perfect storm was that I was NOT on any medication. If I had been on Zoloft or something else like it that was working well with ZERO side effects(at least no bad ones), I am positive I would not have had such a terrible mixed episode and I would not have ended up in the hospital. And do NOT start thinking that medication had screwed my brain up and that was why I had a mixed episode. I had a mixed episode when I was 22, before I had ever taken any medication in my life. I am bipolar. I did not know that at 22 or 34, but after that last awful mixed episode, I was diagnosed and realized the importance of being on medication that was helping is some way to prevent severe episodes that WILL do more damage in many ways than most medications can do.
Lou, I really think you are a bit out of line bro. I probably should not read your messages anymore. I will tell you right now-I know someone is going to give me a warning or kick me outa here for a week or more-you should NOT continue to be allowed to post your anti-drug propaganda on this board. This is a place where people come to support other people. You simply have a very selfish personal agenda. I do think you want to warn people and make an impact, but there is a selfish aspect to your posting here, I have no doubt. Sh*t, I will admit that some of my posts are made out of my own selfish needs. Dude, you gotta see how you really are not helping anyone here. I see your posts as inflammatory. I understand the post I am making is a bit inflammatory. I guess I'm just pissed off and I'm tired of you coming on here and not offering any support, just telling people that they are harming themselves for taking medications.
Dr. Bob, this is b*llsh*t. I know your are going to come here and tell me the usual. I know what I said may have been somewhat hurtful, you don't have to tell me. I also will not take it personally when you give me a warning or block me for however long. So you don't have to tell me that either. I keep hearing that psycho-babble is not what it used to be, maybe you should take a hard look at the way this site is run and try to make some changes. I'm kinda getting tired of everyone having to walk on eggshells and be so damn PC about everything. I believe there should be rules and I do not think people should be able to come on here and be flat out mean or purposefully malicious. But, I do think people should be able to express their feelings and opinions here, as long as they make a point to communicate it without malice.
See you all whenever!
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on October 19, 2010, at 1:32:28
In reply to Maxime's request to Lou -wlekrjslrj » Lou Pilder, posted by Maxime on October 18, 2010, at 21:18:29
Nice post Maxime. I'm curious about these answers too. Hopefully Lou will answer your questions.
I have a few more:
Lou,
1)Why do you post in this question format? Especially since I have seen you write and speak to us in a more conventional way?
2)Do you think you could communicate in other ways that would make it easier for people to understand you and respond to your posts?
3)Why did you come to Psycho-Babble in the first place?I don't want you to feel like you are being bullied. I just want to try to understand you a little better, then I may not get as pissed off by your posts. You caught me on a bad day, I don't feel I have much of a tolerance for things right now. I have just been ignoring some of your posts so I would not respond in an unhealthy way and feel the urge to tell you what is really on my mind. Sorry bro, please just try to understand my and others' frustration.
Morgan
Posted by ed_uk2010 on October 19, 2010, at 13:28:49
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-ehywheych, posted by morgan miller on October 19, 2010, at 1:23:23
>I know someone is going to give me a warning or kick me outa here for a week or more
I hope not - I share your frustration.
Posted by europerep on October 19, 2010, at 15:28:34
In reply to Lou's request-one of 6 topics, posted by Lou Pilder on October 18, 2010, at 15:55:15
> The infomation that I havewould you please consider *sharing* this information, including its sources? I hear this all the time from you "my information", "my research", "my interpolation".. I don't give a damn about some crazy conspiracy website and youtube videos, quite frankly noone on here does, because we're still reasonable people!
I am personally freakin' pissed by your attitude on here, which is SOOO condescending it's hardly expressable in words.. maybe if you didn't talk down to everyone people would respect your contributions and interact with you the way this usually happens in a forum, but like this...
while I am not leaving this forum (well, I will be blocked, but only temporarily), it sure is frustrating to me how lou is being allowed to just hijack one thread after another, usually marking the death of a discussion...
Posted by morgan miller on October 19, 2010, at 20:50:58
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-ehywheych » morgan miller, posted by ed_uk2010 on October 19, 2010, at 13:28:49
Well I'm have not been suspended yet. I'm guessing I at least get a warning, which is fair I guess. I was in a fiery mood last night, it's actually a good thing.
Lou, I know you mean well, I just hope you understand my frustration. Sorry if I said anything that hurt you, that is not my intention.
Posted by Sailboat77 on October 20, 2010, at 0:48:21
In reply to Re: Maxime's request to Lou -wlekrjslrj » Maxime, posted by morgan miller on October 19, 2010, at 1:32:28
Like expressed before, it would be a great help if we knew your accredited literature and medical studies were openly published by individuals with proven credentials, possibly educated/sponsored by a university OR some other higher education. There always needs to be a verification process of medical studies by following up on the initial analysis.
Medical investigations and testimonies require credentials because evidence that stands alone simply can't be trusted on a person's word alone. I guess what I'm getting at is that there needs to be background information about the studies you cite, the persons who are doing the medical research, and proper documentation that these are "Medical Experts" with genuine degrees who have years of essential training on the complex, complex, complex topic of brain structure and brain chemistry. Otherwise, a lot of this sounds like a conspiracy theory (I'm just being honest here and am trying not to judge).
Your own background information would be helpful as well, because Babblefish is a very open and personal forum that works upon a basis of openness.
I should note that I've tried almost every different class of anti-depressant and atypical anti-psychotic medication for the past 5 years, although not continually. Every 3 or 6 months, after a medication was deemed by one of many doctors and myself as not having any influence on my mood or behavior, I would stop taking whatever medication it was for a month or more to let all the chemicals drain out of my system before considering something new.I must say that I personally, although I can't speak for everybody, never developed a dependency on any anti-depressant or anti-psychotic medication. There was never a period where I had a craving to take one or a moment where I lost my ability to stop (I never had trouble stopping or staying off any med when I was asked to).
I respect that you want to help, but I feel as though you are terribly misguided. Most important of all, I don't know the personal reasons for your crusade. What happened in your life?
Posted by Deputy Racer on October 20, 2010, at 12:55:15
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-ehywheych, posted by morgan miller on October 19, 2010, at 1:23:23
>
> I will tell you right now-I know someone is going to give me a warning or kick me outa here for a week or more-you should NOT continue to be allowed to post your anti-drug propaganda on this board. ... You simply have a very selfish personal agenda.
>
> Dr. Bob, this is b*llsh*t. I know your are going to come here and tell me the usual. I know what I said may have been somewhat hurtful, you don't have to tell me. I also will not take it personally when you give me a warning or block me for however long. So you don't have to tell me that either.Please don't post anything which could lead others to feel accused or put down. If you believe another poster has violated the civility guidelines, please use the Notify Administrator button, rather than violating those guidelines yourself.
Additionally, you seem aware that your post has violated the civility guidelines, and that you will receive a warning from the site administration. You also correctly identify the solution suggested to those who find a particular posters views to be unpleasant or offensive: choose not to read what that individual posts.
If you have any questions regarding the posting policies on this site, please read the FAQ, located at http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil Follow ups to this action should be directed to the Administration board and should themselves be civil.
Dr Bob has ultimate authority over all administrative issues on this site, and may choose at any time to revise or reverse any action taken by a deputy.
Deputy Racer
Posted by morgan miller on October 20, 2010, at 22:41:11
In reply to Please be civil » morgan miller, posted by Deputy Racer on October 20, 2010, at 12:55:15
>Additionally, you seem aware that your post has violated the civility guidelines, and that you will receive a warning from the site administration. You also correctly identify the solution suggested to those who find a particular posters views to be unpleasant or offensive: choose not to read what that individual posts.
Sure, but I find it hard to ignore someone's posts that may be doing harm to the community here. The same reason why you should not be ignoring Lou's posts. Hint hint.
Posted by Conundrum on October 25, 2010, at 16:16:12
In reply to Lou's request-one of 6 topics, posted by Lou Pilder on October 18, 2010, at 15:55:15
I've seen a lot of threads where a problem with lou has emerged. I think I can be of some help, because I may be able to relate with lou.
When I was 13 I started playing guitar. Between that and video games it was my favorite thing to do.
When I was 16 I had a lot of anxiety and depression emerged. I was prescribed prozac and started to feel better.
After 4 years I decided to stop taking the medication and the sh*t hit the fan. I experienced derealization, akaethesia, anhedonia, my memory became horrible and I lost the ability to concentrate. In the first 2 years after stopping I was extremely paranoid and had relgious spiritual thoughts that were bizarre and did believe that psych drugs were part of a larger mind control/mind numbing gov't operation.
I started taking gingko biloba for memeory and after 2 years on it, my memory had not improved. So I stopped it. The paranoid and spiritual feelings, left and I became much more realistic and logical, but the anhedonia became worse.
For 7 years I have suffered with anhedonia, poor memory, lack of confidence and worst of all I don't enjoy music like I used to. It doesn't have the same emotional "umph!" it used to. I can't play by ear as well, and its very hard for me to concentrate on playing difficult peices. I have trouble maintaining motivation when working. I feel mentally slowed down and somewhat robotic.
My personal relationships have suffered, since the anhedonia, and lack of color, prevents me from feeling the true effects of love.
I know this was from the psych drugs and not just a returning depression. The depression may have returned, but the drugs took something away from me. This is far worse than I felt prior to taking prozac. Now their is less sadness and anxiety and more a feeling of, I"ll never feel human again.
Anyway. I see where Lou may be coming from, and if his head is where mine was and sometimes still is, he is just trying to prevent others from getting hurt by these drugs.
I truly believe psych drugs should be the last resort for depression, anxiety, and ADHD. They are loaded with side effects.
Yes Lou, the drugs they give kids for ADHD are addictive, and it can lead to a greater chance of abusing drugs as an adult.
Of course the APs can cause diabetes and TD.
People need to know the good and the bad that can come from taking these drugs, and decide for themselves what is best. I think that is the reason for the black box warnings on so many antidepressants, because the FDA has acknowledged that psych drugs can actually make people who were never suicidal before, want to kill themselves.
These are powerful mood altering drugs. I think Lou was a victim of the effects of a powerful AP, Zyprexa, if I remember. He now also has trouble playing music and I can tell you that I'm in that place and it is very frustrating. I think Lou really wants to prevent harm that drugs can cause.
I think Lou, you need to realize that many people are helped by medications, not everyone ends up dead who takes them.
http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=11909
Read some of the peoples reviews here. You will see many claiming nardil saved/restored their life. Nardil is one of the most dangerous psych drugs available! It can kill you if you eat the wrong foods! Yet it is life saving for some who are educated and follow the correct lifestyle guidelines.
Lou, you are right in pointing out the side effects of many drugs. Most people would not make the effort that you have, but if you do not acknowledge that drugs can help people, you're going to be seen as off on the fringe and dishonest. No one will take your message the drugs have critical side effects seriously.
Millions of people would not be taking/have taken these drugs if all they did was cause harm. You need to think more critically about the media you consume. If a person overdoses on valium, alcohol, and heroin, you can't just say that the psych drug made them do it! You have to look at the situations in the persons lives, and how the drug works when it is not being abused. Most people who take valium do not have the urge to kill themselves. Yes valium can be bad if you are suicidal, but so can a rope, a knife, a bathtub, a window. Its almost like you are saying no one should use knives because they could hurt themselves. People shouldn't use knives unless they know how to use a knife and the dangers of using one.
Until you look at the benefits of psychotropic drugs, no one will take your criticisms of them seriously.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 28, 2010, at 18:15:51
In reply to Lou's request-one of 6 topics, posted by Lou Pilder on October 18, 2010, at 15:55:15
> Here is a site that includes some of what I am prohibited from posting here
If you're prohibited from posting something here, please don't post how to find it elsewhere.
But please don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person, and I'm sorry if this hurts you.
More information about posting policies is in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforce
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 28, 2010, at 18:15:58
In reply to Re: Lou's request-one of 6 topics, posted by Conundrum on October 25, 2010, at 16:16:12
> I appreciate your concern for the rest of us here at Babble, but I also think you may want to think about the *positive* impact proper use of medication can have on the lives of people afflicted with mental illness (and those around them).
>
> Christ_empowered> I may be able to relate with lou.
>
> I see where Lou may be coming from, and if his head is where mine was and sometimes still is, he is just trying to prevent others from getting hurt by these drugs.
>
> People need to know the good and the bad that can come from taking these drugs, and decide for themselves what is best.
>
> ConundrumThanks for encouraging balance. If for whatever reason a particular poster presents only one side, then I think I'd see it as up to other posters to present the other sides. It would be a kind of division of labor, with the end result still being balanced.
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.