![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Walfredo on April 15, 2010, at 1:11:58
So, I've been on the AD rollercoaster for like 8 years. Been on most of the SSRI's/SNRI's (only Paxil helped until it pooped), Remeron, Wellbutrin, and even Nardil for a short time until the side effect's became unbearable.
Currently am taking 348 mg Aplenzin (which is just Wellbutrin XR) and that's ALL at the moment.
And while I'm still struggling everyday, I feel closer to "well" than I have in some time and I don't think it's because of the medication. I have quit nicotine, caffeine, alcohol, and cannabis in addition to correcting any damaging thought patterns I had.
Now and then I have 'glimpses' of clarity of thought, 'glimpses' of how I felt when I was young, but even in these times when I feel relatively good, my memory is ATROCIOUS. I can't remember what I was thinking about just two minutes, prior, you know? I lose my train of thought and can't even remember what I was thinking about. Definite terrible short term memory and long term memory isn't a whole lot better.
And I'm pretty sure my memory wasn't this horrendous before I started this "journey" on the AD's. Maybe it was and it was the least of my concerns, but I do have serious doubts that my poor memory is solely because of my "depression" (if it even is depression that I have...I have doubts about that too which is a whole 'nuther separate post).
So...basically what I'm wondering is....Is the poor memory a symptom of a previous biological problem? A symptom of "depression" or whatever disorder/illness/biological problem I have? Or is it possible that my memory has degenerated because of my taking all these psychotropic drugs over the years?
My doctor gives me the line that "there is no evidence that psychotropic drugs have any longterm adverse effects". It definitely seems like a rehearsed line or something. I think next time I am going to ask her "is there any evidence that they don't?"
I feel like I have read that SSRI's can cause "brain fog" and memory problems but that they are supposed to clear up once you cease taking the drug. But does anyone know or suspect that these drugs cause permanent memory impairment - even when you cease taking them?
Best wishes to you all,
Alex
Posted by manic666 on April 15, 2010, at 5:05:17
In reply to Do AD's permanently impair your memory?, posted by Walfredo on April 15, 2010, at 1:11:58
yes they do, but sometimes is a good think to forget????????????
Posted by Phillipa on April 15, 2010, at 12:25:13
In reply to Re: Do AD's permanently impair your memory?, posted by manic666 on April 15, 2010, at 5:05:17
I think your're probably doing what I do worrying about what you read. And it sticks in your mind so when you forget you immediately say oh the meds. I wonder how many who never took meds have the same thing happen and just brush it off? Phillipa
Posted by Walfredo on April 15, 2010, at 15:11:47
In reply to Re: Do AD's permanently impair your memory?, posted by Phillipa on April 15, 2010, at 12:25:13
worrying about what I read? Nah. Just constantly frustrated with my horrible memory....and wondering if it's something that I can possibly improve if I can successfully treat my other symptoms...or if it's something that can't get better b/c of chronic AD use.
Posted by morganator on April 15, 2010, at 16:01:28
In reply to Re: Do AD's permanently impair your memory?, posted by Walfredo on April 15, 2010, at 15:11:47
Your memory impairment may be a result of the damage done by depression.
I have to believe that if an antidepressant is working well for you, you will eventually find that your memory improves.
Things that may help your brain and memory are:
Exercise
Fish Oil
CPD Choline
Bacopa
Gotu Kola
Acetyl L Carnitine
Posted by morganator on April 15, 2010, at 16:03:36
In reply to Re: Do AD's permanently impair your memory?, posted by morganator on April 15, 2010, at 16:01:28
Also you might want to consider starting to eat blueberries regularly. The cheapest best blueberries out there are Wyman's Wild Frozen Blueberries. You can find them at Wholefoods and CostCo. CostCo is going to be the cheapest-4lb. bad for 8 bucks!
Posted by alchemy on April 15, 2010, at 19:11:00
In reply to Re: Do AD's permanently impair your memory?, posted by morganator on April 15, 2010, at 16:01:28
just a funny note... I had a trial of topamax and I when I was asked for my address, my mind went blank. I had to leave the store embarassed. It was very temporary.
Posted by Walfredo on April 20, 2010, at 2:27:13
In reply to Re: Do AD's permanently impair your memory?, posted by alchemy on April 15, 2010, at 19:11:00
bump for feedback...
thanks in advance...
Posted by manic666 on April 20, 2010, at 14:26:27
In reply to Re: Do AD's permanently impair your memory?, posted by Walfredo on April 20, 2010, at 2:27:13
does ad,s f*** with your memory///i forgot what to say???????????
Posted by Phillipa on April 20, 2010, at 19:09:02
In reply to Re: Do AD's permanently impair your memory?, posted by manic666 on April 20, 2010, at 14:26:27
Walfredo I know a lot of people in real life that had taken ad's and gotten off them as not needed anymore and no memory problems. One's a teacher and she would know for sure. She's fine. Phillipa
Posted by Matryoshka on April 25, 2010, at 15:58:25
In reply to Re: Do AD's permanently impair your memory?, posted by Walfredo on April 20, 2010, at 2:27:13
I've been on an enormous number of prescription chemicals since I was a preteen ... almost all the SSRIs for about 80% of that time; SNRIs; an MAOI (at present); chemotherapy for leukemia; benzos; stimulants; thyroid hormone...
Medicated early and often, but I have the memory of an elephant. My memory's even better now than it used to be.Some ADs can cause fuzzy-headedness, for sure, though anticonvulsants, antipsychotics, and benzos are usually worse for that, and can mess up recall for some people.
(Emsam, my current AD, hasn't done that at all - it's rather stimulating.)
But I don't see how they'd cause actual damage to memory or permanent impairment in any way, and I haven't seen any evidence for it. Serotonin and dopamine are essential to memory formation.(That leaves open the curious question of whether 5HT or D antagonism could impede memory, but I have to do more reading.)
On the other hand, depression IS known for certain to mess up your memory, both short-term and long-term.
My recollection of the periods when I was really in the hole are dim.Of course, other conditions can cause memory loss. Personally, the only thing that has caused poor short-term memory was my lapse into hypothyroidism last year. For several months there I thought I was going senile in my 20s - leaving my wallet at the grocery store, forgetting the time of weekly meetings, losing a lot of vocabulary recall, etc. (Among other symptoms, of course.) It has cleared up with the appropriate replacement therapy.
I think fish oil (a bit of DHA and around 1g EPA) is a fine idea for anyone with depression, memory issues or not.
Random thought: I recall that low blood levels of vitamin D have been associated with cognitive impairment, especially the older you get. Best to get some sun or get a blood test for levels before doing high-dose supplementation, though.
Posted by tonyz on April 29, 2010, at 18:59:47
In reply to Re: Do AD's permanently impair your memory?, posted by Matryoshka on April 25, 2010, at 15:58:25
Good idea to have thyroid checked and taking fish oil and vitamin D. Just be careful with the vitamin D supplementation too much can cause problems - serious problems.
Best to have it tested, ask your doc what he/she thinks and find out what the recommended daily maximum dose is - I think it is actually pretty low somewhere around 1000 IU. Docs may sametimes tell you take quite a bit more, but I'm thinking that should only be on a temporary basis.
Posted by desolationrower on April 30, 2010, at 10:27:50
In reply to Re: Do AD's permanently impair your memory?, posted by tonyz on April 29, 2010, at 18:59:47
> Good idea to have thyroid checked and taking fish oil and vitamin D. Just be careful with the vitamin D supplementation too much can cause problems - serious problems.
>
> Best to have it tested, ask your doc what he/she thinks and find out what the recommended daily maximum dose is - I think it is actually pretty low somewhere around 1000 IU. Docs may sametimes tell you take quite a bit more, but I'm thinking that should only be on a temporary basis.the amount you get from spring/summer noon sunlight is more than that within a few minutes. people were not being poisoned by vitaminD before the invention of officebuildings, cars, and indoor jobs.
someone somewhere who hasn'st read anything published in the last decade probably says its dangerous to take more than 1kIU/day, but you shouldn't listen to tehm. 45ng/ml is a good target
-d/r
Posted by tonyz on April 30, 2010, at 11:10:30
In reply to Re: Do AD's permanently impair your memory?, posted by desolationrower on April 30, 2010, at 10:27:50
Just to clarify you may want to refer to the following link and discuss with your doctor
Posted by CaffeinePoet on May 5, 2010, at 11:02:19
In reply to Do AD's permanently impair your memory?, posted by Walfredo on April 15, 2010, at 1:11:58
I've been on AD's off and on for 12 years, and am now 34.
Recently I quite Effexor after 7 years. My memory is not what it was.
I originally blamed meds, but you know what? Even hardcore drug addicts find some healing when they get off drugs. Quitting Effexor for 5 months did not help my symptoms as much as hoped. I saw very little improvement.
BUT I have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, known to wreak havoc with thyroid function AND cause some brain fog. If anything, the stress associated with NOT being on a med worsened the Thyroid disorder for me.
Just started Wellbutrin for associated symptoms.
Posted by tom2228 on May 9, 2010, at 22:38:24
In reply to Re: Do AD's permanently impair your memory?, posted by CaffeinePoet on May 5, 2010, at 11:02:19
Hey guys,
This is my first post here but I've been following along for quite some time. It seems to me many of you have run the gamut of meds and seem to know a lot about them... so I'm surprised nobody has suggested the Aplenzin as the culprit of your memory problems!
In my roaming the net I've found plenty of posts about memory problems caused by bupropion. Thinking back to when I was on Wellbutrin 2 years ago, I can certainly attest to this! Run a google search "wellbutrin memory loss" and you'll find a bunch of anecdotal evidence.
Good luck!
tom
Posted by chujoe on May 10, 2010, at 8:40:17
In reply to Re: Do AD's permanently impair your memory?, posted by CaffeinePoet on May 5, 2010, at 11:02:19
My memory seems better on AD meds. My anxiety / depression make my memory terrible, but when I take medication my memory improves. Long term, who knows? It seems fashionable these days to speculate about the terrible effects of "chemicals" on the brain, which is a soup of chemicals in any case. Maybe those "chemicals" allow the brain to repair itself, to create new neural pathways, to learn how to function more adaptively. My speculation is at least as plausible as the recent wave of anti-psych drug propaganda. I recommend this Salon article, not because of its content, which in my opinion is wrong, but because of the letters to the editor that follow: http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2010/04/27/interview_whitaker_anatomy_of_an_epidemic/index.html
(If this is the same article someone linked to below, sorry -- the letters are really worth reading.
Posted by DeMarco on May 10, 2010, at 20:10:15
In reply to Re: Do AD's permanently impair your memory?, posted by chujoe on May 10, 2010, at 8:40:17
My memory suffered on Welbutrin, especially, word recall. I ended up doing some research into it and remember coming across some research that documented diminished word recall as a side effect of Welbutrin. Sorry (and I don't mean to be snarky), I don't remember where I read it.
Depression affects different cognitive abilities depending on the subtype you're suffering from. I've had times when I've felt terrible with and without cognitive slowing.
My brief time on Serzone definitely caused permanent damage. I've never been as sharp as I was before taking it. However, I'm sure there's lotsa folks who took it without problems.
D.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 10, 2010, at 21:13:12
In reply to Re: Do AD's permanently impair your memory?, posted by DeMarco on May 10, 2010, at 20:10:15
> My memory suffered on Welbutrin, especially, word recall. I ended up doing some research into it and remember coming across some research that documented diminished word recall as a side effect of Welbutrin. Sorry (and I don't mean to be snarky), I don't remember where I read it.
>
> Depression affects different cognitive abilities depending on the subtype you're suffering from. I've had times when I've felt terrible with and without cognitive slowing.
>
> My brief time on Serzone definitely caused permanent damage. I've never been as sharp as I was before taking it. However, I'm sure there's lotsa folks who took it without problems.
>
> D.
>
DeMarco,
You wrote,[...depression affects different cognitive abilities...Serzone.. caused permanent damage..]
You have brought out some good points.
You see, I have a different understanding as to what happens when psychotropic drugs enter the brain, but you have brought up that there are different affects. This then brings up the question as to why could there be different affects. ( I am thinking that you could mean that different people could have different affects)
Now if differnt people have different affects, then what if those effects are selected?
You see, there is something that you have posted that I would like to respond here to but (redacted by respondent). If you could use the forum email with your email, I could then email you this.
Lou
>
Posted by DeMarco on May 13, 2010, at 20:23:31
In reply to Lou's response-slctsinuptkepnishr » DeMarco, posted by Lou Pilder on May 10, 2010, at 21:13:12
Lou,
I didn't realize I had Babblemail turned off. You should be able to reach me now. Post again to the thread if I'm mistaken.
DeMarco
Posted by Phillipa on May 13, 2010, at 21:19:00
In reply to Re: Lou's response-slctsinuptkepnishr, posted by DeMarco on May 13, 2010, at 20:23:31
DeMarco just to let you know your babblemail is turned on. Phillipa
Posted by Deneb on May 27, 2010, at 20:51:05
In reply to Re: Do AD's permanently impair your memory?, posted by tom2228 on May 9, 2010, at 22:38:24
Hello Tom!
Welcome to Psycho-Babble! Thanks for sharing your experiences! Did you end up stopping the Welbutrin because of the memory problems?
Deneb
Posted by tom2228 on June 10, 2010, at 13:27:57
In reply to Re: Do AD's permanently impair your memory? » tom2228, posted by Deneb on May 27, 2010, at 20:51:05
> Hello Tom!
>
> Welcome to Psycho-Babble! Thanks for sharing your experiences! Did you end up stopping the Welbutrin because of the memory problems?
>
> Denebthanks for the welcome ! nope, stopped because of BP issues. started off as hypomania... so much energy, all speedy, chatty, just wanted to f***...then things got awfully "mixed" up: anxiety, extreme irritability, psychomotor agitation... while being depressed (mostly depressed). didn't understand what was going on but I was taken off of it at the hospital.
didn't identify the BP aspect of it all so i tried it again for depression 2 months later.. had what I now understand to be a mixed epi again, but more manic than depressed this time. dysphoria alternating with euphoria, at most felt like a full-body orgasm, my imagination seemed like it smoked some crack.. but 5 mins later could be very dysphoric. crazy mood swings to say the least. and soon extreme irritability took over though, got rageful at times including towards my 7- and 8-year-old sisters.. not good!
I know this thread isn't about BP but I needed to express this given the chance. Not many people in life would understand.. except for you guys it seems
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.