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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on June 8, 2010, at 11:44:26
Gabapentin (Neurontin) may aid in benzodiazepine withdrawal.
http://www.ispub.com/ostia/index.php?xmlFilePath=journals/ijpharm/vol4n2/gaba.xml
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on June 8, 2010, at 12:16:08
In reply to Gabapentin for benzodiazepine withdrawal., posted by SLS on June 8, 2010, at 11:44:26
I understand the study. Also understand that it's used in mono drug theraphy of benzos but what if the person doesn't abuse the benzos and just has Gad and the doc wants the patient on higher doses of benzos as in my case. So far it seems that benzos if taken properly have the least amount of long term side effects. I'd love you in all honesty to explain why I should stop the low dose after 40 years. Really I do as stuck with l.5 of xanax and 2.5mg of valium but the problem med is the 50mg of luvox which seems to mess with any attempt of cutting it down. No idea why? Seriously thanks. As I will see the doc after over two months. And she continues to want me to take higher doses? Thanks Phillipa ps benzos only keep me not even fully functional too many fears
Posted by SLS on June 8, 2010, at 12:53:41
In reply to Re: Gabapentin for benzodiazepine withdrawal. » SLS, posted by Phillipa on June 8, 2010, at 12:16:08
> I understand the study. Also understand that it's used in mono drug theraphy of benzos but what if the person doesn't abuse the benzos and just has Gad and the doc wants the patient on higher doses of benzos as in my case.
I don't understand what you are asking.
> So far it seems that benzos if taken properly have the least amount of long term side effects.
I know that there is some concern regarding memory impairment. However, I don't know to what degree it is irreversible.
> I'd love you in all honesty to explain why I should stop the low dose after 40 years.
In all honesty, I don't know that you should.
> Really I do as stuck with l.5 of xanax and 2.5mg of valium but the problem med is the 50mg of luvox which seems to mess with any attempt of cutting it down. No idea why?
Nope. No idea. I really don't know why you continue to take Luvox. Seriously. Why do you?
- Scott
Posted by manic666 on June 8, 2010, at 13:04:48
In reply to Re: Gabapentin for benzodiazepine withdrawal. » Phillipa, posted by SLS on June 8, 2010, at 12:53:41
i read your post on benzo withdrawl //come on man, she has only lasted near on a month// that could be an indian summer as they say//if it had been a year fair enough//i think the patient they talk about// with a history like that no chance
Posted by Phillipa on June 8, 2010, at 13:09:43
In reply to Re: Gabapentin for benzodiazepine withdrawal. » Phillipa, posted by SLS on June 8, 2010, at 12:53:41
Scott I don't want to take luvox when I cut down it wont allow me to sleep. When that doc took me off the 50 and upped the benzos so high didn't sleep for two weeks. What's a reasonable taper of 50mg so low it's almost a joke. I tried 25mg the other night and at 4am had to take other half. What am I doing wrong. I think my brain requires benzos. Does that make sense? Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on June 8, 2010, at 13:13:32
In reply to scott., posted by manic666 on June 8, 2010, at 13:04:48
Manic she seems to be a multi med addict or did I read it wrong? Phillipa
Posted by SLS on June 8, 2010, at 13:31:56
In reply to Re: Gabapentin for benzodiazepine withdrawal. » SLS, posted by Phillipa on June 8, 2010, at 13:09:43
It was not my intention to recommend that people stop taking benzodiazepines. They are useful tools. However, for those people who wish to discontinue taking them, I think it is worth looking at anticonvulsants like gabapentin or oxcarbazepine to help mitigate withdrawal phenomena.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on June 8, 2010, at 13:50:12
In reply to Re: Gabapentin for benzodiazepine withdrawal. » Phillipa, posted by SLS on June 8, 2010, at 13:31:56
Scott Thanks I know you wouldn't do that hope I didn't lead you to that conclusion. Sorry If I did. It's good to see you researching. Good sign. Phillipa
Posted by sigismund on June 8, 2010, at 16:24:11
In reply to Gabapentin for benzodiazepine withdrawal., posted by SLS on June 8, 2010, at 11:44:26
Benzos may be more use for gabapentin withdrawal than vice versa, though I can see how gabapentin could really help sleep in people withdrawing from them. The feeling from gabapentin is a bit weird (in a nice enough way) and I wonder how that feeling would sit on top of benzo lack.
Posted by SLS on June 8, 2010, at 16:54:27
In reply to Re: Gabapentin for benzodiazepine withdrawal. » SLS, posted by sigismund on June 8, 2010, at 16:24:11
> Benzos may be more use for gabapentin withdrawal than vice versa,
That is an interesting hypothesis. Hopefully, there will be more investigation into the utility of anticonvulsants in treating alcohol and benzodiazepine withdrawal. I am also interested to know whether or not anticonvulsants would be helpful with SRI withdrawal. I am thinking that there might be a kindling thing going on with withdrawal from these drugs.
- Scott
Posted by sigismund on June 8, 2010, at 16:58:23
In reply to Re: Gabapentin for benzodiazepine withdrawal. » sigismund, posted by SLS on June 8, 2010, at 16:54:27
I suppose the idea would be to keep the dose of gabapentin low enough to not be too weird. Then it might be useful.
Posted by sigismund on June 8, 2010, at 17:10:04
In reply to Gabapentin for benzodiazepine withdrawal., posted by SLS on June 8, 2010, at 11:44:26
When I took gabapentin I immediately thought it might have been useful for methadone withdrawal.
That's quite a case study.
Posted by manic666 on June 9, 2010, at 3:33:51
In reply to scott., posted by manic666 on June 8, 2010, at 13:04:48
i am always feared of wihdrawl plans//i do tend to look at them with fear//as the forced withdrawl of high benzo addiction an alchol//nearly caused my life through suicide attempt//thats why i am afraid of any withdrawl plan//you can understand my dilema//its not the info you give// its the total fear instilled by useless mental health docs//for leaveing me to a fate worse that death without a care in the world//only he will get over it in time //bbbastards they have a licience to kill people// sorry i no you have heard it before//but it wont go away//i put myself at maximum stress to try an sue the hospital many times//but you dont stand a chance// the lawyers close the door on you //you carnt take on the nhs your a mad person thats how the court would see it //an if you conplain to the hospital direct//i bet your name comes up in flashing red lights every time they hit your name on there computer///THIS PATIENT IS TROUBLE//
Posted by Laney on June 10, 2010, at 10:10:32
In reply to Re: scott., posted by manic666 on June 9, 2010, at 3:33:51
What exactly is it??
Just curious. I've heard of it before.
Laney
Posted by SLS on June 10, 2010, at 11:17:38
In reply to Scott: Kindling?, posted by Laney on June 10, 2010, at 10:10:32
Hi Laney
> What exactly is it??
>
> Just curious. I've heard of it before.
>
> LaneyIn epilepsy, kindling is a process by which the threshold for inducing a seizure becomes lower and lower with each successive seizure. In other words, it takes less and less to trigger a seizure. The kindling model has been proposed to explain why in bipolar disorder (and even unipolar depression), successive episodes become worse and worse, and are more easily triggered. Kindling also seems to explain the phenomenology of withdrawal from alcohol. I am thinking that it might also apply to withdrawal from benzodiazepines and SSRIs, as they might involve glutamatergic hyperexcitability.
- Scott
Posted by Laney on June 10, 2010, at 14:44:55
In reply to Re: Scott: Kindling? » Laney, posted by SLS on June 10, 2010, at 11:17:38
Thanks Scott. So how can it help us? I'm taking klonopin .5 once a day and it's supposed to also work as a anticonvulsant.
Thanks!
Laney
Posted by Laney on June 10, 2010, at 14:48:43
In reply to Re: Scott: Kindling?, posted by Laney on June 10, 2010, at 14:44:55
Scott, can you direct me to a website or link that explains kindling in regards to depression?
Thanks!
Laney
Posted by SLS on June 10, 2010, at 15:05:30
In reply to Re: Scott: Kindling?, posted by Laney on June 10, 2010, at 14:44:55
> Thanks Scott. So how can it help us?
One important insight to be gleaned from kindling theory is that repeated stressful, potentially depressogenic psychosocial experiences must be avoided to prevent the onset and perpetuation of mood illness. This includes both external life events and internal psychogenic stressors. Psychotherapy can help reduce these stressors.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on June 10, 2010, at 15:09:40
In reply to Re: Scott: Kindling?, posted by Laney on June 10, 2010, at 14:48:43
> Scott, can you direct me to a website or link that explains kindling in regards to depression?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Laney
You can perform a search on Google and look at what comes up:I found this:
http://www.allaboutdepression.com/cau_04.html
"For those who struggle with more chronic depression, the effects of stress may be more complicated. A stressful event such as a job loss or the death of a loved one is more likely to come before a first or second depressive episode. After that, further depressive episodes may develop spontaneously. It is not certain why stress may lead to depression in this way. However, researchers have theorized an explanation called the "kindling effect," or "kindling-sensitization hypothesis." This theory surmises that initial depressive episodes spark changes in the brain's chemistry and limbic system that make it more prone to developing future episodes of depression. This may be compared to the use of kindling wood to spark the flames of a campfire. Since early episodes of depression make a person more sensitive to developing depression, even small stressors can lead to later depressive episodes."
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on June 10, 2010, at 18:24:39
In reply to Re: Scott: Kindling? » Laney, posted by SLS on June 10, 2010, at 15:09:40
The kindling theory is just a theory. Another possible explaination as to why some people's mood disorders become more frequent / intense over time is the possibility of brain tissue loss / atrophy, or simply that negative brain connections (ie amygdala) become stronger, and positive ones become weaker.
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on June 10, 2010, at 19:27:55
In reply to Re: Scott: Kindling?, posted by linkadge on June 10, 2010, at 18:24:39
> The kindling theory is just a theory. Another possible explaination as to why some people's mood disorders become more frequent / intense over time is the possibility of brain tissue loss / atrophy, or simply that negative brain connections (ie amygdala) become stronger, and positive ones become weaker.
Kindling is a model of phenomenology, not of physiology. If it applies, the details of the mechanisms involved have yet to be detailed, but could explain the things you described.
- Scott
Posted by former poster on June 10, 2010, at 20:13:09
In reply to Re: Gabapentin for benzodiazepine withdrawal. » SLS, posted by sigismund on June 8, 2010, at 17:10:04
When I took Gabapentin I hallucinated for the first time in my life. Amazing how real visual hallucinations really are! I discontinued it. After taking enough benzo's to knock me out, I awoke normal in the morning again.
Posted by floatingbridge on June 11, 2010, at 0:29:29
In reply to Re: Scott: Kindling? » Laney, posted by SLS on June 10, 2010, at 15:09:40
Difficult to read this. The pattern overlays with my accelerated relapses and increasing sensitivity to stressors, even though in many, many ways I am more psychologically healthy due to therapy.
Posted by SLS on June 11, 2010, at 4:11:58
In reply to Re: Gabapentin for benzodiazepine withdrawal., posted by former poster on June 10, 2010, at 20:13:09
> When I took Gabapentin I hallucinated for the first time in my life. Amazing how real visual hallucinations really are! I discontinued it. After taking enough benzo's to knock me out, I awoke normal in the morning again.
Sounds horrific.
I don't react well to gabapentin. I don't hallucinate with it, but I am left in a profound brain fog that lasts for a few weeks after I stop taking it. I react similarly to pregabalin. I think the culprit might be blockade of the alpha2delta subunit of the L-type calcium channel.
- Scott
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