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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by AdamCanada2 on March 5, 2009, at 19:13:31
My symptoms: Severe Treatment Resistant Depression with Melancholonia. Social Anxiety, low mood/drive/motivation/enjoyment/productivity/energy/Burning head pains.
On Parnate + Ritalin + valium all of it is reduced but much still remains expecially at 30mg. I been on 30mg for 6 days now. Before that I was on 25mg for 7 days or more and prior to that 20mg for a while. Sleep is easier, 25mg Seroquel helps at bed time. Initially 30mg Parnate gave me some daytime sedation (prior to taking any Seroquel) and I felt like napping during the day. But also noticed 2nd day of 30g darker vision, lower mood, less social, quite less sex drive, mind is much less active! A lot of what kept me up during 10-20-25mg Parnate was that my mind would have flowing thoughts consistently throughout the day and night and therefor incredibly difficult to sleep. But I dont feel that and you know what? I miss that kind of feeling. I feel cloudy headed. It is harder to concentrate. More difficult to think and even the ritalin 5mg 3-4 times a day has less of an effect than it used to.
Is this how it normally should be? Plus I get a lot of dizziness at times if I stand up too suddenly from say a kneeling position (reaching for shampoo etc).
Perhaps around 20mg Parnate is the magic number for me but it was by no means anything near remission. Also normally when I raise my parnate dose I get a sudden strong lift in mood that subsides the next day. I never felt that when I moved up to 30mg.
Pls offer any advice because I am willing to keep trying on this 30mg and see how it goes but it is really compromising my ability to make plans with individuals and I am finding myself cancelling this, cancelling that, the one good thing is that it's easier to sleep.
Posted by shasling on March 5, 2009, at 19:47:03
In reply to 30mg Parnate not as good as 20mg? :( Advice plssss, posted by AdamCanada2 on March 5, 2009, at 19:13:31
Im quite surprised you were given ritalin with parnate.Please be careful because ritlain can accumalte with parnate.
Also just a personal note,i had the combo and it killed the parnate,a better combo is parnate/vivarin but thats just my personal experiance.
> My symptoms: Severe Treatment Resistant Depression with Melancholonia. Social Anxiety, low mood/drive/motivation/enjoyment/productivity/energy/Burning head pains.
>
> On Parnate + Ritalin + valium all of it is reduced but much still remains expecially at 30mg. I been on 30mg for 6 days now. Before that I was on 25mg for 7 days or more and prior to that 20mg for a while. Sleep is easier, 25mg Seroquel helps at bed time. Initially 30mg Parnate gave me some daytime sedation (prior to taking any Seroquel) and I felt like napping during the day. But also noticed 2nd day of 30g darker vision, lower mood, less social, quite less sex drive, mind is much less active! A lot of what kept me up during 10-20-25mg Parnate was that my mind would have flowing thoughts consistently throughout the day and night and therefor incredibly difficult to sleep. But I dont feel that and you know what? I miss that kind of feeling. I feel cloudy headed. It is harder to concentrate. More difficult to think and even the ritalin 5mg 3-4 times a day has less of an effect than it used to.
>
> Is this how it normally should be? Plus I get a lot of dizziness at times if I stand up too suddenly from say a kneeling position (reaching for shampoo etc).
>
> Perhaps around 20mg Parnate is the magic number for me but it was by no means anything near remission. Also normally when I raise my parnate dose I get a sudden strong lift in mood that subsides the next day. I never felt that when I moved up to 30mg.
>
> Pls offer any advice because I am willing to keep trying on this 30mg and see how it goes but it is really compromising my ability to make plans with individuals and I am finding myself cancelling this, cancelling that, the one good thing is that it's easier to sleep.
Posted by myco on March 5, 2009, at 20:34:27
In reply to Re: 30mg Parnate not as good as 20mg? :( Advice plssss, posted by shasling on March 5, 2009, at 19:47:03
Adam,
I'm glad that your med regimen is having some positives finally...but 6 day adam?...way to soon man. You're still in the side effect cloud from dose adjustments. Wait it out plus you will most likely need more than 30. Just hang in there and be prepared, for the next month or two, to do some more adjusting to various doses. It will work out in the end. The dizzyness is low blood pressure most likely, common on maois. If it's a huge pain for you, you can raise it slightly with a lil salt. But you shouldnt mess with bp on parnate though...it will re-equilibrate over time.
> Im quite surprised you were given ritalin with parnate.Please be careful because ritlain can accumalte with parnate.
>
> Also just a personal note,i had the combo and it killed the parnate,a better combo is parnate/vivarin but thats just my personal experiance.
>
>
>
> > My symptoms: Severe Treatment Resistant Depression with Melancholonia. Social Anxiety, low mood/drive/motivation/enjoyment/productivity/energy/Burning head pains.
> >
> > On Parnate + Ritalin + valium all of it is reduced but much still remains expecially at 30mg. I been on 30mg for 6 days now. Before that I was on 25mg for 7 days or more and prior to that 20mg for a while. Sleep is easier, 25mg Seroquel helps at bed time. Initially 30mg Parnate gave me some daytime sedation (prior to taking any Seroquel) and I felt like napping during the day. But also noticed 2nd day of 30g darker vision, lower mood, less social, quite less sex drive, mind is much less active! A lot of what kept me up during 10-20-25mg Parnate was that my mind would have flowing thoughts consistently throughout the day and night and therefor incredibly difficult to sleep. But I dont feel that and you know what? I miss that kind of feeling. I feel cloudy headed. It is harder to concentrate. More difficult to think and even the ritalin 5mg 3-4 times a day has less of an effect than it used to.
> >
> > Is this how it normally should be? Plus I get a lot of dizziness at times if I stand up too suddenly from say a kneeling position (reaching for shampoo etc).
> >
> > Perhaps around 20mg Parnate is the magic number for me but it was by no means anything near remission. Also normally when I raise my parnate dose I get a sudden strong lift in mood that subsides the next day. I never felt that when I moved up to 30mg.
> >
> > Pls offer any advice because I am willing to keep trying on this 30mg and see how it goes but it is really compromising my ability to make plans with individuals and I am finding myself cancelling this, cancelling that, the one good thing is that it's easier to sleep.
>
>
Posted by AdamCanada2 on March 7, 2009, at 3:41:07
In reply to Re: 30mg Parnate not as good as 20mg? :( Advice plssss, posted by shasling on March 5, 2009, at 19:47:03
:(
ritalin + parnate actually works well for me except ritalin often becomes subdued in it's effect.
how did u manage to get vivarint? my doctor told me they took it off the market everywhere including france, is he a lying?
> Im quite surprised you were given ritalin with parnate.Please be careful because ritlain can accumalte with parnate.
>
> Also just a personal note,i had the combo and it killed the parnate,a better combo is parnate/vivarin but thats just my personal experiance.
>
>
>
> > My symptoms: Severe Treatment Resistant Depression with Melancholonia. Social Anxiety, low mood/drive/motivation/enjoyment/productivity/energy/Burning head pains.
> >
> > On Parnate + Ritalin + valium all of it is reduced but much still remains expecially at 30mg. I been on 30mg for 6 days now. Before that I was on 25mg for 7 days or more and prior to that 20mg for a while. Sleep is easier, 25mg Seroquel helps at bed time. Initially 30mg Parnate gave me some daytime sedation (prior to taking any Seroquel) and I felt like napping during the day. But also noticed 2nd day of 30g darker vision, lower mood, less social, quite less sex drive, mind is much less active! A lot of what kept me up during 10-20-25mg Parnate was that my mind would have flowing thoughts consistently throughout the day and night and therefor incredibly difficult to sleep. But I dont feel that and you know what? I miss that kind of feeling. I feel cloudy headed. It is harder to concentrate. More difficult to think and even the ritalin 5mg 3-4 times a day has less of an effect than it used to.
> >
> > Is this how it normally should be? Plus I get a lot of dizziness at times if I stand up too suddenly from say a kneeling position (reaching for shampoo etc).
> >
> > Perhaps around 20mg Parnate is the magic number for me but it was by no means anything near remission. Also normally when I raise my parnate dose I get a sudden strong lift in mood that subsides the next day. I never felt that when I moved up to 30mg.
> >
> > Pls offer any advice because I am willing to keep trying on this 30mg and see how it goes but it is really compromising my ability to make plans with individuals and I am finding myself cancelling this, cancelling that, the one good thing is that it's easier to sleep.
>
>
Posted by bleauberry on March 7, 2009, at 18:31:17
In reply to 30mg Parnate not as good as 20mg? :( Advice plssss, posted by AdamCanada2 on March 5, 2009, at 19:13:31
> Perhaps around 20mg Parnate is the magic number for me but it was by no means anything near remission. Also normally when I raise my parnate dose I get a sudden strong lift in mood that subsides the next day. I never felt that when I moved up to 30mg.
>You took the words out of my mouth. Maybe the lower dose is your therapeutic window. I mean, after all, we are talking about you, not anyone else on this planet. What works for you works for you and that's that. End of story.
I just wanted to reiterate something I know you already know. That is, it takes a long time for meds to cause the brain adaptations that are involved with improvement. Especially for those of us like you and me that have been in this game a long time. I believe the longer this has been going on, the longer it is going to take for a good med to really get good. I'm talking minimum 12 weeks, more improvement at 16 weeks, and actually we are talking about half a year to get there.
I remember one longterm study on Cymbalta where those who were responders at 12 weeks were maintained for a year to see what happened. During that year most of them continued to improve more and more. Too slow and subtle to notice day by day or even week by week, but after a year looking backwards, they came a long way. I think it is like that with a lot of meds when they work.
Kind of unrelated, but a clinical study showed that 50mg Milnacipran worked just as good as 100mg, BUT it took longer. Same thing with Zoloft in studies.
I disagree with the notion of shooting for whatever target dose is "supposed" to be appropriate. According to who? Prove it? Nobody gets well at any other dose? Ya know? Those target doses are generalistic and certainly do not apply to every person.
Real story. A girl at another forum is very well on 3mg Lexapro liquid. Yeah, 3mg. At 4mg she gets more depressed. At 2mg her depression isn't fixed. 3mg is perfect.
Enuf said. That's the way it is. If the whole theory of chemical imbalance is correct, well, we don't know how far out of balance it is from person to person. We think it might be related to how severe the symptoms are, but that isn't true. That girl who only needs 3mg Lexapro was just as depressed as someone else who needs 40mg.
Anyway, my opinion only, and I could be wrong, maybe the best thing at this time is not more dose, but more time. Let Parnate do its thing. Mark a date on your calendar for about a month from now and take a look at things then. Until then, just make the most out of the gains you have made thus far, hour by hour and day by day, as that will also help push the med and more gains in the right direction.
Posted by Sigismund on March 9, 2009, at 0:23:51
In reply to Re: 30mg Parnate not as good as 20mg? :( Advice plssss » AdamCanada2, posted by bleauberry on March 7, 2009, at 18:31:17
I think vivarin may be caffeine in tablet form.
This is the end of the thread.
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