![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 17 to 41 of 67. Go back in thread:
Posted by Buckeye Fan on October 21, 2009, at 5:56:07
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by bleauberry on October 20, 2009, at 17:18:03
> > Just wanting some opinions gang....after 10-15 years of using an AD and a Benzo....is there any hope I could become med free ?
>
> AFter 15 years of most of the psych drugs, the longest stretches being one year on Paxil and then 8 years on Prozac+Zyprexa+Modafinil, I have been med free for 3 years.
>
> >
> > Would my system eventually return to it's pre-med state?
> >
> > BF
>
> No. That will never happen. In 15 years, with or without meds, a things have changed. The body is always aging, changing, adapting, and so on. Things never stand still. You would land in some new place unlike the old you and unlike the drugged you.
>
> People who do the best med-free after long psychiatric med histories usually have a few things in common...
>
> 1. They change their food choices and activity choice. For example, some feel better on something similar to the Atkins diet...basically heavy on proteins and plants, very light on anything else. Some people like me do best on an anti-inflammatory diet, which is heavy on plants and fats but light on proteins. It is a healthy change to take on a new hobby or activity, sort of like a new chapter in the book. It symbolically draws a purposeful line in the sand that says the old is done, bring on the new.
>
> 2. Experimentation and usage of natural reinforcement. That could be anything...SAMe, SJW, Rhodiola, 5hpt, tyrosine, dlpa, GABA, glycine, ginkgo, one of the three ginsengs, feverfew, lemon balm, passionflower, albizzia, adrenal cortex extract, licorice, and others. These things are highly under-rated in terms of power and potential, usually because the user is not well informed on how to choose them, dose them, or combine them.
>
> 3. Detective work to hunt down the real cause of the psychiatric symptoms that was ignored and covered up all those years on meds. It can turn out to be something like thyroid, adrenal fatigue, amalgam fillings, candida, one of a number of ruthless pathogens with Borellia (Lyme) being just one of them, or a combination of several things likely. Many times we may never know what the real problem is, but there are still vast treasures of plants on the earth to treat any condition or symptom. All of these things are actually fairly easy and cheap to test and explore.
>
> Worst case scenario...you may need a med or two for longterm or forever...but you can likely do 1/4 or 1/2 of customary doses with the aid of other supplements that strengthen your body and mind and address the symptoms.
>
> My own opinion is that anyone contemplating getting off longterm meds should do the following:
>
> 1. Go at a very slow pace...tiny steps down in dosage spread out over months.
> 2. Begin those new food choices and activities.
> 3. Recruit an Integrative MD on your team, as he/she will have good ideas to help supplement your weaning process, guidance on supplements during and after weaning, and a general view of the mind being an extension of the whole body, not just a separate entity. What happens in the body directly affects the mind. Integrative MDs prefer to use natural supplements to allow the body to do its own good work and healing, but can also prescribe appropriate meds when needed.
>
>I remember a couple of years ago....two isolated events that have a common thread, that might be worth mentioning here.... The first:
I went on vacation with the family down to the Beach...I decided to stop taking my Anti-Depressant so that I could "experience the feelings of vacation without the emotional blunting of the Medication"
To compensate...I doubled, even tripled my dose of Xanax for that week.
And it WORKED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I had a great vacation....and felt no panic, no agoraphobia and no trouble sleeping.
I decided to continue just taking the Benzo when I got home..at a reduced dosage. I figured since I went 8 days without my AD....I might as well stay off of it.
About 2 days back into normal life.....*BAM!*
I went into a deep depression.
Back on the AD I went...and in about a week, life was tolerable again.Another time I decided to stop taking my AD...I was suffering through for about a month or two...while taking ST John's Wart instead of 100mgs of Zoloft I was previously taking. It didnt seem to be working, and in fact I was growing more depressed.
One of my best friends, who is familiar with Depression and anxiety made this statement as we were in the local Pharmacy picking up another bottle of St John's Wart........"BF....you have been taking that for 2 months and its not working
YOU ARE TRYING TO FIGHT A WAR WITH A Fly Swatter, WHAT YOU NEED IS A NUCLEAR BOMB"...we both laughed at his statement...but it "clicked" in my head.
I renewed my script for Zoloft and within a week I was back to being able to function.BF
Posted by Meltingpot on October 21, 2009, at 7:12:02
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by bleauberry on October 20, 2009, at 17:18:03
Bleuberry,
I know we are not supposed to say anything derogatory about another persons opinions and I know you are a very intelligent person and I know that I am going to get barred for saying this sometimes I think you talk utter crap.
The only thing I agree with you on is in relation to thyroid problems and Adrenal problems.
Since when has anybody gone from feeling suicidally depressed and anxious and then had their fillings removed and suddenly felt right again?!!! Since when has anybody gone from feeling suicidally depressed and anxiety and then switched to the Atkins diet and felt ok again?.
It's great that you have been off medication for three years but I think that the fact that you are off them and are not looking for the nearest exit route suggests that you are not that bad.
Maybe you would say that you are able to manage without medication because you have changed your diet, removed your amalgram fillings and copper pipes from your house and have taken one of the herbs that you have listed but all I can say then is a) that your diet must have been absolutely awful before and b) you are getting some kind of placebo affect from the alternative meds (they do jack sh*t for me) or maybe I'm just jealous.
But I had to respond because I often get angry when I read your posts and I always have to bite my tongue (in this case fingers).
Denise
Posted by bulldog2 on October 21, 2009, at 9:27:55
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by Meltingpot on October 21, 2009, at 7:12:02
> Bleuberry,
>
> I know we are not supposed to say anything derogatory about another persons opinions and I know you are a very intelligent person and I know that I am going to get barred for saying this sometimes I think you talk utter crap.
>
> The only thing I agree with you on is in relation to thyroid problems and Adrenal problems.
>
> Since when has anybody gone from feeling suicidally depressed and anxious and then had their fillings removed and suddenly felt right again?!!! Since when has anybody gone from feeling suicidally depressed and anxiety and then switched to the Atkins diet and felt ok again?.
>
> It's great that you have been off medication for three years but I think that the fact that you are off them and are not looking for the nearest exit route suggests that you are not that bad.
>
> Maybe you would say that you are able to manage without medication because you have changed your diet, removed your amalgram fillings and copper pipes from your house and have taken one of the herbs that you have listed but all I can say then is a) that your diet must have been absolutely awful before and b) you are getting some kind of placebo affect from the alternative meds (they do jack sh*t for me) or maybe I'm just jealous.
>
> But I had to respond because I often get angry when I read your posts and I always have to bite my tongue (in this case fingers).
>
>
> Denise
>
>
>
>Denise
I guess I am going to be barred along with you as I agree with you post. You had the courage to say what I wouldn't say.
By the way over the past year Bleauberry has mentioned trying different ad's and stopping them because of sides I guess. So I guess he is not in remission if he is still trying ad's.
I agree that one should eat the best diet they have time to prepare and exercise. This is only common sense.
On another note I have spent the last 40 years pursuing diet,exercise, vitamins,minerals,amino acids, and many aspects of alternative medicine. I've read books about the latest miracle cures for years. I have spent thousands of dollars on accupuncture,eastern medicine,herbs,lyme's cures etc. Frankly it has not worked. After 40 years I will no longer read any books or spend any more money pursuing the latest theory on how to cure all our health problems.
Some years ago I started going to an alternative health doctor. He told me he had once been on Nardil for depression and it had worked well. Evenetually he married and moved. About a year later I found out that he had fallen into a deep depression and killed himself. This was a shock to me.
If you have years to look and thousands to spend on alternative medicine be my guest. Maybe you'll be luckier than I was. I just don't believe in it any more. To many unsubstantiated claims and often the research is suspect. If I had to do it all over again I would stick with diet and exercise but I would not have done the rest.I just don't believe there are any miracle cures out there.
Posted by bulldog2 on October 21, 2009, at 10:01:54
In reply to Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by Buckeye Fan on October 20, 2009, at 10:18:11
> Just wanting some opinions gang....after 10-15 years of using an AD and a Benzo....is there any hope I could become med free ?
>
> Would my system eventually return to it's pre-med state?
>
> BFI don't think anyone wants to be on meds. I wish I didn't need high blood pressure meds but I'm glad their available to keep my bp under control.
If you want to try living without meds give it a shot. But my advice to you is get back on them asap if you find yourself spiraling back into mental illness. My friend maybe be greatful they work for you and give you a life. How many here are still looking for a combo that will take away their misery and achieve remission. Just some of my thoughts.
Posted by bleauberry on October 21, 2009, at 18:15:35
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by Meltingpot on October 21, 2009, at 7:12:02
> Bleuberry,
>
> I know we are not supposed to say anything derogatory about another persons opinions and I know you are a very intelligent person and I know that I am going to get barred for saying this sometimes I think you talk utter crap....I hope you do not get barred, and I do not see that you said anything derogatory here at all.
>
> The only thing I agree with you on is in relation to thyroid problems and Adrenal problems....I'm sorry abou that. If anyone thinks that thyroid and adrenal are the only things in the body that could go awry and cause mood problems, well, they can certainly make their own choice to believe whatever they want.
>
> Since when has anybody gone from feeling suicidally depressed and anxious and then had their fillings removed and suddenly felt right again?!!! Since when has anybody gone from feeling suicidally depressed and anxiety and then switched to the Atkins diet and felt ok again?.What I find interesting is that usually a few weeks or a few months after I say something here that causes someone else, like you in this case, to blow a gasket, someone else comes along with a link of a scientific study saying the exact thing I said, and all of a sudden it is viewed as the newest greatest discovery. Garbage turns into gold, depending on who says it.
If you don't believe certains things, I can see you attacking the idea, but you don't need to attack the person. Make your case that amalgams don't cause depression, but don't shoot the person who says it does. Shoot the idea not the person. If you can.
It is human natur, I feel, to accept what we want to believe and to turn our nose up at what we don't want to...all completely based on emotion, without a credible unbiased effort at gathering some information first.
>
> It's great that you have been off medication for three years but I think that the fact that you are off them and are not looking for the nearest exit route suggests that you are not that bad.No, chronic late stage Lyme with cork-screw shaped ugly little things drilling holes in your brain and skin is no big deal. Neither are the Babesia worms wiggling around in there. It's not that bad. No big deal. Seriously though, don't try it. Stay away from ticks.
And no, seeing a line named Mercury on a graph...green at the bottom, yellow in the middle, red at the top...with your own line in the middle of the red is no big deal. That line that says lead, the one that is even higher than mercury line, no big deal. Just because those are two of the most toxic substances on the planet and they are hanging out forever in your receptors and glands doesn't mean anything in terms of mood disorders.
>
> Maybe you would say that you are able to manage without medication because you have changed your diet, removed your amalgram fillings and copper pipes from your house and have taken one of the herbs that you have listed but all I can say then is a) that your diet must have been absolutely awful before and b) you are getting some kind of placebo affect from the alternative meds (they do jack sh*t for me) or maybe I'm just jealous.Yeah my diet was aweful...donuts for breakfast, coffee all day, fast food burgers and fries and shakes for lunch, and maybe a half decent dinner because I didn't have to cook it.
I'm not getting a placebo effect from herbs because in fact the opposite happens...the mood altering herbs, just the like mood altering meds, either do not help me or make me worse. I would love to experience a placebo effect, but they have been absent. The mercury and the bugs screw everything up pretty bad.
You have nothing to be jealous of. I'm not in great shape. I am fighting to be in better shape than I am. I know what problems must be tackled head on. Psychiatric meds won't do that. I wish they would. It would be a lot easier. But as we all see ourselves, the psych world isn't any easier. The outcomes are usually not very good in the longrun.
>
> But I had to respond because I often get angry when I read your posts and I always have to bite my tongue (in this case fingers).I don't understand why? Oh well. I would think someone who is ill would want to learn all they can about healing. When someone closes the entire world out so that the only thing in their sight is a psychatric toolbox, it is to me a shame.
>
>
> Denise
>
>
>
>Did I get immemdiate depression relief from my amalgam removal? Unfortunately, no. Do other people? Amazingly, many do. Their stories can be seen in the archives of chelation, thyroid, autism, and adrenal forums. For sure, a vast majority of people do experience noticeable improvement of symptoms rather quickly when amalgams are removed, even without chelation. I wasn't one of them. But then, I didn't know at the time there was more to my story than just amalgams. The amalgams, if anything, had probably weakened me overall enough that other things could take a strong hold than they would have been able to do otherwise.
Can a specific diet really help? In almost every case, yes. There are different kinds of diets. Protein heavy diets for many. Gluten free and/or casseine (dairy) free diets. Carb/plant/fat/low-protein diets (anti-inflammatory, great for Lyme, arthritis, MS, Lupus). What is the expected journey? About 2 months of feeling worse...long story...healing stuff going on...then slow gradual recovery. Benefits are seen in 6 to 12 months. For some people, such as someone gluten sensitive but didn't know it, benefits can come very rapidly.
As far as herbs go, when mood altering herbs don't work for you, it is in my mind a pretty clear indication that something else besides the mind is at fault. In which case a liver herb, circulation herbs, antimicrobial herbs, anti-inflammatory herbs, immune regulating herbs, and adaptogen herbs would be the more likely routes to improved mood than the mood herbs.
Dr Bob's is a place to share information and support. That's what I do. There is a disclaimer that says to not believe everything you read. I say to you, do not listen to anything I have said. Go your own way. In your own time, in your own way, make your own discoveries. In the meantime, when you disagree with knowledge that you don't know anything about, don't attack the person. Attack the knowledge if it is faulty. Show how it is faulty. But please don't attack the person.
Posted by bleauberry on October 21, 2009, at 18:42:04
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality? » Meltingpot, posted by bulldog2 on October 21, 2009, at 9:27:55
> By the way over the past year Bleauberry has mentioned trying different ad's and stopping them because of sides I guess. So I guess he is not in remission if he is still trying ad's.
Did someone say I was in remission? Cool. I didn't know that. In re-reading my posts, I certainly never even came close to claiming that. Where did you get that from? Who made that up?
Trying meds? Definitely. I don't rule anything out. Nothing. It's just that every time I do try a med, it is either: 1)no better than anything else, 2)or worse.
> On another note I have spent the last 40 years pursuing diet,exercise, vitamins,minerals,amino acids, and many aspects of alternative medicine. I've read books about the latest miracle cures for years. I have spent thousands of dollars on accupuncture,eastern medicine,herbs,lyme's cures etc. Frankly it has not worked.....Valiant efforts. I applaud you for that. You are not alone. You are not the only one fighting lifelong illnesses and not getting where you want.
After 40 years I will no longer read any books or spend any more money pursuing the latest theory on how to cure all our health problems.
...I find that a shame. The next book might have been the one. As for theories, I don't like them and never pursue them. There has to be at least some evidence anecdotal or scientific. I don't think anyone should ever give up learning.
>
> Some years ago I started going to an alternative health doctor. He told me he had once been on Nardil for depression and it had worked well. Evenetually he married and moved. About a year later I found out that he had fallen into a deep depression and killed himself. This was a shock to me....If cherry-picking bad outcomes to determine an overall view of something is the strategy, then count me out of that game. My favorite side of the fence is the postive side. There is enough doom and gloom already I don't want to embrace it on purpose.
>
> If you have years to look and thousands to spend on alternative medicine be my guest. Maybe you'll be luckier than I was....Add up the doctor bills, psychiatry bills, and prescription bills from the time you first sought treatment until the time you are in remission...let me know what that total sum is. Since insurance doesn't pay for alternatives, to keep it fair, make sure to include the amounts of your copay as well as what the insurance company pays for you. We want the total cost of treatment regardless of who paid, and of course, the outcome.
I just don't believe in it any more. To many unsubstantiated claims and often the research is suspect.
...Yeah, I saw that in the Paxil research. The studies that were locked away from the FDA because they failed to show any difference from placebo. Actually, most meds have those studies that were not submitted to the FDA. Research does look pretty good when you can cherry pick your best performances and hide the not-so-good ones. Of course, even the good ones leave a lot to be desired. And I recall the suicide cases in Cymbalta where the clinical trial patients did not previously have depression...it was for pain. Granted, our scientific research is probably the best, or second best, in the world. But still, I view everything with a sense of awareness before diving in.
The preferred combination for me includes these three things together: 1)science, 2)experience of the experienced, 3)what my own eyes see.
If I had to do it all over again I would stick with diet and exercise but I would not have done the rest.I just don't believe there are any miracle cures out there.
...I do not believe there are either. Whether it is something like waiting 3 months for Rhodiola to kick in for someone, or in an amalgam case 2 years of grueling chelation, or in a Lyme case 12 months of feeling like death on a wide variety of substances at a total cost of $2000 to $30,000, someone going through the agony of being brought to the edge of death on chemotherapy for weeks and months, or the person finally finding the right psych combo after 2o years, I don't see any miracle cures. I see people fighting for their lives.
The ones that eventually win are the ones that never give up, and keep trying, keep learning, and trying new things.
Posted by bulldog2 on October 21, 2009, at 19:02:04
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by bleauberry on October 21, 2009, at 18:15:35
I've found that alternative medicine is like finding a needle or maybe a couple needles of truth in a haystack of claims that will not bare fruit. If one has years of time and money to find these needles of truth than go on the search for the silver bullet. For most ill people they have neither the time or money to go through the haystack of claims.
I have also found searching through this sea of claims keeps one preoccuppied with one's illness and in some ways makes the situation worse.
Western Medicine does not cure but produces meds that control symptoms that keep us alive and productive and in the case of psych meds often keep us reasonably happy. No this system is not perfect but for the sick person the system in my opinion offers a better option. The results are quicker and most of us just want relief from our pain as fast as possible.
After 40 years of reading books on every new miracle cure I give up. Good nutrition and exercise I believe in. I don't want to look at another book on Lyme's disease, mercury filling and this diet and that diet. Just give me my pill and let me feel better. Makes my life a lot simpler and gives me time to read about other things than the newest silver bullet to save mankind. Personally I believe alternative medicine is infested with quackery and a lot of people out to empty your wallets.
I think when my alternative med doctor committed suicide that was a wake up call. He adopted an eastern philosophy of medicine with herbs acupuncture and the whole deal. He once told me his best response to his depression were his years on Nardil.
Posted by bleauberry on October 21, 2009, at 19:04:21
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by bulldog2 on October 21, 2009, at 10:01:54
I'm confused. Did you not just submit a post claiming years and thousands of dollars on alternative herbs? That means you must know a lot in that area, right?
Here's my confusion. There are a couple herbs that are not only healthy to consume, but also reduce blood pressure with clinical equivalence to prescription meds. Have you tried those? Which ones?
> > Just wanting some opinions gang....after 10-15 years of using an AD and a Benzo....is there any hope I could become med free ?
> >
> > Would my system eventually return to it's pre-med state?
> >
> > BF
>
> I don't think anyone wants to be on meds. I wish I didn't need high blood pressure meds but I'm glad their available to keep my bp under control.
>
> If you want to try living without meds give it a shot. But my advice to you is get back on them asap if you find yourself spiraling back into mental illness. My friend maybe be greatful they work for you and give you a life. How many here are still looking for a combo that will take away their misery and achieve remission. Just some of my thoughts.Everyone's "correct road" is different. For every case where a psychiatric med had a favorable longterm outcome (10-30 years), there are at least as many that did so by stopping psych meds and pursuing other health concerns instead, which in turn fixed the mental problems. Some people need meds for life, even if they don't work great. Some people don't. I personally know one lady who was so psychotic and uncontrolled on meds they had given up hope for her. Today she takes a handful of supplements and is so healthy and bouncy you would never know she had ever been sick in her life. (In this case, Glycine was the magic supplement) For someone else, the miracle story was maybe Effexor. For someone else, someone right here at pbabble, any attempts to do anything different than the steady dose of Nardil results in deterioration. Otherwise, they are extremely well.
Looking ahead 15 years into the future, the one on Glycine is probably still living well, the one on Effexor had poopout years ago and now has a backpack full of med failures. The one who had amalgams removed, did chelation, and did two years of anti-Lyme treatment, still requires a small dose of an AD and a handful of supplements to stay well...a lot of organic damage had been done....bottom line, everyone's road is different.
We are each in charge of our own lives and given the responsible duty to do the best we can with it. My stance is that the psychiatrict toolbox can be stepping stone, a foundation, a cure, or a failure, but no matter what it is for any particular person, it is too narrow in scope to address the entire physiology at hand in whatever mood disorder is in concern, except in the occassional event where it is a longterm cure all by itself.
Posted by Phillipa on October 21, 2009, at 19:42:29
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by bleauberry on October 21, 2009, at 19:04:21
Right now I'm miserable as trying to decide what to do about the osteoporosis. One thing I did was cancel some plastic surgery as the benefits didn't add up. Compromise instead of large forehead scar is laser treatment to sundamaged facial skin. Less much less expensive no anesthesia, no healing time for an already weak antibody body. As did have the chronic lymes, and the thyroid that does not want to stabalize, add the bioidentical hormones for the bone building at lower than prescribed for bringing me to peri menopausal where was and not a good level for a women as when all the side effects occur. Got to google testosterone as that's the bone builder. Add the calcium and D3 1500mg and 800 of D as the bio doc said. Who is a real MD who practiced ob-gyn here for over 30 years and then went a bit alternative. To me this is combining the best of both worlds. I will always need the benzos and guess the silly pathetic dose of 50mg of luvox so what? If it works that's what's important not pleasing traditional doctors. My body my treatment. I do think there is or maybe something to accupuncture as a girl last day of chemo for breast cancer no hair jogging on beach as saw the accupuncturist and wears loops in her ears. My take on this. A blending of all worlds. Love Phillipa ps until got into nursing was always nutritional involved deeply with Shaklee and believed which is also the key. Then brainwashed working in hospitals
Posted by Buckeye Fan on October 22, 2009, at 6:20:18
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by bulldog2 on October 21, 2009, at 10:01:54
> > Just wanting some opinions gang....after 10-15 years of using an AD and a Benzo....is there any hope I could become med free ?
> >
> > Would my system eventually return to it's pre-med state?
> >
> > BF
>
> I don't think anyone wants to be on meds. I wish I didn't need high blood pressure meds but I'm glad their available to keep my bp under control.
Hi Bulldog2, thanks for the reponse
I have heard and used the same reasoning in the past of comparing psych Meds with other Meds. Over the last couple of years after my research, I have begun to question whether or not my using that comparison is valid.
BP Medication clearly has a cause -and-effect for example, as does Aspirin,Antibiotics and of course Insulin.
Psych Meds are different.Most include the phrase- "is THOUGHT to work by inhibiting this or that"..... That phrase and the entire air of uncertianty concerning the operation of these chemicals ( Meds) on our Brain's chemicals....has caused me reason to at least question the validity of comparisons to other much more provable Medications.
Just a thought...........
> If you want to try living without meds give it a shot. But my advice to you is get back on them asap if you find yourself spiraling back into mental illness. My friend maybe be greatful they work for you and give you a life. How many here are still looking for a combo that will take away their misery and achieve remission. Just some of my thoughts.
As I stated in my beginning post....each time I have tried to wean myself off, I have not been able to deal with the side-effects of the withdrawl. You do make a good point though...and you are right, I am thankful that I have found a measure of relief of the symptoms through PMeds.
One of my fears is...will there come a day when they no longer work? Then what ? I know that the experience of many is that the AD stops working after a time...and the person is left to try and find something else that accomplishes the same relief.BF
Posted by Buckeye Fan on October 22, 2009, at 6:43:48
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by bleauberry on October 21, 2009, at 19:04:21
Bleauberry, you wrote:
"Did I get immemdiate depression relief from my amalgam removal? Unfortunately, no. Do other people? Amazingly, many do. Their stories can be seen in the archives of chelation, thyroid, autism, and adrenal forums. For sure, a vast majority of people do experience noticeable improvement of symptoms rather quickly when amalgams are removed, even without chelation. I wasn't one of them. But then, I didn't know at the time there was more to my story than just amalgams. The amalgams, if anything, had probably weakened me overall enough that other things could take a strong hold than they would have been able to do otherwise.
Can a specific diet really help? In almost every case, yes. There are different kinds of diets. Protein heavy diets for many. Gluten free and/or casseine (dairy) free diets. Carb/plant/fat/low-protein diets (anti-inflammatory, great for Lyme, arthritis, MS, Lupus). What is the expected journey? About 2 months of feeling worse...long story...healing stuff going on...then slow gradual recovery. Benefits are seen in 6 to 12 months. For some people, such as someone gluten sensitive but didn't know it, benefits can come very rapidly.
As far as herbs go, when mood altering herbs don't work for you, it is in my mind a pretty clear indication that something else besides the mind is at fault. In which case a liver herb, circulation herbs, antimicrobial herbs, anti-inflammatory herbs, immune regulating herbs, and adaptogen herbs would be the more likely routes to improved mood than the mood herbs"
==================================================Thanks for all the info, and for sharing the real life results you have experienced.
The key word here is probabley - BALANCE- in my humble opinion.
As you pointed out....each one's journey is highly individualized. What works for one of us, may not work for another...and visa-versa.
Again ( not wanting to beat a dead horse) but P drugs are different than other more exacting medications.
For example, if you have 100 people with high-blood pressure...an overwhelming percentage approaching 100% WILL react to blood -pressure medication, by experiencing a DROP in their BP after starting treatment. While some of the 100 may beed a slightly different BP Med...ALL will show a measurable drop in blood pressure with the proper med, dose and time.Take the same 100 people and give them a Psych Med...and a much lower percentage will respond with such precise cause-and-effect.
So much more enters into the equation when dealing with our brain, emotions,and such a varied individual backround that we each have lived. The Blood Pressure medicine will work for most people, regardless of Culture, upbringing, enviromental issues, etc....
Not so with the Medications we take for our emotional health.
"Dr Bob's is a place to share information and support. That's what I do. There is a disclaimer that says to not believe everything you read. I say to you, do not listen to anything I have said. Go your own way. In your own time, in your own way, make your own discoveries. In the meantime, when you disagree with knowledge that you don't know anything about, don't attack the person. Attack the knowledge if it is faulty. Show how it is faulty. But please don't attack the person."
==================================================Agreed.
I am thankful for this resource and the input of the hundreds that contribute.
I would suggest that we do keep in mind that we are on this Site because we are all sick and seeking help.
It stands to reason that we are going to be emotional at times in our posts....even passionate ( ...sometimes depending on the mood we are in on any particuliar day ! lol )
Tolerance, understanding and an open mind will probabley help us ALL HELP EACH OTHER..BF
Posted by Buckeye Fan on October 22, 2009, at 6:58:23
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by Buckeye Fan on October 22, 2009, at 6:43:48
I also have a related question to this entire Topic.
It is my understanding that many of the AD's work by inhibiting the re-uptake of certain select
chemicals produced in our Brain. I will use this example, since this is a medication I was on for many years..ZoloftDefinitions of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor on the Web:
an antidepressant drug that acts by blocking the reuptake of serotonin so that more serotonin is available to act on receptors in the brain
===========================================================My question is this.....if our brain naturally gets rid of the serotonin, and we interfere with that by causing it's uptake to be slowed...how can this be healthy ?????
Is there not a good REASON that our bodies are designed to dispel this and other mood altering chemicals? Is this not upsetting the natural balance that was intended to exist in our brains?Im sure this question has been poised before, but I have always wondered about it, so I thought I would ask.
Thanks
BF
Posted by sowhysosad on October 22, 2009, at 8:47:51
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by Buckeye Fan on October 22, 2009, at 6:43:48
> Again ( not wanting to beat a dead horse) but P drugs are different than other more exacting medications.
> For example, if you have 100 people with high-blood pressure...an overwhelming percentage approaching 100% WILL react to blood -pressure medication, by experiencing a DROP in their BP after starting treatment. While some of the 100 may beed a slightly different BP Med...ALL will show a measurable drop in blood pressure with the proper med, dose and time.
>
> Take the same 100 people and give them a Psych Med...and a much lower percentage will respond with such precise cause-and-effect.I think the the issue here that "depression", "anxiety" and "bipolar disorder" are catch-all terms for a huge spectrum of similar disorders with different genetic, biochemical and psychological causes.
It's very convenient for psychiatry and the drug industry to lump them all in together as a handful of conditions, but there are very different things happening under the skin for different people.
Perhaps that would explain why even highly effective psych meds won't work for as large a proportion of people as a blood pressure med.
Posted by bulldog2 on October 22, 2009, at 9:14:45
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by Buckeye Fan on October 22, 2009, at 6:58:23
> I also have a related question to this entire Topic.
>
> It is my understanding that many of the AD's work by inhibiting the re-uptake of certain select
> chemicals produced in our Brain. I will use this example, since this is a medication I was on for many years..Zoloft
>
> Definitions of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor on the Web:
>
> an antidepressant drug that acts by blocking the reuptake of serotonin so that more serotonin is available to act on receptors in the brain
> ===========================================================
>
> My question is this.....if our brain naturally gets rid of the serotonin, and we interfere with that by causing it's uptake to be slowed...how can this be healthy ?????
> Is there not a good REASON that our bodies are designed to dispel this and other mood altering chemicals? Is this not upsetting the natural balance that was intended to exist in our brains?
>
> Im sure this question has been poised before, but I have always wondered about it, so I thought I would ask.
>
> Thanks
> BFI'm not so sure the comparison between a high blood pressure med and a psych med is not valid. The bp med controls symptoms and does not cure. It also does it in a manner that disrupts natural body functions. Often one med does not work and another type of bp med is chosen. Sometimes a combo is needed. Sometimes one stops working and another is needed. Not that much different really than psych meds. Keep tinkering with the body until a desired result is produced. For all I know my bp med may be causing some unknown damage with it's disruption of natural processes to lower my pressure.
The alternative people might say I need to get my body in balance with diet exercise and blah blah blah. Well I've dieted and erercised and my pressure is still high. So I take my meds.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 22, 2009, at 9:29:55
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by bleauberry on October 21, 2009, at 18:15:35
> I know we are not supposed to say anything derogatory about another persons opinions and I know you are a very intelligent person and I know that I am going to get barred for saying this sometimes I think you talk utter crap.
>
> Denise> someone else, like you in this case, [blows] a gasket
>
> And no, seeing a line named Mercury on a graph...green at the bottom, yellow in the middle, red at the top...with your own line in the middle of the red is no big deal. That line that says lead, the one that is even higher than mercury line, no big deal. Just because those are two of the most toxic substances on the planet and they are hanging out forever in your receptors and glands doesn't mean anything in terms of mood disorders.
>
> bleauberryPlease don't be sarcastic or post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're bad people, and I'm sorry if this hurts you.
More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express oneself, including a link to a nice post by Dinah on I-statements, are in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Also, follow-ups regarding alternative treatments should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Alternative.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by bleauberry on October 22, 2009, at 16:17:03
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by Buckeye Fan on October 22, 2009, at 6:58:23
You ask a very good question. I cannot put into words my distrust of reuptake inhibitors, but it is somewhere in the vein of what you said about it not being a natural function. For example, once serotonin is used, some of it gets recycled, some of it breaks down into a metabolite that is also important for mood, and some of it goes to melatonin. We upset several balances when blocking the reuptake pump.
I think my general frown on reuptake inhibitors was born when we started seeing the strange phenomenon of post-ssri syndrome after longterm usage. Of course, it took over a decade before these things started to pop up. It is not a bonafide syndrome by medical standards and has not been researched. But we see it. I can't help but think...again, without explanation or reason...that longterm disruption of the reuptake pump screws up a bunch of other stuff that rely on that flow.
If more serotonin, NE, or DA is needed at the synapse, that is easily accomplished with 5htp, dlpa, or tyrosine.
I do not have the same frown about MAOIs. That's because I know from my own genetic testing and other patients of my doctor that some people have unusually high MAO activity and others have unusually low MAO activity. A longshot hypothesis, but maybe one of the factors determining who is a Type A personality and who is a depressive personality. Manipulating the slowness or fastness of MAO enzymes is not much different than what our own natural genes do. Which makes that whole mechanism a completely different ballgame than reuptake inhibitors, which are not natural functions at all.
But that is just one person's view of an entirely complex topic that is badly lacking in research.
> I also have a related question to this entire Topic.
>
> It is my understanding that many of the AD's work by inhibiting the re-uptake of certain select
> chemicals produced in our Brain. I will use this example, since this is a medication I was on for many years..Zoloft
>
> Definitions of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor on the Web:
>
> an antidepressant drug that acts by blocking the reuptake of serotonin so that more serotonin is available to act on receptors in the brain
> ===========================================================
>
> My question is this.....if our brain naturally gets rid of the serotonin, and we interfere with that by causing it's uptake to be slowed...how can this be healthy ?????
> Is there not a good REASON that our bodies are designed to dispel this and other mood altering chemicals? Is this not upsetting the natural balance that was intended to exist in our brains?
>
> Im sure this question has been poised before, but I have always wondered about it, so I thought I would ask.
>
> Thanks
> BF
Posted by bulldog2 on October 22, 2009, at 19:00:45
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by bleauberry on October 22, 2009, at 16:17:03
> You ask a very good question. I cannot put into words my distrust of reuptake inhibitors, but it is somewhere in the vein of what you said about it not being a natural function. For example, once serotonin is used, some of it gets recycled, some of it breaks down into a metabolite that is also important for mood, and some of it goes to melatonin. We upset several balances when blocking the reuptake pump.
>
> I think my general frown on reuptake inhibitors was born when we started seeing the strange phenomenon of post-ssri syndrome after longterm usage. Of course, it took over a decade before these things started to pop up. It is not a bonafide syndrome by medical standards and has not been researched. But we see it. I can't help but think...again, without explanation or reason...that longterm disruption of the reuptake pump screws up a bunch of other stuff that rely on that flow.
>
> If more serotonin, NE, or DA is needed at the synapse, that is easily accomplished with 5htp, dlpa, or tyrosine.
>
> I do not have the same frown about MAOIs. That's because I know from my own genetic testing and other patients of my doctor that some people have unusually high MAO activity and others have unusually low MAO activity. A longshot hypothesis, but maybe one of the factors determining who is a Type A personality and who is a depressive personality. Manipulating the slowness or fastness of MAO enzymes is not much different than what our own natural genes do. Which makes that whole mechanism a completely different ballgame than reuptake inhibitors, which are not natural functions at all.
>
> But that is just one person's view of an entirely complex topic that is badly lacking in research.
>
> > I also have a related question to this entire Topic.
> >
> > It is my understanding that many of the AD's work by inhibiting the re-uptake of certain select
> > chemicals produced in our Brain. I will use this example, since this is a medication I was on for many years..Zoloft
> >
> > Definitions of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor on the Web:
> >
> > an antidepressant drug that acts by blocking the reuptake of serotonin so that more serotonin is available to act on receptors in the brain
> > ===========================================================
> >
> > My question is this.....if our brain naturally gets rid of the serotonin, and we interfere with that by causing it's uptake to be slowed...how can this be healthy ?????
> > Is there not a good REASON that our bodies are designed to dispel this and other mood altering chemicals? Is this not upsetting the natural balance that was intended to exist in our brains?
> >
> > Im sure this question has been poised before, but I have always wondered about it, so I thought I would ask.
> >
> > Thanks
> > BF
>
>Amino acids need to go through a conversion process to become neurotransmiters. Certain enzymes are needed for that process. The body often becomes tolerant to the excess amino acids after only a couple weeks so that does not work.
You say you do not trust reuptake inhibitors. The old tcas were also reuptake inhibitors so that process is not new with but with the ssris the selectivity of serotonin is.
You mention ST John Wort as a natural alternative. SJW works primarily as a reuptake inhibitor of serotonin. Though it is much weaker than pharmaceuticals.
One has to be careful with herbs. They are also drugs and can be harmful.
I do agree with you on the maois. It would seem that inhibiting mao and making fresh neurotransmitters is a healthier process than inhibiting the reuptake of a specicific neurotransmitters.
> > My question is this.....if our brain naturally gets rid of the serotonin, and we interfere with that by causing it's uptake to be slowed...how can this be healthy ?????
> > Is there not a good REASON that our bodies are designed to dispel this and other mood altering chemicals? Is this not upsetting the natural balance that was intended to exist in our brains?
> >If the natural balance were working correctly than one would not be depressed and there would not be a need for an antidepressant.One could also make the argument that if taking an ssri makes me feel better than is it not correcting an imbalance?
Just some food for thought.
Posted by 49er on October 23, 2009, at 5:17:52
In reply to Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by Buckeye Fan on October 20, 2009, at 10:18:11
> Just wanting some opinions gang....after 10-15 years of using an AD and a Benzo....is there any hope I could become med free ?
>
> Would my system eventually return to it's pre-med state?
>
> BFDarn, why did I have to find this thread when I have to go to work? There is so much I want to say. But let me respond to BF's post.
For those of you not familiar with my story, I started taking psych meds in 95. In 2006, after being concerned about horrendous side effects, including a hearing loss from Remeron, I decided to taper my meds which was then a 4 med psych cocktail.
I mostly tapered at 10% of current dose every 3 to 6 weeks although a few times, I cheated. But BF, if you are going to become med free, tapering slowly is the key. I can't stress that enough.
When you felt severe depression after CTing an antidepressant, that was not proof your illness had returned. The cold turkeying caused severe withdrawal symptoms.
Anyway, I am now down to one med Doxepin at around 4.1mg. My tapering stalled in August due to suffering severe rebound insomnia. It is better but I don't feel stable enough to continue tapering.
I have been able to do this in spite of dealing with adversity such as the death of a family member and job instability. I now have a permanent job.
I also use supplements and a form of self CBT. BF, I am not sure what my pre-medicated state was but I have learned to recognize the thought patterns that got me placed on meds. I am not saying everyone can do this as an FYI.
As far a mainstream docs vs. alternative folks, I don't have use for either as none of them were helpful regarding my insomnia problems. The mainstream folks' solution is more meds while the alternative folks attitude is the same as mainstream folks which is my neurotransmitters need balancing which is bunch of BS in my opinion.
Finally, while this hasn't been easy and there will be withdrawal symptoms even when tapering slowly, I feel so much better. I don't regret my decision at all and feel it is one of the bests I have made in my life.
Gotta run. I will read posts more closely when I have time and I may post more.
49er
Posted by SLS on October 23, 2009, at 5:47:28
In reply to Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by Buckeye Fan on October 20, 2009, at 10:18:11
> Just wanting some opinions gang....after 10-15 years of using an AD and a Benzo....is there any hope I could become med free ?
>
> Would my system eventually return to it's pre-med state?I imagine you will have some people encouraging you to either stop or maintain drug treatment based upon their own experiences or the opinions they have developed over time for various reasons.
I would say that it is possible to discontinue medications and remain well, especially if the medications have been taken for over a year and are tapered gradually. However, there is always the danger that if one goes on to relapse, returning to the same drugs will be rendered ineffective. It is a gamble. However, one can get a better idea of what to bet on based upon their diagnosis and case history.
- What is your current diagnosis or symptom cluster?
- How old were you when your depression emerged?
- How many episodes of depression did you have before starting your current medication regime?
- How long were you continuously depressed for before starting treatment?
- Is there any family history of mental illness?
- Scott
Posted by Buckeye Fan on October 23, 2009, at 7:14:37
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by bleauberry on October 22, 2009, at 16:17:03
Thanks for your thoughts bleauberry....it is nice to know that I am not alone in questioning this process, since the prescribing MD's or PDocs that I have visited never once mentioned, or were able to explain my question.
What we do know for sure....is that SSRI's and SSNI's do improve mood in the vast majority of cases...so that IS good news to the moderate to severely depressed and of course individuals whose depression has worsened to the point of suicide idealization or worse...
I guess the long-term effects and weighing the Benefits vs Risk is an individual decision.
BF
Posted by Buckeye Fan on October 23, 2009, at 7:23:33
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by bulldog2 on October 22, 2009, at 19:00:45
Buldog2 you wrote: "
If the natural balance were working correctly than one would not be depressed and there would not be a need for an antidepressant.One could also make the argument that if taking an ssri makes me feel better than is it not correcting an imbalance?
Just some food for thought.
=============================================================Good point.
Historically speaking....the practice and study of Antidepressants is still in it's infancy.
Depression and Anxiety are as old as man himself.We know that self-medicating with alcohol, cannibus, poppy, etc...has been going on for centuries in one form or another, along with many other methods.
Perhaps in 50 years, are children and grandchildren will look back on today's medicines as primitive and incomplete .....much in the same way we today look upon the invention of the Telegraph compared to the advent of the Internet!
Only time will tell....but at least today's methods of dealing with psychological illness have evolved from some pretty primitive attempts in the past~
BF
Posted by Buckeye Fan on October 23, 2009, at 7:26:59
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality? » Buckeye Fan, posted by 49er on October 23, 2009, at 5:17:52
Thanks 49er...
I appreciate you sharing your story of slow tapering ..and I look forward to your follow-up post(s) as time allows.BF
Posted by Buckeye Fan on October 23, 2009, at 8:11:00
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality? » Buckeye Fan, posted by SLS on October 23, 2009, at 5:47:28
> > Just wanting some opinions gang....after 10-15 years of using an AD and a Benzo....is there any hope I could become med free ?
> >
> > Would my system eventually return to it's pre-med state?
>
> I imagine you will have some people encouraging you to either stop or maintain drug treatment based upon their own experiences or the opinions they have developed over time for various reasons.
>
> I would say that it is possible to discontinue medications and remain well, especially if the medications have been taken for over a year and are tapered gradually. However, there is always the danger that if one goes on to relapse, returning to the same drugs will be rendered ineffective. It is a gamble. =======================================================
Thanks for joining in SLS....
You make a statement I have heard or read several other times during my research, namely...that once a tapered has occurred...and major symptoms return, that THE SAME DRUGS WILL BE RENDERED INEFFECTIVE........any idea WHY this is?
As I stated, I have read this on more than one occassion, but never remember reading an explanation as to why this may occur.
Anyone with knowledge and/or experience on this ....I would welcome your input...
However, one can get a better idea of what to bet on based upon their diagnosis and case history.
=======================================================================
Since this is a sharing, helping website and resource...I would like to answer your questions that I might get some opinions on my personal options.
>> - What is your current diagnosis or symptom cluster?
MY CURRENT SYMPTOM IS DEPRESSION....and was diagnosed by a PDoc as moderately to severely depressed.
He switched my medication from 200mg's of Zoloft, to 50 mg's of Pristiq.
I had been on Zoloft since the late 1990's...but over the period between Nov 2008 and July 2009...my mood steadily worsened, and it seemed the Zoloft was no longer effective.>
> - How old were you when your depression emerged?
In hindsight...I guess I had a few episodes of depression as a child, I was always anxious, coming from an alcoholic environment in childhood
so I would have to say ANXIETY was the hallmark of my emotional life since those early years.To the best of my recollection, I had my first Major Depressive Episode as a Senior in High School....then another 4 years later while in College. This episode was accompanied by my first full-blown Panic Attack.
I sought no treatment...and gradually came out of the depression in time ( many months...close to a year and a half later)I then had a major depression free period for the next 8 years. I cannot explain why...I just know that the several isolated incidents in my past never came to my mind, I knew very little ( almost nothing) about depression back then...nor that my extreme anxiety was not "normal" )
Then about 15 years ago I had a series of Panic Attacks, and sleep disturbances that grew increasingly worse.....causing me to seek treatment. First with Xanax...and then a couple years later Zoloft was added to the mix.>
> - How many episodes of depression did you have before starting your current medication regime?A continual and worsening depression for 9 months
How long were you continuously depressed for before starting treatment?About 9 months.....
> - Is there any family history of mental illness?
Yes.....though undiagnosed.
My father was adopted...so I have 50% of my medical past a mystery. I do remember that he self-medicated with alcohol, was pretty insecure antisocial and withdrawn.On my Mother's side...I have been able to see in her ( she is still living) a definite pattern of mood swings, depression, all untreated since she gives no credibility to mental illness treatment
She is "Old School" in her thinking, and was raised with 10 siblings in an alcoholic family.
ased on my observaton over the years of her and her siblings....there is indeed a history of mental illness in our family line.>
> - ScottWow...that is the first time I have put all that down in writing.
It would appear that I have inherited a genetic pre disposition to depression and anxiety.
So the question is....can I become Med Free now..after being on Meds for roughly HALF of my adult life.BF
Posted by bulldog2 on October 23, 2009, at 9:47:43
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by Buckeye Fan on October 23, 2009, at 8:11:00
> > > Just wanting some opinions gang....after 10-15 years of using an AD and a Benzo....is there any hope I could become med free ?
> > >
> > > Would my system eventually return to it's pre-med state?
> >
> > I imagine you will have some people encouraging you to either stop or maintain drug treatment based upon their own experiences or the opinions they have developed over time for various reasons.
> >
> > I would say that it is possible to discontinue medications and remain well, especially if the medications have been taken for over a year and are tapered gradually. However, there is always the danger that if one goes on to relapse, returning to the same drugs will be rendered ineffective. It is a gamble. =======================================================
>
>
> Thanks for joining in SLS....
> You make a statement I have heard or read several other times during my research, namely...that once a tapered has occurred...and major symptoms return, that THE SAME DRUGS WILL BE RENDERED INEFFECTIVE........any idea WHY this is?
> As I stated, I have read this on more than one occassion, but never remember reading an explanation as to why this may occur.
> Anyone with knowledge and/or experience on this ....I would welcome your input...
>
>
>
>
> However, one can get a better idea of what to bet on based upon their diagnosis and case history.
> =======================================================================
>
>
> Since this is a sharing, helping website and resource...I would like to answer your questions that I might get some opinions on my personal options.
> >
>
> > - What is your current diagnosis or symptom cluster?
>
>
> MY CURRENT SYMPTOM IS DEPRESSION....and was diagnosed by a PDoc as moderately to severely depressed.
> He switched my medication from 200mg's of Zoloft, to 50 mg's of Pristiq.
> I had been on Zoloft since the late 1990's...but over the period between Nov 2008 and July 2009...my mood steadily worsened, and it seemed the Zoloft was no longer effective.
>
>
>
> >
> > - How old were you when your depression emerged?
>
>
>
>
> In hindsight...I guess I had a few episodes of depression as a child, I was always anxious, coming from an alcoholic environment in childhood
> so I would have to say ANXIETY was the hallmark of my emotional life since those early years.
>
> To the best of my recollection, I had my first Major Depressive Episode as a Senior in High School....then another 4 years later while in College. This episode was accompanied by my first full-blown Panic Attack.
> I sought no treatment...and gradually came out of the depression in time ( many months...close to a year and a half later)
>
> I then had a major depression free period for the next 8 years. I cannot explain why...I just know that the several isolated incidents in my past never came to my mind, I knew very little ( almost nothing) about depression back then...nor that my extreme anxiety was not "normal" )
>
>
> Then about 15 years ago I had a series of Panic Attacks, and sleep disturbances that grew increasingly worse.....causing me to seek treatment. First with Xanax...and then a couple years later Zoloft was added to the mix.
>
>
>
> >
> > - How many episodes of depression did you have before starting your current medication regime?
>
>
>
> A continual and worsening depression for 9 months
>
>
>
>
> How long were you continuously depressed for before starting treatment?
>
>
>
> About 9 months.....
>
>
>
>
>
> > - Is there any family history of mental illness?
>
>
>
> Yes.....though undiagnosed.
> My father was adopted...so I have 50% of my medical past a mystery. I do remember that he self-medicated with alcohol, was pretty insecure antisocial and withdrawn.
>
> On my Mother's side...I have been able to see in her ( she is still living) a definite pattern of mood swings, depression, all untreated since she gives no credibility to mental illness treatment
> She is "Old School" in her thinking, and was raised with 10 siblings in an alcoholic family.
> ased on my observaton over the years of her and her siblings....there is indeed a history of mental illness in our family line.
>
>
>
> >
> > - Scott
>
>
>
> Wow...that is the first time I have put all that down in writing.
> It would appear that I have inherited a genetic pre disposition to depression and anxiety.
> So the question is....can I become Med Free now..after being on Meds for roughly HALF of my adult life.
>
> BF
>
>
>I won't contribute any more to the alt med versus main stream med debate. Unfortunately it would seem from your history that you have a greater probablity to fall out of remission once off of meds than one who has fallen ill more later in their life due to a situation. I also have a genetic predisposition plus early traumatic experiences. I was drug free many times in my life but did pay the price of suffering depression, anxiety and panic attacks during those periods. I was hoping diet and exercise would cure me. It did not. I was looking for answers in alternative medicine. I did not find those answers.
Posted by bulldog2 on October 23, 2009, at 9:58:26
In reply to Re: Is Becoming Med Free a Reality?, posted by bulldog2 on October 23, 2009, at 9:47:43
> > > > Just wanting some opinions gang....after 10-15 years of using an AD and a Benzo....is there any hope I could become med free ?
> > > >
> > > > Would my system eventually return to it's pre-med state?
> > >
> > > I imagine you will have some people encouraging you to either stop or maintain drug treatment based upon their own experiences or the opinions they have developed over time for various reasons.
> > >
> > > I would say that it is possible to discontinue medications and remain well, especially if the medications have been taken for over a year and are tapered gradually. However, there is always the danger that if one goes on to relapse, returning to the same drugs will be rendered ineffective. It is a gamble. =======================================================
> >
> >
> > Thanks for joining in SLS....
> > You make a statement I have heard or read several other times during my research, namely...that once a tapered has occurred...and major symptoms return, that THE SAME DRUGS WILL BE RENDERED INEFFECTIVE........any idea WHY this is?
> > As I stated, I have read this on more than one occassion, but never remember reading an explanation as to why this may occur.
> > Anyone with knowledge and/or experience on this ....I would welcome your input...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > However, one can get a better idea of what to bet on based upon their diagnosis and case history.
> > =======================================================================
> >
> >
> > Since this is a sharing, helping website and resource...I would like to answer your questions that I might get some opinions on my personal options.
> > >
> >
> > > - What is your current diagnosis or symptom cluster?
> >
> >
> > MY CURRENT SYMPTOM IS DEPRESSION....and was diagnosed by a PDoc as moderately to severely depressed.
> > He switched my medication from 200mg's of Zoloft, to 50 mg's of Pristiq.
> > I had been on Zoloft since the late 1990's...but over the period between Nov 2008 and July 2009...my mood steadily worsened, and it seemed the Zoloft was no longer effective.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > - How old were you when your depression emerged?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In hindsight...I guess I had a few episodes of depression as a child, I was always anxious, coming from an alcoholic environment in childhood
> > so I would have to say ANXIETY was the hallmark of my emotional life since those early years.
> >
> > To the best of my recollection, I had my first Major Depressive Episode as a Senior in High School....then another 4 years later while in College. This episode was accompanied by my first full-blown Panic Attack.
> > I sought no treatment...and gradually came out of the depression in time ( many months...close to a year and a half later)
> >
> > I then had a major depression free period for the next 8 years. I cannot explain why...I just know that the several isolated incidents in my past never came to my mind, I knew very little ( almost nothing) about depression back then...nor that my extreme anxiety was not "normal" )
> >
> >
> > Then about 15 years ago I had a series of Panic Attacks, and sleep disturbances that grew increasingly worse.....causing me to seek treatment. First with Xanax...and then a couple years later Zoloft was added to the mix.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > - How many episodes of depression did you have before starting your current medication regime?
> >
> >
> >
> > A continual and worsening depression for 9 months
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > How long were you continuously depressed for before starting treatment?
> >
> >
> >
> > About 9 months.....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > - Is there any family history of mental illness?
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes.....though undiagnosed.
> > My father was adopted...so I have 50% of my medical past a mystery. I do remember that he self-medicated with alcohol, was pretty insecure antisocial and withdrawn.
> >
> > On my Mother's side...I have been able to see in her ( she is still living) a definite pattern of mood swings, depression, all untreated since she gives no credibility to mental illness treatment
> > She is "Old School" in her thinking, and was raised with 10 siblings in an alcoholic family.
> > ased on my observaton over the years of her and her siblings....there is indeed a history of mental illness in our family line.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> >
> >
> > Wow...that is the first time I have put all that down in writing.
> > It would appear that I have inherited a genetic pre disposition to depression and anxiety.
> > So the question is....can I become Med Free now..after being on Meds for roughly HALF of my adult life.
> >
> > BF
> >
> >
> >
>
> I won't contribute any more to the alt med versus main stream med debate. Unfortunately it would seem from your history that you have a greater probablity to fall out of remission once off of meds than one who has fallen ill more later in their life due to a situation. I also have a genetic predisposition plus early traumatic experiences. I was drug free many times in my life but did pay the price of suffering depression, anxiety and panic attacks during those periods. I was hoping diet and exercise would cure me. It did not. I was looking for answers in alternative medicine. I did not find those answers.Oh but I did usually self medicate during those drug free periods (doc prescribed psych meds). I used darvon as my ad for nearly 15 years.
From my experience when history and genetics expressed early as mental illness the chances are good that when off meds you will have periods where you fall ill. Not necessarily all the time.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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