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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Buckeye Fan on October 14, 2010, at 8:10:10
Hi to all~I hav'nt posted in a while, but thought I would check in and kinda bounce what's going on with me off the group and maybe get some advice or direction.
I have been OFF my long-term use of anti-depressants since January of this year.
I have been OFF my long term use of Xanax since 2007.I am currently still ON 25mgs of Librium per day...and 100 mgs of Trazadone at bedtime.
These remaining two PMeds are leftover prescriptions from 3 and 1/2 years ago, prescribed my a phycologist...when I was withdrawling from xanax and weekly alcohol use. My current MD admits he is not well versed in mental health issues...so I have contunued to ask him to refill these two Meds.
Here is my situation currently.
I am depressed beyond anything I have ever experienced. I am not whining....Im just trying to rationally state the facts so that I can recover.
I have just lost my job....which is a blessing and a curse. I was so depressed and disorganized in my thinking, I was performing well below my best. Just getting out of bed and getting ready for work ( or the day) was and is a challenge. The anxiety of the 70 hour per week high-stress job was totally consuming me menatlly and physically.
I feel isolated, alone, defeated and unable to handle life right now.There is the temptation to return to the numbing effects of an anti-depressant.
I am aware that Trazadone is an anti-depressant, but it was prescribed for insominia...and is well known for its weak anti-depressant qualities. Besides..I feel it has diminished effects after 3 years of use anyways.
The Librium has prevented any panic attacks, and I realize it is a benzo.Should I use this time of unemployment to ween off the Trazadone and Librium?
I know in my heart that I do not want to get back on the anti-depressant rollercoaster ride again...but when I consider the alternative of this life draining depression...I am between a rock and a hard place.
This current severe depression started about 3 months ago..and is gradually growing worse. I cannot overstate the way I am feeling...life has lost its joy...there is no comfort in anything. Routine daily tasks are a challenge...and I feel myself wanting to isolate from the world around me...which I KNOW is unhealthy and a symptom of depression.
Thanks for listening
Posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2010, at 11:04:03
In reply to Advice needed, posted by Buckeye Fan on October 14, 2010, at 8:10:10
How frustrating this must be for you. Long hours at a job can drain you, cause anxiety with deadlines, and then lead to depression. No idea what type of job really doesn't matter. But I guess it's good you have been off ad's for so long as might have to try one for a short period to get back on track. Also since you are ad free have you thought of first trying ST Johns Wort or something like Sam-e? I guess you need an evaluation from a pdoc did you see one when on ad's and could you see the same one as he would know how you were when he last saw you. I'm betting with that long off ad's that one would work again for you. As for the trazadone and librium. I'd see a pdoc first. That's just my opinion of course. What was you prior diagnosis? Geez losing a job and the fear of losing on is very stressful in itself. Phillipa
Posted by Buckeye Fan on October 14, 2010, at 11:39:57
In reply to Re: Advice needed » Buckeye Fan, posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2010, at 11:04:03
> How frustrating this must be for you. Long hours at a job can drain you, cause anxiety with deadlines, and then lead to depression. No idea what type of job really doesn't matter.
So true Phillipa...I really underestimated the stress of returning to a job I had previously been able to do while on both Zoloft and xanax.
Trying to put in the same hours and deal with the stress without these meds was impossible for me.
I also had no idea it would lead to such debilitating depression.
And to complicate matters...I am now wondering if long-term permenant damage has been done to my system. I just cannot seem to stay focused...retain information...or execute and multitask as I once could. I get overwhelmed easily...and experience a mid level anxiety throughout the day..even when there are no anxiety provoking things happening!But I guess it's good you have been off ad's for so long as might have to try one for a short period to get back on track. Also since you are ad free have you thought of first trying ST Johns Wort or something like Sam-e? I guess you need an evaluation from a pdoc did you see one when on ad's and could you see the same one as he would know how you were when he last saw you. I'm betting with that long off ad's that one would work again for you.
With the damage I believe has been done by the years on meds...I really do not want to return to that cycle again.
On the other hand...THIS is certainly no way to live.
So I am stuck right now...indecisive as usual.
As for the trazadone and librium. I'd see a pdoc first. That's just my opinion of course. What was you prior diagnosis?My diagnosis was anxiety.
In hindsight...I realize now that I did have a couple of bouts of severe depression in my late teens and early twenties. I never sought treatment..and things eventually got better on their own.
That was decades ago however....and a hint that I would struggle with anxiety and panic attacks later on, I just didnt realize it at the time.Now with age and 10 years of being on anti anxiety meds...I am no longer the same "me" as I previously existed.
I know none of us are...that everyone changes as we age, but I fear a more fundemental change has occurred with the Meds...and now I dont know how to get back to being able to function drug-free.
Geez losing a job and the fear of losing on is very stressful in itself. Phillipa
Posted by EERR11CC on October 14, 2010, at 15:27:44
In reply to Advice needed, posted by Buckeye Fan on October 14, 2010, at 8:10:10
I am sorry. I understand how you are feeling. It is the most dehumanizing disease. It will end, you will find peace.
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 14, 2010, at 16:40:04
In reply to Re: Advice needed, posted by EERR11CC on October 14, 2010, at 15:27:44
> I am sorry. I understand how you are feeling. It is the most dehumanizing disease. It will end, you will find peace.
EERRllCC,
You wrote,[...will end, you will find...]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. Assuming that it will end while one is alive, what criteria need to exist for it to end?
B. Why will it end then?
C. Assuming that one is alive when they find peace, what could one look for to find it?
D. In your understanding, could someone find peace without taking psychotropic drugs?
E. other questions if the above are answerd.
Lou
Posted by Maxime on October 14, 2010, at 22:07:44
In reply to Re: Advice needed, posted by Buckeye Fan on October 14, 2010, at 11:39:57
I'm trying to come off my meds, so I will curious to see what sort of responses you get. I also feel that meds have "damaged" me .. my brain. It's hard to explain.
I hope you find something to help you. You can live with how you are feeling right now. Let us know what you decide.
Posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2010, at 22:13:55
In reply to Re: Advice needed » Buckeye Fan, posted by Maxime on October 14, 2010, at 22:07:44
In a way it's feeling a pill can stop all your problems. No depression panic attacks then Gad. Hormones are allowing me to cut the benzo use as tired now no insomnia at all. That's transdermal applied to the skin. Phillipa ps I don't think of it as brain damage just that I should have delt with problems the meds covered up.
Posted by Maxime on October 14, 2010, at 22:55:33
In reply to Re: Advice needed, posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2010, at 22:13:55
> In a way it's feeling a pill can stop all your problems. No depression panic attacks then Gad. Hormones are allowing me to cut the benzo use as tired now no insomnia at all. That's transdermal applied to the skin. Phillipa ps I don't think of it as brain damage just that I should have delt with problems the meds covered up.
Yes, I understand what you mean about using a med to cover up issues that would best be treated through therapy. Meds are less expensive so I guess that is why we depend on the meds so much.
Posted by Lil'Deb on October 14, 2010, at 23:22:39
In reply to Re: Advice needed, posted by Buckeye Fan on October 14, 2010, at 11:39:57
Depression is awful! Don't feel like taking medication for your depression is a bad thing. Too many people do that and don't receive treatment. Therapy does help many people, but not everyone. Therapy will not help chemical imbalances in the brain. For me, depression tends to run in my family, regardless of past experiences. I have been on an antidepressant for years, because everytime I stop, the depression returns. The loss of motivation, concentration, pleasure in life - everything you're feeling. The last time, I almost lost my job until a caring colleague confronted me about trying a different medication. I understand your hesitation to take medication - but not all antidepressant are alike. I agree that you should see your psych dr. and be reevaled. It is likely that you don't need the Librium and Trazadone any longer, and the doc could help wean those meds and start you on something that may help. The doc may also help you decide between the lesser of two evils - medication or continued depression. We all know that there is no such thing as a "happy pill", but without my antidepressant, I am not able to function. There are answers and things do get better. The trick is not to give up and keep looking for them, just like you are now. I wish you the best of luck and hope things improve for you soon.
Posted by SLS on October 15, 2010, at 5:34:12
In reply to Re: Advice needed » Buckeye Fan, posted by Lil'Deb on October 14, 2010, at 23:22:39
> Depression is awful!
Severe depression is a walking death.
> Therapy does help many people, but not everyone.
Yup.
> Therapy will not help chemical imbalances in the brain.
Although I have gained absolutely no improvement in my depression from years of psychotherapy, I must say that there is some evidence that psychotherapy can change brain chemistry. It might depend on the endophenotype being treated. Again, we have here an example of how different we all are, and perhaps how different the etiologies of depression might be.
> For me, depression tends to run in my family, regardless of past experiences. I have been on an antidepressant for years, because everytime I stop, the depression returns.
When you discontinued drug treatment, did you find in retrospect that the pill merely "masked" other "problems"?
> The loss of motivation, concentration, pleasure in life - everything you're feeling.
Me too.
> The last time, I almost lost my job until a caring colleague confronted me about trying a different medication. We all know that there is no such thing as a "happy pill", but without my antidepressant, I am not able to function.If you can't function psychosocially because of depression, it is very difficult to be happy. Maybe there are pills that can help you find happiness by removing the impediments imposed by depression. Given the degree of pain and debilitation, maybe there are miracle pills for those whom respond to them. This is the reality for some people. I know of at least one.
- Scott
Posted by michelle41a on October 15, 2010, at 9:59:16
In reply to Re: Advice needed, posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2010, at 22:13:55
> In a way it's feeling a pill can stop all your problems. No depression panic attacks then Gad. Hormones are allowing me to cut the benzo use as tired now no insomnia at all. That's transdermal applied to the skin. Phillipa ps I don't think of it as brain damage just that I should have delt with problems the meds covered up.
What type of hormone are you on? I was diagnosed with early menopause ( high fsh/lh, no period for a year now.. I am 41)I am currently on a low dose zoloft with klonopin for anxiety..
I think you mentioned some hormonal replacement alternatives to me before but I can't remember lol!
((HUGS))
Michelle
Posted by EERR11CC on October 15, 2010, at 10:36:22
In reply to Lou's request- » EERR11CC, posted by Lou Pilder on October 14, 2010, at 16:40:04
I did not direct the posting to Lou Pilder. I wrote it to Buckeye fan. I have no problem answering whatever questions they may have.
Posted by Phillipa on October 15, 2010, at 18:48:38
In reply to Re: Advice needed, posted by michelle41a on October 15, 2010, at 9:59:16
Michelle bioidentical estrogen,progesterone, testosterone all require prescription and blood testing first to see what dose to prescribe. I use the cream, some use spray, some troches and pellets inserted in skin,. Take a look at carolinahealthspan.com. Or Goggle Ronald L Brown in Charlotte, NC. And also a good explanation found on Stanley Pharmacy Charlotte also. Doesn't mean you may not still need meds but maybe less? Good Luck always available via babblemail. Phillipa
Posted by 49er on October 16, 2010, at 5:23:43
In reply to Advice needed, posted by Buckeye Fan on October 14, 2010, at 8:10:10
>
> Hi to all~
>
> I hav'nt posted in a while, but thought I would check in and kinda bounce what's going on with me off the group and maybe get some advice or direction.
>
> I have been OFF my long-term use of anti-depressants since January of this year.
> I have been OFF my long term use of Xanax since 2007.
>
> I am currently still ON 25mgs of Librium per day...and 100 mgs of Trazadone at bedtime.
>
> These remaining two PMeds are leftover prescriptions from 3 and 1/2 years ago, prescribed my a phycologist...when I was withdrawling from xanax and weekly alcohol use. My current MD admits he is not well versed in mental health issues...so I have contunued to ask him to refill these two Meds.
> Here is my situation currently.
> I am depressed beyond anything I have ever experienced. I am not whining....Im just trying to rationally state the facts so that I can recover.
> I have just lost my job....which is a blessing and a curse. I was so depressed and disorganized in my thinking, I was performing well below my best. Just getting out of bed and getting ready for work ( or the day) was and is a challenge. The anxiety of the 70 hour per week high-stress job was totally consuming me menatlly and physically.
> I feel isolated, alone, defeated and unable to handle life right now.
>
> There is the temptation to return to the numbing effects of an anti-depressant.
> I am aware that Trazadone is an anti-depressant, but it was prescribed for insominia...and is well known for its weak anti-depressant qualities. Besides..I feel it has diminished effects after 3 years of use anyways.
> The Librium has prevented any panic attacks, and I realize it is a benzo.
>
> Should I use this time of unemployment to ween off the Trazadone and Librium?
>
> I know in my heart that I do not want to get back on the anti-depressant rollercoaster ride again...but when I consider the alternative of this life draining depression...I am between a rock and a hard place.
>
> This current severe depression started about 3 months ago..and is gradually growing worse. I cannot overstate the way I am feeling...life has lost its joy...there is no comfort in anything. Routine daily tasks are a challenge...and I feel myself wanting to isolate from the world around me...which I KNOW is unhealthy and a symptom of depression.
>
> Thanks for listening
>Hi Buckeye Fan,
What was your tapering schedule as if you do it too quickly, that can cause rebound symptoms of depression?
Have you tried fish oil?
As someone who is also unemployed, I feel your pain.
49er
Posted by Buckeye Fan on October 16, 2010, at 9:32:07
In reply to Re: Advice needed » Buckeye Fan, posted by 49er on October 16, 2010, at 5:23:43
My taper was gradual ...and it has been 9 full months since I tapered.
I am also looking into something called "situational depression" ..http://www.ehow.com/about_5038611_symptoms-situational-depression.html
I recal from past depession episodes, that a change in my job, situation, relationships, etc... would both bring on, AND relieve the symptoms of depression. Not overnight...but eventually.
So now that I have had a week to think and examine this latest bout, I think I see a pattern that began 3 months ago when I accepted the high stress job. I remember it was about 3 weeks into it that I felt I had made a mistake..and began dreading being there.
I held onto it for 2 more months because I felt it was the right thing to do in this economy, but the cost to my mental health was substantial, so there was a mixed feeling of relief and regret when the position was dicontinued because of lack of business.Sorry to have gone off on a tanget there...!
What about fish oil?
Ive heard it is good for your heart health...
thanks'
BF
Posted by SLS on October 16, 2010, at 9:44:36
In reply to To 49er, posted by Buckeye Fan on October 16, 2010, at 9:32:07
> I think I see a pattern that began 3 months ago when I accepted the high stress job
Stress can very easily leave one more vulnerable to relapse. However, once you acknowledge that stress has set into motion pathological events in the brain, what will be your next move?
- Scott
Posted by 49er on October 16, 2010, at 10:19:44
In reply to To 49er, posted by Buckeye Fan on October 16, 2010, at 9:32:07
Hi BF,
> So now that I have had a week to think and examine this latest bout, I think I see a pattern that began 3 months ago when I accepted the high stress job. I remember it was about 3 weeks into it that I felt I had made a mistake..and began dreading being there.
> I held onto it for 2 more months because I felt it was the right thing to do in this economy, but the cost to my mental health was substantial, so there was a mixed feeling of relief and regret when the position was dicontinued because of lack of business.
>
> Sorry to have gone off on a tanget there...!Actually, you haven't as I have made those mistakes previously. Being unemployed, it is a good reminder although I am sorry you suffered.
>
> What about fish oil?
>
> Ive heard it is good for your heart health...
>
It definitely helps depression. I have read that high EPA to DHA ratios are best. But it may take some experimentation. If you go this route, give it up to 12 weeks to work.
Posted by morgan miller on October 16, 2010, at 11:05:34
In reply to Advice needed, posted by Buckeye Fan on October 14, 2010, at 8:10:10
I would try a good brand of SJW like Perika, Kira, or New Chapter's Serofin. I just switched from Prozac to Serofin and so far I'm o.k. I will expecting to feel the most improvement in a month or so.
Other things to try:
L Methylfolate-2.4 to 6.4 mg in the morning-Solgar and several other companies sell this-it upregulates production of monoamines and helps antidepressants work better-good addition to SJW
Acetyl L Carnitine-500 mg in the morning and 500 mg in the afternoon
DHEA-25 to 50 mg of micronized stuff in the morning
Resveratrol-Revgenetic micronized bulk powder is the best quality on the market IMO
Holy Basil-I would go with New Chapter
Magnesium-Glycinate or Taurinate
Turmeric/Curcumin-Longvida, Meriva, or BCM-95-curcumin stimulates serotonin and norepinephrine
Fish Oil-do it if you are not already!
Cordyceps-boosts energy, boosts testosterone-may indirectly boost mood
Piracetam-has been known to help with depression-it's mainly used as a nootropic to improve cognition
Adapton-a friend really likes this stuff and it has been discussed on the Alternative boardI'm giving you all these options because it sounds like you didn't have such a good experience with pharmaceuticals. Hopefully you still have a little extra cash to experiment with some of these things despite losing your job. I would go with one of the SJW brands first and add l methylfolate to it. Also, if you have a CostCo membership, get some of the Kirkland's fish oil, not the enteric coating one(fish oil is actually absorbed better in the stomach with all the acid).
Sorry your hurting so bad right now. Hope something starts to help soon!
Almost forgot to ask, how old are you? I'm assuming you are a male. What are your symptoms like? Do you have an equal amount of depression and anxiety, or is it mostly depression? If it is mostly depression, I would go with Perika first and stick with it for at least a month.
Morgan
This is the end of the thread.
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