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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sam K on June 19, 2009, at 19:54:06
Im confused. Are antidepressants supposed to make you happy? because pristiq doesnt make me happy. But it does keep me from falling into severe depressions (as far as i know for now).
so question for you. Does your antidepressant make you happy?
Because what i know about myself, if I dont take meds. I get overwhelmed after about a week and I fall apart. Like my emotional immune system just falls apart and I become depressed, fatigued and feel hopeless.
Well anyway...... idk what to think
my regimin is pristiq 50mg at night and .25 klonopin a day for now. Thinking about adding a stimulant. But idk.
Posted by Frustratedmama on June 19, 2009, at 20:17:32
In reply to question about antidepressants/depression, posted by sam K on June 19, 2009, at 19:54:06
I would best describe antidepressants as a tool to make you feel "normal" again- not "happy"- but able to enjoy things that you once enjoyed- be able to feel sad when it is appropriate; silly; laughing when others do. However, you should still be able to get tired, get upset, and react to situations "appropriately"....
However, I think for most of us here at babble antidepressants don't always do that.... They seem to cause some people to be hypomanic, others to get anxious, and still others to feel blunted. I have experienced all of the above on antidepressants. At one time they did "work" for me and I should have never gone off of them as they haven't worked well since.... So, hope this isn't too confusing- just my thoughts on the subject.... We are in need of an antidepressant that WORKS and KEEPS ON WORKING :)
Posted by Phillipa on June 19, 2009, at 21:44:06
In reply to Re: question about antidepressants/depression, posted by Frustratedmama on June 19, 2009, at 20:17:32
Right on target Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on June 19, 2009, at 22:28:45
In reply to Re: question about antidepressants/depression, posted by Frustratedmama on June 19, 2009, at 20:17:32
I never felt that antidepressants made me 'happy'. They did help me respond to positive events in life.
For some people, the drugs appear to produce a false sence of happiness, but I don't think this is too common (or lasting for that matter).
Whenever you are abnormally happy (out of proportion with reality) your preceptions and judement are off and thats not really good.
Linkadge
Posted by HyperFocus on June 19, 2009, at 23:05:32
In reply to Re: question about antidepressants/depression, posted by linkadge on June 19, 2009, at 22:28:45
If the drugs are working properly I don't think they can induce happiness chemically. There can be brief bursts of hypomania/mania but these are always temporary. The best I can imagine is that you may feel your emotions are regulated to the point before you became ill. But getting to that point would be a very happy experience for someone.
I was driving in a car yesterday and the sun was one me and I felt like for the first time I was feeling the sun's warmth in a long time - you know and not worrying about people staring at me. So I guess when I feel like my drugs are working I can get happy over mundane things that normal people wouldn't.
Being finally free from illness would cause most of us to be naturally happy I think.
Posted by Sigismund on June 19, 2009, at 23:57:13
In reply to question about antidepressants/depression, posted by sam K on June 19, 2009, at 19:54:06
I'm sure you've heard the correct line...ADs are not supposed to make you happy...they are there to correct a chemical imbalance so you cn be freed from it and learn to cope with life.
Having rehearsed that again, let me say that in English speaking countries (in particular) a punitive and unhelpful approach to cognative and emotional disorders seems to be what we have to put up with.
Posted by morganpmiller on June 20, 2009, at 2:45:28
In reply to Re: question about antidepressants/depression, posted by Sigismund on June 19, 2009, at 23:57:13
My first experience with an AD was Prozac. I felt pretty damn happy once it kicked. I have a naturally upbeat way about me anyway when I feel good. Maybe I was just so relieved once prozac kicked in I felt happiness. Zoloft made me feel pretty damn good too. When I feel good, I'm really happy. But, I agree with most posts above. These drugs typically restore chemicals and help repair damage done by years of depression/anxiety. They are not necessarily happy drugs. Though the makers of Zoloft would have you think otherwise with their little smiley faced bouncing ball.
So your on pristiq huh. How long? Maybe you said I can't remember.
Personally, I think Prozac and Zoloft are better. I am biased though. Prozac is a nice dirty drug in a good way. It is often considered the atypical SSRI. For Zoloft, 100 mgs or more and you may get a good amount of dopamine reuptake inhibition. I would take a serotonin-dopamine boost for feeling better over a serotonin-norepinephrine boost any day.JMO
Posted by morganpmiller on June 20, 2009, at 3:11:20
In reply to question about antidepressants/depression, posted by sam K on June 19, 2009, at 19:54:06
> Im confused. Are antidepressants supposed to make you happy? because pristiq doesnt make me happy. But it does keep me from falling into severe depressions (as far as i know for now).
> so question for you. Does your antidepressant make you happy?
> Because what i know about myself, if I dont take meds. I get overwhelmed after about a week and I fall apart. Like my emotional immune system just falls apart and I become depressed, fatigued and feel hopeless.
> Well anyway...... idk what to think
> my regimin is pristiq 50mg at night and .25 klonopin a day for now. Thinking about adding a stimulant. But idk.
Instead of adding a stimulant, I would see how things go with pristiq and try to drop the klonopin. Or, try another a drug that works better on depression and anxiety and drop the klonopin.God I wish psychiatrists would just ask their patients to stick out the anxiety and see if the antidepressant alone takes care of everything. When you get on something like klonopin or xanax at the beginning of your trial with an AD, you never get to know if you would have been fine just taking the AD. In your case, Pristiq could possibly be giving you anxiety as it inhibits the reuptake of norepinephrine. Then you may need klonopin to calm you down. If you took another AD that is known to work on both depression and anxiety, like Prozac, Zoloft, or Paxil(or even lexapro-I just think lexapro is overhyped and too selective), and the AD significantly improved anxiety over time, you would not need klonopin. Besides, the longer you stay on drugs like klonopin, the more you build up a tolerance and need to increase the dose. Obviously I'm anti benzo, with the exception of severe cases. Benzos are way over prescribed. I've had a few doctors who felt the same way.
So you're taking Pristiq, which could give you anxiety(as any AD could of course) due to the stimulating effects of noradrenalin boost, your taking .25 mg klonopin for anxiety(I know this is a low dose and your probably taking it in the evening or before bed), and then you may add a stimulant. I have a gut feeling that if you wanted to, you could find one AD that simply made you feel better in general. If you are not exercising and stretching or doing yoga and meditating, you may want to consider these as ways of getting you where you need to be without adding any more medication.
I bet if I were to first have an episode the way I did when I was 22, most doctors would put me on some benzo and prescribe something like prozac. Thank god, when I was 22, putting someone on a benzo was not the first knee jerk reaction. Believe me, my anxiety was through the roof. The first 3 weeks of prozac were just a continuation of the hell that I had been experiencing. It may have been worse in some ways. Then, one day I woke up, took my prozac, went to class, and I felt totally normal for the first time in a long long time. I had no issues with anxiety, none. I was young and having fun so I think that helped.
I do know that there are some p docs out there that believe benzos interfere with the efficacy of antidepressants. This goes alone with the same reasoning that alcohol interferes with the efficacy of antidepressants. Benzos are central nervous systems depressants, just like alcohol. Your at depressing your nervous system while trying to stimulate it in some way with AD's. If you were on a benzo from the beginning, how will you ever know how good you could have felt on the AD alone?
Hopefully Pristiq alone will work for you at some point. If not, I would consider Zoloft, Prozac, or maybe Paxil(turned me and many others into a zombie) Most likely, if you stick it out and find the right dose, your anxiety will become manageable without having to use a benzo like klonopin.
Posted by floatingbridge on June 20, 2009, at 11:59:35
In reply to Re: question about antidepressants/depression, posted by morganpmiller on June 20, 2009, at 3:11:20
Posted by sam K on June 20, 2009, at 12:19:30
In reply to Re: question about antidepressants/depression, posted by morganpmiller on June 20, 2009, at 3:11:20
About a week ago i was saying just what youre saying. But my anxiety got worse from the pristiq and I took some klonopin and bam... I have bipolar 3 i think (substance inducing bipolar) and none of the mood stabilizers fit me at all. I took depakote way back then and I dont think I liked it. But I may try it again. Klonopin is a weak mood stabilizer and takes away anxiety. I still have anxiety but its manageable.
Ive tried zoloft and it gives me weird side effects. Like i couldn't make eye contact at all. Even with my parents. And it never went away until i stopped it. Zoloft also makes me super impulsive. I just start doing things and popping pills and drinking and smoking. I do things i later regret. every time!
Paxil made me more anxious, but i wasn't on it that long. Like a few days. I sat in my basement in one room for 2 days. I was on edge the whole time. While I was on it, I felt no interest in anything. I might give it another try if pristiq fails out.
Luvox was just junk so dont mention that lol.
Effexor made my blood pressure and heartrate skyrocket.
Abilify is junk as all the APs are for me.
Lexapro is a good one, but it must have a lot of start up anxiety. Because when I first take it my heart raccccces (like panic). But im sure that would go away. If pristiq fails out then I'm definatly going to lexapro.
But anyway thanks for your post and I'm in no way offended. Even if it sounds like I am. :)
Posted by floatingbridge on June 20, 2009, at 12:26:57
In reply to Re: question about antidepressants/depression (nm), posted by floatingbridge on June 20, 2009, at 11:59:35
Hey, I just wrote a note to you Sam, but posted as no message!
I concur with Morgan about the klonopin. It is a depressive. I started xanax years ago and have been unable to do without some form of benzo since. (However, seems to help me.) Before the xanax, when I was younger before a back injury, I used to run and found that to be the best med around for anxiety. I don't mean to diminish any anxiety issues you may have--you and (well, maybe) your doc know best.
I find the responses your question has generated to be interesting and moving. I find meds help me function, interact, do therapy constructively, be a more present and loving mother and friend. Happiness, well, it's been awhile since I've really been able to laugh like I once did. I'd like more (simple) pleasure and passion. I think I miss the laughter most of all.
enough. I'll stop here. Best wishes!
Candace
Posted by floatingbridge on June 20, 2009, at 12:49:25
In reply to whats wrong with benzos?, posted by sam K on June 20, 2009, at 12:19:30
Hi Sam,
My diagnosis is bipolar III (among a few other things) as well. I have difficulty with AP's (and AD's!) and mood stabilizers. My pdoc says klonopin has mild mood stabilizing effects. I also take pristiq and am tolerating it well.
As to your question re: benzo's, I'll leave that to the more knowledgeable babblers.
Posted by morganpmiller on June 20, 2009, at 22:34:04
In reply to whats wrong with benzos?, posted by sam K on June 20, 2009, at 12:19:30
You don't sound offended at all. I'm not totally opposed to benzos. I would just be interested to see how people were reacting to their antidepressants if benzos were not prescribed as much, like 15 or 20 years ago. And, like I mentioned before, there are psychiatrists that believe that benzos may interfere with the efficacy of SSRIs and other antidepressants.
Why didn't you stay of Lexapro?
That is a very odd reaction you had to Zoloft. Did you try to adjust the dosage? When I was on 50 mgs of zoloft I couldn't not control my anger. Bumped up to 100 and it was smooth sailing. Anyway, if I had that reaction to zoloft I would have dumped it too.
Yeah my best advice is to still with the Pristiq and eventually see if you can get of klonopin. I believe that you can. I just read that Pristiq may act more like an SSRI at 50 and more like an SNRI at 100. Nice to know. Depends on how you react and what your needs are I guess.
> About a week ago i was saying just what youre saying. But my anxiety got worse from the pristiq and I took some klonopin and bam... I have bipolar 3 i think (substance inducing bipolar) and none of the mood stabilizers fit me at all. I took depakote way back then and I dont think I liked it. But I may try it again. Klonopin is a weak mood stabilizer and takes away anxiety. I still have anxiety but its manageable.
> Ive tried zoloft and it gives me weird side effects. Like i couldn't make eye contact at all. Even with my parents. And it never went away until i stopped it. Zoloft also makes me super impulsive. I just start doing things and popping pills and drinking and smoking. I do things i later regret. every time!
> Paxil made me more anxious, but i wasn't on it that long. Like a few days. I sat in my basement in one room for 2 days. I was on edge the whole time. While I was on it, I felt no interest in anything. I might give it another try if pristiq fails out.
> Luvox was just junk so dont mention that lol.
> Effexor made my blood pressure and heartrate skyrocket.
> Abilify is junk as all the APs are for me.
> Lexapro is a good one, but it must have a lot of start up anxiety. Because when I first take it my heart raccccces (like panic). But im sure that would go away. If pristiq fails out then I'm definatly going to lexapro.
> But anyway thanks for your post and I'm in no way offended. Even if it sounds like I am. :)
>
Posted by morganpmiller on June 20, 2009, at 22:48:55
In reply to Re: whats wrong with benzos?, posted by floatingbridge on June 20, 2009, at 12:49:25
Hi Candace, I am some form of bipolar too. I think just because I had a major mixed episode, many would consider me BP I. Most that knew me over the years would never have considered me BP I, including my therapis who has a Phd. and does forensic work for Fairfax Co. Police just outside of D.C.
As far as your benzo goes, do you think it may be holding you back in any way?
I hear you on the passion for life and laughing again. God, that seems to have gone away for me in a very short period of time.
To Sam, if you can find a way to just use the benzo as needed, you may be better off. Like I said, it is possible that benzos interfere with the antidepressant and anxiolytic effects of antidepressants. But so many have been on their benzo since starting their AD, how the heck would they know this?
I totally agree that running and exercise is the best way to deal with anxiety, that is, if you can do those things. Intense exercise is really the best. I would also recommend Bikram Yoga-wipes out anxiety. If you do any intense exercise like on the bike,treadmill,or eliptical or running outside, it is so important to stretch! Stretching increases levels of GABA, the same neurotransmitter that is targeted by benzos. Meditation, yoga, stretching, may all increase GABA levels.
Hey Candace, I have an aunt named Candace who has 3 boys. Just wondering...I doubt you are her though
> Hi Sam,
>
> My diagnosis is bipolar III (among a few other things) as well. I have difficulty with AP's (and AD's!) and mood stabilizers. My pdoc says klonopin has mild mood stabilizing effects. I also take pristiq and am tolerating it well.
>
> As to your question re: benzo's, I'll leave that to the more knowledgeable babblers.
Posted by floatingbridge on June 20, 2009, at 23:05:06
In reply to Re: whats wrong with benzos?, posted by morganpmiller on June 20, 2009, at 22:48:55
Yikes! No! One boy is enough! : D
Posted by bleauberry on June 21, 2009, at 18:27:22
In reply to question about antidepressants/depression, posted by sam K on June 19, 2009, at 19:54:06
Once in a while antidepressants make someone outright happy as heck. Not often. I'm thinking of Ace the Nardil champ, and a few others at patient review sites. Zoloft, Prozac, Lexapro, Modafanil, they can all do it. But rarely. That is not what they are supposed to do.
They are supposed to restore you to feeling normal. Not high, not overly happy, not anything, just you, just normal.
I personally do not believe they do that. I feel they take our brain to a different place. It is close to normal, but different. It is a different place. I mean, before we got depressed, we didn't have floods of serotonin at our synapses that were 100% to 300% higher than normal. With antidepressants we do. There is no way that kind of change is going to bring as back to where we started. It will take us some place new. Hopefully a good new.
Not feeling anything at all is not uncommon. No downs, but no ups either. Nothing creates excitement or interest. Nothing bothers you. You don't cry at funerals. You don't laugh like everyone around you is. That flat feeling is in the realm of apathy and/or anhedonia, which are not uncommonly the result of antidepressant treatment. It depends on each person's unique chemistry and how the medication is impacting it.
Posted by morganpmiller on June 22, 2009, at 0:30:47
In reply to Re: question about antidepressants/depression, posted by bleauberry on June 21, 2009, at 18:27:22
I agree with you on the different place thing. Closer to normal but different. I would even say that in some cases beyond normal and better than you are supposed to feel. Maybe people predisposed to bipolar are more likely to get that feeling form ADs. I have to admit, on prozac and zoloft, I felt depressed in an odd good way, more reminiscent to how I felt some times as a child. That is what I loved about that feeling, I felt like I was connected in the same way I was connected when I was young. Hey, AD's are drugs..hopefully we get on the good ones and they last for a long time.
This is the end of the thread.
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