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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by West on December 23, 2009, at 12:03:57
I'm getting to be a bit grouchy/nervous and antisocial with concerta. Is it possible that taking ampetamine, particularly dexedrine, might allow me to focus without this happening?
Amphetamines can worsen mood. Another concern is WHETHER people are actually involuntarily bashing the brain's pleasure systems, or causing a measurable degree of brain damage at prescribed doses.
Also, It could be purely incidental but I see quite a few spelling errors and signs of illogical thinking when I read posts on the net from people taking it. Could just be that they're brains are going quicker than their hands.
Bottom Line: How safe and effective is it for people in comparison to ritalin and its myriad long acting preparations?
Posted by Phillipa on December 23, 2009, at 12:54:02
In reply to Are you less antisocial on amphetamine than MPH?, posted by West on December 23, 2009, at 12:03:57
If little kids take them shouldn't they be safe? Or is it different in adults? Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on December 23, 2009, at 18:12:41
In reply to Are you less antisocial on amphetamine than MPH?, posted by West on December 23, 2009, at 12:03:57
I had the same question: whether amphetamine is better then methylphenidate in terms of social interaction.
Amphetamines in theraputic doses have not been shown to produce neurotoxicity, although this may still happen I don't know. There are studies showing however, that amphetamines (in theraputic doses) can speed recovery after stroke. Amphetamines, in theraputic doses, also appear to enhance hippocampal plasticity / neurogenesis.
There are often people (on stimulants) on this board who write poorly. This could be an effect of the stimulants or other underlying disorders or medications (or simply due to the fact that stimulants tend to get prescribed as cognative enhancers for those with MID.
Unfortunately, some people who are prescribed amphetamines abuse them. This can complicate the clincal picture.
Linkadge
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on December 23, 2009, at 20:06:50
In reply to Re: Are you less antisocial on amphetamine than MPH?, posted by linkadge on December 23, 2009, at 18:12:41
Amphetamine does increase socialization, and "connection" more with people more than Rililin because what it does is "stimulantes" dopamine and noradrenaline into the synapses. Methypheidate only "blocks" the reptake of it, same thing Cocaine does...but to a far lesser extent.
That's why the most effective medication I took was Dexedrine, yet there was abuse that went on...just like you take another one after it wear's off and say "it's keeping me going" that's common with amphetamine abuse, which yes I have abused stimulants in the past but I surely though morality will not do it because it would just blow my chances of being on a stimulant for vital reasons.
Adderall actaully would be more better, in some way's than dexedrine because it has "levoamphetamine" which stimulantes more NE properties and causes more of a "sting" "boost" while dextroamphetamine just "increases dopamine firing" yet there isnt much of a "speedy" like feeling, but it all depends on a person, because Dexedrine was alot better than adderall with concentration. When you take a stimulant, [amphetamine-wise] it causes you to just "connect" and become "intrested" in things you normally are "burned out" on, or just don't care about anymore. Lower doses [10-20mg] I find actaully decrease socialization, while moderate doses increase it [40-60mg which is the FDA limit]. Your more "psyched" up to do things.
Hope this helps. And best wishes to you on dexerine. Just pray soon I will at least have something to help me with focus.
rj
Posted by MoonageDaydream on December 23, 2009, at 22:54:13
In reply to Are you less antisocial on amphetamine than MPH?, posted by West on December 23, 2009, at 12:03:57
In my personal experience, methylphenidate is the worst of the stimulants with respect to anxiety. I felt more nervous, tense, and jittery while taking it, which made me less sociable.
Focalin (dexmethylphenidate) is a slight chemical alteration of the original methylphenidate molecule (think Lexapro vs. Celexa, or Dexedrine vs. Adderall). Many people notice less peripheral stimulation and find it better than regular MPH in terms of side effects.
A lot of people also feel subjectively "better" or "more like themselves" on amphetamines than on methylphenidate. I'm one of these people. They're all fairly effective for my ADD (inattentive type), but Dexedrine gives me the least side effects. There's no hard and fast rule though, and since people's brains can be very different, you'll just have to try them out and see if a change works. If you do switch, I'd suggest asking your doctor for a 2 week supply of the new med and a 2 week supply of what you currently take. That way, if the new stimulant doesn't work for you, you're not stuck with it for a whole month.
I've noticed that many of the side-effects, especially nervousness, appetite suppression, and insomnia tend to diminish or go away entirely after taking the medication regularly for about 2 weeks. If they don't, lowering the dose sometimes eliminates the side-effects without losing the effectiveness of the drug.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on December 24, 2009, at 1:07:04
In reply to Re: Are you less antisocial on amphetamine than MPH?, posted by linkadge on December 23, 2009, at 18:12:41
>
> There are often people (on stimulants) on this board who write poorly.pardon my ignorance, but do you mean the above observation as evidence of stim's potential for neurotoxicity, or were you referring to their effect on writing acuity in general? i'm interested because i'm hoping stims might help facilitate my return to work as a writer, but i'm wondering if they're better for mindlessly pounding out essays, or if they can be used for more fine-tuned handiwork.
fwiw, i find the crash from ritalin (i've only tried SR) really hard to stomach; it was even worse after the mood-effects wore off after 3 days. but it was really instrumental in helping me function, and enlargening the scope of activities (concentration-wise) available to me in my depression. my sugar/carb cravings disappeared, i could channel my energy away from insantly-rewarding activities (video games, the internet, etc.) into reading, exercise, etc.
the only other stim available to me is IR dexedrine; i'm wondering if it's worth the switch, or if i'll just experience the same mood issues. i really don't believe abuse will be a problem
Posted by West on December 24, 2009, at 8:31:14
In reply to Re: Are you less antisocial on amphetamine than MP » linkadge, posted by g_g_g_unit on December 24, 2009, at 1:07:04
Posted by linkadge on December 24, 2009, at 14:17:14
In reply to Re: Are you less antisocial on amphetamine than MPH?, posted by MoonageDaydream on December 23, 2009, at 22:54:13
I do agree with some of the comments made about dex and methylphenidate. In defense of methylphenidate though, it seems to have a more positive effect on my spacial processing (ie playing the piano). It also seems to do more for my depression.
I switched to dexedrine last year and while the initial effects were very positive, I found myself in a hole (depression) more often.
I have more feelings of sadness on amphetamine.
Methylphenidate *can* tend to make me feel a little more antisocial, but overall, I tend to like it a bit better.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 24, 2009, at 14:23:00
In reply to Re: Are you less antisocial on amphetamine than MP » linkadge, posted by g_g_g_unit on December 24, 2009, at 1:07:04
>pardon my ignorance, but do you mean the above >observation as evidence of stim's potential for >neurotoxicity, or were you referring to their >effect on writing acuity in general?
No I was just addressing the above question that was wondering if they do/could cause neurotoxicity.
>i'm interested because i'm hoping stims might >help facilitate my return to work as a writer, >but i'm wondering if they're better for >mindlessly pounding out essays, or if they can >be used for more fine-tuned handiwork.
Hard to say, some people say that stims unleash (or harness) creativity, other people say they make their thinking more boring and linear.
>fwiw, i find the crash from ritalin (i've only >tried SR) really hard to stomach; it was even >worse after the mood-effects wore off after 3 >days. but it was really instrumental in helping >me function, and enlargening the scope of >activities (concentration-wise) available to me >in my depression. my sugar/carb cravings >disappeared, i could channel my energy away from >insantly-rewarding activities (video games, the >internet, etc.) into reading, exercise, etc.
Ritalin can be good spark for changes in ones life, but maintaining those new habbits is the hard part.
>the only other stim available to me is IR >dexedrine; i'm wondering if it's worth the >switch, or if i'll just experience the same mood >issues. i really don't believe abuse will be a >problem
The only way you'll know is if you try. Some people say that dexedrine is a little better in terms of cognition. I don't know. There were aspects of dexedrine that I really liked, but overall I think I like ritalin a little better.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on December 25, 2009, at 2:33:08
In reply to Re: Are you less antisocial on amphetamine than MP, posted by linkadge on December 24, 2009, at 14:23:00
>
> Hard to say, some people say that stims unleash (or harness) creativity, other people say they make their thinking more boring and linear.i donno. i guess for me, creativity was always a way to compensate for a lack of linear/organized thinking, if that makes sense; since my thoughts never appeared to me with great clarity, i'd often end up voicing them in more convoluted ways. i definitely feel like a touch more linearity could be beneficial.
>
>
> Ritalin can be good spark for changes in ones life, but maintaining those new habbits is the hard part.
>
yeah. i'm in CBT, which definitely helps, but i also feel the process is really limited by my incapacity to do certain things i would like to.
>
> The only way you'll know is if you try. Some people say that dexedrine is a little better in terms of cognition. I don't know. There were aspects of dexedrine that I really liked, but overall I think I like ritalin a little better.
>well, that's the tricky part - since stims are so frugally prescribed where i live, i cannot obtain them for general concentration difficulties (though some kind of inattentive ADD/OCD combination is suspected by my therapist). i'm seeing a separate ADD doctor (trained only as a GP) in order to obtain ritalin, and will in all likelihood be prescribed dexedrine next.
i have no moral issues with this - i have no history of drug abuse, and will do what it takes to get the best treatment i can. the only problem is that i feel like stims might be useful as part of a treatment package, but the mood rollercoaster they induce makes them difficult to tolerate as monotherapy. unfortunately, the GP in question doesn't really deal in AD therapy, instead treating more run-of-the-mill ADD cases. i am terrified - not being monitored by a psych - of experiencing stim psychosis.
i may trial the dex, and then, if it's clearly beneficial, inform the next psych i see. but just in case, are there any obvious preliminary signs of stim psychosis to watch out for?
Posted by West on December 29, 2009, at 17:56:14
In reply to Re: Are you less antisocial on amphetamine than MPH?, posted by MoonageDaydream on December 23, 2009, at 22:54:13
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I am going to try an amphetamine. The guidelines set out my NICE for Adult ADD, which is only recently emerging from out of the shadows here and the preserve of a small handful of private doctors, strongly recommend long acting methlyphenidate. My own doctor is therefore keen for me to plough on, but I don't think I can handle the assult on the personality it brings. Maybe i'm being too melodramatic.
The vocabulary used here by Moonage - tense, nervous, jittery - describe my experience to a tee. I hope my suggestion of amphetamines as being a better alternative in this matter doesn't sound as idiotic as I just thought it did.
This is the end of the thread.
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