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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Drew stat on March 28, 2009, at 16:20:15
Have been taking ativan 1mg 2X a day realizing now I am dependent after having horrible time trying to just stop it. Everything I have read seems to suggest switching to valium then a slow taper. My question is can you directly switch to an equivalent dose of valium from ativan?? please advise!
Posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 16:29:41
In reply to to get off ativan can you switch directly valium, posted by Drew stat on March 28, 2009, at 16:20:15
This isnt recommended as not all benzo's are created equal. Ashton's manual for benzodiazepine withdrawal explains in detail how to get off ativan using valium.
The site is here: http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/
Under "Chapter II. Slow withdrawal schedules" you will find a chart with the title:
"Schedule 3. Withdrawal from lorazepam (Ativan) 6mg daily with diazepam (Valium) substitution. (6mg lorazepam is approximately equivalent to 60mg diazepam"
This will guide you step by step (day by day) using valium to slowly decrease the ativan replacing it with valium then decreasing the valium. It's a long road but I've heard many success stories with this strategy.
myco
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> Have been taking ativan 1mg 2X a day realizing now I am dependent after having horrible time trying to just stop it. Everything I have read seems to suggest switching to valium then a slow taper. My question is can you directly switch to an equivalent dose of valium from ativan?? please advise!
Posted by Drew stat on March 28, 2009, at 16:37:15
In reply to Re: to get off ativan can you switch directly valium » Drew stat, posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 16:29:41
Yeah i have read that. it just seems like its too long I mean i have taken the drug for 4 weeks and it could take me 6-7 months to get off?
Posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 16:45:17
In reply to Re: to get off ativan can you switch directly valium, posted by Drew stat on March 28, 2009, at 16:37:15
Well yes and no. That is designed for hardcore users who have been on there for years...I think that is what Dr. Ashton's specialities (or one of them) is...providing information and guidance to correct the overuse of benzo's...usage that sees some patients on them for many years. Withdrawal after that long can be hazardous to some patients health.
What symptoms are you experiencing when coming off or trying to come off ativan? Are you using it as a sleep aid entirely? For panic/anxiety as needed? Have you become "psychologically" in need of it...i.e. taking it throughout the day regardless of situations?
You may just have to choke up some of the pain when coming off...you can use tiny bits of valium or restoril to help cut the side effects you get from ativan if you want to come off quick. You can also add another anxiolytic such as neurontin or lyrica or seroquel or various herbals/sups to help ease the tension. Considering 4 weeks is all youve taken it for...your withdrawal will not likely be as severe as it could be so you could probably go more aggressively at the taper...just watch the sides as you go. Start cutting down then when you feel like sh*t add a lil valium or whatever anxiolytic you choose then wait a few days then go again. It's gonna be bumpy but a low dose after 4 weeks will be ok...I doubt youre gonna run into seizures or anything. Probably nasty insomnia and rebound anxiety/sweats etc. You could probably do this in a week or 2 just take it at the speed you can handle.
> Yeah i have read that. it just seems like its too long I mean i have taken the drug for 4 weeks and it could take me 6-7 months to get off?
Posted by Drew stat on March 28, 2009, at 17:10:23
In reply to Re: to get off ativan can you switch directly valium » Drew stat, posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 16:45:17
I took the ativan to help get with the withdrawal off antidepressant. one addiction to the next. I have only ever had moderate OCD and want to handle it with therapy.
Tuesday I tried going off it totally( I didn't realize 3.5 weeks was enough for dependence) horrible withdrawal, pacing-panic attacks- brain felt weird- terrible depression-felt like i was going crazy. I must say I am very med sensitive. Not until last night did I realize I will just have to go to my 1mg 2X a day again. I am seeing a specialist Tuesday to help.
I guess I am just very disheartened that to get off one drug i am on a new one that seems even harder to get off. Reading that slooow titration method is even more depressing as you said because at a relatively low dose for less than a month going that slow will take forever and the WHOLE IDEA WAS TO GET OFF MEDS!!!
Posted by Phillipa on March 28, 2009, at 17:29:49
In reply to Re: to get off ativan can you switch directly valium, posted by Drew stat on March 28, 2009, at 17:10:23
Drew in the past before internet I'd just switch from one to the other. Example worked in rehab a girl drank a bottle of liquor a day and was on 6mg of xanax a day and felt nothing from it she was given valium in high dose and each day it was withdrawn over a period of a few days. The long life of valium helps. Phillipa
Posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 17:44:43
In reply to Re: to get off ativan can you switch directly valium, posted by Drew stat on March 28, 2009, at 17:10:23
Hey Drew,
Youre almost there. You went cold turkey...you learned a lesson. I dont think you need a specialist for this but it couldnt hurt. Just take you ativan as you have it now and cut it into 3rds or 4ths and take 2/3 or 3/4 for a few days then go again...until you hit sides. then stop wait....go up a tiny bit if you must then wait then down again. Use a herbal or something then if you want to avoid meds...I can tell you scullcap tincture (has been used for valium withdrawal), niacinimade (part of vitamin B3) has benzo affinities and can be useful, magnesium citrate - again benzo affinities. You can do this without more meds but it just makes it easier. Common sense my friend....listen to your body. You are not that far from being med free so dont cave under anxiety or depression yet ok...fight it youre nearly there. Then you will feel so much better that you beat it. Just DONT do the cold turkey thing ok...john wayne is dead and W is out of office...we dont need more cowboys.
myco
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> I took the ativan to help get with the withdrawal off antidepressant. one addiction to the next. I have only ever had moderate OCD and want to handle it with therapy.
>
> Tuesday I tried going off it totally( I didn't realize 3.5 weeks was enough for dependence) horrible withdrawal, pacing-panic attacks- brain felt weird- terrible depression-felt like i was going crazy. I must say I am very med sensitive. Not until last night did I realize I will just have to go to my 1mg 2X a day again. I am seeing a specialist Tuesday to help.
> I guess I am just very disheartened that to get off one drug i am on a new one that seems even harder to get off. Reading that slooow titration method is even more depressing as you said because at a relatively low dose for less than a month going that slow will take forever and the WHOLE IDEA WAS TO GET OFF MEDS!!!
Posted by Drew stat on March 28, 2009, at 18:56:07
In reply to Re: to get off ativan can you switch directly valium » Drew stat, posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 17:44:43
Thank you both for your help. I just have to have faith i'm almost there. that's just hard to have when your in the middle of serious benzo withdrawal. taking it again tonight I feel much better. I am praying that doing it slower will not be so much like being in hell.
Posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 19:11:01
In reply to Re: to get off ativan can you switch directly valium, posted by Drew stat on March 28, 2009, at 18:56:07
Drew,
I can guarantee based on the time you used it (4 wks) and the low dose....taking it slow will not be like the hell you endured cold turkey. Don't cave ok. I know its hard to have faith like you said in the middle of withdrawal but take it slow, chin up and dont cave. Listen to your body...add supplements like i mentioned in last post or a lil restoril or valium or go down then add just a tiny smidgen of ativan when you feel crappy the continue down.
If the pills are small to break up properly...experiment with dissolution. Figure out through trial and error if they dissolve in juice or water....if they do. Measure a certain quantity of juice/water...dissolve one pill in it then you can aliquot (remove/measure out) portions as needed...you will have exact doses there...then put rest of liquid in fridge. Ive done this with other meds in past. works good just need a wee bit of experimentation.
> Thank you both for your help. I just have to have faith i'm almost there. that's just hard to have when your in the middle of serious benzo withdrawal. taking it again tonight I feel much better. I am praying that doing it slower will not be so much like being in hell.
Posted by Drew stat on March 28, 2009, at 22:20:31
In reply to Re: to get off ativan can you switch directly valium » Drew stat, posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 19:11:01
the funny thing i realized today is that while the withdrawal is terrible, now that my OCD is not being treated with any meds for the first time- its been out of control and I have been obsessing about this all and its making it much worse.
I needed to get off anafranil that had sooo many side effects. But i suspect starting luvox again,that helped me ocd most in the past, and taking it slow- I hope I can cut 20% a week and be done with the ativan in 6 weeks or so...it won't be so bad. I'm just dissapointed, i really hoped I could go off meds and handle my ocd without them.
Posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 23:00:04
In reply to Re: to get off ativan can you switch directly valium, posted by Drew stat on March 28, 2009, at 22:20:31
>"I'm just dissapointed, i really hoped I could go off meds and handle my ocd without them. "
Like I've told other here....just give it a slight adjustment in perception here. Consider your meds a "bandaid" ok...you put that bandaid on until you heal some situation for some time then you take it off and go alone again until that "wound" opens up again and you put the bandaid back on. So dont think you dont need meds or dont want to be on meds for life etc...you have to be...use them to allow yourself to heal in periods of extreme issues then dump them until such a time you need them again. This way of thinking adjusts a slight negative ideation of medications to a positive.
Or am I misreading you Drew?...perhaps its now time you want to "take off the bandaid" and cant or are finding it difficult?
myco
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Posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 23:02:33
In reply to Re: to get off ativan can you switch directly valium » Drew stat, posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 23:00:04
Bah I suck at grammar and spelling:
...on meds for life etc...you DON'T have to be...use them to allow yourself to heal...
> >"I'm just dissapointed, i really hoped I could go off meds and handle my ocd without them. "
>
> Like I've told other here....just give it a slight adjustment in perception here. Consider your meds a "bandaid" ok...you put that bandaid on until you heal some situation for some time then you take it off and go alone again until that "wound" opens up again and you put the bandaid back on. So dont think you dont need meds or dont want to be on meds for life etc...you have to be...use them to allow yourself to heal in periods of extreme issues then dump them until such a time you need them again. This way of thinking adjusts a slight negative ideation of medications to a positive.
>
> Or am I misreading you Drew?...perhaps its now time you want to "take off the bandaid" and cant or are finding it difficult?
>
> myco
>
> ------------
>
>
Posted by Drew stat on March 29, 2009, at 2:18:45
In reply to Re: to get off ativan can you switch directly valium » myco, posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 23:02:33
I'm not really sure whats going on to be honest. I want to be off meds and deal with ocd with therapy but what i am going through is so scary I don't know if its making my ocd worse or my worse ocd is making the withdraw so hard if that makes sense. It's just so up and down all day, times of feeling okay to feeling suicidally depressed. I know this is due to the ativan so I'm trying to push through. I know ativan is only suppose to work 8 hours and I think at the end of that period i'm withdrawing until i take it again and it builds up and then i withdrawal again. I hope that is what it is and if I switch to valium it will be more constant less scary/depressing/up-and-down. but like i said seeing specialist tuesday just gotta hold in there!!!
Posted by myco on March 29, 2009, at 4:09:23
In reply to Re: to get off ativan can you switch directly valium, posted by Drew stat on March 29, 2009, at 2:18:45
You'll do fine...you have the right attitude and a clear head to guide you through. Short term goal: get to the specialist "in one piece" lol...thats an easy one.
> I'm not really sure whats going on to be honest. I want to be off meds and deal with ocd with therapy but what i am going through is so scary I don't know if its making my ocd worse or my worse ocd is making the withdraw so hard if that makes sense. It's just so up and down all day, times of feeling okay to feeling suicidally depressed. I know this is due to the ativan so I'm trying to push through. I know ativan is only suppose to work 8 hours and I think at the end of that period i'm withdrawing until i take it again and it builds up and then i withdrawal again. I hope that is what it is and if I switch to valium it will be more constant less scary/depressing/up-and-down. but like i said seeing specialist tuesday just gotta hold in there!!!
Posted by Drew stat on March 29, 2009, at 5:33:02
In reply to Re: to get off ativan can you switch directly valium » Drew stat, posted by myco on March 29, 2009, at 4:09:23
its just not going to be easy, here I am not able to sleep again for like the 3rd night this week. and I realize how I am dosing the ativan is causing def inter-dosing problems so i expect the next two days to be bad.
Posted by myco on March 29, 2009, at 12:18:56
In reply to Re: to get off ativan can you switch directly valium, posted by Drew stat on March 29, 2009, at 5:33:02
Try another approach if you feel you are having difficulties beyond what you can handle in strides...go back to a dose of ativan that makes you feel comfy...ok...the minimum dose before you feel crappy....stay there until you meet specialist. Being in front of that specialist will give you added positive thinking ability...that will energive and give you drive to continue on...a good positive caring dr will do that for you...subconsciously..."you put your life in their hands", so to speak. I think that relationship will do good for your mood and drive to get through
> its just not going to be easy, here I am not able to sleep again for like the 3rd night this week. and I realize how I am dosing the ativan is causing def inter-dosing problems so i expect the next two days to be bad.
Posted by manic666 on March 29, 2009, at 13:16:04
In reply to Re: to get off ativan can you switch directly valium » Drew stat, posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 23:00:04
remember my 10mg a day ativan habit .an i think its more 1mg ativan equals 7 mg valium ,the doc will say 5. anyway the doc stopped mine dead ? also the bottle of brandy i was drinking a day. now that is a withdrawl , after going into melt down i was taken to the gp, who rang the hospital as i was shakeing off the chair an said what valium can i give him , they said 40mg a day an give hime 30mg now ,that night i was in hospital with convultions,the next day i overdosed an was admitted to mental ward,any way we no all that but i came out hospital worse than went in on 6mg of valium a day ,the shrink didnt believe i was takeing 10mg ativan .my gp saved my life an put me back on 4 mg,all he could prescribe, so in thery now i with draw cold 6 mg ativan , im still here but damaged, months of living death in my bedroom , but stable now on 4mg , im not in no hurry to loose them , you wont find that withdrawl in any books
Posted by myco on March 29, 2009, at 14:20:11
In reply to dont try this withdrawl it may kill you, posted by manic666 on March 29, 2009, at 13:16:04
Manic,
You stopped a benzo cold turkey? wow you are either a brave man. Those are some bollocks you've got.
> remember my 10mg a day ativan habit .an i think its more 1mg ativan equals 7 mg valium ,the doc will say 5. anyway the doc stopped mine dead ? also the bottle of brandy i was drinking a day. now that is a withdrawl , after going into melt down i was taken to the gp, who rang the hospital as i was shakeing off the chair an said what valium can i give him , they said 40mg a day an give hime 30mg now ,that night i was in hospital with convultions,the next day i overdosed an was admitted to mental ward,any way we no all that but i came out hospital worse than went in on 6mg of valium a day ,the shrink didnt believe i was takeing 10mg ativan .my gp saved my life an put me back on 4 mg,all he could prescribe, so in thery now i with draw cold 6 mg ativan , im still here but damaged, months of living death in my bedroom , but stable now on 4mg , im not in no hurry to loose them , you wont find that withdrawl in any books
Posted by manic666 on March 30, 2009, at 6:07:55
In reply to Re: dont try this withdrawl it may kill you » manic666, posted by myco on March 29, 2009, at 14:20:11
i only went cold with ativan. because i had no choise, i told him i was on 10mg an he didnt believe me , i was prescibed at the hospital and at the gp ,double scripts but no one took the blaim , so covered themselves by saying i didnt have that many to take ten . i had more it was me who stopped at ten,the 10 an the bottle of brandy would have killed a horse ,it didnt even touch me,they discharged me from hos after a week as a cover up for negligence ,i had to drink vodka to stay on the planet , at this time i was out off hospital with no loz 225 velafaxine that was on my gp reports as a none starter,my last ghance was to ask the gp to put me back on ativan or i will die,he gave me the 4mg a day,the minuite i took one an felt a responce i new i had a chance all be a painfull one , so yes i detoxed the ven an shed 6 ativan an survived on 4 . the hospital releast me to die to cover there ballsup,i carnt sue them as they close ranks an no laywer will take them on.
This is the end of the thread.
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