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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by John45 on September 23, 2010, at 7:59:33
In reply to Re: Do not do it! » Babak, posted by Sigismund on October 2, 2008, at 17:10:43
Subutex is proving more and more to be HIGHLY effective in most people with long-standing depression/anxiety disorders. LOW doses (025-1 mg daily) seem to be all that is needed. I have a long history of anxiety/panic/depressive episodes that have not responded very well to SSRIs. I also take clonazepam (low dose). I have been on Subutex now for 3.5 years and every time I try to stop taking it I feel foul, unmotivated, negative and angry. Yes, there is withdrawal...yes, there may be some minor side effects...however I truly feel that many people who are life-long depressives are not getting this treatment which has the potential to normalize their lives. I understand the debate about using opiates for depression....addiction...etc. However, I have NO HISTORY of addiction and no interest in increasing my dose. Please feel free to comment and have a dialogue about this medication. If anyone is interested, I will post my "story."
All the best, John
Posted by sigismund on September 23, 2010, at 15:56:05
In reply to Re: Do not do it! » Sigismund, posted by John45 on September 23, 2010, at 7:59:33
>Buprenorphine's success rate is actually MUCH higher than SSRIs. The medical community just has not caught up with it.
That does not surprise me.
Posted by sigismund on September 23, 2010, at 15:59:51
In reply to Re: Do not do it! » Sigismund, posted by John45 on September 23, 2010, at 7:59:33
>Yes, there is withdrawal...yes, there may be some minor side effects...
I've never taken bupe, but people report feeling clear and motivated, at least more clear and motivated that when on methadone.
Is that your experience?
Posted by Phillipa on September 23, 2010, at 16:56:46
In reply to Re: Do not do it! » John45, posted by sigismund on September 23, 2010, at 15:59:51
Oh yes tell your story. Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on September 24, 2010, at 7:11:12
In reply to Re: Do not do it! » Sigismund, posted by John45 on September 23, 2010, at 7:59:33
>I understand the debate about using opiates for >depression....addiction...etc. However, I have >NO HISTORY of addiction and no interest in >increasing my dose. Please feel free to comment >and have a dialogue about this medication.
The question is not whether you feel worse after stopping the drug, it is: does the drug relief previous depressive symptoms in a sustainable manner?
Linkadge
Posted by bleauberry on September 24, 2010, at 17:32:22
In reply to Re: Do not do it! » Sigismund, posted by John45 on September 23, 2010, at 7:59:33
It is my belief that the reason various approaches of opioid meds do wonders for depression is because of this....
Toxins have a high affinity for opioid receptors. That disrupts not only our endorphins, but indirectly serotonin and dopamine as well. Toxins I am talking about include such things as aluminum (everywhere), cadmium(cigarettes), lead(everywhere), mercury(everywhere), and the poop, pee, and chemicals of infectious pathogens that we never suspected we had but we do (much more epidemic than anyone suspects).
Meds like vicadin, buprenorphine, or ldn, do something....they competitively displace whatever toxins are residing (clogging) the opioid receptors. That's why some people experience profound antidepressant effect from opioid meds, but not the euphoria or dysphoria experienced by a normal healthy person. The med is simply competitively displacing the toxin and allowing the receptor to do what it was designed to do.
Obviously this only applies to an unknown subset of depressive patients, since not everyone is suffering from an unknown toxic load. And not everyone will have a good outcome on the opioid journey.
If nothing else, I believe the use of these kinds of meds as quick challenge trials is a powerful diagnostic tool. It can help steer someone stuck in the failed psych office to someone who knows about infections and detox. The reaction to a challenge trial of opioid meds supplies a lot of useful detective information. Euprhoria, dysphoria, remission...whatever happens, it tells a story and gives direction in treatment.
Posted by Vincent_QC on October 2, 2010, at 8:56:53
In reply to Re: Do not do it!, posted by bleauberry on September 24, 2010, at 17:32:22
> Meds like vicadin, buprenorphine, or ldn, do something....they competitively displace whatever toxins are residing (clogging) the opioid receptors. That's why some people experience profound antidepressant effect from opioid meds, but not the euphoria or dysphoria experienced by a normal healthy person. The med is simply competitively displacing the toxin and allowing the receptor to do what it was designed to do.
>
> Obviously this only applies to an unknown subset of depressive patients, since not everyone is suffering from an unknown toxic load. And not everyone will have a good outcome on the opioid journey.
>
> If nothing else, I believe the use of these kinds of meds as quick challenge trials is a powerful diagnostic tool. It can help steer someone stuck in the failed psych office to someone who knows about infections and detox. The reaction to a challenge trial of opioid meds supplies a lot of useful detective information. Euprhoria, dysphoria, remission...whatever happens, it tells a story and gives direction in treatment.*************************************************
I'm having panic disorder, agoraphobia, social phobia and probably some OCD and GAD... Everytime I had a surgery and was in a remission state from the panic disorder, I had a return of the anxiety problems after surgery... and all the opioid meds always increase a lot my anxiety level and they don't decrease the pain level...
I had a surgery last november and was put on Dilaudid 2 mg every 4 hours and was not able to take it because of the intense panic attacks I was experiencing with that med, they change it for Oxycontin, who was worse than the Dilaudid... same reaction on the Demerol injection...same for the tramadol...
What does it mean??? I don't understand why peoples on babble say that opioid meds help them with the depression/pain and anxiety !!!
Posted by Phillipa on October 2, 2010, at 19:39:05
In reply to Re: Do not do it! » bleauberry, posted by Vincent_QC on October 2, 2010, at 8:56:53
They can be uplifting. After my surgeries l percocet I felt great. Phillipa
Posted by Brainbeard on October 3, 2010, at 14:10:05
In reply to Re: Do not do it! » bleauberry, posted by Vincent_QC on October 2, 2010, at 8:56:53
Dilaudid? You oughta have been in heaven!
This is the end of the thread.
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