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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by SLS on December 23, 2009, at 18:53:19
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects? » Alexanderfromdenmark, posted by conundrum on December 23, 2009, at 17:45:17
>I noticed a little boost from low dose buspar, perhaps thats because it's metabolite increases NE.
That might be an indicator that you would respond to Remeron.
- Scott
Posted by conundrum on December 23, 2009, at 21:03:19
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects? » conundrum, posted by SLS on December 23, 2009, at 18:53:19
Thats what I thought and also that I found prozac stimulating the first time, possibly from 5-HT2C blockade. My doc said he doesn't like to prescribe it because of weight gain and he doesn't know if I have depressive disorder. (only seen me 3 times) He prescribed nefazodone which i never filled though, and that has killed people. go figure.
Posted by conundrum on December 26, 2009, at 10:22:18
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects?, posted by SLS on December 20, 2009, at 13:57:25
for SLS, bleauberry and anyone else who has suffered from this post SSRI syndrome, did you find that taking noradrenergic drugs restored your ability to concentrate and remember things? My ability to hold knew information and move it to longer term memory is really bad since coming off prozac. Also are you able to feel love? I know intellectually that I love someone but can rarely feel it. Have you seen any improvements in these areas, if you had these symptoms?
Posted by SLS on December 26, 2009, at 10:38:09
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects? » SLS, posted by conundrum on December 26, 2009, at 10:22:18
> for SLS, bleauberry and anyone else who has suffered from this post SSRI syndrome, did you find that taking noradrenergic drugs restored your ability to concentrate and remember things? My ability to hold knew information and move it to longer term memory is really bad since coming off prozac. Also are you able to feel love? I know intellectually that I love someone but can rarely feel it. Have you seen any improvements in these areas, if you had these symptoms?
The things that you describe can be symptoms of depression. Depression often gets worse over time. It can also morph from being an illness that is primarily of negative affect to one of impairments of cognition and memory.
I am not challenging the existence of a post-SSRI syndrome. I have not researched it to form an opinion.
Did you experience these things while you were taking Prozac, or did they appear only after you discontinued it? Did these things exist prior to your first exposure to antidepressants?
- Scott
Posted by conundrum on December 26, 2009, at 10:42:58
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects? » conundrum, posted by SLS on December 26, 2009, at 10:38:09
The cognitive problems only appeared after stopping prozac completely. I did not have them during or prior to treatment. They did not improve upon reinstatement of the drug.
Posted by SLS on December 26, 2009, at 10:56:01
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects? » SLS, posted by conundrum on December 26, 2009, at 10:42:58
> The cognitive problems only appeared after stopping prozac completely. I did not have them during or prior to treatment. They did not improve upon reinstatement of the drug.
Are you currently depressed?
Were you depressed while you were taking the Prozac?
What other drugs might you be taking?
- Scott
Posted by conundrum on December 26, 2009, at 11:36:21
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects? » conundrum, posted by SLS on December 26, 2009, at 10:56:01
I would say I'm depressed because I'm anhedonic and unmotivated and don't take much pleasure in life. I'm not on any meds now, I'm taking a break because I will be away for a month.
I have tried:
Prozac(again)
Lexapro
Budeprion
BusparThe only thing I noticed helping was 5mgs buspar with 2.5 mg prozac. I felt more motivated then.
Posted by morganator on December 26, 2009, at 11:44:57
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects? » SLS, posted by conundrum on December 26, 2009, at 10:42:58
I have some questions. If you were not depressed when taking Prozac, why did you decide to get off? Please don't take this the wrong way, I have done the same thing and realized that it was a mistake at the time and I should have waited until I was ready or had a really good plan for transitioning from being on a medication to being off. I was not suffering from any real side effects other than maybe being a bit thirsty more than the average person. So, I definitely should have waited or just stayed on Zoloft for good.
I have some suggestions as far as your cognitive issues go if you are willing to spend some money and give these things some time. There are several supplements out there that can greatly improve cognitive function:
Acetyl-L-Carnitine - highly recommend-500 mgs upon waking on an empty stomach-may want to consider taking R Lipoic Acid with this as they work synergistically.
Ginko Biloba-Nature's Made GinkoGold is by far the best most clinically proven Ginko product on the market. May take up to 4 to 6 weeks before noticing a difference.
Bacopa Monniera-Ayuverdic herb that can both improve memory and relieve anxiety and has been studied clinically. May also take anywhere from 3 to 12 weeks to receive full benefit.
Piracetam-Very interesting compound that may not only improve cognition but also improve creativity. People like me that are bipolar can be sensitive to it and begin to feel too stimulated in an agitated way. Otherwise it is a very benign substance and has not shown to be hardly toxic.
I would strongly recommend looking into these options. Acetyl L Carnitine(ALCAR), R lipoic acid, Ginko biloba, and Bacopa(I think I am already feeling the effects of this after one week!) are my favorites. I may try Piracetam again when I feel I have stabilized more. When I tried it the first time I was NOT feeling stable at all. The first time I took it I felt so good I could not sleep all night. Then I continued to take it but did not feel so hot. For anyone that is not sensitive like I am it is definitely worth trying.
Just google all of these and see what you come up with.
Posted by morganator on December 26, 2009, at 11:51:20
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects? » SLS, posted by conundrum on December 26, 2009, at 10:42:58
Are you taking fish oil? That can also help with brain function. I would recommend something with a higher than normal EPA to DHA ratio. Vitamin Shoppe MegaFishOil is a good deal, the rest are way too expensive. Otherwise, if you belong to CostCo, the cheapest and still fairly high quality fish oil around is Kirkland's. I would spend a few extra bucks on the enteric coating capsules. I took Kirkland's fish oil for years and felt fine but lately I think I do better on one with a higher EPA to DHA ratio, say 4:1 instead of 3:2-which is what most fish oil products have.
There is also a product sold by Himalaya called MindCare. It actually has Bacopa in it along with some other potentially helpful herbs, including Ashwaghanda. You may not only find yourself thinking better but also feeling better on this product and the others I mentioned.
Good luck!
Posted by conundrum on December 26, 2009, at 11:53:22
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects?, posted by morganator on December 26, 2009, at 11:44:57
Interestingly I have tried some of those. Right now I take 180 mg of ginkgold a day. I had taken gingko before for 2 years without much improvment. I took acetyl l carnitine as well. It just gave me headaches however.
I may consider pircatam if nothing that helps depression helps memory. I'll google Bacopa and see what that does.
Posted by morganator on December 26, 2009, at 12:01:46
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects? » SLS, posted by conundrum on December 26, 2009, at 10:42:58
One more thing! Exercise, exercise, exercise! If you want to rebuild your brain, especially in those areas such as the hippocampus that deal with learning and memory, exercise is one of the best ways to do that.
If you find that you feel so bad you can't exercise, try some of the other things I suggested for a while as they may give you more energy and make you feel better. And, think about getting back on a medication if you are not doing so already. If you can get yourself to exercise, start off slowly and give yourself time to build up to more moderate or intense levels. You only need about 20 to 30 minutes of good cardio to get benefit. Then a good meditative stretch is helpful after. Actually, if you can find a way to sort of meditate and close your eyes briefly and breath through your mouth then nose while doing cardiovascular exercise, you may find yourself getting more of that "high" and increase in oxygen and blood flow to your brain. These are just things that I do that I find helpful. Also, during exercise try to take all negative thoughts and turn them into positive ones. Or just wipe out the negative for the time and try not to think about anything. It may be hard but it works for me and many others I have talked to.
>They did not improve upon reinstatement of the drug.
Does this mean that you are on Prozac again now?
Posted by conundrum on December 26, 2009, at 12:27:32
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects?, posted by morganator on December 26, 2009, at 12:01:46
No I"m not taking it now. It made me dysphoric last time although I only took 5mgs. I was feeling good on buspar and prozac 5mg every other day. When increased prozac to everyday it took away all the improvement. The only things i take now are a diuretic and ginkgo.
Posted by morganator on December 26, 2009, at 12:28:09
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects? » morganator, posted by conundrum on December 26, 2009, at 11:53:22
If you did try ALCAR again, you might want to consider taking something like GPC Choline with it. It's also recommended to take R lipoic acid with it to get the full benefits from ALCAR. I know I already mentioned this.
I think you might like Bacopa. It takes a while to work though. You may just want to try MindCare and see if that works after a month or so. I would take it twice a day to get the most out of it.
Hope something works for you soon.
I agree with Scott that part of your problem may be due to just being depressed and if you get that resolved your mind may start working better again. Also, those of us that have suffered from chronic depression and anxiety have to realize that both chronic depression and anxiety DO cause brain damage. Much of this damage is thought to be reversible given the right interventions and conditions.
Posted by conundrum on December 26, 2009, at 12:53:19
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects?, posted by morganator on December 26, 2009, at 12:01:46
No I"m not taking it now. It made me dysphoric last time although I only took 5mgs. I was feeling good on buspar and prozac 5mg every other day. When increased prozac to everyday it took away all the improvement. The only things i take now are a diuretic and ginkgo.
Posted by conundrum on December 26, 2009, at 12:53:21
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects?, posted by morganator on December 26, 2009, at 12:01:46
No I"m not taking it now. It made me dysphoric last time although I only took 5mgs. I was feeling good on buspar and prozac 5mg every other day. When increased prozac to everyday it took away all the improvement. The only things i take now are a diuretic and ginkgo.
Posted by conundrum on December 26, 2009, at 12:55:08
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects?, posted by morganator on December 26, 2009, at 12:28:09
I took neuro optimizer from Jarrow. http://www.jarrow.com/product/188/Neuro_Optimizer
Its funny when i first tried it over 4 years ago it worked great mentally but made me constipated. Now it just gives me headaches. I was on ginkgo for awhile when i started it then and also had lower blood pressure. Don't know if those factors could have made a difference.
Posted by morganator on December 26, 2009, at 13:06:27
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects? » morganator, posted by conundrum on December 26, 2009, at 12:55:08
Not to keep bombarding you with supplements, but have you tried Ubiquinol(the better more bioavailable form of COQ10-cheapest at Vitamin Shoppe(their brand of course)-you can go online or to a local one if you have one) for high blood pressure? I think Garlic is supposed to be very good as well along with a few others.
Here's a few links with good info: the first one suggest folic acid as one supplement but I would avoid taking too much folic acid. Actually, it is possible that Lyrica depletes folic acid so you may have to supplement extra for that reason. We have to be mindful that most of these medications we take deplete our body of essential nutrients.
Posted by morganator on December 26, 2009, at 13:10:21
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects? » morganator, posted by conundrum on December 26, 2009, at 12:55:08
Lyrica may not deplete anything, at least it does not appear to. I would check out your lyrica information sheet if you still have it just to make sure.
Posted by conundrum on December 26, 2009, at 13:12:09
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects?, posted by morganator on December 26, 2009, at 13:10:21
must be some confusion i don't take lyrica. I don't mind the supplement recommendations though. Thank you for the info!
Posted by morganator on December 26, 2009, at 13:28:55
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects? » morganator, posted by conundrum on December 26, 2009, at 13:12:09
Oops! I'm confusing you with someone else! My early intervention with supplements obviously has not quite gotten me to optimal levels of improvement yet! Ha ha.
You're welcome for the suggestions
Posted by conundrum on January 9, 2010, at 14:43:04
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects?, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on December 23, 2009, at 9:34:40
exercise just kinda makes me dizzy. I´m talking about bike riding specifically
Posted by Phillipa on January 9, 2010, at 20:40:23
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects? » Alexanderfromdenmark, posted by conundrum on January 9, 2010, at 14:43:04
That's what I do!!!! Phillipa
Posted by conundrum on March 13, 2010, at 9:17:47
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects?, posted by morganator on December 26, 2009, at 12:01:46
Not to revive a dead thread, but I wondered if anyone out here can relate to a loss of color after or while taking psychotropic drugs? I'm not talking about just losing interest in activities that at one time were pleasurable. I mean the world seems perceivably different.
Spending the day on a sunny beach feels different than a rainy stroll down a city alley way. And being in a bustling city at night has a different vibe from being in your own home. I used to be able to feel these differences. But now I know longer perceive them.
Its like the aura is gone. Not a real aura like seeing colors or something psychic, its just like a black or white world now.
Watching TV in black and white you still get the same show, but its not as good as color and once you've had color you don't want black and white again.
Now I only get glimpses of color in memories that appear in my mind for about one second. I know Bleauberry has mentioned expereincing a loss of "color." Is this what most of you with anhedonia experience or do you just not feel like doing things you once did? Maybe they go hand in hand maybe not.
Posted by Phillipa on March 13, 2010, at 19:59:04
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects? » morganator, posted by conundrum on March 13, 2010, at 9:17:47
Don't feel like doing things once did. But it's because nothing in the last few years has worked. Phillipa
Posted by conundrum on March 21, 2010, at 16:36:21
In reply to Re: Is there hope for Post SSRI side effects?, posted by Phillipa on March 13, 2010, at 19:59:04
There does seem to be some hope for post SSRI side effects. Drugs that increase norepinephrine seem to help. I've been able to enjoy some color this beautiful weekend on pristiq. Its not totally back to normal, but pristiq is a very weak NRI. Maybe I'll see more progress as the serotonergic system downregulates.
It feels like it wakes my brain up out of the post SSRI stupor. In the long run I may a drug more specific to NRI but for now its some progress in the right direction.
This is the end of the thread.
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