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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 28. Go back in thread:
Posted by floatingbridge on May 20, 2009, at 22:08:03
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds » stejoel, posted by Phillipa on May 20, 2009, at 12:10:07
> Maybe that we're not in control of the meds we can get with out another in this case a doctor. Feels demeaning. Is that it? Phillipa
That's well said. I finally admitted this feeling to my pdoc, who is very understanding....felt better having spoken of it openly, but didn't really make the seed of that discomfort go away. (Or the power dynamic.)
Candace
Posted by yxibow on May 20, 2009, at 22:12:17
In reply to Feel sick asking for meds, posted by stejoel on May 20, 2009, at 10:53:53
> I just got off the phone with my pdoc. I was asking him to prescribe a medication that I thought would greatly help my condition. After the phone call I am feeling so uneasy for having to ask for something. I feel like I'm begging. Like the med is possibly my last hope in ever feeling better and knowing that only he can give it to me. The doctor is a really nice man so I'm not saying anything about him personally. It's just that feeling that I am begging for my life to get a simple med called in is making me feel awful. I'm not even sure what I'm trying to say.
I can understand -- and there's no reason to be ashamed or beat yourself up for wanting something to help your functionality in life.
Medications certainly don't solve anything but they help people deal with a condition and may make it easier to do therapeutic work as well.
That's why NAMI has stood up to try to take away the "shame" and "stigma" of mental illness and people who are in need of a doctor are now called "consumers" instead of "patients" because just like you go to any person who provides a service, you make choices, and you're a consumer.
As mentioned, I know its something that still is hard to discuss if you're say a police officer or the like. However, some police departments have opened up a little and allowed medications such as Prozac for depression.
Hope that helps
-- Jay
Posted by Zyprexa on May 20, 2009, at 23:27:19
In reply to Feel sick asking for meds, posted by stejoel on May 20, 2009, at 10:53:53
I know what you mean. I hate having to ask a doctor for a med or a dose change. Wish I could do it all on my own through reseach or my own trial and error. It can get expensive to make an appointment to see the doctor just to ask can I do this. I can understand asking a doctor for medical advice if you need it or don't know what you are doing. But some times I think I do a better job than the doctor. Maybe its just me?
Posted by sowhysosad on May 21, 2009, at 5:23:03
In reply to Feel sick asking for meds, posted by stejoel on May 20, 2009, at 10:53:53
> I just got off the phone with my pdoc. I was asking him to prescribe a medication that I thought would greatly help my condition. After the phone call I am feeling so uneasy for having to ask for something. I feel like I'm begging. Like the med is possibly my last hope in ever feeling better and knowing that only he can give it to me. The doctor is a really nice man so I'm not saying anything about him personally. It's just that feeling that I am begging for my life to get a simple med called in is making me feel awful. I'm not even sure what I'm trying to say.
I know just what you mean. There's more of a stigma about psych meds here in the UK so you can often feel like a junkie or something asking a GP - or even a pdoc - for a particular drug.
Posted by sowhysosad on May 21, 2009, at 5:27:08
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds » stejoel, posted by yxibow on May 20, 2009, at 22:12:17
> That's why NAMI has stood up to try to take away the "shame" and "stigma" of mental illness and people who are in need of a doctor are now called "consumers" instead of "patients" because just like you go to any person who provides a service, you make choices, and you're a consumer.
I guess that also shows how free market principles come into play more in the US health system than in Europe.
That has its advantages (pioneering new meds, more respect for patients as "consumers") but also disadvantages (danger of over-medicalisation).
Posted by stejoel on May 21, 2009, at 11:32:09
In reply to Feel sick asking for meds, posted by stejoel on May 20, 2009, at 10:53:53
I research my condition on the internet constantly and it feels awkward having to explain things to a psychiatrist. For example a few months ago I suggested adding Wellbutrin to my Lexapro because I felt I had ssri induced anhedonia. It seemed like he had never heard of that combination of drugs before and had to research it for himself. When I ask to try something I feel like I'm a drug-seeking addict.
Posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2009, at 20:40:48
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds, posted by stejoel on May 21, 2009, at 11:32:09
No don't feel that way it's sad but happens frequently can you get another doc? Phillipa
Posted by YOGI BRONX on May 24, 2009, at 23:32:01
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds, posted by stejoel on May 21, 2009, at 11:32:09
Dear stejoel,
The ninety year old licensing laws have changed doctors from advisors into gatekeepers while guaranteeing that the profession makes them wealthy. I hate having to be a part of this farcical system. If I could get my meds from a source OTHER THAN doctors, I would, just to avoid being a part of the problem.
Posted by yxibow on May 25, 2009, at 8:02:57
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds, posted by YOGI BRONX on May 24, 2009, at 23:32:01
> Dear stejoel,
>
> The ninety year old licensing laws have changed doctors from advisors into gatekeepers while guaranteeing that the profession makes them wealthy. I hate having to be a part of this farcical system. If I could get my meds from a source OTHER THAN doctors, I would, just to avoid being a part of the problem.
Well if you don't want to have a doctor or are interested in psychiatry then why bother making what amounts to a rather absurd comment in my own opinion?Me thinks this is a statement in search of questions....
Let's just drop all drug laws. Get your medicines from the street. Oh, but wait, are you really sure that you're safe ? I mean because diverted drugs have of course 100% FDA approved contents.
Doctors may make a decent salary but they have to pay INCREASING amounts of malpractice insurance in this society and the DEA is breathing down their throats because of egregious acts by a few doctors and the amount of diversion.So yes, there should be a gatekeeper, in a sense -- do you want a doctor to just say, here's a prescription for morphine ?
I can't believe I actually have to post this.-- Jay
Posted by stejoel on May 25, 2009, at 10:10:51
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds » stejoel, posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2009, at 20:40:48
> No don't feel that way it's sad but happens frequently can you get another doc? Phillipa
He's a good doctor. I think my problem has something to do with my social phobia.
Posted by YOGI BRONX on May 25, 2009, at 14:08:06
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds » YOGI BRONX, posted by yxibow on May 25, 2009, at 8:02:57
Dear Jay,
Since I have a mental illness, I would choose to consult an expert in that field. Were it not for the licensing laws, I would have a variety of experts to choose from, not exemplars of the same cookie-cutter.
If the expert told me that he thought I needed a particular medication, I would obtain it, or not, as I decided, without the necessity of his approving my acquisition. (If he told me to take morphine for my depression, I would probably not do so.)
Market competition, free of government licensing, would make both resorts to treatment MUCH CHEAPER and would restore the medical expert's consultation to the SERVICE position that it is, thus eliminating the demeaning and embarrassing process that seeking medical advice has become.
The government, the AMA, and other organizations would be free to approve service workers. I would take their judgments into account but their approval would not be mandatory for the service workers to practice their professions.
Your attitude proclaims a complete indoctrination by health care industry propaganda.
Cordially,
Yogi
Posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2009, at 18:58:37
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds » yxibow, posted by YOGI BRONX on May 25, 2009, at 14:08:06
I know of sites where others are obtaining their meds without prescriptions. Also Mexico used to don't know about now sell over the counter many meds like antibiotics. A Jai Lai Player from Tia Juana dentist also used to stay with me and always brought an ansenal of med with him both for him and his family to avoid doctors in the six months they played here. Phillipa. Also I've gotten meds from others. And neighbors share meds also.
Posted by yxibow on May 25, 2009, at 19:43:10
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds » yxibow, posted by YOGI BRONX on May 25, 2009, at 14:08:06
> Dear Jay,
>
> Since I have a mental illness, I would choose to consult an expert in that field. Were it not for the licensing laws, I would have a variety of experts to choose from, not exemplars of the same cookie-cutter.
I'll give you one point for the hoops and hurdles that our (US) healthcare system is. But not every psychiatrist's appointment works like that -- but often the ones through HMOs do.I don't agree with the 15 minute meetings but that's how its been.
If you need expert advice, you have to pay for expert advice. Though I have a spirit for volunteering or helping the mental health community, I'd hardly want to work my main career for free, unless you're splitting the lottery winnings with me.
> If the expert told me that he thought I needed a particular medication, I would obtain it, or not, as I decided, without the necessity of his approving my acquisition. (If he told me to take morphine for my depression, I would probably not do so.)
The saying don't ask a dog to bark if you can bark yourself comes to mind.....
> Market competition, free of government licensing, would make both resorts to treatment MUCH CHEAPER and would restore the medical expert's consultation to the SERVICE position that it is, thus eliminating the demeaning and embarrassing process that seeking medical advice has become.Free of government licensing? Where does this come in. Do you really want medications that have just come out of a test tube, crystallized and sent to your door?
No phase testing? Your liver, pancreas, kidneys, entire body, they're fine to test on ?
And there is market competition. If you don't use insurance -- well its set by your therapist/doctor.
Want someone for $200 or so, good. Want a concierge 24/7 service for a $1000 an hour, go ahead.
Want a psychiatrist for $100, and you're likely to get someone... well let's just hope for your body they're above par.
> The government, the AMA, and other organizations would be free to approve service workers. I would take their judgments into account but their approval would not be mandatory for the service workers to practice their professions.
Well this is getting beyond a libertarian view -- I can't agree that, oh, dear FDA/DEA/State Licensing board, has said that Dr. X is okay.But Dr. Y who has not been approved, but has managed to have several patients die under his/her care, reckless disregard for human life, prescribing substances left and right... well he didn't get 4 gold stars on the buyer's guide to medicine, but we'll let him walk.
I mean what's another life in the hands of Dr. Y.
> Your attitude proclaims a complete indoctrination by health care industry propaganda.
I assure you there's no attitude here but I do sense a penchant for argumentation and some socio-political views that I can not fathom or agree with here. But then you're entitled to your beliefs, however odd they may seem.
And I'm not watching the grassy knoll and I have a pretty good idea we landed on the moon.
No, I'm not indoctrinated.And by the way, speaking of indoctrination, laws and bylaws at the AMA forbid pharmaceutical representatives from being at the meetings now.
Like the pretty pens or not, this was one way of learning about new medications.
But there's been one too many of those and I would agree.
-- Jay
Posted by YOGI BRONX on May 25, 2009, at 19:45:59
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds » YOGI BRONX, posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2009, at 18:58:37
Dear Phillipa,
All of the means of acquiring prescription meds that you mention are illegal, (except for the jai alai player wisely bringing his own on visits).
I suggest that a system that allows patients to choose their medical experts and their medications, (with the exception of antibiotics), at their own discretion would be better, cheaper, and would eliminate any fears of asking doctors for drugs.
Tangentially, such a system would eliminate the narcotrafficker psychopaths that the current system has created.
Cordially,
Yogi
Posted by yxibow on May 25, 2009, at 19:48:48
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds » YOGI BRONX, posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2009, at 18:58:37
> I know of sites where others are obtaining their meds without prescriptions.
And possibly dying of fake medications. And from what I've seen, they ain't cheaper than having insurance.
Also Mexico used to don't know about now sell over the counter many meds like antibiotics.
Oh they knew darn well. I've been to Tijuana. It was only the Mexican government who stepped up complicity with their own laws from, yes, the US among other places.
A Jai Lai Player from Tia Juana dentist also used to stay with me and always brought an ansenal of med with him both for him and his family to avoid doctors in the six months they played here.
Understandable. But he probably had, or should have had a prescription. You know, they do have socialized medicine in Mexico, however corrupt one might think for a developing country.
Also I've gotten meds from others. And neighbors share meds also.Which is illegal, but I'm not going go into that from an economic point, I just know, there is NO doctor who knows what is going on.
So medication X that was approved because person Y has a condition that merited it, but was diverted to patient Z and patient Z died....
Anyhow
-- Jay
Posted by YOGI BRONX on May 25, 2009, at 19:58:00
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on May 25, 2009, at 19:48:48
Dear Jay,
There is no need to stop the current system of FDA verification of a drug's efficacy.
If one were to manufacture a drug that was ineffective, one could still be punished criminally if one claimed that it WAS effective, just as is true now with OTC products.
Individuals, on the other hand, would be free to purchase any drug that they wish whether or not the FDA has ruled on its potency.
Cordially,
Yogi
Posted by YOGI BRONX on May 25, 2009, at 20:08:02
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds » YOGI BRONX, posted by yxibow on May 25, 2009, at 19:43:10
Dear Jay,
This is not argument for the sake of it but an attempt to make readers consider a health care structure very different from the one currently in existence. A structure that would cost radically less and be much more effective.
However, if you don't want to discuss the topic, I will not persevere.
Cordially,
Yogi
Posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2009, at 21:04:43
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds » Phillipa, posted by YOGI BRONX on May 25, 2009, at 19:45:59
Yogi I know but it's going on. Lots of sites. I don't get meds there others do. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2009, at 21:11:08
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on May 25, 2009, at 19:48:48
Jay no all the players walked into the pharmacy said hummm well amoxicillin etc and brought them with them. Seriously. Also if I'm on a med and run out neighbors can supply and in turn some give to another if extreme anxiety. In the school system also. Lots of meds are shared via mail. Look at online pharmacies. Google a med first thing that shows up where to buy cheaper and some provide an online doc to evaluate, write a script and med dispensed. No have never done it but know others do. So if my pdoc can't practic due to her age 72 and the car accident I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to obtain something I've been on for over 40 years when they just don't prescribe them here. Love ya Jan
Posted by yxibow on May 25, 2009, at 21:11:19
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds » yxibow, posted by YOGI BRONX on May 25, 2009, at 20:08:02
> Dear Jay,
>
> This is not argument for the sake of it but an attempt to make readers consider a health care structure very different from the one currently in existence. A structure that would cost radically less and be much more effective.
I believe in universal health care, but I'm not going to go on, since "market forces" doesn't fit in that model
> However, if you don't want to discuss the topic, I will not persevere.
Yes, lets not persevere.-- thanks
-- Jay
Posted by yxibow on May 26, 2009, at 4:43:30
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds » yxibow, posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2009, at 21:11:08
> Jay no all the players walked into the pharmacy said hummm well amoxicillin etc and brought them with them. Seriously.
I'm lost....
Also if I'm on a med and run out neighbors can supply and in turn some give to another if extreme anxiety. In the school system also. Lots of meds are shared via mail.And this is a good thing ?
Look at online pharmacies. Google a med first thing that shows up where to buy cheaper and some provide an online doc to evaluate, write a script and med dispensed. No have never done it but know others do.
Jan, I've seen those sites and they aren't exactly the cheapest. They may claim to be, but they aren't, there isn't such a thing as a free lunch.
So if my pdoc can't practic due to her age 72 and the car accident I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to obtain something I've been on for over 40 years when they just don't prescribe them here.I think this is getting to be an irrational fear, but I won't comment because I really can't parse this posting -- no offense meant.
If you're really running out of Valium, I don't know what kind of system they are running down there but I know that you can get an advance on most medications at pharmacies here, and if need be yes, you can walk into an ER. I know -- insurance problems there.
You're not on that large a dose that something huge is going to happen. It would be very uncomfortable and I completely understand, but if I lost access to what I take I can tell you it would be quite a mess. The amount and complexity, yes, it scares me too.
So, I understand.
-- Jay
Posted by Phillipa on May 26, 2009, at 19:36:30
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on May 26, 2009, at 4:43:30
Jay thanks yesterday was a horrible day for me apologize. Love Jan
Posted by metric on June 5, 2009, at 11:25:03
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds, posted by YOGI BRONX on May 24, 2009, at 23:32:01
> Dear stejoel,
>
> The ninety year old licensing laws have changed doctors from advisors into gatekeepers while guaranteeing that the profession makes them wealthy. I hate having to be a part of this farcical system. If I could get my meds from a source OTHER THAN doctors, I would, just to avoid being a part of the problem.I couldn't agree more.
Posted by Netch on June 15, 2009, at 7:37:45
In reply to Feel sick asking for meds, posted by stejoel on May 20, 2009, at 10:53:53
Totally agree. I hate when others are in control of my life, it's like I'm a minor asking for permission.
Posted by desolationrower on June 19, 2009, at 8:22:39
In reply to Re: Feel sick asking for meds » yxibow, posted by YOGI BRONX on May 25, 2009, at 14:08:06
i try my best to avoid discussing libertarianism, but
making people feel helpless and w/o control is not a good idea to relived their mental illness, especially long-run.
-d/r
This is the end of the thread.
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