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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by uncouth on October 13, 2009, at 16:57:58
Hi,
I'm BP2, and have been on a variety of AP in the past as augmenting agents for the depression and to help with mood stabilization. Abilify, Seroquel (briefly, put me to sleep), Geodon, and most recently Zyprexa.
Zyprexa has been the only one that actually feels like its doing something - and something significant. 5mg killed the obsessional ruminations, suicidal thoughts, deep despair unlike anything else.
Anyone have any theories for the differential response I'm getting? Im mad i wasn't put on Zyprexa 2 years ago...my life would have been so different.
Posted by bleauberry on October 13, 2009, at 18:32:43
In reply to Zyprexa vs. All other Antipsychotics, posted by uncouth on October 13, 2009, at 16:57:58
Studies show that Zyprexa by itself increases NE and DA significantly, while having negligible effect on serotonin. When combined with SSRIs, it generally increases NE and DA significantly more than by itself, and serotonin just a little bit more than the SSRI by itself. It varies depending on the other med. With Zoloft it increased only DA. Other comparitive APs made similar changes, but not as dramatic as Zyprexa did.
Who knows. It's all theory. I personally believe Zyprexa is the best of the bunch, with maybe Abilify being the second best. Sometimes vica versa. While the others can be miracles for a small percentage of people, their track records don't appear to be in the same class as Zyprexa. It is in a class of its own.
Posted by ricker on October 13, 2009, at 19:54:12
In reply to Zyprexa vs. All other Antipsychotics, posted by uncouth on October 13, 2009, at 16:57:58
Same goes for me...zyprexa works better than the others. I felt irritable on seroquel. My p/doc states it's his #1 prescribed atypical due to it's smooth action.
I've been taking it for several month's now at 5mg but recently increased to 10mg as I feel a slip in my mood.
I'm also taking lamictal and zoloft with it but am switching the zoloft for lexapro starting tomorrow. The zoloft seems to be causing some "kindling" so it's time for a change.
Good luck with the zyprexa!!!!Regards, Rick
Posted by uncouth on October 13, 2009, at 20:00:57
In reply to Re: Zyprexa vs. All other Antipsychotics, posted by bleauberry on October 13, 2009, at 18:32:43
I thought APs acted by decreasing dopamine? If zyprexa increases all SE NE and DA then how does it exert its stabilization effects?
If I went up from 5 to 10, would I feel more "flat" or would it improve depression wise? and is the weight gain appetitie increase dose related?
Posted by ricker on October 13, 2009, at 20:09:55
In reply to Re: Zyprexa vs. All other Antipsychotics, posted by uncouth on October 13, 2009, at 20:00:57
> I thought APs acted by decreasing dopamine? If zyprexa increases all SE NE and DA then how does it exert its stabilization effects?
>Sorry, don't know?
> If I went up from 5 to 10, would I feel more "flat" or would it improve depression wise? and is the weight gain appetitie increase dose related?
Yes, I felt somewhat lethargic at 10mg, hence the lamictal at 100mg. The 2 seem to work well together for me. I find lamictal a bit too stimulating so the 2 kinda counter each other in terms of lethargy/stimulation? My theory anyway :)
Posted by Phillipa on October 13, 2009, at 22:08:56
In reply to Re: Zyprexa vs. All other Antipsychotics, posted by ricker on October 13, 2009, at 20:09:55
I"ve read repeatedly on this board that zyprexa is really good for suicidal depression. Uncouth so glad you found it!!!!!! Phillipa
Posted by Meltingpot on October 15, 2009, at 17:47:12
In reply to Zyprexa vs. All other Antipsychotics, posted by uncouth on October 13, 2009, at 16:57:58
Hi,
I've only ever taken Zyprexa so can't comment on the others but I have to say that 10mg Zyprexa has always been an absolute God Send when my anxiety and suicidal thoughts have been out of control. I mean when I feel I can't even try and pretend to be in control. For instance when I've been at work and can't sit still at my desk because I'm so anxious and when all I can do is just keep walking about and going outside and smoking and then back in and then back out again and the suicidal thoughts are pretty constant.
However, when I take Zyprexa when I'm just depressed without the anxiety (and without antidepressants) it has a really flattening effect which I don't like. I took 10mg of Zyprexa about a week ago (I'm not currently taking anything else) and all it did was send me straight to sleep and then the weekend I tried going out for a quick drink with a friend and I couldn't even be bothered to make conversation. It was a real effort, I was glad to get home. I'm depressed anyway but I sort of felt as though the Zyprexa (although calming) had a negative affect in that instance.
I'm interested to know myself how Zyprexa compares with Abilify.
Denise
Posted by Zyprexa on October 16, 2009, at 0:50:47
In reply to Zyprexa vs. All other Antipsychotics, posted by uncouth on October 13, 2009, at 16:57:58
I'm mad they didn't put me on zyprexa before they put me into the hospital for a year.
Its true for me none of the others work, except for perphenazine, but its not quite the goodness of zyprexa. I've tried abilify, made me worse; geodon, didn't realy do anything, and was on an insanly high dose; risperdal, holucination city; think they gave me haldol in hospital and it gave me NMS. Never tried seroquel.
Posted by Zyprexa on October 16, 2009, at 0:55:14
In reply to Re: Zyprexa vs. All other Antipsychotics, posted by uncouth on October 13, 2009, at 20:00:57
Appatite is dose related. So is sedation.
Posted by Zyprexa on October 16, 2009, at 1:00:30
In reply to Re: Zyprexa vs. All other Antipsychotics, posted by Meltingpot on October 15, 2009, at 17:47:12
I have the same anti social tendencies with zyprexa.
Posted by theconfusedone on October 19, 2009, at 0:15:17
In reply to Re: Zyprexa vs. All other Antipsychotics » Meltingpot, posted by Zyprexa on October 16, 2009, at 1:00:30
Hi there, it's nearly two weeks since I started on 2.5mgs zyprexa and tapering down from 40mgs of lexapro to 20mgs of which I've been on for nearly 5 years and have stopped working for some reason.
I dont know how these actually work, but I have a mild sedated feeling for the first few hours after taking them accompanied by a ravishing hunger but I have been getting some serious bouts of anger which is something I wouldn't normally get..It may be that for once I'm able to speak my mind without the anxious feelings that have always stopped me and it's not going down to well with the person involved.
I really feel that the strength I've been put on of the zyprexa is not quite enough as a few hours later I'm a crumbling mess again. I really do feel great benefit from them for my anxiety and suicidal thoughts.
Posted by Zyprexa on October 20, 2009, at 13:31:46
In reply to Re: Zyprexa vs. All other Antipsychotics, posted by theconfusedone on October 19, 2009, at 0:15:17
2.5mg zyprexa is the lowest dose. You should try a higher dose probably 10mg or 7.5mg. The anger is probably from the decrease in lexapro. And the dose of zyprexa is not high enough. Zyprexa will make you hungry and sedated. What time do you take the zyprexa? The best time is before bed. This way the hunger is when you sleep. Do try to control the hunger, it can lead to weight gain. Zyprexa is notorious for this. The only reason to take it during the day would be to get maximum benifit from the low dose. There are meds you can take with the zyprexa to wake you up during the day. I take wellbutrin sr for this. Also when you get to a higher dose check you blood sugar, zyprexa can make it high. Zyprexa is a great med, you just need a higher dose. Zyprexa will get rid of the anger at an apropriate dose. It should also get rid of anxiety and suicidal thoughts.
Posted by theconfusedone on October 21, 2009, at 20:26:40
In reply to Re: Zyprexa vs. All other Antipsychotics » theconfusedone, posted by Zyprexa on October 20, 2009, at 13:31:46
> 2.5mg zyprexa is the lowest dose. You should try a higher dose probably 10mg or 7.5mg. The anger is probably from the decrease in lexapro. And the dose of zyprexa is not high enough. Zyprexa will make you hungry and sedated. What time do you take the zyprexa? The best time is before bed. This way the hunger is when you sleep. Do try to control the hunger, it can lead to weight gain. Zyprexa is notorious for this. The only reason to take it during the day would be to get maximum benifit from the low dose. There are meds you can take with the zyprexa to wake you up during the day. I take wellbutrin sr for this. Also when you get to a higher dose check you blood sugar, zyprexa can make it high. Zyprexa is a great med, you just need a higher dose. Zyprexa will get rid of the anger at an apropriate dose. It should also get rid of anxiety and suicidal thoughts.
Hi and thanks for the reply, I am now up to 5mgs of zyprexa and down to 20mgs of lexapro every second day, I take my zyprexa in the morning but I do feel later in the I could do with another as it does seem to semi sedate me,I had quite a strange day today and I took 10mgs which made me sleep most of the evening. I do find it's working and I do agree that I probably need to go to 10mgs of zyprexa.
I think my doc will up it as I go along while tapering me off the lexapro completely as I think it has stopped working. Thanks for advice re weight gain and sugar levels.. Going to see psch next week and I'll see will he up it again as it is making life a little easier...
Posted by uncouth on October 21, 2009, at 20:46:50
In reply to Re: Zyprexa vs. All other Antipsychotics » Zyprexa, posted by theconfusedone on October 21, 2009, at 20:26:40
Follow-up question:
Does anyone know if the zyprexa weight gain is dose related? I'm just having a terrible time, even at 5mg. Maybe 2.5 mg will be better? Yes/No?
Posted by Meltingpot on October 22, 2009, at 5:25:20
In reply to Re: Zyprexa vs. All other Antipsychotics, posted by theconfusedone on October 19, 2009, at 0:15:17
Hi,
I just wanted to say that my experience with Zyprexa is that it is great for taking away the physical feelings of anxiety and subsequent suicidal thoughts. For instance I felt totally crap yesterday morning, I felt like I had this pressure in my chest and head that wouldn't go away no matter what I did and my thoughts became solely focused on suicide to make the feelings go away. I think also though mixed in with the anxiety are these intense feelings of anger and irritability. I think after taking the Zyprexa although the physical symptoms go away the emotions are still there to some degree.
Today although I'm feeling much better physically (energy wise and mood to some degree) it doesn't take much to make me fly off the handle.
I'm glad the Zyprexa is helping you because the physical feelings of constant anxiety are hell. I also want to add that years ago when I started trying antidepressants again and they wouldn't work and exacerbated the anxiety I needed to take 10mg of Zyprexa, there is no way 2.5mg would have worked. So perhaps you could start of high and then slowly decrease the dose.
I'm like you Seroxat worked for me for about 2 years and then stopped in that the physical feelings of anxiety and depression came back. For the two years I was feeling better on seroxat, I started having piano lessons, started going out socialising, going on holidays etc. I'd swap 20 years of feeling like this for those two years any day.
Also, re the Zyprexa you should definately take it in the evening as it will just send you to sleep during the day.
Denise
Posted by theconfusedone on October 23, 2009, at 21:49:02
In reply to the Confused one., posted by Meltingpot on October 22, 2009, at 5:25:20
> Hi,
>
> I just wanted to say that my experience with Zyprexa is that it is great for taking away the physical feelings of anxiety and subsequent suicidal thoughts. For instance I felt totally crap yesterday morning, I felt like I had this pressure in my chest and head that wouldn't go away no matter what I did and my thoughts became solely focused on suicide to make the feelings go away. I think also though mixed in with the anxiety are these intense feelings of anger and irritability. I think after taking the Zyprexa although the physical symptoms go away the emotions are still there to some degree.
>
> Today although I'm feeling much better physically (energy wise and mood to some degree) it doesn't take much to make me fly off the handle.
>
> I'm glad the Zyprexa is helping you because the physical feelings of constant anxiety are hell. I also want to add that years ago when I started trying antidepressants again and they wouldn't work and exacerbated the anxiety I needed to take 10mg of Zyprexa, there is no way 2.5mg would have worked. So perhaps you could start of high and then slowly decrease the dose.
>
> I'm like you Seroxat worked for me for about 2 years and then stopped in that the physical feelings of anxiety and depression came back. For the two years I was feeling better on seroxat, I started having piano lessons, started going out socialising, going on holidays etc. I'd swap 20 years of feeling like this for those two years any day.
>
> Also, re the Zyprexa you should definately take it in the evening as it will just send you to sleep during the day.
>
>
> Denise
Hi Denise, i just want to give you a brief description of what I've been taking. I was on 20mgs of lexapro for 4and a half years and doing fairly alright til I tapered down very slowly to nothing as I thought it was affecting my memory but little did I think my memory would get worse so I went back on them and all to no avail.
MY ANXIETY JUST SEEMED TO GET WORSE AND WOrse accompanied by depression,labido probblems etc. My psch put me on seroxet which causeed havoc to my brain and blood pressure and I really felt like taking my own life but they are gone out of my system now.(thankfully) Just left with lots of lexapro20mgs every second day..(I'm just waiting for the brain zaps which happen everyday as I think the doc is reducing them very quickly. I might just do it my way and taper to 15mg lexapro for a while untill he increase the Zirexa. Which hopefully will be in two weeks time.I have also decided to double the dose of the 5mgs that he told me take which will leave me short come the end of the month but should be enough to get to the shrink on the 27th and I try and get him to up them. They do really work but I feel I have to take them in the day to get the benefit or is this a psychological thing. I also have other addiction probablems with alchol and zanax which I've been clean for the last 4 and a half years with one minor slip in between. My Doc is the only understandin person and he changed this without the Shrink tellig him but the reality i my shrink doesn't give a damn..I'm also on zimovane7.5mg x 2 for sleep but they are not that great.sorry for the lenthy reply.
The confused one..
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