![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 94. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sam K on January 31, 2009, at 20:14:14
who here drinks alcohol? whether wine, beer, whatever. Why do you drink it? What's your opinion of it? health wise? Does it make you feel better? Do you drink to get drunk or just socially and feel mellow?
I drank a bit last night when I went out and felt okay, I drank hardly anything. I'm pretty sensitive and I'm pretty cautious. My doctor is an ex alcoholic so he's always telling me how it's bad. To me it seems like coffee. Coffee makes me feel good, gets me moving and anti fatigue. While making me talk some more which is an added bonus. I think theres alcoholism in my family though. But theyre all depressed so they get trashed. I'm sure if they took medicine they wouldn't drink alchy like it was a medicine.
I am completly against pot/marijuana though. There is nothing good or any mood or part of the day for that. Maybe at some crazy indian ceromony. haha. But when I'm around it, I can feel my eyes droop, I get mellow, and I start to have derealization.(which could be an anxiety response to it) But anyway marijuana is just to weird for me. I'm already weird, I don't need anymore. Plus you get a different high everytime. And you know what's completley ridiculous is that people say they don't even like doing it or feel guilty after doing it. They say they would rather not smoke. How ridiculous. And it's a waste of alot of money. You never know what youre going to get with pot. And worst, it can be laced with other stuff. How disgusiting...
Well looking forward to what ya say
Posted by sam K on January 31, 2009, at 23:34:36
In reply to alcohol, posted by sam K on January 31, 2009, at 20:14:14
i sort of regret posting this....
Posted by Justherself54 on January 31, 2009, at 23:41:15
In reply to Re: alcohol, posted by sam K on January 31, 2009, at 23:34:36
That's OK..eventually most everyone posts something they regret!
Posted by Phillipa on February 1, 2009, at 0:11:31
In reply to Re: alcohol, posted by Justherself54 on January 31, 2009, at 23:41:15
Well Sam the truth for me is that for years drank 4-6 coronas at night after work and didn't need only a wee bit of benzos no fear felt great the next day and functioned great. I worked and laughed. Only drank before bed after work. Slept well also. No hangover as knew my limits and didn't need more it was when I stopped felt like the pits. 14 yesrs not Drinking and of feeling bad. That's me. Love Phillipa
Posted by raisinb on February 1, 2009, at 11:25:39
In reply to alcohol, posted by sam K on January 31, 2009, at 20:14:14
This is a big topic for me. For years when I was having a very hard time with depression and anxiety (and therapy) I drank a lot. Every night I had at least two or three drinks and got pretty trashed by myself at least two nights a week. I noticed that after I went on meds and got a lot better, I could enjoy drinking, but didn't need to because I didn't have that horrible anxiety all the time.
Now that I am on 2 different SSRIs I don't drink that much just because the hangovers are a lot worse. I get bad headaches. Also it doesn't seem like drinking works like it used to.
I'm not sure whether drinking a lot made me more depressed or not. There was probably a cyclical thing going on.
I definitely had times when I had trouble controlling my drinking, and I had some very destructive consequences.
When my insomnia isn't under control, I also drink a lot more. I get so tired and panicky and angry when I can't sleep for many nights in a row--and nothing is working--that I get drunk in order to get away from those feelings.
Luckily medication is working fairly well for that now, too.
Posted by Connor on February 1, 2009, at 23:40:42
In reply to alcohol, posted by sam K on January 31, 2009, at 20:14:14
I completely disagree with you view on pot. I have never had pot laced with anything, nor have I heard anyone who experienced it being laced with something. Furthermore, while the high can vary depending on the strand it's generally going to be the same thing. You're taking a much bigger risk with alochol then you are with marijuana( no one has ever died from marijuana). I can understand why some people don't like the high that marijuana gives you though
Posted by sam K on February 2, 2009, at 9:26:03
In reply to Re: alcohol, posted by Connor on February 1, 2009, at 23:40:42
ya everybodys different and ya Im just one of those people though. I used to smoke alot and I mean alot and it was okay but after a while it wasnt good.
Yeah, my brother smokes alot and he likes it (says he does). But he's an angry type of person. He's really irritable about really little things. So when he smokes he loses all that about him, seems like. He says its the only thing that works. But hes a druggie so hes just self medicating which isnt good.
Posted by Connor on February 2, 2009, at 13:17:24
In reply to Re: alcohol, posted by sam K on February 2, 2009, at 9:26:03
Self medication isn't good? By whose standards? There are cancer patients who "self medicate" with marijuana. Without it they would suffer crippling nausea and an extreme loss of appetite. Because it's illegal in most states they can't get a doctors prescription. If it works for him, and keeps him calm, what's the problem?
Posted by sam K on February 2, 2009, at 14:31:42
In reply to Re: alcohol, posted by Connor on February 2, 2009, at 13:17:24
can't they get marinol or some synthetic THC stuff? I agree with you. But for some reason self medication to me isnt right. If marijuana cured anger and stuff then they'd probably approve it in the FDA. You seem like a smart person so I won't argue with you.
The problem is life isnt about getting fuc*ed up all the time. You have to be able to go through pains and realize you can't be perfect. You can't just avoid feelings and run all the time. Hey I escape too, but I don't get fuc*ed up.
^my opinion, but hey I might be talking out of my as*. maybe I need to be more compassionate towards people drugs wise.
I took acid once and I developed major depression, anxiety, my shyness went to a whole different level, I avoided all contact pretty much. and I had some post LSD stuff like seeing things. (which was very distressing, but Im pretty much over it)
well Ill type more later
Posted by Connor on February 2, 2009, at 16:51:36
In reply to Re: alcohol, posted by sam K on February 2, 2009, at 14:31:42
The alternatives to cannibas are not as effective, they're much more expensive, there are many, many other problems with it as well.
The FDA will not approve marijuana if it cured aids. It's been shown to be effective in treating the symptoms for a myriad of diseases but because of politics it has not been utilized.
You say LSD made your problems worse, I can point to people who say LSD saved them by changing them in a positive way. Furthermore I can point to people say psychiatric treatment made there problems worse. Drugs are drugs, and just because it is given to you a doctor, or because it is legal/illegal does not make a difference in whether or not it's effective or dangerous.
I agree with what you say, ideally you should have to deal with your problems without drugs. But obviously we know, some conditions require outside intervention. If someone smoking a little weed helps make life more manageable, then I see no problem with that. The funny thing about it is that many psychiatrists would condemn this. But, if I went to one and complained about anxiety I would more likely then not walk out with a prescription for an ssri, maybe a benzo - people have been crippled with these drugs much more so then marijuana. If I had used marijuana to combat anxiety issues I would be much better off then using SSRI's to combat my problems.
> can't they get marinol or some synthetic THC stuff? I agree with you. But for some reason self medication to me isnt right. If marijuana cured anger and stuff then they'd probably approve it in the FDA. You seem like a smart person so I won't argue with you.
> The problem is life isnt about getting fuc*ed up all the time. You have to be able to go through pains and realize you can't be perfect. You can't just avoid feelings and run all the time. Hey I escape too, but I don't get fuc*ed up.
> ^my opinion, but hey I might be talking out of my as*. maybe I need to be more compassionate towards people drugs wise.
> I took acid once and I developed major depression, anxiety, my shyness went to a whole different level, I avoided all contact pretty much. and I had some post LSD stuff like seeing things. (which was very distressing, but Im pretty much over it)
> well Ill type more later
>
Posted by seldomseen on February 2, 2009, at 17:44:30
In reply to Re: alcohol, posted by Connor on February 1, 2009, at 23:40:42
I'm not quite so sure that marijuana is necessarily low risk. I found this review article to be very evenhanded about the medical risk (at least cardiological risk) associated with marijuana use.
If you would like the entire article, babblemail me and I will get it to you.
Seldom.
Posted by Connor on February 2, 2009, at 23:44:38
In reply to Re: alcohol » Connor, posted by seldomseen on February 2, 2009, at 17:44:30
Ya, that right there doesn't really give any information since it's just the summary. Of course it's not completely safe but compared to many of the legal drugs and prescription drugs I would say it's one of the safest drugs you can use.
> I'm not quite so sure that marijuana is necessarily low risk. I found this review article to be very evenhanded about the medical risk (at least cardiological risk) associated with marijuana use.
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17005273?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
>
> If you would like the entire article, babblemail me and I will get it to you.
>
> Seldom.
Posted by Neal on February 7, 2009, at 3:10:20
In reply to Re: alcohol, posted by Connor on February 2, 2009, at 23:44:38
just my experience:
I was smoking pot when I had a panic-attack. I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole now. And I had smoked for years before this, although not heavily.
Alcohol can be OK in moderation but, if you really think it might be the answer, read William Styron's "Darkness Visible" first.
And also consider that the alcohol that "gets you there" today is the alcohol that you'll need every day someday. Read Michael J. Fox's book "Lucky Man" first. He loved his alcohol.
When he finally threw-in the towel and told his wife he had a problem with alcohol; he, being a film and TV star, had the money and time to see therapists and go to AA for years. If you're not rich or famous, you may be out of luck.
Also consider: For most people, alcohol is a depressant, after the initial buzz wears off.
I've lost too much money with "made hands" in poker. I don't feel that lucky anymore.
_________________________________
Posted by desolationrower on February 16, 2009, at 3:07:40
In reply to Re: alcohol, posted by Connor on February 2, 2009, at 23:44:38
well i have a pint sometimes. alcohol doesn't really do much to me mentally. getting pissed can be fun, but its too much work the next day. in 2-3 drink/day levels, it has positive effects on some blood lipid levels, and some positives and negatives on brain health. most of the bad stuff can be reduced quite a lot, except for some slight increase in cancer risk, not much to do to prevent that. generally you want to avoid dehydration with some osmolytes, magnesium and b-vitamin depletion (actually memantine would probably be even better for the rebound hyperglutamatergic damage), and take some lithium (and a liver protectant if you drink most every day: coffee and lecithin are cheap and effective), and getting hammered is not much harm. some NAC too. probably sleep disruption is the biggest problem. cannabis is a lot safer though, although like everything in life can have some harm. i could post links to studies showing how spinich is bad for you too (not to mention there is a large taxpayer funded pool of money for researchers who will publish studies abotu how bad those evil drugs are). i never noticed alcohol reducing anxiety levels or anything, but when i'm really shitfaced i'll not be able to remember hte start of my sentences so i'll say lots of funny stuff. mostly whisky and ale is just really tasty.
"The problem is life isnt about getting fuc*ed up all the time. You have to be able to go through pains and realize you can't be perfect. You can't just avoid feelings and run all the time. Hey I escape too, but I don't get fuc*ed up."
^this i disagree with: life isn't 'about' anythign, exept what you decide to make it about. ganga is a lot less harmful than tv is.
-d/r
Posted by JadeKelly on February 16, 2009, at 22:51:47
In reply to Re: alcohol, posted by desolationrower on February 16, 2009, at 3:07:40
Okay D/R-we all know you like your ganga.
I actually do feel less anxious after a couple drinks. I never get drunk. Were all gonna sit here and defend the "drug" that works for us.Lets not forget Sam was just trying to express his opinion which he doesn't do often, so if you guys wanna battle it out lets start another thread. He doesn't believe in self medication. Thats a completely legitimate way to feel, and he'll outlive us all and be healthy to boot. Do we really get to tell someone their beliefs are wrong? We can tell em are point of view, we can argue faulty facts. But If I say I BELIEVE people should stay within the law, thats my right to believe that. I don't think Sam was looking for an attack on his belief system.
Please tell me if I'm wrong here Sam, I'm pretty sure you left a while ago, but I hope you'll post again.
Your friend,
~Jade
Posted by sam K on February 16, 2009, at 23:45:52
In reply to Re: alcohol, posted by desolationrower on February 16, 2009, at 3:07:40
lol ya tv is actually harmful. Makes you think everyone is supposed to be perfect and funny.
Weed is bad for the lungs so it's probably harmful. Alcohol just doesn't seem healthy, and like you said it depletes alot of vitimans.
I got so trashed in 8th grade summer the first time I was getting into that stuff. Just so trashed. I was rolling around and couldnt stand up. I didnt have a problem back then with it like I do now. Who knows, there's no point in arguing ya know. Your point is valid about life isnt about anything.
Theres just so many types and personalitys out there and I'm just one to not like alcohol or weed. I'm a healthy guy and i got mental illness and if those drugs seemed healthy when I did them, then I would do them. But they seem messy and just not good for the body
Posted by JadeKelly on February 17, 2009, at 0:05:37
In reply to Re: alcohol, posted by sam K on February 16, 2009, at 23:45:52
> lol ya tv is actually harmful. Makes you think everyone is supposed to be perfect and funny.
> Weed is bad for the lungs so it's probably harmful. Alcohol just doesn't seem healthy, and like you said it depletes alot of vitimans.
> I got so trashed in 8th grade summer the first time I was getting into that stuff. Just so trashed. I was rolling around and couldnt stand up. I didnt have a problem back then with it like I do now. Who knows, there's no point in arguing ya know. Your point is valid about life isnt about anything.
> Theres just so many types and personalitys out there and I'm just one to not like alcohol or weed. I'm a healthy guy and i got mental illness and if those drugs seemed healthy when I did them, then I would do them. But they seem messy and just not good for the body
Well then, D/R will continue to smoke his weed du jour, Jade will continue to have a drink now and then, and Sam will live to be 125.Well done Sam!
~Jade
Posted by Questionmark on February 18, 2009, at 23:00:33
In reply to Re: alcohol, posted by JadeKelly on February 16, 2009, at 22:51:47
Stating how you feel about something for yourself is different than saying you are "against" something in terms of other people. I'm against Remeron-- for myself. I'm not against other people using Remeron. But i think his actual opinion was probably more that it is not good that his brother is "a druggie", whether he (his brother) is trying to self-medicate or not-- something like that maybe (sorry if my assumption is wrong, however). Otherwise yeah i don't quite understand it cuz we're all self-medicating here (or everyone here who is on a drug which is the vast majority if not all).
But yeah the first post was still pretty derogatory and demeaning to cannabis users. I [would] only use cannabis on very rare occasions-- er, would if it were legal (i do not do anything against the law, of course-- and i certainly wouldn't admit to it on a public website), and it has a number of effects on me that i absolutely loathe (or would if i had tried it). Basically, it is far, far, far from my drug of choice. It is near the bottom of the list of my drugs of choice (medicinal or recreational or otherwise). But for god's sake it is one of the least dangerous psychoactive substances in existence. There are numerous groups and people, however, who have an enormous financial interest in keeping cannabis illegal. I'm not talking conspiracy theories here i'm talking about obvious things. And i am not a hippie or a far-left liberal or a pothead (not that there's anything necessarily wrong with them as people of course). No. I just care about fairness and justice and logic. And it is due to nothing other than pure fantastical hypocrisy, misinformation, and irrational traditionalism that cannabis is still illicit-- especially as tobacco, alcohol, and numerous pharmaceuticals are legal.
I could go on about this and all the specifics for .. way too long, but i've already digressed down a mostly irrelevant tangent, so i'll shut up now.
Criticism of cannabis on this board is just the last thing i would expect to see, and is especially [i'll keep it civil] unsettling considering all the powerful, physiologically habit-forming, and far less time-tested pharmaceutical drugs that we poor saps take.
... But, that being said, i'll still take Nardil and coffee over all the weed in the world, any day of the week.
(PS Also of course this is not an attack on you Jade was just commenting on one thing you said.)
> Okay D/R-we all know you like your ganga.
> I actually do feel less anxious after a couple drinks. I never get drunk. Were all gonna sit here and defend the "drug" that works for us.
>
> Lets not forget Sam was just trying to express his opinion which he doesn't do often, so if you guys wanna battle it out lets start another thread. He doesn't believe in self medication. Thats a completely legitimate way to feel, and he'll outlive us all and be healthy to boot. Do we really get to tell someone their beliefs are wrong? We can tell em are point of view, we can argue faulty facts. But If I say I BELIEVE people should stay within the law, thats my right to believe that. I don't think Sam was looking for an attack on his belief system.
>
> Please tell me if I'm wrong here Sam, I'm pretty sure you left a while ago, but I hope you'll post again.
>
> Your friend,
>
> ~Jade
Posted by Questionmark on February 18, 2009, at 23:08:32
In reply to Re: alcohol, posted by desolationrower on February 16, 2009, at 3:07:40
I just wanted to comment that i think this statement is completely true and, although simple, pretty brilliant:
"life isn't 'about' anything, except what you decide to make it about."
- Depressing or encouraging depending on your perspective, but completely true.
>"The problem is life isnt about getting fuc*ed up all the time. You have to be able to go through pains and realize you can't be perfect. You can't just avoid feelings and run all the time. Hey I escape too, but I don't get fuc*ed up."> ^this i disagree with: life isn't 'about' anythign, exept what you decide to make it about. ganga is a lot less harmful than tv is.
>
> -d/r
Posted by JadeKelly on February 19, 2009, at 0:42:07
In reply to In Defense of Cannabis, posted by Questionmark on February 18, 2009, at 23:00:33
Hi Questionmark,
Still trying to figure out which thing it was I said or maybe multiple things! Any way your post sounded right to me so if I was inarticulate (or sloppy) in my posting, my apologies.I actually have no problem with cannabis. I think they have to keep SOMTHING illegal. In fact, I'll go further, I think its safer than alcohol. Maybe it just felt to me that Sam was on the recieving end of somthing he didn't wan't be.
Well, thanks for bring that to my attention ;-)
~Jade
Posted by Questionmark on February 24, 2009, at 0:47:22
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis, posted by JadeKelly on February 19, 2009, at 0:42:07
No sorry i wasn't referring to much of what you said at all. Sorry to Sam if i was too harsh sounding also. No offense intended.
... But yeah i TOTally believe cannabis is safer than alcohol-- for most individuals and definitely absolutely for society as a whole.
> Hi Questionmark,
>
> Still trying to figure out which thing it was I said or maybe multiple things! Any way your post sounded right to me so if I was inarticulate (or sloppy) in my posting, my apologies.I actually have no problem with cannabis. I think they have to keep SOMTHING illegal. In fact, I'll go further, I think its safer than alcohol. Maybe it just felt to me that Sam was on the recieving end of somthing he didn't wan't be.
>
> Well, thanks for bring that to my attention ;-)
>
> ~Jade
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2009, at 6:07:08
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis » JadeKelly, posted by Questionmark on February 24, 2009, at 0:47:22
I don't want to reproduce the whole debate here, but I have researched old Mary Jane, and she has the potential to precipitate psychosis in some individuals. There is also some question that it might accelerate the induction of schizophrenia.
That's all. If people want to debate the issue, I would recommend the Psycho-Babble archives or do some searches on Google and PubMed.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/
- Scott
Posted by sam K on February 24, 2009, at 9:04:32
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis » JadeKelly, posted by Questionmark on February 24, 2009, at 0:47:22
hey question mark
dont worry about it, I understand that ur not trying to be mean. But hey cannabis is probably good for some people. And ya life isnt really about anything in particular. I just type how Im feeling at the time whether or not its true. Thanks for helping me learn that though.
I mean even lately Ive had a self medicating type of thing going. This and that, a dab of this. I cant even help it. So who am I to judge ya know.
Ironically I just got back from jamaica where weed is REAL popular. HAHA i got offered weed so much, like 10 times a day.
Posted by JadeKelly on February 24, 2009, at 18:58:31
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis, posted by sam K on February 24, 2009, at 9:04:32
> hey question mark
> dont worry about it, I understand that ur not trying to be mean. But hey cannabis is probably good for some people. And ya life isnt really about anything in particular. I just type how Im feeling at the time whether or not its true. Thanks for helping me learn that though.
> I mean even lately Ive had a self medicating type of thing going. This and that, a dab of this. I cant even help it. So who am I to judge ya know.
> Ironically I just got back from jamaica where weed is REAL popular. HAHA i got offered weed so much, like 10 times a day.Hey Sam thats right, you were going to Jamaica last time I talked to you. LUCKY! Its cold as hell here and my skin is a nice pasty white.
First chance I get I'm gettin to some HOT sun. So how was your trip?If you feel like telling me the fun stuff you did you can babblemail me or just post it here if its dignified, haha. Did you get nice and tan? I don't remember who you were going with but I hope you had a blast.Your friend,
Jade ;-)
Posted by detroitpistons on February 24, 2009, at 20:23:50
In reply to In Defense of Cannabis, posted by Questionmark on February 18, 2009, at 23:00:33
There's nothing wrong with cannabis, in my humble opinion. Just like anything else, it's possible to go overboard with it. Compared to a lot of other substances, however, I'd say it's pretty benign.
I have a friend who has had a very tough time with treatment resistent depression. His moods cycle a lot (mostly from more depressed to less depressed and vice versa) and mood stabilizers and antidepressants haven't seemed to help him, even things like Abilify...He's recently begun to smoke a little bit of pot and it's helped him to cope. If it's helping him to get by while everything else is failing, I think he should keep doing it. Why not? It's all about quality of life.
> Stating how you feel about something for yourself is different than saying you are "against" something in terms of other people. I'm against Remeron-- for myself. I'm not against other people using Remeron. But i think his actual opinion was probably more that it is not good that his brother is "a druggie", whether he (his brother) is trying to self-medicate or not-- something like that maybe (sorry if my assumption is wrong, however). Otherwise yeah i don't quite understand it cuz we're all self-medicating here (or everyone here who is on a drug which is the vast majority if not all).
> But yeah the first post was still pretty derogatory and demeaning to cannabis users. I [would] only use cannabis on very rare occasions-- er, would if it were legal (i do not do anything against the law, of course-- and i certainly wouldn't admit to it on a public website), and it has a number of effects on me that i absolutely loathe (or would if i had tried it). Basically, it is far, far, far from my drug of choice. It is near the bottom of the list of my drugs of choice (medicinal or recreational or otherwise). But for god's sake it is one of the least dangerous psychoactive substances in existence. There are numerous groups and people, however, who have an enormous financial interest in keeping cannabis illegal. I'm not talking conspiracy theories here i'm talking about obvious things. And i am not a hippie or a far-left liberal or a pothead (not that there's anything necessarily wrong with them as people of course). No. I just care about fairness and justice and logic. And it is due to nothing other than pure fantastical hypocrisy, misinformation, and irrational traditionalism that cannabis is still illicit-- especially as tobacco, alcohol, and numerous pharmaceuticals are legal.
> I could go on about this and all the specifics for .. way too long, but i've already digressed down a mostly irrelevant tangent, so i'll shut up now.
> Criticism of cannabis on this board is just the last thing i would expect to see, and is especially [i'll keep it civil] unsettling considering all the powerful, physiologically habit-forming, and far less time-tested pharmaceutical drugs that we poor saps take.
> ... But, that being said, i'll still take Nardil and coffee over all the weed in the world, any day of the week.
>
>
> (PS Also of course this is not an attack on you Jade was just commenting on one thing you said.)
>
>
> > Okay D/R-we all know you like your ganga.
> > I actually do feel less anxious after a couple drinks. I never get drunk. Were all gonna sit here and defend the "drug" that works for us.
> >
> > Lets not forget Sam was just trying to express his opinion which he doesn't do often, so if you guys wanna battle it out lets start another thread. He doesn't believe in self medication. Thats a completely legitimate way to feel, and he'll outlive us all and be healthy to boot. Do we really get to tell someone their beliefs are wrong? We can tell em are point of view, we can argue faulty facts. But If I say I BELIEVE people should stay within the law, thats my right to believe that. I don't think Sam was looking for an attack on his belief system.
> >
> > Please tell me if I'm wrong here Sam, I'm pretty sure you left a while ago, but I hope you'll post again.
> >
> > Your friend,
> >
> > ~Jade
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