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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on April 10, 2010, at 18:14:51
hey,
i feel adamant about trying Stablon for comorbid ADD and OCD, but just had some preliminary questions for those who've tried it:
1) did it have any beneficial effect on focus? i'm not looking for superhuman gains here, but right now i find it difficult to sit still through a TV show, so any assistance in that area would be welcome
2) did it help brain fog at all?
3)i'm a little concerned about the fact that it lowers cortisol. i have no idea what my current levels are like, but i do suffer from tiredness as a result of depression (and sleep loss). how did it affect your energy levels/sleep?
4) was it "hedonic" in anyway? again i am not looking for superhuman gains here, but it would be nice to feel some renewed interest in things i love (SSRI's offer very little benefit in this area).
5) did you augment it with anything (drugs or otherwise)?
cool, thanks for your time
Posted by Sigismund on April 10, 2010, at 18:40:46
In reply to questions for those who've tried Stablon, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 10, 2010, at 18:14:51
>4) was it "hedonic" in anyway?
I dunno about renewed interest (I had so little to renew.)
But yes, with a touch of weirdness and anxiety, it was.
It got me out of the house and even talking to people.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on April 10, 2010, at 19:08:52
In reply to Re: questions for those who've tried Stablon » g_g_g_unit, posted by Sigismund on April 10, 2010, at 18:40:46
> >4) was it "hedonic" in anyway?
>
> I dunno about renewed interest (I had so little to renew.)
>
> But yes, with a touch of weirdness and anxiety, it was.
>
> It got me out of the house and even talking to people.that doesn't sound too bad. again, i am not looking for drastic gains, but life has basically become a (dreary) routine (and i'm not even 25 yet).
how about cognition? anything positive?
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 11, 2010, at 7:13:02
In reply to Re: questions for those who've tried Stablon » g_g_g_unit, posted by Sigismund on April 10, 2010, at 18:40:46
> >4) was it "hedonic" in anyway?
>
> I dunno about renewed interest (I had so little to renew.)
>
> But yes, with a touch of weirdness and anxiety, it was.
>
> It got me out of the house and even talking to people.I think you find many things interesting, Sigi. I know you love to read.
Posted by Sigismund on April 11, 2010, at 15:37:44
In reply to Re: questions for those who've tried Stablon » Sigismund, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 11, 2010, at 7:13:02
>I think you find many things interesting, Sigi. I know you love to read.
Yes, it was all untrue, I just couldn't resist saying it.
Posted by Sigismund on April 11, 2010, at 15:42:28
In reply to Re: questions for those who've tried Stablon, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 10, 2010, at 19:08:52
>life has basically become a (dreary) routine (and i'm not even 25 yet).
Stablon might help with this....it made me feel chatty
>how about cognition? anything positive?
But I can't say I noticed any cognitive improvements from it.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on April 11, 2010, at 16:50:44
In reply to Re: questions for those who've tried Stablon » g_g_g_unit, posted by Sigismund on April 11, 2010, at 15:42:28
> >life has basically become a (dreary) routine (and i'm not even 25 yet).
>
> Stablon might help with this....it made me feel chatty
>oo ... chatty sounds good
>
>
> >how about cognition? anything positive?
>
> But I can't say I noticed any cognitive improvements from it.
>
>
well, i feel so irredeemably dumb these days that, at the very least, maybe it'll help nudge me back towards my baseline. you can always hope, right
Posted by SLS on April 11, 2010, at 18:31:37
In reply to Re: questions for those who've tried Stablon, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 11, 2010, at 16:50:44
> well, i feel so irredeemably dumb these days...
Depression leaves me feeling like I am functioning at a sub-human level.
- Scott
Posted by g_g_g_unit on April 11, 2010, at 19:12:11
In reply to Re: questions for those who've tried Stablon, posted by SLS on April 11, 2010, at 18:31:37
> > well, i feel so irredeemably dumb these days...
>
> Depression leaves me feeling like I am functioning at a sub-human level.
>
>
> - Scottthat's basically the sentiment i expressed to my therapist. unfortunately, so far drug therapy has yet to produce any drastic gains.
scott, i thought of you when i read the following study (and had been meaning to post it). i know you'd tried memantine at higher doses (20mg?), but was wondering if you gave lower doses a fair trial (the second case only uses 10mg a day).
"Memantine is an effective drug for the treatment of moderate-to-severe cognitive impairment related to Alzheimer Disease.5 We are reporting two cases of treatment-resistant bipolar disorder patients who showed substantial cognitive and mood symptom improvements.
Case 1 (Table 1): a 29-year-old female fashion stylist with bipolar disorder type II and bulimia nervosa, who used to read and had been able to write short stories, was suffering from severe depression over the last 2 years, having spent most of her time in bed. She was unable to read a newspaper or to write a single letter. Lamotrigine and lithium were useful for 2 years, but they lost their efficacy. Other mood stabilizers (divalproex, carbamazepine, oxcarbazepine) were tried with no success. She did not tolerate some atypical antipsychotics, such as aripiprazol, olanzapine, quetiapine, risperidone and ziprasidone, due to severe tachycardia or reported lack of effect of these medications. In August 2005 she received memantine as an add-on treatment up to 20 mg/day. During the first week following treatment with memantine, she could go to the computer and wrote a short story, spending most of the time out of bed. After one month's treatment, she showed a moderate improvement in psychomotricity and depressive mood, along with cognitive gains.
Case 2 (Table 2): a 32-year-old male judge (retired), with bipolar disorder type I, who had recently suffered from treatment-resistant mixed states, mostly with depressive symptoms. He reported mental incapacity, difficulty in concentrating and in performing abstract reasoning. He also reported hypomanic episodes characterized by compulsive shopping, binge eating and lack of insight. Previous unsuccessful treatments had included divalproex, oxcarbazepine, olanzapine, ziprasidone and haloperidol. The introduction of memantine up to 10 mg/day, in November 2005, promoted a rapid improvement in depressive symptoms, concentration and performance of tasks that were hitherto considered impossible, such as reading. Despite the maintenance of impulsivity, his insight into the compulsive shopping behavior and binge eating improved."
Posted by SLS on April 12, 2010, at 7:41:05
In reply to Re: questions for those who've tried Stablon » SLS, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 11, 2010, at 19:12:11
Wow. Thank you.
Interestingly, I felt an improvement in most, if not all, symptoms of my bipolar depression during the first week of treatment using memantine at 20mg. It didn't last, and I think it might have made me feel mildly worse thereafter. Perhaps there is a dosage window of efficacy for me. Maybe I'll try the 10mg you suggest. I tried going up to 40mg for a few days. However, once I started feeling drunk, I reduced the dosage back to 20mg.
- Scott
--------------------------------------
> > > well, i feel so irredeemably dumb these days...
> >
> > Depression leaves me feeling like I am functioning at a sub-human level.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> that's basically the sentiment i expressed to my therapist. unfortunately, so far drug therapy has yet to produce any drastic gains.
>
> scott, i thought of you when i read the following study (and had been meaning to post it). i know you'd tried memantine at higher doses (20mg?), but was wondering if you gave lower doses a fair trial (the second case only uses 10mg a day).
>
> "Memantine is an effective drug for the treatment of moderate-to-severe cognitive impairment related to Alzheimer Disease.5 We are reporting two cases of treatment-resistant bipolar disorder patients who showed substantial cognitive and mood symptom improvements.
>
> Case 1 (Table 1): a 29-year-old female fashion stylist with bipolar disorder type II and bulimia nervosa, who used to read and had been able to write short stories, was suffering from severe depression over the last 2 years, having spent most of her time in bed. She was unable to read a newspaper or to write a single letter. Lamotrigine and lithium were useful for 2 years, but they lost their efficacy. Other mood stabilizers (divalproex, carbamazepine, oxcarbazepine) were tried with no success. She did not tolerate some atypical antipsychotics, such as aripiprazol, olanzapine, quetiapine, risperidone and ziprasidone, due to severe tachycardia or reported lack of effect of these medications. In August 2005 she received memantine as an add-on treatment up to 20 mg/day. During the first week following treatment with memantine, she could go to the computer and wrote a short story, spending most of the time out of bed. After one month's treatment, she showed a moderate improvement in psychomotricity and depressive mood, along with cognitive gains.
>
> Case 2 (Table 2): a 32-year-old male judge (retired), with bipolar disorder type I, who had recently suffered from treatment-resistant mixed states, mostly with depressive symptoms. He reported mental incapacity, difficulty in concentrating and in performing abstract reasoning. He also reported hypomanic episodes characterized by compulsive shopping, binge eating and lack of insight. Previous unsuccessful treatments had included divalproex, oxcarbazepine, olanzapine, ziprasidone and haloperidol. The introduction of memantine up to 10 mg/day, in November 2005, promoted a rapid improvement in depressive symptoms, concentration and performance of tasks that were hitherto considered impossible, such as reading. Despite the maintenance of impulsivity, his insight into the compulsive shopping behavior and binge eating improved."
Posted by g_g_g_unit on April 12, 2010, at 18:04:21
In reply to Re: questions for those who've tried Stablon, posted by SLS on April 12, 2010, at 7:41:05
> Wow. Thank you.
>
> Interestingly, I felt an improvement in most, if not all, symptoms of my bipolar depression during the first week of treatment using memantine at 20mg. It didn't last, and I think it might have made me feel mildly worse thereafter. Perhaps there is a dosage window of efficacy for me. Maybe I'll try the 10mg you suggest. I tried going up to 40mg for a few days. However, once I started feeling drunk, I reduced the dosage back to 20mg.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>i hope it works out for you. i definitely believe there's a window of efficacy; at 10mg, i felt, i guess, normal? for the first time in my life, to the point where i experienced a heretofore unknown mental clarity and certainty in my decisions (i suffer from ADD and OCD and have an appalling lack of executive function).
unfortunately, following alzheimers protocol, i pushed the dose to 20mg and began to feel significantly worse. i'm also thinking of revisiting the 10mg dose ... i'm just trying to work out what a suitable augmenting agent might be
Posted by Brainbeard on April 13, 2010, at 15:00:46
In reply to questions for those who've tried Stablon, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 10, 2010, at 18:14:51
> 1) did it have any beneficial effect on focus?
It may have helped a little. Not much, I'm afraid. It could stir up interest in me, which can be good if the interest is directed to the thing you wanna focus on.
> 2) did it help brain fog at all?Possibly. It didn't lift my usual brain fog, I think. But neither did it cloud my cognition.
> 3) how did it affect your energy levels/sleep?
If anything, it gave me more energy. It could make me a little drowsy in the morning after taking it though. It's more energizing if I take more than one pill.
> 4) was it "hedonic" in anyway?
Yes, I believe it was. Mildly. More so on higher doses.
> 5) did you augment it with anything (drugs or otherwise)?
Nope. Yeah, coffee.
> cool, thanks for your time
Most welcome.
This is the end of the thread.
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