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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 35. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by RocketMan on June 29, 2010, at 17:06:52
I've been doing quite well for 3 mths and I went to my GP last week for a skin infection (boil).
He prescribed me Minocycline 100mg daily. I've been taking it for 4 days and I noticed my mood slipping yesterday afternoon. Today I've felt quite depressed and anxious??? I called my GP and he said it is impossible for any antibiotic to make you depressed. I can't think of any other reason why my mood would crash so rapidly.
Any thoughts appreciated.Meds: Effexor, Remeron, Lamictal, Diazepam
Regards,
Rick
Posted by emme on June 29, 2010, at 17:13:03
In reply to Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!!, posted by RocketMan on June 29, 2010, at 17:06:52
> I've been doing quite well for 3 mths and I went to my GP last week for a skin infection (boil).
> He prescribed me Minocycline 100mg daily. I've been taking it for 4 days and I noticed my mood slipping yesterday afternoon. Today I've felt quite depressed and anxious??? I called my GP and he said it is impossible for any antibiotic to make you depressed. I can't think of any other reason why my mood would crash so rapidly.
> Any thoughts appreciated.
>
> Meds: Effexor, Remeron, Lamictal, Diazepam
>
> Regards,
> Rick
Your GP is wrong. I have become depressed on antibiotics, and my psychiatrist said it could certainly happen. I felt better when I was done with the course of the antibiotic. Hang in there.emme
Posted by Phillipa on June 29, 2010, at 19:45:46
In reply to Re: Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!! » RocketMan, posted by emme on June 29, 2010, at 17:13:03
I believe this is doxycycline which I myself just discontinued for chronic lymes. It seemed to elevate my mood but gave me headaches went off. Now levoquin made me very wacky and crazy. Yes they do indeed cause mood changes. Phillipa
Posted by RocketMan on June 29, 2010, at 22:34:17
In reply to Re: Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!!, posted by Phillipa on June 29, 2010, at 19:45:46
Thanks for your replies...make me feel better knowing that the antibiotic may be responsible :-)
Take care,
Rick
Posted by Bob on July 1, 2010, at 0:16:17
In reply to Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!!, posted by RocketMan on June 29, 2010, at 17:06:52
> I've been doing quite well for 3 mths and I went to my GP last week for a skin infection (boil).
> He prescribed me Minocycline 100mg daily. I've been taking it for 4 days and I noticed my mood slipping yesterday afternoon. Today I've felt quite depressed and anxious??? I called my GP and he said it is impossible for any antibiotic to make you depressed. I can't think of any other reason why my mood would crash so rapidly.
> Any thoughts appreciated.
>
> Meds: Effexor, Remeron, Lamictal, Diazepam
>
> Regards,
> Rick
In my experience, antibiotics can unquestionably make one depressed. I have had significant problems on some of them - quinolone types especially. I think GP docs have little or no knowledge of this. In fact, there are many, many meds out there which affect me psychologically and I've found almost no one out there to believe me, let alone be sympathetic.Bob
Posted by bleauberry on July 1, 2010, at 5:20:11
In reply to Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!!, posted by RocketMan on June 29, 2010, at 17:06:52
Well, let me just put a few things out there and anyone can put two and two together as they wish, or not.
A history of psychiatric treatment, especially the kind that is frustrating enough that someone ends up at psychobabble, is almost universal among people who have an unsuspected chronic infection.
Minocycline is able to penetrate cells to get bacteria that live within our own cells, hidden from lab tests and hidden from the immune system.
When bacteria are killed in mass, the body is overwhelmed with their toxins and body parts, clogging up receptors, contaminating serotonin and dopamine, acting as artificial contaminated endorphins at our opioid receptors (molecular structure of the toxins very similar to endorphins), and all kinds of bizarre biological things.
It is no surprise that those who suffer depression during an antibiotic treatment had depression as a pre-existing condition. Normal healthy people without a hidden infection can expect some nausea, decrease of appetite, diarrhea or constipation, and that's about it.
A Herxheimer reaction is the worsening of problems and symptoms when the bacteria die in mass. A common starting point for it is about the 3 to 4 day mark.
There are about a dozen bacteria I am aware of that are intracellular and cause a wide range of so-called diseases...depression, schizophrenia, MS, lupus, anxiety, etc. Lyme is just one of them.
In any case, Mino is wide spectrum and can target many of them due to its ability to be intracellular where most other antibiotics are not.
Depression is probably the most common universal complaint among those with unsuspected chronic infections. Garden variety psychiatric treatments obviously fall short because they are not coming close to addressing the real biological malfunctions that are happening.
Most lab tests are unreliable with false negatives. Tests for some of these infections don't even exist. The only true test is a blind challenge test of an antibiotic to see what happens. A herxheimer reaction is the strongest diagnostic tool there is.
Most people who have long histories of bizarre symptoms or just depression who went on to be cured did so by accidental discovery.
My own opinion is that the reaction to Mino is trying to tell you something. It is not a side effect.
Posted by jade k on July 1, 2010, at 10:47:33
In reply to Re: Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!!, posted by bleauberry on July 1, 2010, at 5:20:11
Interesting post. I just had the usual lab work-up for my pdoc (all was fine), wonder what he would have said had I requested a round of minocycline! Doc's are tight with the antibiotics these days, but if what you say is true, it seems worth a shot for patients really suffering from painful mental illness. Turning over every stone.
Thnx,
~Jade
Posted by Dan_MI on July 1, 2010, at 11:02:53
In reply to Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!!, posted by RocketMan on June 29, 2010, at 17:06:52
Pennicillin did it to me, and no one believed me.
> I've been doing quite well for 3 mths and I went to my GP last week for a skin infection (boil).
> He prescribed me Minocycline 100mg daily. I've been taking it for 4 days and I noticed my mood slipping yesterday afternoon. Today I've felt quite depressed and anxious??? I called my GP and he said it is impossible for any antibiotic to make you depressed. I can't think of any other reason why my mood would crash so rapidly.
> Any thoughts appreciated.
>
> Meds: Effexor, Remeron, Lamictal, Diazepam
>
> Regards,
> Rick
Posted by sensitive on July 1, 2010, at 13:36:08
In reply to Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!!, posted by RocketMan on June 29, 2010, at 17:06:52
I think your doctor should try it one time. I had same reaction everytime I take antibiotic. Ativan and cipro dont't mix.I know that for sure I looked it up. Good luck. There are a lot of us in this boat together. Now if we could only get the docs to believe us!
Posted by bleauberry on July 1, 2010, at 16:34:04
In reply to Re: Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!! » bleauberry, posted by jade k on July 1, 2010, at 10:47:33
Man oh man you said it. I scream that from the treetops and am usually ignored, not heard, or ridiculed. I don't make this stuff up. That's the thing. The proof is all over the place.
Specialists in the lyme circles are very familiar with all of this. Outside of that small group of experts, forget it, the rest of the community is in the dark. I am not at all saying these things are related to Lyme. Because there are a variety of infections that present themselves the same way and are treated the same. So it doesn't really matter what it is. The treatment is the same.
Lab tests. Forget it. We are years or decades away from having reliable tests. Many false negatives. A test cannot see what is hiding inside your cells, and neither can the immune system. For sure though, lots of damage is gong on in there.
A negative blood infection test for someone with symptoms consistent with a chronic viral or bacterial or fungal infection (think lyme-like, epstein bar, candida) is about the same thing as a judge sentencing an totally innocent prisoner to a life in solitary confinement. A test is only one piece of a puzzle, sometimes meaningful and sometimes not, but is by no means intended to be a definitive ruling. For example the CDC invented the common Lyme tests for survey purposes only, not for diagnostic purposes. Error is ok in surveys, because they are looking for regional trends, which will still be evident despite some error. But on an individual basis, that error spells a life turned upside down. The CDC in its own writing did not intend for the lyme tests to be diagnostic. The community has adopted it anyway. It is even more confusing when talking about the other possible suspects. Forget testing. Blind trials tell more than tests.
Posted by bleauberry on July 1, 2010, at 16:44:45
In reply to Re: Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!!, posted by sensitive on July 1, 2010, at 13:36:08
So in this thread I see a lot of people got a lot more depressed on antibiotics. I did too. Intensely. We seem to see it as a side effect, an adverse reaction, or something bad the drug was doing, a bad mix, etc. I propose all those are misguided. The depression got worse because we were killing the very things causing the depression. A herxheimer reaction is bad stuff. Sadly, it has to be endured to get to the peace and healing on the other side.
Those bad reactions were not bad. They were good. Really! Why? Because they were screaming at you what exactly was actually wrong in the first place. As long as the problems remain, the depression will too. Drugs can numb it or neutralize it for a time, but do nothing to stop the ongoing damage.
Only a few dozen infection experts in the country know the tricks, so it is not your doctor's fault that he doesn't. But the tricks are....much smaller doses, spaced farther apart, sometimes even days apart. Antibiotics taken that way will not be as deadly, but weaken things enough for the immune system to mount a successful attack it otherwise could not. And the herx is much tamer with much less depression.
The only true complete total remission of depression I ever experienced was after two weeks of hell on doxycylcine. Words can not describe it, either how deathly depressed I felt, and then how suddenly cured I was.
So anyway, I guess anyone can look at antibiotic related depression any way they want to. I'm just saying, there is another way to look at it that actually makes sense and is explainable.
Posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2010, at 19:47:05
In reply to Re: Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!!, posted by bleauberry on July 1, 2010, at 16:44:45
Blue got to send you a website and the masses they removed from my Son this week, groin, underarms and center of spine. Will babble Phillipa Gulf War
Posted by fayeroe on July 1, 2010, at 22:24:33
In reply to Re: Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!! » bleauberry, posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2010, at 19:47:05
> Blue got to send you a website and the masses they removed from my Son this week, groin, underarms and center of spine. Will babble Phillipa Gulf War
I hope you're sending pictures of the masses.
Posted by jade k on July 2, 2010, at 11:52:16
In reply to Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!!, posted by RocketMan on June 29, 2010, at 17:06:52
> I've been doing quite well for 3 mths and I went to my GP last week for a skin infection (boil).
> He prescribed me Minocycline 100mg daily. I've been taking it for 4 days and I noticed my mood slipping yesterday afternoon. Today I've felt quite depressed and anxious??? I called my GP and he said it is impossible for any antibiotic to make you depressed. I can't think of any other reason why my mood would crash so rapidly.
> Any thoughts appreciated.
>
> Meds: Effexor, Remeron, Lamictal, Diazepam
>
> Regards,
> RickHi Rick,
I haven't taken minocycline, but my mom and I both have had mood and/or flutype reactions to certain antibiotics. I can't explain it but Bleauberry's post seems worth considering.
"he [GP] said it is impossible for any antibiotic to make you depressed."
He sounds a little too sure of himself. As a GP, it could be he is not aware of certain drug interactions (imho).
~Jade
Posted by tom2228 on July 3, 2010, at 10:32:57
In reply to Re: Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!! » RocketMan, posted by emme on June 29, 2010, at 17:13:03
Damn I'm thankful for this thread, I thought I was weird but apparently not! All antibiotics drive me crazy, ESPECIALLY the quinolones they are the absolute worse.
Levaquin is the devil!! The first dose gave me sort of a panic attack, extremely un-calm and the like, gasping for air, oh god.
Had a single drop of Avelox (alone one of those quinolones) for my eye infection a couple weeks ago and almost instantly felt nuts like I had had too much Adderall or something. Threw it out
Even even amoxicillin made me go bonkers.
A couple weeks ago for my throat, nose, and eye infection I was on zithromax and became very depressed that lasted after it washed out...
antibiotics are very unstabilizing for me -- I'm bipolar and they seem to induce episodes for me that continue after the antibiotics are stopped.
i think the eye, nose, and throat infection is coming back but i'm avoiding antibiotics at all costs .. i'm always trying new meds and I just can't have that disruption this time. I want Parnate to work!!
So your doc is definitely wrong. IME GPs are very condescending to psychiatric complaints and say it's all in your treatment-needing head.
Posted by jade k on July 3, 2010, at 13:43:14
In reply to Re: Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!!, posted by tom2228 on July 3, 2010, at 10:32:57
> Damn I'm thankful for this thread, I thought I was weird but apparently not! All antibiotics drive me crazy, ESPECIALLY the quinolones they are the absolute worse.
>
> Levaquin is the devil!! The first dose gave me sort of a panic attack, extremely un-calm and the like, gasping for air, oh god.
>Yeah, Levoquin is the worst (although its a strong antibiotic and I'm sure has its uses)
~Jade
Posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2010, at 19:40:52
In reply to Re: Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!! » tom2228, posted by jade k on July 3, 2010, at 13:43:14
Levoquin made me seriously crazy. Phillipa
Posted by jade k on July 3, 2010, at 19:43:53
In reply to Re: Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!!, posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2010, at 19:40:52
> Levoquin made me seriously crazy. Phillipa
Seriously?!
~Jade
Posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2010, at 20:12:42
In reply to Re: Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!! » Phillipa, posted by jade k on July 3, 2010, at 19:43:53
According to my husband I don't even remember what happened but I think it was after one dose. Needless to say the med was switched. Phillipa
Posted by tom2228 on July 5, 2010, at 22:54:35
In reply to Re: Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!! » jade k, posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2010, at 20:12:42
Very glad it was changed good move. Made me seriously crazy too, parents threatened to send me back to the psych ward.. and that was a year before the levaquin.
I really don't know what it is about that levaquin. yea Jade it is damn strong but messed me up like no other. Plus I have permanent shoulder pain/damage from doing probably about TEN push-ups while on levaquin. and my doc didn't say a thing about the risk of permanent tendon damnage w/ fluoroquinolones. As a friendly warning please do not exercize on levaquin and its nasty relatives.
I strongly believe the quinolones are toxic drugs. Like I said one drop of Avelox EYE DROPS was enough to give me terrible psychiatric side-effects!
Unless I get like MRSA or something I'll never take them again
Posted by inanimate peanut on July 5, 2010, at 23:47:43
In reply to Re: Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!!, posted by tom2228 on July 5, 2010, at 22:54:35
so I think I have a UTI and the cranberry isn't working and I should probably go to the doc and get antibiotics. According to bleauberry, this could be the cure I've been looking for but then others say that it could make me more depressed even when the antibiotics are through so I don't know what to do-- any suggestions on what I should do? Are there specific ones I should try? It sounds like I should stay away from levoquin. I can't have sulfa. bleauberry? anyone else? specific antibiotics to try/not try?
Posted by Phillipa on July 6, 2010, at 0:05:55
In reply to Re: Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!!, posted by inanimate peanut on July 5, 2010, at 23:47:43
Peanut remember we're all different and different bugs get different antibiotics. I wouldn't worry about getting more depressed if you do have a urinary infection. Certain antibiotics are used for urinary tract infections usually for l0 days. I think Cipro might be one. Hey I took biaxin xl for over two years off and on three month at a time for lymes and felt great the whole time. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on July 6, 2010, at 0:08:37
In reply to Re: Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!!, posted by inanimate peanut on July 5, 2010, at 23:47:43
Peanut Bactrim is the one I meant sorry. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on July 6, 2010, at 0:15:37
In reply to Re: Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!!, posted by inanimate peanut on July 5, 2010, at 23:47:43
Here's a good site for you. Phillipa
Posted by jade k on July 6, 2010, at 15:27:45
In reply to Re: Started Antibiotic and mood crash - Help!! » inanimate peanut, posted by Phillipa on July 6, 2010, at 0:15:37
> Here's a good site for you. Phillipa
>
> http://adam.about.com/reports/000036_7.htmPeanut, looks like you could use every antibiotic known to man from that list!
Augmentin has been the least offensive to me, I think the 3-day Z-pack (zythro) is well tolerated too. Of course, everyone is different (except nix the levoquin imho)
Btw, someone needs to take one for the team and try out Bleauberry's theory...and you DO need an antibiotic...hehe
Good Luck,
~Jade
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