![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phillipa on November 4, 2009, at 12:40:43
Okay I admit I'm desparate was doing okay and feeling better then what do I do I see why my back pains and see an orthopedist who has me do all these excercises tells me wow your're great shape then takes back x-rays and says you have the back of a l00 year old and get on fosamax. I say can I have a script before searching he says no. See your internist. So immediatly get Dexa Scan and three weeks later still no results and have called. Well since then have reasearched those meds boniva, actonel, fosamax lawsuits pending and they don't build bone they inhibit the removal of dead cells out of the bone and inhibit growth the osteoblasts. So I'm now out of googles. Taking the ca mg and D3. As the side effects of the meds aren't the thing it's what they do to your bones. And I can't be a cripple. So do I just wait for the inevitible and deal with the pain? Please some advise. Docs sure don't know and don't want to be responsible for the meds. Phillipa
Posted by bulldog2 on November 4, 2009, at 13:09:07
In reply to Desperated no wheelchair what to do for osteoporos, posted by Phillipa on November 4, 2009, at 12:40:43
There are some very good supplements in the health food store for osteoporosis. I would strongly recommend weight baring exercises in a rehab place under the supervision of a pt person.While riding your tricycle is good cardio yo need to lift weights. Drink plenty of milk that is calcium enriched and supplement with magnesium foods. I also strongly recommend soy products as they act as a gentle form of estrogen and are great for the bones. Learn how to make seaweed soup as that is wonderful for the bones also.
You must stop your diet of chocolate truffles as that is not good nutrition.
Posted by maxime on November 4, 2009, at 14:30:57
In reply to Desperated no wheelchair what to do for osteoporos, posted by Phillipa on November 4, 2009, at 12:40:43
Since not too many people on PB have been able to help you, I wonder if there isn't a woman's health discussion board out there that might. I can't think of any myself, but you are Queen of Googlers! I hope you find your answers Phillipa and I wish I could be of more help.
Posted by TenMan on November 4, 2009, at 15:39:08
In reply to Desperated no wheelchair what to do for osteoporos, posted by Phillipa on November 4, 2009, at 12:40:43
You want to ingest K2, D3 and Calcium for osteoporosis.
K2 in the form of MK-7 (menequinone)is vitamin k in a form that offers a long stable half-life with plasma levels that once elevated remain that way for days. Epidemiological studies have shown that high MK-7 levels correlate to greater bone density and lower fracture rates. Vitamin K helps D3 direct caclium in to the proper places and stimulates the formation of Osteoblasts. A good dose of MK-7 is anywhere between 45-90mcg. a day for those who currently have Osteoporosis.
D3-Very simply, D3 (cholecalciferol) stimulates the movement of calcium out of circulation and into tissues. Without adequate K D3 will push calcium into ALL tissues so there is a risk of soft tissue calcification if you take D3 without adequate K levels. Between 50-80ng/l of D3 is the dose shown in epidemiological studies to offer the optimal benefit. It is best to get bloodwork and adjust your dose accordingly, however, without bloodwork a good dose seems to be around 4-6 thousand IU's a day.
I myself take D3 and MK-7 daily for strong bones and general health. I take 4k iu's of D3 and 45mcg. of MK-7 with my largest meal since they are both lipid soluble.
Hope this helps.
Posted by TenMan on November 4, 2009, at 15:44:28
In reply to Re: Desperated no wheelchair what to do for osteoporos, posted by TenMan on November 4, 2009, at 15:39:08
Between 50-80ng/l of D3 is the dose shown in epidemiological studies to offer the optimal benefit.
Sorry, the above should read:
"50-80ng/l of D3 is the blood level shown in epidemiological studies to offer the optimal benefit"
Posted by floatingbridge on November 4, 2009, at 18:37:15
In reply to Re: Desperated no wheelchair what to do for osteoporos, posted by TenMan on November 4, 2009, at 15:39:08
Ten Man,
Thanks for the tip on vit k. I've just started adding it to my & my son's diet. Didn't know how it worked with d3 (which I have been taking.)
Phillipa,
there must be an osteo support group online--That Maxie is a sharp thinker!
You're in my thoughts,
fb
Posted by zana on November 4, 2009, at 18:49:21
In reply to Phillipa + Ten Man » TenMan, posted by floatingbridge on November 4, 2009, at 18:37:15
Hi Phillipa,
Sorry to hear your news. I agree about weight lifting as it draws calcium into your bones. You might also consider estrogen. It's a proven therapy even though there are plenty of downsides.
I too think Maxine's suggestion is a great one.
Hang in there,
Zana
Posted by TenMan on November 4, 2009, at 19:56:01
In reply to Phillipa + Ten Man » TenMan, posted by floatingbridge on November 4, 2009, at 18:37:15
> Ten Man,
>
> Thanks for the tip on vit k. I've just started adding it to my & my son's diet. Didn't know how it worked with d3 (which I have been taking.)
You are welcome!
Posted by Phillipa on November 4, 2009, at 20:33:07
In reply to Re: Phillipa + Ten Man, posted by TenMan on November 4, 2009, at 19:56:01
Ten Man thanks also. Right now I'm taking l000mg of calcium mg with D3 l000IU's per bottle. The Vita K didn't know about or the absorption in body tissues. Yes the google queen has been googing but hasn't found any boards but the ones who use fosamax, boniva, and actonel. I do have or will have an appointment with a doc I saw when moved here did last Dexa Scan. Let me see if can find link to him as would like your opinions of whether you think he can help. Must add that three years ago he said boniva. They do research also and take patients. If a study is going on. Love Phillipa seriously this worries I don't want to look as the ortho said a great package but inside be l00.
Posted by Phillipa on November 4, 2009, at 20:40:29
In reply to Re: Desperated no wheelchair what to do for osteoporos » Phillipa, posted by maxime on November 4, 2009, at 14:30:57
Here's link of doc and practice now be honest please. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on November 5, 2009, at 11:24:45
In reply to Re: Desperated no wheelchair what to do for osteoporos, posted by Phillipa on November 4, 2009, at 20:40:29
Did anyone look at the doc and his credentials. Please they will call today do I go or not. I need your help with decisions my mind is racing from topic to topic panic I guess. But this is a life and death decision. I just need your feedback? Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on November 5, 2009, at 13:17:08
In reply to Re: Desperated no wheelchair what to do for osteoporos, posted by Phillipa on November 5, 2009, at 11:24:45
Study. Phillipa
Posted by Nadezda on November 5, 2009, at 13:17:54
In reply to Desperated no wheelchair what to do for osteoporos, posted by Phillipa on November 4, 2009, at 12:40:43
I don't see why you won't take fosamax, as it helps bone density and is associated with reduced risk of fractures.
The mechanism of action is to reduce the turnover of bone cells, which aren't replaced in sufficient numbers in woman after the age of 30.
as follows from wiki:
"Treatment of post-menopausal women with Fosamax has demonstrated normalization of the rate of bone turnover, significant increase in BMD (bone mineral density) of the spine, hip, wrist and total body, and significant reductions in the risk of vertebral (spine) fractures, wrist fractures, hip fractures, and all non-vertebral fractures. In the women with the highest risk of fracture (by virtue of pre-existing vertebral fractures) in the Fracture Intervention Trial, treatment with Fosamax 5 mg/day for two years followed by 10 mg/day for the third year (plus calcium and vitamin D) resulted in approximately 50% reductions in fractures of the spine, hip and wrist compared with the control group taking placebos plus calcium and vitamin D."
So if you're worried about bone density, you should take that option very seriously-- as well as getting a test for the amount of vitamin D and making sure to get enough calcium.
Every med as side effects, but the serious side effects from this drug are rare, and often related to dental surgery. I know this because my mother has had this issue and has had good results from fosamax.
Nadezda
Posted by Phillipa on November 5, 2009, at 19:37:20
In reply to Re: Desperated no wheelchair what to do for osteoporos, posted by Nadezda on November 5, 2009, at 13:17:54
My vitamin D levels were tested via blood by my endo and found to be in the middle of good. And I've taken calcium citrate and mg for over 30 years, ran for years, and had own aerobics business for years. Ran til age 58 when tripped and broke arm. Mine is hereditary. Lets see three weeks gone by called the internist and still no results from Dexa so seeing the specialist in the group that tested me for lymes levels and another dexa as he did the last one where spine -2.7, hip -2.3, femoral neck -2.3. I think I posted the website. Why a lawsuit if it's so benign? Doesn't build real bone osteoclasts are inhibited from removing dead bone cells from the bones so they accumlate. Hence how the bone appears denser but really isn't. Phillipa
Posted by Nadezda on November 5, 2009, at 21:55:11
In reply to Re: Desperated no wheelchair what to do for osteoporos » Nadezda, posted by Phillipa on November 5, 2009, at 19:37:20
The main point, however, is that it prevents a meaningful percentage of fractures. Since that's what's so bad about osteoporosis, it seems to me that fosamax is beneficial.
I didn't say it was benign, I said it was rare. There's a huge difference.
My point really is that if you have a good chance of suffering fractures, and a minimal chance of some side effect, what makes sense?
Everyone has to make their own decision, but until a better treatment for osteoporosis is found, I would advise someone I cared about, who had osteoporosis, to take fosamax.
Nadezda
Posted by Phillipa on November 5, 2009, at 22:27:23
In reply to Re: Desperated no wheelchair what to do for osteoporos, posted by Nadezda on November 5, 2009, at 21:55:11
But there are there are new meds now have you googled forteo and generally meds for osteoporosis and there is a length of time you can take the bisphosphantes and then you revert back to the way you were. There's also a nasal spay and injections on a yearly basis. Hormones are also options as the estrogen is what makes for strong bones. And you still need ca mg and D with the meds. And then so many have digestive problems and they are contraindicated then. Lots of work needs to be done in this field also. I do appreciate your concern and that means more googling. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on November 5, 2009, at 23:51:19
In reply to Re: Desperated no wheelchair what to do for osteoporos » Nadezda, posted by Phillipa on November 5, 2009, at 22:27:23
It's really all a catch 22. Phillipa
tp://womenshealth.suite101.com/article.cfm/building_and_rebuilding_better_bones
Posted by seldomseen on November 6, 2009, at 3:34:22
In reply to Re: Desperated no wheelchair what to do for osteoporos, posted by Phillipa on November 5, 2009, at 23:51:19
In your opinion, which is more likely to happen - a debilitating hip/spine fracture or lesions in your jaw? Do the potential benefits outweigh the risks?
What do the data say? What do your doctors say?
What are you most concerned with?
There are no perfect drugs, there are no perfect solutions to osteoporosis.
Posted by Nadezda on November 6, 2009, at 7:40:38
In reply to Re: Desperated no wheelchair what to do for osteoporos, posted by Phillipa on November 5, 2009, at 23:51:19
It's not really a catch-22. There are drugs that treat osteoporosis. They aren't perfect, as seldom said-- but they work.
If you truly are worried about ending up in a wheelchair Phillipa-- the answer should be clear. Take a drug-- whether it's forteo, fosamax, boniva, or some of the newer drugs that are being developed.
But from what I learned with my mother, your spine density score should be worrying-- and I would begin a course of treatment immediately.
Also, while it's recommended not to take bisphosphonates for more than 7-10 years, your bones do not immediately return to pre-drug levels-- although they do begin to weaken again. Also because of their long half-life, my mother's doctor recommended that she take occasional vacations from the drug, which would allow her to take it for much longer than simply 7-10 years. There are solutions.
What you need is probably the bisphosphonates now-- to hold you until better drugs are available.
And of course, doing weight bearing exercises is very important. Walking is better than riding your bike, for example.
I put a fair amount of time into helping my mother make these decisions, and I feel pretty confident that I understand the issues.
But of course, you have to do what you feel is best for you.
Nadezda
Posted by floatingbridge on November 6, 2009, at 12:27:14
In reply to Re: Desperated no wheelchair what to do for osteoporos » Phillipa, posted by Nadezda on November 6, 2009, at 7:40:38
Hi Nadezda,
I want to weigh in that your advice seems sound, esp. w/ the experience w/ your mom behind it.
Phillipa, what do you think? I hear that you're scared and facing a serious decision about your health. I think what Nadezda says has a lot of merit.
love & hugs to you during this difficult time--please know we're here for you--I hope you can feel it.
fb
Posted by Phillipa on November 6, 2009, at 17:31:43
In reply to Re: Desperated no wheelchair what to do for osteop » Nadezda, posted by floatingbridge on November 6, 2009, at 12:27:14
I know your're all correct in what you are saying now it's a decision of which one as they all seem to have different profiles. I finally heard from the internists RN today that he said take fosamax didn't have the scores. My husband said we want them. And will pick them up Monday. And the osteo doc I saw in past now has my chart he was off today and I trust him more. And the last Dexa was done on his machines so they say should always used the same one. So will pay out of pocket if need be. As I said it's the decision making now. And no I don't want to end up in a wheelchair. Also know walking is better than the bike. But it's my love. For some reason I could always jog and never walk boring to me. I need to check this kind and concerned thread to see if I did actually post the doc's site. Also sorry that link didn't work. It's not the side effects more that what is this thing about old bone accumulating and it looking like new bone and its not hence the dexa looks better. I don't understand that one. Could someone explain? Thanks yes it is hard to make a decision I'm so active. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on November 6, 2009, at 19:19:24
In reply to Re: Desperated no wheelchair what to do for osteop, posted by Phillipa on November 6, 2009, at 17:31:43
Things happen for a reason my facebook friend just replied with this What are your thoughts? Phillipa
"Jan, He sells ADHD meds so he is no help. Before having my son I worked in pharma sales for 6 years and sold osteoporosis meds!!!! You're in luck!!!! I sold Evista. It is a different kind of osteo medicine... it has heart benefits as well as reduces the risk of breast cancer. The gold standard out there is Fosamax... they have once a month pills. There is also an iv administered med called Forteo that is made by the same company as Evista. I would recommend asking your doc about that. It's once a year! Good luck!"
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.