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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by West on February 5, 2010, at 17:14:18
In reply to Re: Oregon University's new antidepressant » West, posted by floatingbridge on February 5, 2010, at 17:04:10
Tried it for a while. Didn't like it really though.
Posted by linkadge on February 5, 2010, at 17:19:29
In reply to Oregon University's new antidepressant, posted by West on February 5, 2010, at 16:24:01
>It may have efficacy similar to some important >drugs being used now, but with fewer side >effects.
Well then, it won't work, but perhaps it won't have as many side efects.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on February 5, 2010, at 17:36:34
In reply to correct link, posted by West on February 5, 2010, at 16:24:41
The article doesn't make sense. It reads:
Based on our results so far, this promises to be one of the most effective antidepressants yet developed, said James White, a professor emeritus of chemistry at OSU.
It may have efficacy similar to some important drugs being used now, but with fewer side effects.
So what is it? Efficacy similar to current antidepressants or more effective than current antidepressants?Linkadge
Posted by bulldog2 on February 5, 2010, at 17:51:55
In reply to Re: Oregon University's new antidepressant » West, posted by floatingbridge on February 5, 2010, at 17:04:10
> Is cymbalta effective for some here? Like effexor? I've heard it referenced as a maintenance drug after TMs.
>
> Didn't mention any dopamine action.
>
> Thanks for the link.
>
>Dopamine is not allowed as it makes you feel to good.
Posted by JayBTV2 on February 5, 2010, at 18:50:34
In reply to Re: Oregon University's new antidepressant, posted by bulldog2 on February 5, 2010, at 17:51:55
Also doesn't mention sexual side effects which I highly doubt it's free of....
Posted by floatingbridge on February 5, 2010, at 19:07:17
In reply to Re: Oregon University's new antidepressant, posted by bulldog2 on February 5, 2010, at 17:51:55
Crazy, huh? Even the Stanford Guy said dopamine has not been addressed--and clearly there is a percentage of the population for which that is the determining key.
Could it also be that the actions of dopamine are not as well understood despite active research, that seritonin and ne were easier to (begin to) utilize?
Dopamine seems problematic because it is so powerful--too much, psychosis, impluse control problems (and I'm referring to self-destructive decision-making). Too little is implicated in more illnesses than parkensons that I can name.
Just some thoughts from a dopamine responder....
fb
Posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2010, at 19:17:31
In reply to Re: Oregon University's new antidepressant » bulldog2, posted by floatingbridge on February 5, 2010, at 19:07:17
cymbalta at 60mg is good for pain. Didn't help anxiety or depression? That's just me. Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on February 5, 2010, at 19:52:19
In reply to Re: Oregon University's new antidepressant, posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2010, at 19:17:31
> cymbalta at 60mg is good for pain. Didn't help anxiety or depression? That's just me. Phillipa
Phillipa, you've tried it? Does it help with pain? That's the ne, right? I suppose the trick partly in what they call balance. Kaylabear posted a study of ne induced pain response in fibromyalgia patients....
Guess that response is atypical?
(I'm thinking of my strattera headaches/spine pain.) No such problem on
Wellbutrin-- also no help....
Posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2010, at 21:17:25
In reply to Re: Oregon University's new antidepressant, posted by floatingbridge on February 5, 2010, at 19:52:19
Fb it did as didn't know I had back pain til went off the pain so yes it helped with pain in me anyway. Love Phillipa
Posted by topcatclr on February 5, 2010, at 23:11:38
In reply to Re: Oregon University's new antidepressant, posted by JayBTV2 on February 5, 2010, at 18:50:34
Cymbalta is the thing that separates me from panic and depression. Excellent drug!
Posted by floatingbridge on February 6, 2010, at 1:04:16
In reply to Re: Oregon University's new antidepressant, posted by floatingbridge on February 5, 2010, at 19:52:19
Wow. That's great! Finding what works is awesome. I'm glad.
Hmmmm. I'm wondering why it hasn't been suggested for me instead of pristiq....
Posted by conundrum on February 6, 2010, at 6:50:40
In reply to correct link, posted by West on February 5, 2010, at 16:24:41
I'm curious if it increases norepinephrine how it decreases constipation. Maybe it blocks some other adrenergic receptors as well. Unfortunately Savella isn't FDA approved for the treatement of depression in the U.S. It is only approved for fibro/cfs. I guess U of O want their creation approved for depression.
Posted by conundrum on February 6, 2010, at 6:53:12
In reply to Re: Oregon University's new antidepressant » West, posted by floatingbridge on February 5, 2010, at 17:04:10
A triple reuptake inhibitor would be nice I think. Wellbutrin isn't very powerful and just doesn't work for everyone. The nice thing about Norepinephrine reuptake is that the norepinephrine transporter recycles dopamine in the Prefrontal Cortex. IF you block norepinephrine transporters there you also increase dopamine!
Posted by conundrum on February 6, 2010, at 6:55:07
In reply to Re: correct link, posted by linkadge on February 5, 2010, at 17:36:34
I guess what they mean is less people will stop it due to less side effects? You are right though it ssays similar so its probably not more effective. I think its good cuz different people required different ratios of SE and NE.
Posted by conundrum on February 6, 2010, at 7:04:46
In reply to Re: Oregon University's new antidepressant » bulldog2, posted by floatingbridge on February 5, 2010, at 19:07:17
In my mind, I think dopamine is overrated. Many people enjoy amphetamines more than ritalin and they think its the dopamine, but amphetamines release more NE than dopamine followed by serotonin. Ritalin acts more on DA yet it doesn't make as many people euphoric. It makes some people more depressed and certainly doesn't make them out going or creative like Amphetamine.
My grandmom became psychotic on Nardil after being in a euphoric stage. The euphoria was probably from too much SE/NE and the psychosis was probably too much dopamine. It all went away after lowering the dose though.
On the other hand many people need DA augmentation. Unfortunately its hard to differentiate DA from NE because there is no pure reuptake inhibitor, the only way to tell is with a DA agonist.
FB what did you find helped you with low DA?
Posted by conundrum on February 6, 2010, at 7:06:01
In reply to cymbalta, topcatclr, posted by floatingbridge on February 6, 2010, at 1:04:16
Posted by bulldog2 on February 6, 2010, at 8:50:18
In reply to Re: Oregon University's new antidepressant » bulldog2, posted by floatingbridge on February 5, 2010, at 19:07:17
> Crazy, huh? Even the Stanford Guy said dopamine has not been addressed--and clearly there is a percentage of the population for which that is the determining key.
>
> Could it also be that the actions of dopamine are not as well understood despite active research, that seritonin and ne were easier to (begin to) utilize?
>
> Dopamine seems problematic because it is so powerful--too much, psychosis, impluse control problems (and I'm referring to self-destructive decision-making). Too little is implicated in more illnesses than parkensons that I can name.
>
> Just some thoughts from a dopamine responder....
>
> fbDopamine makes people feel good so therefore there are issues of addiction that our government wishes to protect us from.
Posted by linkadge on February 6, 2010, at 10:26:44
In reply to Re: Oregon University's new antidepressant, posted by bulldog2 on February 6, 2010, at 8:50:18
I don't know where this whole idea of dopamine being the magic cure comes from. So many people come on this board and say "I've got a dopamine problem because I have yadi-yada symptoms".
Fist off, there are virtually no AD's that target dopamine. Wellbutrin (contrary to popular belief) has only very weak effects on the dopamine transporter.
Mirapex is also not a miracle antidepressant.
Animals studies also show that if you increase dopamine in the pleasure centres of the brain it activates BDNF in that area. BDNF in the neucleus accumbens produces behavioral depression.
Long term admistration of many drugs of abuse often increases feelings of craving and of depression.
You can block the behavioral depressant effects of accumbal dopamine by administering antipsychotics. This is why antipsychotics probably have a better record of being adjuncts for depression than do stimulants.
D3 receptor activation likely produces the depressant effects as mice lacking the d3 receptor do not respond this way to dopaminergic drugs.
Infact mice that have been administered dopamine precursors or dopaminergic drugs behave like they have been defeated in social models of depression. Serotonin on the other hand facilitates social dominance.
There is a difference between pleasure and an antidepressant effect. For instance, smoking weed. Sure you get a hit, then you just feel like a looser.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on February 6, 2010, at 10:31:49
In reply to Re: Oregon University's new antidepressant, posted by conundrum on February 6, 2010, at 7:04:46
Sorry conundrum, you had addressed the same issue I did. I should have read all the posts.
I agree. Parnate made me depressed as f*ck. Ritalin is very inpredictable.
Ritalin does increase feelings of pleasure, but its not an antidepressant feeling for me. It makes me antisocial and sad. It often makes me feel like........a looser. Thats the best way to describe the feeling.
Linkadge
Posted by West on February 6, 2010, at 14:58:30
In reply to Re: Oregon University's new antidepressant » conundrum, posted by linkadge on February 6, 2010, at 10:31:49
To all intents and purposes I have found concerta to be a completely different drug to mph ir. The L-isomer, L-threo-methyphenidate, is covered by several patents citing its use as a short-acting mood lifter to be used during the 2-6 week waiting period for antidepressants.
My experience so far (3-4 months) has shown concerta to add another level to my treatment, however I am diagnosed with ADD. Nevertheless I think it might have this benefit in those not diagnosed. Particularly, cognitive problems relating to treatment might - to a degree - be restored. You may feel you're getting your brain back and start to have some positive affect.
There are also positive implications regarding dopaminergic dysregulation if one is also taking an SSRI/SNRI (though I don't pretend to know a lot about this). I could see how MPH on its own could be problematic.
Posted by bulldog2 on February 6, 2010, at 16:11:14
In reply to Re: Ritalin. Antidepressant effect., posted by West on February 6, 2010, at 14:58:30
> To all intents and purposes I have found concerta to be a completely different drug to mph ir. The L-isomer, L-threo-methyphenidate, is covered by several patents citing its use as a short-acting mood lifter to be used during the 2-6 week waiting period for antidepressants.
>
> My experience so far (3-4 months) has shown concerta to add another level to my treatment, however I am diagnosed with ADD. Nevertheless I think it might have this benefit in those not diagnosed. Particularly, cognitive problems relating to treatment might - to a degree - be restored. You may feel you're getting your brain back and start to have some positive affect.
>
> There are also positive implications regarding dopaminergic dysregulation if one is also taking an SSRI/SNRI (though I don't pretend to know a lot about this). I could see how MPH on its own could be problematic.I believe the effect of ssris may in fact be at least partially dopamine down regulation. Now when dopamine is overactive down regulation may be a good thing. The ssri is in fact acting a bit like an ap. But for those of
Posted by Cherry Carver on February 8, 2010, at 19:18:17
In reply to Oregon University's new antidepressant, posted by West on February 5, 2010, at 16:24:01
I mentioned this before, but Cymbalta made me throw up all day long after one dose and nearly stopped my heart. I hate this drug with all my might. I can't imagine what a stronger version would do! Wow!
>
> A stronger cymbalta? Less Hypotension (do they mean hypertension?) Don't they know milnacipran has been available for 15 years? Don't all shout at once...
>
>
> www.psychcentral.com/news/2010/02/05/improved-antidepressant-in-the-works/11212.html
Posted by floatingbridge on February 8, 2010, at 20:37:53
In reply to Re: Oregon University's new antidepressant » West, posted by Cherry Carver on February 8, 2010, at 19:18:17
CC, would it be stronger, or have less side effects--like effexor vs. pristiq? Could be you could not tolerate either. I tolerate both effexor and pristiq.... Pristiq does not work as well for me--but then, I compare that with the effexor response I had ten years ago....
fb
> I mentioned this before, but Cymbalta made me throw up all day long after one dose and nearly stopped my heart. I hate this drug with all my might. I can't imagine what a stronger version would do! Wow!
>
> >
> > A stronger cymbalta? Less Hypotension (do they mean hypertension?) Don't they know milnacipran has been available for 15 years? Don't all shout at once...
> >
> >
> > www.psychcentral.com/news/2010/02/05/improved-antidepressant-in-the-works/11212.html
>
>
Posted by Cherry Carver on February 9, 2010, at 0:05:42
In reply to Re: Oregon University's new antidepressant » Cherry Carver, posted by floatingbridge on February 8, 2010, at 20:37:53
Haven't tried any of those...here's what they prescribed for me in 1997 (Cymbalta came much later):
Wellbutrin
Buspar
Tegretol
Librium
Lithium
Depakote
Tofranil
Paxil
Mellaril
DesyrelAll these drugs were prescribed for me during the span of one month, several at the same time (even though they were contraindicated!). Needless to say, my mind has never been very clear since then.
I couldn't tolerate any of these, so they finally put me back on Klonopin. They did give me a brief course of Phenobarbital along with the other pills, but, to my great sorrow, I couldn't stay on it forever.
What was your response to Effexor? Also, you said you keep a mood chart--is that a doctor-specific chart or one you just keep to measure your own ebb and flow? How do you create a mood chart? I'd like to do that.
> CC, would it be stronger, or have less side effects--like effexor vs. pristiq? Could be you could not tolerate either. I tolerate both effexor and pristiq.... Pristiq does not work as well for me--but then, I compare that with the effexor response I had ten years ago....
>
> fb
>
> > I mentioned this before, but Cymbalta made me throw up all day long after one dose and nearly stopped my heart. I hate this drug with all my might. I can't imagine what a stronger version would do! Wow!
> >
> > >
> > > A stronger cymbalta? Less Hypotension (do they mean hypertension?) Don't they know milnacipran has been available for 15 years? Don't all shout at once...
> > >
> > >
> > > www.psychcentral.com/news/2010/02/05/improved-antidepressant-in-the-works/11212.html
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by floatingbridge on February 9, 2010, at 1:26:27
In reply to Re: Oregon University's new antidepressant » floatingbridge, posted by Cherry Carver on February 9, 2010, at 0:05:42
CC, that's one heck of a month! My head spins just reading the list. Don't know all of them.
My mood chart is on graph paper--pretty homey. Mood (depression & anxiety) registered 3x per day (sometimes all at the end of the day); meds and dosage taken; certain activities (walking, therapy); plus any events of note, illnesses, pain level jotted in the header.
I also keep pages of notes on triggers, dreams, preoccupations, whatever. Over a year and a half now--enormously helpful to me. I am sooooo scattered!
SLS here has posted his own template of a mood chart. Google mood chart and all sorts of templates & examples come
up.
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