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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bleauberry on April 13, 2009, at 17:31:24
So, 6 weeks into Tetracycline for Lyme disease and I have progressively, but very gently, almost unseen from day to day, gotten worse and worse in terms of depression.
Ya know, the thought of being in a psyhiatric ward is scary and repulsive. I mean, you are locked in. You wear PJs. You are with seriously crazy people. There is scariness in the air. No way out. Few get well.
So, when someone is in such bad shape that the thought of the ward is acceptable, it is ok, well, that is real bad shape.
That is my best description of today.
Doxycylcine did the same thing. What is terrifying is that when I stop these antibiotics, I actually get even worse. They make me worse on them, and then yet even worse stopping. Geez. Gimme a break already. Lyme sucks. And so do the "cycline" antibiotics. For me anyway.
I'm sure any doc would scoff at my hunches, but I swear these cycline ABs have effects in the brain.
I did 5mg Parnate today hoping for that quick bounce. I didn't even feel it. A few weeks ago I did 5mg, it was strong, felt a bit worse for a couple days, and then by day 3 through 5 I felt probably 60% cured already. From one lousy half-dose. Sure hoping for that to repeat. Just need to buy some time.
My doc called me on Easter Sunday (cool doc!) and told me to stop. His instructions from the beginning were "If you get a lot worse, do not try to tough it out, stop the meds and call me". He said there is another variable going on that we need to get a grasp on. I see him next week, and then my pscyh NP the day after, so just need to try to hang tough until then. Today was hell at work. Heavy laden legs, huge frown, sunken eyes, distant, gloomy, almost shed tears a few times. Man, depression really sucks. Only the devil could have invented such an excruciating disease.
I like to come here and try to help people. I am not accustomed to being the one that needs the help. It's kind of scary when you don't know what's around the corner.
Posted by SLS on April 13, 2009, at 18:02:22
In reply to These Are Really Down Times For Me, posted by bleauberry on April 13, 2009, at 17:31:24
Hi Bleauberry.
I'm sorry that you find yourself in such a painful state. Unfortunately, I have very little practical advice for you. I know what it is like to feel so helpless as to need the support of others just to survive. I am glad that you decided to reach out.
- Scott
Posted by Sigismund on April 13, 2009, at 18:13:59
In reply to Re: These Are Really Down Times For Me » bleauberry, posted by SLS on April 13, 2009, at 18:02:22
Quite apart from the Lyme's disease, tetracycline is somewhat toxic, is it not?
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 13, 2009, at 19:25:21
In reply to These Are Really Down Times For Me, posted by bleauberry on April 13, 2009, at 17:31:24
I'm sorry it's gotten so hard for you. I think that having your doctor understand about your depressive response to the antibiotic without having to overcome his resistance to the idea is a good thing. He's out in front of that. There are antibiotics in other classes that can be used, e.g. ceftriaxone. You will get through this. You know this is iatrogenic. It will pass.
Lar
Posted by Zana on April 13, 2009, at 20:43:28
In reply to Re: These Are Really Down Times For Me » bleauberry, posted by Larry Hoover on April 13, 2009, at 19:25:21
God, what a shame you are having such a tough time. I know when I am really depressed I would do anything, anything to get out of it. And yes it is scarey to feel at the mercy of this beast inside you that turns the world so dark. I hope it is the antibiotic. I don't really have the whole picture but it sounds like you are being pretty inconsistant with your meds. I don't know much about MAOIs but don't you have to take them consistently for some period of time for them to work?
I hope reaching out helps. Something will. Have hope if you can. Keep posting so we know what's going on with you.Zana
Posted by johnj1 on April 13, 2009, at 20:53:45
In reply to These Are Really Down Times For Me, posted by bleauberry on April 13, 2009, at 17:31:24
I am very sorry to hear this as you have given me good advice when I used to frequent the board. I know how you feel, many of us do. I will pray for you tonight even though my faith is shaky right now I will make it a point to ask for relief for you.
Posted by Phillipa on April 14, 2009, at 0:07:17
In reply to Re: These Are Really Down Times For Me, posted by johnj1 on April 13, 2009, at 20:53:45
Seriously BB antibiotics can depress you also. Agree with Lar. Biaxin xl was good for me. Love Phillipa you know where and how to find me. Not feeling well myself.
Posted by SLS on April 14, 2009, at 6:40:35
In reply to Re: These Are Really Down Times For Me, posted by Phillipa on April 14, 2009, at 0:07:17
While I was going through my trial of doxycycline, I continued with my other drug trials. Since an adequate trial of doxycycline can be as long as a few months, I thought this combination strategy made sense. I made no changes for the first few weeks, though, just to see what my acute reaction to doxycycline was.
Since it is known that some people get more depressed early in treatment with doxycycline who later respond to it, it is a gamble as to whether to continue with the doxycycine if one should feel worse. However, this worsening should only last a couple of weeks at most. Beyond this, if I were to feel worse, I would have discontinued it.
- Scott
Posted by desolationrower on April 14, 2009, at 11:26:28
In reply to These Are Really Down Times For Me, posted by bleauberry on April 13, 2009, at 17:31:24
being willing to ask for help can sometimes be therepeutic...letting go of burden of total responsibility for an illness that isn't easy or even possible to completely control. hope things improve.
-d/r
Posted by manic666 on April 14, 2009, at 13:43:39
In reply to Re: These Are Really Down Times For Me, posted by Phillipa on April 14, 2009, at 0:07:17
sorry your in a bad way my friend after such a long run, dont make yourself worse by thinking about the hospital,sure some people who are in are scary an scared , but the are usually away from the wounded, i made friends with all walks of life, an they looked after me, you will if you have to go in , get a rest with luck an help,at least you no your getting ready for help.i had a guy well a sort of buddy giveing me the crying puppy sarga yesterday, he has drank like a fish all his life an lets say lived a charmed life . but his woman has ditched him an he is liveing . on peoples couch,s.he has crashed big time but he dont help himselp , he has been in mental hospital for the first time in his life ,mayby 4 weeks on an off , he comes out straight on the booze , i said what meds you on ,he said i dont no i left them at mt daughters,he is 51 an doomed , at least you no how to try an help yourself , the hospital told him dont come back we carnt do a thing if you dont help yourself , to be honest he just carnt , its the way he is made to burn out ,so at least your brain is in gear ,alas not the guy i no .
Posted by bleauberry on April 14, 2009, at 15:38:37
In reply to Re: These Are Really Down Times For Me, posted by Sigismund on April 13, 2009, at 18:13:59
> Quite apart from the Lyme's disease, tetracycline is somewhat toxic, is it not?
Well I don't know. Toxic to certain bacteria for sure.
That family of antibiotics actually has anti-inflammatory benefits distinctly different than the antimicrobial part, so in that sense they are beneficial. Doxycycline for example has a therapeutic dose of 200mg, but even just 25mg which is below the antimicrobial range has good anti-inflammatory action. I really don't know about toxic or not though. Sure feels toxic as heck.
Posted by bleauberry on April 14, 2009, at 15:46:42
In reply to Re: These Are Really Down Times For Me » bleauberry, posted by Larry Hoover on April 13, 2009, at 19:25:21
> I'm sorry it's gotten so hard for you. I think that having your doctor understand about your depressive response to the antibiotic without having to overcome his resistance to the idea is a good thing. He's out in front of that. There are antibiotics in other classes that can be used, e.g. ceftriaxone. You will get through this. You know this is iatrogenic. It will pass.
>
> LarAgreed. Yeah, he is an unusually good doctor. And I appreciate your encouragement! Thanks Larry.
Posted by Sigismund on April 14, 2009, at 15:50:50
In reply to Re: These Are Really Down Times For Me » Sigismund, posted by bleauberry on April 14, 2009, at 15:38:37
From LEF, for what it's worth.
TETRACYCLINE (Nu-Tetra®, Topicycline Topical®)Tetracycline is a broad-spectrum antibiotic that works against a variety of bacteria, including the kinds that cause acne, stomach ulcers, syphilis, and gonorrhea.
Which Nutrients Are RobbedTaking this medicine may deplete your supply of, increase your need for, or interfere with the activity of:
* biotin
* folic acid
* inositol
* thiamin
* riboflavin
* niacin
* vitamin B6
* vitamin B12
* vitamin C
* vitamin K
* calcium
* iron
* magnesium
* zinc
* Bifidobacteria bifidum
* Lactobacillus acidophilusRestoring the Nutrient Balance
Speak to your physician about taking 500-1000 mcg of biotin, 800 mcg of folic acid, 250-1000 mg of inositol, 25-200 mg of thiamin, 25-100 mg of riboflavin, 50-100 mg of niacin, 100 mg of vitamin B6, 500-1000 mcg of vitamin B12, 250-1500 mg of vitamin C, 1-10 mg of vitamin K, 1200 mg of calcium, 1500 mg of magnesium, 15 billion live Bifidobacteria bifidum organisms, and 15 billion live Lactobacillus acidophilus organisms. Ask your physician to consider the potential effects of iron depletion. You can also eat foods that contain the depleted nutrients.
Posted by bleauberry on April 14, 2009, at 15:55:46
In reply to Re: These Are Really Down Times For Me, posted by Zana on April 13, 2009, at 20:43:28
> God, what a shame you are having such a tough time. I know when I am really depressed I would do anything, anything to get out of it. And yes it is scarey to feel at the mercy of this beast inside you that turns the world so dark. I hope it is the antibiotic. I don't really have the whole picture but it sounds like you are being pretty inconsistant with your meds. I don't know much about MAOIs but don't you have to take them consistently for some period of time for them to work?
> I hope reaching out helps. Something will. Have hope if you can. Keep posting so we know what's going on with you.
>
> ZanaWell, it's not inconsistent with meds, it is no meds. Except the antibiotic which was solidly consistent. In terms of psych meds I am very sensitive and have paradoxical reactions, so in the last year I have been testing the waters with different meds just to see what has potential for a trial. So far only only two have fit that bill. Milnacipran, Parnate. I am not on Parnate, but I did sample it, dipped my toes in the water, so to speak. If I can make it past a few days on a miniscule amount of some med, then it qualifies for a trial. Usually by that time they have me 10 times worse than I was. Milnacipran surprised me by going uphill instead of downhill, and Parnate too.
So anyway, not inconsistent. Just sampling things that I might want to be consistent with. Weeding out the losers. Granted this is not the typical way to approach things, but then, I am 15 years into this, have been well on other meds, have experienced poopout, have had ECT, have tried most meds, and am not tolerant of meds as I used to be. 9 out of 10 meds make me profoundly worse, so I am out to weed those out and focus on the promising ones. It only takes a few days for me to test one. If I go from medium depression to suicidal depression within 4 days on a new med, that med is done.
Posted by bleauberry on April 14, 2009, at 15:57:09
In reply to Re: These Are Really Down Times For Me, posted by johnj1 on April 13, 2009, at 20:53:45
> I am very sorry to hear this as you have given me good advice when I used to frequent the board. I know how you feel, many of us do. I will pray for you tonight even though my faith is shaky right now I will make it a point to ask for relief for you.
I did get some relief today, and thank you for that my friend! No matter how shakey the faith, you are heard.
Posted by bleauberry on April 14, 2009, at 16:04:07
In reply to Re: These Are Really Down Times For Me, posted by SLS on April 14, 2009, at 6:40:35
Yeah I agree with you Scott. It was at the 3 week mark I ditched Doxy. Now with Tetra, it is the 6 week mark. Can't say I didn't give a good go of it. I really stuck to it. But at some point, enough is enough already, ya know?
> While I was going through my trial of doxycycline, I continued with my other drug trials. Since an adequate trial of doxycycline can be as long as a few months, I thought this combination strategy made sense. I made no changes for the first few weeks, though, just to see what my acute reaction to doxycycline was.
>
> Since it is known that some people get more depressed early in treatment with doxycycline who later respond to it, it is a gamble as to whether to continue with the doxycycine if one should feel worse. However, this worsening should only last a couple of weeks at most. Beyond this, if I were to feel worse, I would have discontinued it.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by garnet71 on April 15, 2009, at 0:59:59
In reply to These Are Really Down Times For Me, posted by bleauberry on April 13, 2009, at 17:31:24
"Today was hell at work."
(((Bleauberry)))
Hey-give yourself some credit here- you're going to work. I can't go back to work yet thinking I'll come close to a mental breakdown again, so giving you lots of credits here...
You know, I've followed your posts since you came here, and you've always sounded very strong and resilient. You've been through A LOT - and it's not time to give up yet!! So keep your chin up :-)..find that itty bit of faith you got somewhere....and keep fighting.
Don't give into that fear-it can consume you if you give into it. Instead of focusing on the fear-focus on your faith. That's really the thing that keeps you going..You will get through this too-You are a fighter Bleauberry!
ps.
there was an article in the NYT today about people who take antibotics getting infected by another bacteria that emerges from killing off some of the good kind, it's making a lot of people sick. I know you know all about this stuff, but thought I'd mention it in case you missed it.
Posted by jflange on April 15, 2009, at 1:27:01
In reply to These Are Really Down Times For Me, posted by bleauberry on April 13, 2009, at 17:31:24
Even a 7 day course of any antibiotic throws my meds into whack - just ssri and buspar. I usually just grit my teeth and bear it until it's over and then give myself some days to get back to the optimal blood level so I can feel normal again.
I am sorry to hear about your difficulties right now. Still, I wanted to point out that if you took parnate in the midst of your tetra or doxy course, then it may not have worked because of interactions with the antibiotics. No doctor has ever confirmed this for me, but there's no mistaking the feeling of an interaction. Perhaps Parnate will work again for you once the antibiotics have cleared from your system.
Still, I am hoping there is a way for you to treat the Lyme's and steer clear of depression too.
I wish you all the luck!
jflange
Posted by Sigismund on April 17, 2009, at 16:06:47
In reply to These Are Really Down Times For Me, posted by bleauberry on April 13, 2009, at 17:31:24
>but I swear these cycline ABs have effects in the brain.
Can tetracycline give you tinnitus?
I think I've heard that.
Posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on April 19, 2009, at 13:50:44
In reply to Re: These Are Really Down Times For Me » Zana, posted by bleauberry on April 14, 2009, at 15:55:46
bleauberry, my heart breaks for you. I am in the same boat as you--my body so sensitive to meds, and I have now I suppose treatment-resistant depression. it is no shame to have to reach out; we all need and give, need and give--it is being human. sometimes in needing, you actually give. for instance, hearing your troubles normalizes my experiences. doesn't make them any easier, but it does get me out of my bubble, my "poor me, this is only happening to me" solipsism. please take care, stay strong.
Posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on April 19, 2009, at 13:54:19
In reply to Re: These Are Really Down Times For Me » Zana, posted by bleauberry on April 14, 2009, at 15:55:46
bleauberry, my heart breaks for you. I am in the same boat as you--my body so sensitive to meds, and I have now I suppose treatment-resistant depression. it is no shame to have to reach out; we all need and give, need and give--it is being human. sometimes in needing, you actually give. for instance, hearing your troubles normalizes my experiences. doesn't make them any easier, but it does get me out of my bubble, my "poor me, this is only happening to me" solipsism. please take care, stay strong.
Posted by Jeroen on April 19, 2009, at 14:23:52
In reply to These Are Really Down Times For Me, posted by bleauberry on April 13, 2009, at 17:31:24
hi B, you feel lost too don't you?
i noticed you give me advice and nice words too on my posts
these are dark times for us all :(
i have a tear in my eye while typing this, don't give up, we are your friends all here (i hope so)
This is the end of the thread.
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