Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 913808

Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Anyone tried this?

Posted by tensor on August 24, 2009, at 4:29:08

Has anyone tried this approach, if so, was it successful? I wonder if it would work with Trileptal instead.

http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/xanaxbusters1.htm

/Mattias

 

Re: Anyone tried this? tensor

Posted by yxibow on August 24, 2009, at 6:47:02

In reply to Anyone tried this?, posted by tensor on August 24, 2009, at 4:29:08

> Has anyone tried this approach, if so, was it successful? I wonder if it would work with Trileptal instead.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/xanaxbusters1.htm
>
> /Mattias


Oh goodness, not another Ashton website... well, everyone is entitled to their opinion.


And endangering someone needlessly by introducing another agent just to help what is perfectly capable by current accepted evidence based psychiatry, a regular reduction plan, adding Tegretol which has DANGERS associated with it that the Xanax that will still be there in the morning if you can't taper 10% a week off of it properly doesnt have.

-- Jay

 

Re: Anyone tried this? tensor

Posted by SLS on August 24, 2009, at 7:29:34

In reply to Anyone tried this?, posted by tensor on August 24, 2009, at 4:29:08

> Has anyone tried this approach, if so, was it successful? I wonder if it would work with Trileptal instead.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/xanaxbusters1.htm
>
> /Mattias


As people probably know by now, I developed a kindling model for benzodiazepine and SRI withdrawal several years ago. The implication of the theory is that certain AEDs could make coming off of these drugs easier and protect against developing future sensitivities to them. At this point, I believe that Trileptal may be the best AED to use for benzodiazepine withdrawal.

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/wdrawl/20050214/msgs/460726.html


- Scott

 

Re: Anyone tried this? yxibow

Posted by tensor on August 24, 2009, at 8:32:13

In reply to Re: Anyone tried this? tensor, posted by yxibow on August 24, 2009, at 6:47:02

> Oh goodness, not another Ashton website... well, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
>
>
> And endangering someone needlessly by introducing another agent just to help what is perfectly capable by current accepted evidence based psychiatry, a regular reduction plan, adding Tegretol which has DANGERS associated with it that the Xanax that will still be there in the morning if you can't taper 10% a week off of it properly doesnt have.
>
>
>
> -- Jay

I think what you write is rubbish. If a person has difficulties coming off Xanax I think it's a viable option using another agent. Pretty much as you often give anxious patients initiating an SSRI a benzo just to cope with the initial anxiety, although benzos have DANGERS associated with them.

/Mattias

 

Re: Anyone tried this? tensor

Posted by Phillipa on August 24, 2009, at 9:42:15

In reply to Re: Anyone tried this? yxibow, posted by tensor on August 24, 2009, at 8:32:13

IF you don't increase the amounts of benzos over a long time what are the dangers? Phillipa

 

Re: Anyone tried this? tensor

Posted by Maxime on August 24, 2009, at 12:50:30

In reply to Anyone tried this?, posted by tensor on August 24, 2009, at 4:29:08

I came off of 4 mg of clonazepam in the hospital last year cold turkey. They added 200 mg of Seroquel. I suffered no withdrawal effects from the clonazepam. I suspect trileptal would do the same thing as the Seroquel. Best of luck to you.

 

Re: Anyone tried this? Maxime

Posted by tensor on August 24, 2009, at 15:26:02

In reply to Re: Anyone tried this? tensor, posted by Maxime on August 24, 2009, at 12:50:30

> I came off of 4 mg of clonazepam in the hospital last year cold turkey. They added 200 mg of Seroquel. I suffered no withdrawal effects from the clonazepam. I suspect trileptal would do the same thing as the Seroquel. Best of luck to you.

Interesting, I'm currently at 1.75mg clon, tapering slowly. I tried once before and came down to 1mg but the symtpoms (social phobia) returned and I wasn't prepared enough so I went back to 2mg. Hopefully I won't need to add Trileptal, but if that's what it takes, I'll do it.

Thanks,
Mattias

 

Re: Anyone tried this?

Posted by SLS on August 24, 2009, at 15:47:28

In reply to Re: Anyone tried this? Maxime, posted by tensor on August 24, 2009, at 15:26:02

: Am J Drug Alcohol Abuse. 2008;34(5):534-40.Click here to read Links
Oxcarbazepine in rapid benzodiazepine detoxification.
Croissant B, Grosshans M, Diehl A, Mann K.

Department of Psychiatry, Psychotherapy and Psychosomatics, Teaching Hospital Sigmaringen, University of Tuebingen, Sigmaringen, Germany. b.croissant@klksig.de

OBJECTIVE: This study aims at evaluating the tolerability and efficacy of the antiepileptic drug oxcarbazepine in benzodiazepine detoxification in ten patients. METHODS: In this case study of an inpatient withdrawal program, each of the ten patients was detoxified using oxcarbazepine and completed withdrawal successfully without the occurrence of withdrawal symptoms. The detoxification program followed an outlined dosage scheme with oxcarbazepine increase and benzodiazepine tapering. RESULTS: The rapidity of benzodiazepine detoxification using oxcarbazepine was remarkable, benzodiazepine withdrawal being completed in as little as 11 days. CONCLUSIONS: The results support the assumption that oxcarbazepine is a valuable drug for inpatient benzodiazepine withdrawal programs.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18821451?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum


- Scott

 

Re: Anyone tried this? Maxime

Posted by yxibow on August 24, 2009, at 17:16:21

In reply to Re: Anyone tried this? tensor, posted by Maxime on August 24, 2009, at 12:50:30

> I came off of 4 mg of clonazepam in the hospital last year cold turkey. They added 200 mg of Seroquel. I suffered no withdrawal effects from the clonazepam. I suspect trileptal would do the same thing as the Seroquel. Best of luck to you.


Okay I may have been labeled with 'rubbish' for the previous reply, although I still stand by it because it was referring to Tegretol which has considerable problems, but this is NOT a good idea.

That would be like coming off the considerable dose of Valium I still need to take, in one week. It would precipitate all the symptoms and more, and possibly cause what, while I'm not saying will happen to you, happened to me, before.


I went off years ago Tranxene, cold turkey not knowing that you shouldn't do that. The muscles in my scalp moved around for weeks and eventually locked up, locked up parts of my back as time went on. To this day that movement can still "awaken" and my back is quite locked up and my neck makes cracks if I turn it.


My point is, if you "escaped" it without consequences, fine... some people do. But 4mg is a considerable dose. Fortunately Seroquel was added as this drop would send someone in the anxiety spectrum range in unpredictable ways.


(Yes, I just said another drug added to another drug... okay, so it may work for some, again the previous reply was aimed more at Tegretol and the source of all of this which was, well, an 'alternative' 'Ashton' page...)


Personally, well I'm sensitive to a lot of medications and I know from experience not to do this... but... for the average population, I would also suggest not coming off a -large- dose of benzodiazepines without a reasonable taper.


Seizures in those prone to them (and not), muscle spasms, chills, anxiety, all can occur, if not worse things that happen to people who act in rare ways to agents like myself, and is not really a pleasant period to live through.


-- tidings

Jay

 

Re: Anyone tried this? yxibow

Posted by Maxime on August 24, 2009, at 18:01:21

In reply to Re: Anyone tried this? Maxime, posted by yxibow on August 24, 2009, at 17:16:21

> > I came off of 4 mg of clonazepam in the hospital last year cold turkey. They added 200 mg of Seroquel. I suffered no withdrawal effects from the clonazepam. I suspect trileptal would do the same thing as the Seroquel. Best of luck to you.
>
>
> Okay I may have been labeled with 'rubbish' for the previous reply, although I still stand by it because it was referring to Tegretol which has considerable problems, but this is NOT a good idea.
>
> That would be like coming off the considerable dose of Valium I still need to take, in one week. It would precipitate all the symptoms and more, and possibly cause what, while I'm not saying will happen to you, happened to me, before.
>
>
> I went off years ago Tranxene, cold turkey not knowing that you shouldn't do that. The muscles in my scalp moved around for weeks and eventually locked up, locked up parts of my back as time went on. To this day that movement can still "awaken" and my back is quite locked up and my neck makes cracks if I turn it.
>
>
> My point is, if you "escaped" it without consequences, fine... some people do. But 4mg is a considerable dose. Fortunately Seroquel was added as this drop would send someone in the anxiety spectrum range in unpredictable ways.
>
>
> (Yes, I just said another drug added to another drug... okay, so it may work for some, again the previous reply was aimed more at Tegretol and the source of all of this which was, well, an 'alternative' 'Ashton' page...)
>
>
> Personally, well I'm sensitive to a lot of medications and I know from experience not to do this... but... for the average population, I would also suggest not coming off a -large- dose of benzodiazepines without a reasonable taper.
>
>
> Seizures in those prone to them (and not), muscle spasms, chills, anxiety, all can occur, if not worse things that happen to people who act in rare ways to agents like myself, and is not really a pleasant period to live through.
>
>
> -- tidings
>
> Jay

Unfortunately I had no say in the matter. I was in the hospital on the psych ward and the pdoc doesn't like benzos. She wouldn't let me stay on it and cut me off completly. Maybe not the smartest thing to do to a patient, but she did it.

 

Re: Anyone tried this?

Posted by Phillipa on August 24, 2009, at 23:40:50

In reply to Re: Anyone tried this? yxibow, posted by Maxime on August 24, 2009, at 18:01:21

Personal experience. As a 27 year old haven given birth two months earlier to a very hard to care for baby who was in Yale hospital due to side effects probably to the benzos and meds the ob gyn and doc at the time thought were fine to combine with preganancy. I cold turkeyed myself at home had first gone to hospital and left they said I'd seize if went cold turkey did it anyway as knew had a baby in two weeks to care for. I lay on the couch for two weeks doing nothing. I couldn't. When walked felt like just got off a rocking ship. I was hot. I couldn't eat. When the two weeks were up and time to get baby knew had to take some valium or couldn't took 5mg and was fine. Bought her home with her Father he returned to work and I could again relax and she then gained three pounds in a month as she had what they called hyperkinetic. The Nurses could'n't get her to gain an once stop moving legs and crying 24 hours a day. I did the cold turkey thankfully I was young and healthy. Knew nothing about meds. Just knew had to care for family. So don't advise cold turkey unless under medical care in a hospital. My feelings . Love Phillipa

 

Re: Anyone tried this? Maxime

Posted by yxibow on August 25, 2009, at 0:01:37

In reply to Re: Anyone tried this? yxibow, posted by Maxime on August 24, 2009, at 18:01:21


> Unfortunately I had no say in the matter. I was in the hospital on the psych ward and the pdoc doesn't like benzos. She wouldn't let me stay on it and cut me off completly. Maybe not the smartest thing to do to a patient, but she did it.

That is really unfortunate... and not smart, you're right in my opinion.

My male-hating (okay, we can get into discussions about feminism, I have nothing against it), patient-experienced-with-PDR-hating, doctor at college did NOT give me back the dose I went cold turkey off of.

The ill equipped urgent care place which really didn't deal with these problems scoffed about it.

My doctor gave me back 50% of what I had which is still a half turkey in my mind. NOT good. But can I sue her 10 year later, or is it worthwhile, no.

It was an extreme reaction to going off a medicine completely that others may not experience. I hope nobody experiences this extent.

I just don't want anyone to have seizures, which is a possibility.


And ultimately yes, she was benzo-hating, and I was on propranolol thereafter.

Not necessarily the brightest move, since I was never informed about faintness or anything nor did she say I should have regular cuff-tests.

Fortunately I didn't fall over.

I think propranolol has its place, don't get me wrong. It removes the senses of anxiety, but it doesn't get to root causes (like GABA-A, etc).


-- Jay

 

Thanks (nm) SLS

Posted by tensor on August 25, 2009, at 3:40:13

In reply to Re: Anyone tried this?, posted by SLS on August 24, 2009, at 15:47:28

 

Re: Anyone tried this? yxibow

Posted by SLS on August 25, 2009, at 5:54:31

In reply to Re: Anyone tried this? Maxime, posted by yxibow on August 25, 2009, at 0:01:37

> I think propranolol has its place, don't get me wrong. It removes the senses of anxiety, but it doesn't get to root causes (like GABA-A, etc).

Just curious - did you ever try pindolol? Aside from blocking NE beta receptors, it also blocks serotonin 5-HT1a somato-dendritic autoreceptors, which might be a way to enhance serotonin neurotransmission without affecting reuptake.


- Scott

 

Re: Anyone tried this? SLS

Posted by yxibow on August 25, 2009, at 23:48:10

In reply to Re: Anyone tried this? yxibow, posted by SLS on August 25, 2009, at 5:54:31

> > I think propranolol has its place, don't get me wrong. It removes the senses of anxiety, but it doesn't get to root causes (like GABA-A, etc).
>
> Just curious - did you ever try pindolol? Aside from blocking NE beta receptors, it also blocks serotonin 5-HT1a somato-dendritic autoreceptors, which might be a way to enhance serotonin neurotransmission without affecting reuptake.


No I have not tried the other non-cardioselective agents (nadolol either).


That's an interesting read-- I haven't studied that, thanks Scott.

I think ultimately though, at this point I need less medication of some sorts, and not more -- I just can't though right now, so many catch 22s.


Continuous use of any major amounts of propranolol though is something I think my doctor of today would not like, it can cause depression and is a liability for low blood pressure with everything I have on board. I do use it on some occasions PRN for pseudoparkinsonism and hand tics.


-- Jay



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