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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by floatingbridge on March 19, 2010, at 23:22:15
My back has seriously been out--worst in years. (I see a pysiatrist in a month.) So I've resorted to an old bottle of Vicodin 5mg/325mg. I don't know if that's a high dose or what. After a few weeks of pain that keeps me from sleeping, I've overcome my puritanical ways and have been taking 2 per day. Not only is the pain a shadow of itself, but I take way less stimulant. My mood is really pretty good. I don't feel high, impaired, uncoordinated, or fuzzy.
I'm hoping, of course, that I'm not writing you all from rehab next month.
So what gives? Energy from Vicodin?
Posted by Phillipa on March 20, 2010, at 0:26:51
In reply to curious: vicodin potentiates stimulant?, posted by floatingbridge on March 19, 2010, at 23:22:15
I'm an opiod responder and feel good when take just one pain pill a day hence the pdoc would like me on tramadol but can't script it she wants me to get it from a pain clinic but they don't prescibe either. So the infection control guy wants me to try soma. So you could also be an opiod responder. You don't have to get addicted although it's easy to just don't take more my back is also a serious issue hence the MMRI I just had. Some need pain meds. Example my neighbor has had two shoulder replacements and bad back and has dilaudid patch and vicodin for breakthrough pain. Some people legitimately need opiods. hey if you end up in rehab how bout we become roommates? Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on March 20, 2010, at 0:41:46
In reply to Re: curious: vicodin potentiates stimulant? » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on March 20, 2010, at 0:26:51
Hi Phillipa,
Sure, we can be roommates! Though I do hope rehab isn't where we land.
I'm not familiar with the pain treatments you mention, though I recall a recent thread on tramadol. My pdoc says I'm an opoid responder. When I did Google tramadol I found mostly sites on rehab. That was enough to discourage further research.
Soma? You must be on pain. I assume that's a pain med. I'm sorry, Phillipa.
fb
Posted by kirbyw on March 20, 2010, at 1:15:58
In reply to curious: vicodin potentiates stimulant?, posted by floatingbridge on March 19, 2010, at 23:22:15
http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl?post=/babble/20100122/msgs/935722.html
The thread above was devoted to the issue of Vicodin's effect on mood disorders.
Rick
Posted by floatingbridge on March 20, 2010, at 2:25:05
In reply to Re: curious: vicodin potentiates stimulant?, posted by kirbyw on March 20, 2010, at 1:15:58
Hi Rick,
Thanks for the link--rereading it was interesting--I was part of the discussion.
I'm still spooked by the whole thing.
What I still don't understand is why more energy? I'm putting into action stuff I usually know would be good for me but avoid. Proactive I suppose. What I don't like is it is a pill--but then, I take others and will for life. Those aren't creating any real or long term changes in my brain. I have little confidence that pristiq is benefiting my neurochemestry in any permanent way. Then, of course, I am very uneasy about using 'controlled' substances at all. And that's the majority of my treatment!
Oh, you've all heard me complain about this before....
So, the opiate removes the depression, I
feel such relief that I am able to function like a 'normal' person-- so my fatigue really is psychosomatic? I feel so angry right now I could cry.
Posted by floatingbridge on March 20, 2010, at 2:30:50
In reply to Re: curious: vicodin potentiates stimulant?, posted by kirbyw on March 20, 2010, at 1:15:58
Hi Rick, I didn't mean to direct that at you--I'm sorry. My questions were more rhetorical thinking out loud.
Obviously this is a troubling topic for me. Peace to you in Costa Rica,fb
Posted by Justherself54 on March 20, 2010, at 9:26:35
In reply to curious: vicodin potentiates stimulant?, posted by floatingbridge on March 19, 2010, at 23:22:15
I have had the same experience when I was on morphine after surgery. I felt like my old self before the refractory phase of bipolar decided never to leave.
I know pain robs me of energy and feeds my depression. And my depression feeds my pain. I have been trying to tell GP's this for a long time. The only thing I have access to right now are T3's, given to me by a friend. They just take a small edge off the pain. I finally bullied a doctor to refer me to a pain clinic. She did so reluctantly, saying they'll just give you strong drugs and get you addicted. I said I don't care, just make the referral.
She said you have to fight through the pain. I have fibromyalgia and degenerative bone disease in my sacrum. The pain feels like constant low back pain labour (any women here who have had babies and back labour will know what that feels like). I had no problem fighting through that pain cause I had a baby at the end and the pain went away. It's gotten so bad that when I drive to visit my grand kids (two hour drive), someone has to help me get out of the car, as I have just spent two hours driving feeling like the end of a hot poker has replaced my tailbone. You can imagine how much energy I have after arriving. None!
I'm now going back to my old GP where I used to live. He's been my doctor for years. If he can't get me into a specialist quickly to even try a cortisone shot or something in my back I want something stronger for the pain.
My pdoc has said that opiods were used for depression way back in time, and worked well, until they fell out of favour due to their addictive nature. I feel there is still a place for them for people like me, who suffer refractory depression and chronic pain. Do I care if I get addicted, yes, but not as much as I care about getting relief from pain.
You always hear about benefit vs. risk with medication. Right now I'm in the risk taking category. All I'm asking for right now is even one day per week to be pain free and sleep undisturbed for 8 hours.
Sorry for the rant. I'm on about year 2 of getting 4 to 6 hours of broken sleep from pain.
I so hope you get some relief from your pain, FB. As to whether or not the opiod is giving you energy, I'd be inclined to say the pain relief is what's giving you energy.
I'd better stop ranting! Sorry FB..didn't mean to hijack your thread!
Posted by bulldog2 on March 20, 2010, at 17:48:43
In reply to curious: vicodin potentiates stimulant?, posted by floatingbridge on March 19, 2010, at 23:22:15
> My back has seriously been out--worst in years. (I see a pysiatrist in a month.) So I've resorted to an old bottle of Vicodin 5mg/325mg. I don't know if that's a high dose or what. After a few weeks of pain that keeps me from sleeping, I've overcome my puritanical ways and have been taking 2 per day. Not only is the pain a shadow of itself, but I take way less stimulant. My mood is really pretty good. I don't feel high, impaired, uncoordinated, or fuzzy.
>
> I'm hoping, of course, that I'm not writing you all from rehab next month.
>
> So what gives? Energy from Vicodin?Sounds like synergy to me. Your situation sounds somewhat similar to mine. This winter all the snow shoveling aggravated my sciatica. Now at the time I was already on parnate 30 mg. My pain specialist came up with an idea. He felt that percocet would not only help with the pain but would benefit mood. He had run blood and urine studies that showed a shortage of endorphins.
I feel like a different person. The two meds work better when used together than each one used apart.The parnate pulls me out of depression but not much else. The percocet turns the pictures in my mind to color hd three dimension from a dull black and white.People who are endorphin deficient need to tinker with dopamine and endorphins. An maoi like parnate that enhances neurotransmitters provides the perfect background for for a splash of endorphin and dopamine.
Posted by Phillipa on March 20, 2010, at 20:27:56
In reply to Re: curious: vicodin potentiates stimulant?, posted by Justherself54 on March 20, 2010, at 9:26:35
Sounds like my pdoc but the infection control guy said got to treat the pain and anxiety and guess what opiods do that. I'm with you. Want to share rooms with me and Floating Bridge? Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on March 21, 2010, at 3:01:57
In reply to Re: curious: vicodin potentiates stimulant?, posted by bulldog2 on March 20, 2010, at 17:48:43
BD,
I didn't know there were blood and urine (or any) tests for endorphins. That is very interesting. Could you tell me how this doctor laid out your treatment plan? Does he expect you to stay on a maintenance dose of percocet without the need to raise it?
And maybe I could do research on LDN as another approach.
Sounds like you're feeling better--I hope so. Thanks for posting. :-)
Posted by bulldog2 on March 21, 2010, at 10:35:10
In reply to Re: curious: vicodin potentiates stimulant? » bulldog2, posted by floatingbridge on March 21, 2010, at 3:01:57
> BD,
>
> I didn't know there were blood and urine (or any) tests for endorphins. That is very interesting. Could you tell me how this doctor laid out your treatment plan? Does he expect you to stay on a maintenance dose of percocet without the need to raise it?
>
> And maybe I could do research on LDN as another approach.
>
> Sounds like you're feeling better--I hope so. Thanks for posting. :-)
I can't wait to jump out of bed in the morning. The colors and sounds of life are incredible and invoke deep emotions within my heart.
The doctors approach is to give me the endorphin tests once a month. The goal is to keep my endorphins within a certain range. Medication will be adjusted based on test results.
We spoke of the ldn test and the doctor became very distraught. He said didn't doctors who use this test realize certain brains can no longer or maybe never had the capacity to produce enough endorphins possibly the reason some children suffer form depression.He than heaved a deep sigh and said these doctors have the medicines to relieve our depressions or at least those who are endorphin deficient. His hands trembling he asked why do these doctors continue to use ineffective medicines that at best only partially work.
This man is very passionate about his work. He said he has the means of bringing happiness to the lives of those who are suffering and it is his mission to do so.
He truely is a dedicated doctor and a humanitarian.
Do yourself a favor and find an opiate based psychopharmacologist. Good luck!
Posted by floatingbridge on March 21, 2010, at 13:13:32
In reply to Re: curious: vicodin potentiates stimulant?, posted by bulldog2 on March 21, 2010, at 10:35:10
Bulldog,
Your story is really something--thank you so much for answering my questions. You are incredibly lucky to have found such a doc. This sounds like a recent development. I wish you continued success!
Posted by floatingbridge on March 21, 2010, at 13:56:15
In reply to Re: curious: vicodin potentiates stimulant?, posted by Justherself54 on March 20, 2010, at 9:26:35
Hi! Thanks for your post! No hijack at all. Besides, you read my melt-down.
I didn't realize your pain level was so high, though I do remember the fibromyalgia--only recently recognized as 'real'. I hope you get to a good pain specialist very soon. People who talk about fighting through pain by and large have not had personal experiences with
chronic pain. Besides, we are not all Zen masters--nor do our lives support the concentration mind/body practices could
take. Like having grandkids (I have a
young son), driving here and there, etc. (Certainly not to say the cognitive pieces are best neglected.)Back pain is a complication for me.
Depression is soooooo long standing, as is fatigue--I suppose one could use cfs--though I am not eager to acquired another label. So this back pain,
accompanied by some joint pain is
alarming. I am 50. Given my history, I imagine my situation is not going to just dissapear-- hence, the next 'chapter'.The pain experienced over the past few weeks was truly disabling. I have new sympathy for pain conditions--and I'm
sorry to hear that you've lived with this for sometime. I'm glad you posted, and your 'rant' is valuable to hear--thanks.Yesterday I was comfortable on one Vicodin. Today, I'll see if .5 will do. The worst of the episode is past(!).
I read on my Vicodin insert that dealing with pain. Before it escalates is most effective--and that meds won't work well once the pain takes hold. So, if I had broken out the opoid a bit earlier, I might have saved myself from the experience of days of pain.
I see a pysiatrist later in April. Hopefully we'll come to some effective ways to deal w/ whatever is going on. I wish the same for you.
Thanks.
Posted by Phillipa on March 21, 2010, at 20:02:19
In reply to Re: curious: vicodin potentiates stimulant? » Justherself54, posted by floatingbridge on March 21, 2010, at 13:56:15
FB what is wrong with your back to cause the pain? When did it start? Love Phillipa
Posted by Sigismund on March 27, 2010, at 22:52:45
In reply to Re: curious: vicodin potentiates stimulant?, posted by bulldog2 on March 21, 2010, at 10:35:10
>His hands trembling he asked why do these doctors continue to use ineffective medicines that at best only partially work.
God bless him
This is the end of the thread.
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