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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on July 5, 2010, at 21:37:52
In reply to Re: what antidepressant works strong on dopamine? » rjlockhart04-08, posted by Conundrum on July 3, 2010, at 13:07:21
thank you all for posting. ... i've got to go throug and read...
I will ask my doctor about Robextine.
Posted by Bob on July 5, 2010, at 22:54:26
In reply to Re: mirapex, posted by Brainbeard on July 5, 2010, at 4:34:39
> Mirapex and all other synthetic dopamine agonists, except Servier's Trivastal (piribedil), can cause sudden sleep attacks, even while driving a car - you can check the case reports on Pubmed. I regard this as a serious drawback. Mirapex has also been associated with hypersexuality and obsessive gambling.
>
> The ergot-derived dopamine agonists, like cabergoline, all carry the risk of heart valve damage, except for lisuride.
>
> If you're looking for a truly, seriously dopaminergic med, you're looking for an amphetamine.
Why is Trivastal the only one not asociated with sleep attacks?
Posted by Brainbeard on July 6, 2010, at 5:55:25
In reply to Re: mirapex » Brainbeard, posted by Bob on July 5, 2010, at 22:54:26
> Why is Trivastal the only one not asociated with sleep attacks?
>
>I don't know!
Posted by Brainbeard on July 6, 2010, at 9:08:07
In reply to Re: Ritalin, Amineptine And Dextro-Amphetamine. » Brainbeard, posted by Conundrum on July 5, 2010, at 20:24:59
>> Could you explain what you mean by dextroamphetamine being cleaner than ritalin?
It's a subjective experience. Ritalin gives me a kind of brain fog. It feels rough to my brain. Dextro-amphetamine doesn't.
Dextro-amphetamine only touches serotonin in higher doses, not in usual therapeutic doses.
Amineptine is hard to describe. It can produce very mild euphoria. Motivation, a bit of focus. It also increased my anxiety.
It was removed from the market since it can be 'abused' in high doses.
Posted by former poster on July 9, 2010, at 15:28:25
In reply to Re: Ritalin, Amineptine And Dextro-Amphetamine., posted by Brainbeard on July 6, 2010, at 9:08:07
It's sad that a life saving med like this is banned because of "potential for abuse".
Posted by ed_uk2010 on July 10, 2010, at 1:21:21
In reply to Is Amineptine still available anywhere? » Brainbeard, posted by former poster on July 9, 2010, at 15:28:25
> It's sad that a life saving med like this is banned because of "potential for abuse".
Thing is, it wasn't just that. There were reports of severe liver damage and other toxicity which contributed to the withdrawal of amineptine.
Posted by sigismund on July 10, 2010, at 3:47:24
In reply to Re: Is Amineptine still available anywhere? » former poster, posted by ed_uk2010 on July 10, 2010, at 1:21:21
>There were reports of severe liver damage and other toxicity which contributed to the withdrawal of amineptine.
I feel so much safer knowing that there are people up there looking out for me, especially since the euphoric effect was so subtle.
Like David Bowie wrote
'Drink to the men who protect you and I
Drink drink drink your glass raise your glass high
It's not the side effects of the cocaine....'
Posted by jade k on July 10, 2010, at 15:34:57
In reply to Re: Ritalin, Amineptine And Dextro-Amphetamine., posted by Brainbeard on July 6, 2010, at 9:08:07
Awesome combo! Anyone live to tell about it?
But really, has anyone had good result for MDD with amineptine? Where would one get it?
Has amineptine been augmented with Dex? Or would that be too much?
I am dopamine deficient at the moment, wondering if I have any options other than MAOI's.
Wellbutrin and such don't cut it. Can't take SSRI's etc.
Well thanks for any help!
~Jade
Posted by Conundrum on July 10, 2010, at 16:52:40
In reply to Re: Ritalin, Amineptine And Dextro-Amphetamine. » Brainbeard, posted by jade k on July 10, 2010, at 15:34:57
Amineptine vs. Desipramine
Can anyone who has taken both of these drugs explain the effects they had for them? I'll take experiences with reboxetine and even nortriptyline even though its not as selective as desipramine.
Since norepinephrine and dopamine are similarly related and the norepinephrine transporter is involved in the metabolism of dopamine in certain regions of the brain, I would think there would be some overlap in subjective experiences of NRIs and amineptine.
Posted by jade k on July 10, 2010, at 23:04:00
In reply to Amineptine vs. Desipramine, posted by Conundrum on July 10, 2010, at 16:52:40
> Amineptine vs. Desipramine
>
> Can anyone who has taken both of these drugs explain the effects they had for them? I'll take experiences with reboxetine and even nortriptyline even though its not as selective as desipramine.
>
> Since norepinephrine and dopamine are similarly related and the norepinephrine transporter is involved in the metabolism of dopamine in certain regions of the brain, I would think there would be some overlap in subjective experiences of NRIs and amineptine.Hi Conundrum,
I was thinking the same thing :-)
Now that I'm here, I was wondering if anyone came up with a good combo between the 3 dopamine meds we were discussing?
Amineptine, Ritalin, and Dexedrine I believe.For example, anything that could be combined with Amineptine? Btw-Is this similar to Wellbutrin?
Sorry to bother you..again..its just your wealth of knowledge. Its staggering. And thanks for the help, as always.
~Jade
Posted by Conundrum on July 10, 2010, at 23:13:49
In reply to Re: Amineptine vs. Desipramine, posted by jade k on July 10, 2010, at 23:04:00
Even if you procured amineptine, it is ridiculously expensive, so unless you are rich its not realistic for everyday use. It would be nice if it were available. I'm aware of people using ritalin and amphetamines together, not at the same time but one early in the day and another one later on.
Amineptine is probably nothing like wellbutrin. I've never tried amineptine, but wellbutrin is a weird drug and definitely does more than block the reuptake of norepinephrine and dopamine. I can't tolerate it, but I can tolerate ritalin which is a NDRI.
Posted by jade k on July 10, 2010, at 23:31:14
In reply to Re: Amineptine vs. Desipramine » jade k, posted by Conundrum on July 10, 2010, at 23:13:49
Nope, not rich, just lookin for something to WORK!
Wellbutrin never did anything for me, but I know its supposed to be dopaminergic, is that the right word? SSRI's and sarotonin are not my friends. I've only done well on Parnate, and the stims. Well, geuss my pdoc will have to earn his keep this week. (he's good actually).~Jade
Posted by Brainbeard on July 12, 2010, at 5:10:28
In reply to Re: Amineptine vs. Desipramine » Conundrum, posted by jade k on July 10, 2010, at 23:31:14
One way to potentiate dopaminergic drugs is to combine them with selegiline, the MAO-B inhibitor (at doses of 10mg or below), BUT this is very dangerous when you take too much of the dopaminergic add-on. Potentiation is estimated to be five-fold at least at the Bluelight forum. I've combined 10mg of selegiline with only 5mg of Ritalin and the boost lasted all day, but it was too jittery for my taste.
Posted by SLS on July 12, 2010, at 5:43:39
In reply to Potentiating Dopaminergic Drugs, posted by Brainbeard on July 12, 2010, at 5:10:28
> One way to potentiate dopaminergic drugs is to combine them with selegiline, the MAO-B inhibitor (at doses of 10mg or below), BUT this is very dangerous when you take too much of the dopaminergic add-on. Potentiation is estimated to be five-fold at least at the Bluelight forum. I've combined 10mg of selegiline with only 5mg of Ritalin and the boost lasted all day, but it was too jittery for my taste.
Do you ever allow your CNS to establish a homeostatic equilibrium by adhering to a single treatment regime for an extended period of time? The one time that I achieved remission, I did not see optimal results until I had been treated for 3 months.
- Scott
Posted by Brainbeard on July 12, 2010, at 5:58:12
In reply to Re: Potentiating Dopaminergic Drugs » Brainbeard, posted by SLS on July 12, 2010, at 5:43:39
> Do you ever allow your CNS to establish a homeostatic equilibrium by adhering to a single treatment regime for an extended period of time?
Good question. Short answer: no. But perhaps my new p-doc can make a change here.
Posted by SLS on July 12, 2010, at 6:30:48
In reply to 'Give The Meds A CHANCE, For Pete's Sake!', posted by Brainbeard on July 12, 2010, at 5:58:12
> > Do you ever allow your CNS to establish a homeostatic equilibrium by adhering to a single treatment regime for an extended period of time?
> Good question. Short answer: no. But perhaps my new p-doc can make a change here.I hope you find something that works. Perhaps having confidence in your new doctor will help.
- Scott
Posted by Brainbeard on July 12, 2010, at 13:14:27
In reply to Re: 'Give The Meds A CHANCE, For Pete's Sake!' » Brainbeard, posted by SLS on July 12, 2010, at 6:30:48
> I hope you find something that works. Perhaps having confidence in your new doctor will help.
>
>
> - ScottThanks. I guess that could help indeed.
-The Beard
Posted by SLS on July 12, 2010, at 13:46:57
In reply to Re: 'Give The Meds A CHANCE, For Pete's Sake!', posted by Brainbeard on July 12, 2010, at 13:14:27
> > I hope you find something that works. Perhaps having confidence in your new doctor will help.
> Thanks. I guess that could help indeed.
With your level of knowledge and understanding, any doctor will certainly be challenged. Respect and confidence in them may not come easily for you. That's okay, though. I think the right doctor will earn your respect and confidence. It just might require an open mind to start with.
My doctor is interested in using magnetic treatments for me. Have you been presented with rTMS as an alternative? I have my doubts, but I will probably pursue it if I don't respond adequately to the addition of Nardil. I've never combined it with lithium before, so we'll see. I really should give it another 4 weeks to see what direction things go in.
Nardil 90mg
nortriptyline 150mg
Lamictal 100mg
Abilify 10mg
lithium 300mg
- Scott
Posted by Brainbeard on July 12, 2010, at 14:24:50
In reply to Re: 'Give The Meds A CHANCE, For Pete's Sake!', posted by SLS on July 12, 2010, at 13:46:57
> With your level of knowledge and understanding, any doctor will certainly be challenged. Respect and confidence in them may not come easily for you. That's okay, though. I think the right doctor will earn your respect and confidence. It just might require an open mind to start with.
Right in our first encounter, I mentioned the Luvox-clomipramine combination, and he immediately remarked that such a combo is a rational one because of Luvox' lowering of blood levels of desmethylclomipramine, the noradrenergic metabolite that probably doesn't contribute to the drug's anti-OCD potential. Just the fact that he knew about this interaction by head was enough for him to gain my trust in his being grounded in pharmacotherapy.
>
> My doctor is interested in using magnetic treatments for me. Have you been presented with rTMS as an alternative?No, I haven't.
> Nardil 90mg
> nortriptyline 150mg
> Lamictal 100mg
> Abilify 10mg
> lithium 300mgWow, you've got quite a cocktail. How is the Abilify working out?
Posted by SLS on July 12, 2010, at 15:38:44
In reply to Re: 'Give The Meds A CHANCE, For Pete's Sake!', posted by Brainbeard on July 12, 2010, at 14:24:50
> > Nardil 90mg
> > nortriptyline 150mg
> > Lamictal 100mg
> > Abilify 10mg
> > lithium 300mg
> Wow, you've got quite a cocktail. How is the Abilify working out?All I know is that when I try to discontinue Abilify, my depression gets worse. All of these drugs make a dent, but do not produce a true antidepressant effect. I receive a little more mental energy and avoid suicidal states - that's about it though. I do worse off drugs than on drugs. Right now, the Nardil is not doing nearly enough for me. I am very disappointed. It has only been a few weeks, though. Still, I am not encouraged by what I am currently feeling.
Abilify has produced significant weight-gain and possibly elevated my trigylcerides as has been measured in blood tests.
- Scott
Posted by Bob on July 12, 2010, at 16:50:07
In reply to Re: 'Give The Meds A CHANCE, For Pete's Sake!' » Brainbeard, posted by SLS on July 12, 2010, at 15:38:44
> > > Nardil 90mg
> > > nortriptyline 150mg
> > > Lamictal 100mg
> > > Abilify 10mg
> > > lithium 300mg
>
>
> Abilify has produced significant weight-gain and possibly elevated my trigylcerides as has been measured in blood tests.
>
>
> - Scott
Scott- I didn't realize that Abilify was associated with weight gain. I thought it was supposed to be relatively neutral, but looking back, I gained weight while on very small amounts of it. I think maybe all the AAPs may have health ramifications in the long run. My triglycerides and cholesterol are also elevated and have been for awhile now. I wouldn't hesitate to blame my exposure to psychiatric drugs, but of course no one will ever know for sure.
Posted by Bob on July 12, 2010, at 16:54:17
In reply to Re: 'Give The Meds A CHANCE, For Pete's Sake!' » Brainbeard, posted by SLS on July 12, 2010, at 15:38:44
> > > Nardil 90mg
> > > nortriptyline 150mg
> > > Lamictal 100mg
> > > Abilify 10mg
> > > lithium 300mg
>
> > Wow, you've got quite a cocktail. How is the Abilify working out?
>
> All I know is that when I try to discontinue Abilify, my depression gets worse.
>
>
> - Scott
I have found AAPs to be some of the diciest drug in terms of dosage changes. I have found them very difficult to taper off of.-Bob
Posted by Bob on July 12, 2010, at 16:59:07
In reply to Re: 'Give The Meds A CHANCE, For Pete's Sake!' » Brainbeard, posted by SLS on July 12, 2010, at 15:38:44
> > > Nardil 90mg
> > > nortriptyline 150mg
> > > Lamictal 100mg
> > > Abilify 10mg
> > > lithium 300mg
All of these drugs make a dent, but do not produce a true antidepressant effect. I receive a little more mental energy and avoid suicidal states - that's about it though. I do worse off drugs than on drugs. Right now, the Nardil is not doing nearly enough for me. I am very disappointed. It has only been a few weeks, though. Still, I am not encouraged by what I am currently feeling.>
>
> - Scott
Scott-That is a very good description of the kind of experience I've had with a few exceptions. I can say, at least years ago, that many of the drugs I took would make "a dent" in my depression but never really achieved a true antidepressant effect. In these later years though, it has been much, much less with the results. Ironically, I am closer to death off drugs than on. I don't seem to have a choice as I see it.
-Bob
Posted by Bob on July 13, 2010, at 1:21:17
In reply to Why Trivastal Is Not Associated With Sleep Attacks, posted by Brainbeard on July 6, 2010, at 5:55:25
> > Why is Trivastal the only one not asociated with sleep attacks?
> >
> >
>
> I don't know!
Well are you assuming that Trivastal doesn't lead to sleep attacks, or just saying the association didn't show up in pubmed?
Posted by Brainbeard on July 13, 2010, at 4:31:12
In reply to Re: Why Trivastal Is Not Associated With Sleep Attacks » Brainbeard, posted by Bob on July 13, 2010, at 1:21:17
> Well are you assuming that Trivastal doesn't lead to sleep attacks, or just saying the association didn't show up in pubmed?
>Both, actually.
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