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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 13 to 37 of 90. Go back in thread:
Posted by G-man885858 on February 1, 2009, at 1:17:58
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!! » G-man885858, posted by Garnet71 on February 1, 2009, at 0:33:57
Garnet71,
I have been to so many forums and sites talking about these horrific issues of mine... and I have never gotten an answer so sincere or heartfelt as yours..
I definitely think you know how I feel... Your words just jumped off the screen right into my heart and mind.
Its just so sad that a person can't really trust a Doctor, because the doctor's agenda isn't YOUR welfare, but rather the welfare of the Insurance and Pharmaceutical companies which control these doctors like puppets. Doctors are such greedy F*cking pricks, it enrages me so badly!!
Posted by bleauberry on February 1, 2009, at 9:27:05
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on February 1, 2009, at 1:17:58
> Its just so sad that a person can't really trust a Doctor, because the doctor's agenda isn't YOUR welfare, but rather the welfare of the Insurance and Pharmaceutical companies which control these doctors like puppets. Doctors are such greedy F*cking pricks, it enrages me so badly!!
I think there are 4 different kinds of doctors:
1. Sincere, caring, and concerned but lacking in the talent for your particular disease symptomatology. Not able to identify your problem and unqualified to treat it.
2. Arrogant, egotistical, self-anointed "know it alls." They usually say, "Lyme disease doesn't exist in the south. I have spoken. You are just depressed. I have spoken. Don't argue with me, I have spoken, etc., etc." These types are usually "specialists" in their chosen fields, i.e. neurologists, psychiatrists, endocrinologists, rheumatologists, cardiologists, infectious disease, etc. These doctors are very dangerous indeed because they typically represent the pinnacle of authority and credibility. How many patients have suffered years of misery before finally dying as a result of not seeking additional opinions for their sickness because they "trusted the specialist" and felt any further searching for answers would have been futile? Avoid these types totally if at all possible. Otherwise, be prepared to begin listing your pallbearers and hanging black crepe around your house.
3. The don't know, don't care types. These are typically found in busy clinics or hospital emergency rooms. Basic tests will be performed and you will be summarily ignored when the tests reveal nothing. Anti-depressants may be prescribed or a referral to a psychiatrist may be recommended. The environment is assembly line medicine. Take a number and wait. When seen, the doctor will seem preoccupied with other concerns and your visit will rarely exceed eight minutes of duration.
4. The passionate cutting edge type. These are deeply in love with their work so much they would probably do it for free if they had to. They can't wait to get to work each day. They stay on top of daily medical advances and theories a decade before they hit medical schools. They know traditional medicine better than their peers, and on top of that they know the results of a clinical study just published yesterday. They probably got straight A's in medical school. They embrace the challenge to take bedridden disasters and turn them into winners, almost as if a silent angel were asking them "I dare you, let me see how good you are." They are humble and deeply caring. Their peers would say, "So-n-so is VERY thorough". They take their chosen responsibility to defeat disease with serious passion.
Obviously we need more of #4 above. In my experience maybe 1 out of every 20 is like that, which is what, 5%? They exist but are hard to find. Word of mouth is usually a good clue. If someone goes to a restaurant and it turns out to be absolutely amazing, they will tell everyone about it. It's the same with doctors.
Years ago I sent a screening letter to every psychiatrist in the phone book. Some of the questions related to who they would refer a family member to, who they would refer a non-responding patient to. From that an anonimous name came up that wasn't even listed in the phone book. Psychiatrists spoke very highly of one particular doctor. He was semi-retired doing more administrative work than clinical work, and thus not in the phone book. I got in touch with him and he was the most awesome doctor I ever had. Then, sigh, he retired. Damn.
Posted by sam K on February 1, 2009, at 17:43:17
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on February 1, 2009, at 1:17:58
you should meet my doc, hes great. So human.. he treats me really equally. He doesnt try to though, its just how he is. He lets all his patients call him as many times a week if you pay $10 a month extra. He's not expensive etiher. He talks to me for 2 hours sometimes. But I may be an exception. And when he talks to people he refers to me as a friend instead of a patient.
I understand you though, before my doc now other doctors didnt really care about me.
Posted by G-man885858 on February 1, 2009, at 18:16:07
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by sam K on February 1, 2009, at 17:43:17
Who is this Doc? Is he an alternative doctor or a conventional doctor? Where is he located?
Posted by Phillipa on February 1, 2009, at 19:49:27
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!! » G-man885858, posted by bleauberry on February 1, 2009, at 9:27:05
BB number two are the ones I've had down here in South. Notheast much better for me anyway. Phillipa
Posted by garnet71 on February 1, 2009, at 20:18:28
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on February 1, 2009, at 1:17:58
Hi there Gman. I'm so glad you are checking in here and venting your anger. I'm glad you know we understand, and some of us out here in cyberspace can relate.
I forgot to mention - about psych wards...I am never going to a psychiatric hospital, or taking another person there again. I thought since the psychiatric hospital was connected with the medical university here in my city, that it would be the best place to go for the type of emergencies my sister had. I thought my sis would get the best care there. Not so.
Next time, but hopefully there will be no next time, I will go to the hospital in my region known for the best heart care. It is clean and the staff is very professional. I'm not saying there are hospitals that have 100% caring staff, but compared to the psych hospital..the psych hospital was dirty, more like a prison, and the pdocs we saw were so unempathetic - I thought the one's face was going to crack if she smiled. Her face could not even form a half smile...lol. When speaking to her and looking into her eyes, she seemed to have no empathy, and even seemed to enjoy letting my sister suffer. No exaggeration. I know doctors have to somewhat detach emotions from their patients, but this woman, I got the sense from her windows to the soul, along with her body language, was sadistic and cruel and loved having the authority over my sister's life.
When I took my sis there over and over, we would be positive despite the situation, relaxed and cooperative, and even joking at times to deal with the situation. The intake people and the security people were super...and one or two of the nurses..but the psych docs..horrible. Oh, and once you entered you were locked in and not permitted to go outside for fresh air, or in my sister's case a cig. Locked in the waiting room.
The also filmed everything. I don't remember them asking for permission; maybe they did, but I don't recall. I had to be a b*tch to even go in the room with my sister, who didn't want me to leave her side. They told me I wasn't allowed, but when I pushed by the nurse and caught the one more decent doctor in the hallway, he said sure, I could come sit by my sister while she was being 'interrogated'. How dare they say I can't be by her side while she loses her mind, but random students are allowed in while a group of people watch and question her under a camera. Why do these people think they are? Also, I am not comfortable thinking someone who knows me that decided to go to med school can sit there and watch my sister having her nervous breakdown, and hear about our childhood and the sexual abuse. Real nice exposing that for the world to see. I didn't mind the students being in the room. I talked to them about school and stuff. One seemed real nervous and uncomfortable. I wonder if these students knew what they were getting themselves into.
Interesting how they "were not permitted" to prescribe any medications to stop a total destructive nervous breakdown until I threatened to sue. Pdocs whole career is structured around prescribing pills, but when you need them for an emergency/acute situation, all they want to do is deny. :|
Nothing wrong with venting :) Keep us posted!
Posted by JadeKelly on February 1, 2009, at 21:34:14
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on February 1, 2009, at 1:17:58
Garnet and G-man,
My son is Bipolar-1, his manic states are not "happy". Garnet, your post reminded me of "one flew over the coocoo's nest, with Jack Nicholson. G-man, if you've seen it I'm sure you can relate. At any rate, no, I won't be taking my son to a psych ward ever again. He's gone 3 times, the 2nd hospital wasn't that bad, but it wasnt good either.
Now if he gets violent, I call family, and if we have to we hold him down, I promise we won't hurt him. I tell him I love him and don't pay attention to the "mean" things he says. Its not him. They last 24-48 hours.
Back to subject, I hear you G-man about Doctors. My son feels the exact same way. He'll always hate psychyatrists but he goes because he knows he needs his medications. After 3 therapists we found one he really hits it off with and while we're taking a break for now, he's happy he has someone to talk to if he needs to. I hope you find someone like that G-man.
Hope you are feeling better, you have many options left to get you feeling well again. Its sucks to be patient I know. Keep posting, I was deeply depressed and it really helped to talk it out with others. I didn't feel so alone.
~Jade
Posted by cmorhoun on February 2, 2009, at 12:30:20
In reply to Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on January 31, 2009, at 0:22:56
G - I feel your pain and can relate. I am incredibly sensitive to meds myself. Most meds Ive taken have made things severely worse. A few suggestions:
Klonipon over time can add to depression. Try another benzo or try Neurontin (affects GABA also) or Lithium.
I wonder why you quit Lexapro in 2005, it seems like things have gotten worse since you did?
It sounds like youve been on the same meds for quite a while? If you feel this horrible on what youre taking, its obviously time to try something else and theres much more to try.
Stimulants like Adderall, Concerta, Vyvanse. I wouldn't be alive without them. I think they are pretty hard on the body over time and certainly hard on the adrenals but they are powerful and fast acting and may at least help until you find the right cocktail. They've kept me functional and alive for 3 years. There are many many people who have tried every other drug/class there is and finally found relief with stimulants. Youll hear about addiction, poop-out, tolerance which are all possibilities but only for some. Youll find many doctors are leery of them and rightly so.find someone else. Ive taken the same low dose for the entire time Ive been on them. Fake ADD problems if you need to. They give this crap to kids like its candy yet theyre cautious about someone whos life could be saved because they dont fit the proper profileamazing.
Amino Acid supplements. I cant stress these enough. They have been sort of my rock through years of searching for the right cocktail. They can be very activating and energizing. They can potentiate the effects of drugs and could certainly help with adrenal exhaustion or allergies. I think they are the reason that Ive done OK with a low and consistent dose of stimulants for so long. Hardly a cure for depression but can significantly lighten the load, especially for someone in a cloudy, dark and foggy depression.
Licorice A standard for the theoretical adrenal exhaustion. Do some research though, potentially potent stuff and should be taken with care.
St. John's Wort - Can also be very activating. Again, hardly a cure but may help lighten the load or potentiate the drugs you're on. I recommend finding a liquid form...more pure in my opinion. Must be careful of dose if taking with other drugs.
L-tryptophan converts to serotonin during the day and melatonin at night. One of the best sleep aides there is and completely natural. Can be very helpful for anxiety too. Some will even say it helps with depression over time. You must be careful taking with any drug that effects serotonin.
Diet can help immensely too. Raw green organic veggies can do wonders for someone with allergies or sensitivities. Basic protein, no sugarscommon sense stuff can be easily forgotten when feeling so horrible.
Have you considered ECT? Youll probably hear mostly horror stories from people here but for some, it's the magic bullet or for many or it can offer temporary relief while you try other meds. Do some research. Unilateral vs bilateral, etc.
T3 supplementation regardless of thyroid levels. Use caution but again, often the magic bullet for someone who wouldnt even fit the profile for thyroid issues.
Just hang in there. I know how hard it is to even imagine something can help when you don't even know how you'll make it through the day but as mentioned already, there are so many other meds/combos to try. A doc once told me that prescribing meds is as much an art as it is a science. Everyone is different and we ultimately dont know why these drugs work the way they do. Diagnosis and classification of drugs ultimately means very little. You ultimately just have to find what fits your body chemistry.
Regarding adrenal tests and such. I spent lots of time and money on all sorts of tests relating to allergies, cortisal, adrenalson and on and on and ultimately, they generally tell you very little even if they seem to indicate something specific. Much of the stuff is theoretical in the first place. Occasionally youll find something clear cut like low thyroid but generally its a lot of theory that all basically means the same thing in the end..eat healthy and exercise. I did all this stuff when I was at my worst and it was something to hope for and to keep me going but in retrospect, for me, it was a lot of wasted hope and money. Im not saying you shouldnt do it, Im just saying, try to keep perspective as you do. You may spend a lot of time and money to get answers that are theoretical at best and that all have the same solution..eat healthy and exercise.
Research research research.Crazymeds, Revolution Health, PubMed, The alternative board, other forums. Im very fortunate in that I have a fantastic psych who respects that I am very educated on meds. I think the more intelligent you sound to any doc, the more they will respect your input. Its very easy to get bitter at docs but if we dont have anything intelligent to offer regarding an approach, what should we expect from someone who is ultimately clueless unless theyve been through this themselves.
Posted by G-man885858 on February 2, 2009, at 21:15:15
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by cmorhoun on February 2, 2009, at 12:30:20
> G - I feel your pain and can relate. I am incredibly sensitive to meds myself. Most meds Ive taken have made things severely worse. A few suggestions:
>
> Klonipon over time can add to depression. Try another benzo or try Neurontin (affects GABA also) or Lithium.I have Neurontin, my Psychiatrist just gave it to me... but when I take it I become more manic and I develop very destructive thoughts & mood changes.
>
> I wonder why you quit Lexapro in 2005, it seems like things have gotten worse since you did?
>I quit Lexapro because I really felt like it put my health in grave danger. SSRIs severely aggravate insomnia, they also make you act extremely recklessly and impair your judgement. I used to drink a sh*tload of vodka when on Lexapro and I was a heavy cigarette smoker - I quit both these nasty habits after getting off Lexapro.
I could not foresee what awaited me after withdrawal of Lexapro... Even though quitting it turned out unfavorably, I don't think I would've lasted much longer on it anyway.
> It sounds like youve been on the same meds for quite a while? If you feel this horrible on what youre taking, its obviously time to try something else and theres much more to try.
>
> Stimulants like Adderall, Concerta, Vyvanse. I wouldn't be alive without them. I think they are pretty hard on the body over time and certainly hard on the adrenals but they are powerful and fast acting and may at least help until you find the right cocktail. They've kept me functional and alive for 3 years. There are many many people who have tried every other drug/class there is and finally found relief with stimulants. Youll hear about addiction, poop-out, tolerance which are all possibilities but only for some. Youll find many doctors are leery of them and rightly so.find someone else. Ive taken the same low dose for the entire time Ive been on them. Fake ADD problems if you need to. They give this crap to kids like its candy yet theyre cautious about someone whos life could be saved because they dont fit the proper profileamazing.
About stimulants: I cannot even drink a cup of coffee without feeling like I'm getting a heart attack. I am ridiculously sensitive to all drugs... this has also been the bane of my existence... since I really can't take anything to relieve my symptoms.>
> Amino Acid supplements. I cant stress these enough. They have been sort of my rock through years of searching for the right cocktail. They can be very activating and energizing. They can potentiate the effects of drugs and could certainly help with adrenal exhaustion or allergies. I think they are the reason that Ive done OK with a low and consistent dose of stimulants for so long. Hardly a cure for depression but can significantly lighten the load, especially for someone in a cloudy, dark and foggy depression.
>
>
> L-tryptophan converts to serotonin during the day and melatonin at night. One of the best sleep aides there is and completely natural. Can be very helpful for anxiety too. Some will even say it helps with depression over time. You must be careful taking with any drug that effects serotonin.Tryptophan makes me feel HORRIBLE. I think this is a long-term side effect of SSRI use/withdrawal, since SSRIs primarily affect serotonin. SSRIs totally mess up the serotonin receptors, and tryptophan is bad for lots of people who have been on SSRIs.
>
> Diet can help immensely too. Raw green organic veggies can do wonders for someone with allergies or sensitivities. Basic protein, no sugarscommon sense stuff can be easily forgotten when feeling so horrible.Diet: 2 years ago, I have just realized that I am heavily allergic to Wheat and dairy. I have totally cut those 2 out of my diet, and removing wheat has really helped! Apparently I've been allergic to wheat since I was born, and I only realized this when I was 23. So for 23 years I've been heavily consuming a food that I'm severely allergic to....
Posted by cmorhoun on February 3, 2009, at 11:45:07
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on February 2, 2009, at 21:15:15
Neurontin - remember that it can take some time to adjust to meds. I understand how hard this is when one is severely sensitive and also in extreme mental pain.
Lexapro - keep in mind that stress/depression can be just as detrimental to your health, if not more so, than anything an SSRI or other can do to you. It sounds like you may have at least been feeling better when on an AD versus the meds you take now. The drinking and smoking is an easy fix...don't do it. There are plenty of other types of ADs to try other than SSRIs. The TCAs are generally great for sleep. Remeron is famous for sleepy, Strattera, even Wellbutrin, can make people tired (both did for me), Lithium, etc. There are many many options to try.
Stimulants - I know the concept of taking a stimulant seems wrong when sleep or anxiety is an issue but I think you would be pleasantly surprised. Ive always been a terrible sleeper and I sleep better when taking a stimulant than when taking any other type of med. Again, I am also ridiculously sensetive to meds and I've handled stimulants very well by just taking small doses. Don't be afraid to at least try them.
I would again, encourage you to find a good amino acid supplement right away. From there, research some alternate meds to try.
I think you and I are very similar in ways. I too went through the stress of being afraid of meds because of health issues. Your afraid of meds, your sensitive to meds, they don't seem to help and even if they did, they may do long term damage....I know that self serving prophecy type hell. I finally accepted that nothing compares to the damage that depression does to ones physical and mental mind (and body). The body has an amazing capacity to heal itself over time. Effects from drugs can be healed but not when one is constantly depressed. Try to stop compounding your stress and aggravation by worrying about long term effects of drugs right now and focus on getting some relief.
Posted by G-man885858 on February 3, 2009, at 17:12:20
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by cmorhoun on February 3, 2009, at 11:45:07
I am not against meds. I do not have Drugophobia, I am just very careful and weary of them. Right now, I take Seroquel 300mg, Klonopin 1mg, ambien 10mg, and lopressor 10mg all at the same time before bed.
What specific type of amino acids do you take?
My doc gave me a "free form amino acid powder" to try, but when I tried it it was REALLY stimulating and that scared me out of trying it again. But I think I will try it again sometime soon, because the first time I tried it there were many other concurrent problems going on that may have aggravated the side effects.Sincerely,
G-man
Posted by garnet71 on February 3, 2009, at 21:38:36
In reply to Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on January 31, 2009, at 0:22:56
Hi Gman, just me again.
I read where you told us you had a wheat allergy (Celiac disease?). I wonder if the intestinal dysfunction that results from Celiac prevents your body from absorbing and processing essential nutrients when you are growing and your brain is developing?
I forgot to mention - when you are in despair - be on the lookout for angels. I don't mean angels in a religious sense. For that matter, I don't think one religion is any better than all the others...Angels are not special people; they are random people that you briefly connect with; just instruments temporarily used for a purpose to deliver a message to another.
When I have been at my all time low, random people on occasion - in a setting totally unrelated and out of character in comparison to something going on in my life - will bring up a subject that again, has nothing to do with the environment or situation at hand - and somehow say something to me that is as if they know exactly what is going on in my head! I have been in awe at what total strangers have said to me - as if they were talking directly to my soul without them even realizing it.
It is both a bizzare and amazing thing at the same time. It brings about undescribable peace at our worst times.
The problem is, if you don't look for them you will totally miss the opportunity. So next time you are feeling that low, think about what the clerk in the convenience store just said...the coworker you normally never talk to...the little 5 year old neighbor that blurts out something innocent.
This has helped me get through the most awful times. I hope you will be aware if this ever happens to you. Glad to see you are talkative and doing better.
Hugs,
Garnet
Posted by G-man885858 on February 3, 2009, at 22:33:55
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!! » G-man885858, posted by garnet71 on February 3, 2009, at 21:38:36
God bless you Garnet, I think YOU are an angel!
You are because you take the time out of your busy schedule to talk to me and comfort me. That takes a lot of strength and effort!My parents have raised me in a harshly atheist household. They did it to take away all my hope and belief that life can be a lot better than the misery that they gave me. They are manipulative, sadistic bullies. They were willing to stoop to ANY LOW to increase their suffocating grip on my life and happiness. They even look happy when I am at my lowest, most depressive points. They only had children because they needed scapegoats to blame for their own miserable, failed marriage.
Posted by G-man885858 on February 4, 2009, at 20:41:57
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!! » G-man885858, posted by garnet71 on February 3, 2009, at 21:38:36
GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!!! YOU ARE ALL AMAZING PEOPLE, I AM SO THANKFUL TO ALL OF YOU!
Posted by Garnet71 on February 4, 2009, at 21:31:28
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on February 4, 2009, at 20:41:57
(((GMan)) - you are amazing too, and we are lucky to have you here. Keeep checking in!!!
Posted by garnet71 on February 5, 2009, at 1:11:21
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on February 4, 2009, at 20:41:57
Hi GMan,
I just wanted to dedicate this song to you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZbiZxA9b5k
Maybe it will brighten your day?
Posted by G-man885858 on February 5, 2009, at 2:03:35
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!! » G-man885858, posted by garnet71 on February 5, 2009, at 1:11:21
Thank you Garnet, I love Eddie Vedder! Really great song!
Posted by garnet71 on February 5, 2009, at 22:37:46
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!! » G-man885858, posted by garnet71 on February 5, 2009, at 1:11:21
Hi GMan,
This one should reallytouch your heart..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9NkGdZ-N2E
I was really happy to find a bunch of talented college kids turned my favorite Lifehouse song into such a powerful play. It grows on you. If you dont' like it at first, watch it a few times in a row - and I guarantee it will touch your heart like it touched mine.
:)
Posted by garnet71 on February 5, 2009, at 23:13:20
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!! » garnet71, posted by garnet71 on February 5, 2009, at 22:37:46
This is the original version I was looking for:
http://www.ksbj.org/eblogs/afternoonShow/?p=86
The graphics are still fuzzy, but this is the one. Disregard the other link.
Posted by G-man885858 on February 6, 2009, at 0:31:04
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by garnet71 on February 5, 2009, at 23:13:20
I once asked my father: would anyone care if I committed suicide? He said: Nobody would shed a single TEAR!
Posted by G-man885858 on February 6, 2009, at 0:33:31
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on February 6, 2009, at 0:31:04
Was it arrogant of me to expect people to cry if I passed away?
Posted by garnet71 on February 6, 2009, at 0:47:25
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on February 6, 2009, at 0:31:04
Gman,
First-you are not a *product* of your parents
Second-What do YOU want out of life?
We are ALL unique, special creations; we all contribute to the universal mind. Yes, everyone from the bank teller, to the garbage man, to the CEO - all contribute to the aggregate humanity
Posted by G-man885858 on February 6, 2009, at 20:06:43
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by garnet71 on February 6, 2009, at 0:47:25
I just want to live with some dignity..
Posted by garnet71 on February 6, 2009, at 22:11:55
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on February 6, 2009, at 20:06:43
> I just want to live with some dignity..
-----------
Gman,
Do you think your parents robbed you of your dignity? If so, you can get it back.
Posted by garnet71 on February 6, 2009, at 22:26:52
In reply to Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on January 31, 2009, at 0:22:56
Hi GMan,
If you liked Eddie Veder, you might like this one too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YoUuwDZuW0&feature=related
Sometimes we dwell on living in our own prisons rather than trying to escape.
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