![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 11, 2009, at 10:15:54
Hi Everyone!!!
I don't want to feel unstable...BUT in 2 days, I never stop thinking about my present situation and what I will miss if I stop the Parnate treatment and if I give up after 1 month.Some others members on this forum help me a lot to take that difficult decision...and I change my mind again...thanks to JadeKelly and Scott!!! ;-)I like you so much...you don't know how... ;-)
So to everyone, forget my last thread about TCA's or Cymbalta and the fact that I stop the Parnate, since we canno't erease our own threat, I will have to live with that mistake!!! I also sometimes forget that all the people around the world can read what I write just by google it...so I will try to make my post less personnal...if some people want to talk with me in privacy, my babble mail is ON!!!
Since this morning, i'm back to the 30mg of Parnate. Maybe some people wonder why I change my mind again like this? I will try to explain it in English with the best I can... Anybody on the Parnate speak french here?...
Last night, when I return home at 1AM, I read some post about the Manerix (moclobemide)that Scott post on another thread. He point the fact that (Manerix) was not approved by the FDA because "Roche" compagny was not able to make the proof that it was effective over 8 weeks of use.
So, some theories of my family doctor was not bad, Manerix is more a "cats" drug, and is for minor problems and not for treatment resistant patients like us(depression, social phobia). My family doctor is also right about the fact that the dosage have to be up regulary until the patient reach the limit of 1200mg/day of Moclobemide to continue to feel in remission, making it more like an old MAIO and at this stage, the diet restriction had to be applies...So why go with the Manerix (moclobemide) when I can have a more sustainable treatment with the Parnate? A drug who was studie for years and years...maybe not like the Nardil, but at least the Parnate have proof over the years that it was effective on a long-term basis...and especially in anxiety field...more than newer drugs...
I also think the "physical fatigue" and the lack of motivation I have right now are not Parnate related but more from my not treated depression and the fact that I don't reach the stage of the right "dosage" and time factors to see some improve on the Parnate (Depression improve)...
For the high blood pressure, I know I just stop 3 days the Parnate, so the MAO didn't have the time to reform completly, but for the 3 days I don't take the Parnate, my blood pressure always stay high, so I guess it's more a psychological side-effect than anything else, but the hypotension orthostatic is not a psychological side-effect, I feel it...but that's not bored me now...I get used to it.
I also realized the PArnate make me improve more with my social phobia problem, more than what I was thinking, more than on any other drugs I try before, even the Nardil. Why I write this? Well look under...
The fact that I return to a 20mg/Valium intake dose, in less than 24hours without Parnate, proof that the Parnate was effective to help me reducing my benzo intake...I will probably be able to be benzo free in a couple of months and thats a MAJOR goal for me to reach. I don't like at all how I turn into a "benzo addict" person. I don't want to live my life with always the stress that i'm sure I have some Valiums pills with me everywhere I go just in case...
The panic attacks return the day after I stop the Parnate, in social context or not, another sign that the Parnate was effective in that sphere of my life (panic disorder).
I also return to my normal headache state that I had before the Parnate, a regular headache that follow me all day long. Since I take the Parnate, I do less migraines than before. I can have small headache but nothing like a migraine...that's a big plus for me...
The fact that I don't feel more motivated or that I had no more energy in these 3 days without the Parnate make me think about the REAL improves I gain in 1 month on the Parnate. I prefer to have some hypotension orthostatic side-effect but some improve that's are real... then nothing else...
Sorry if it's seem that I like to contradict myself ...lol I know that I write in the other thread that I Was a lot tired of side-effects and things like that but I will have to deal with others side-effects anyway, since I never try for a long period of time a TCA's drug, who know, maybe it will be worst than the Parnate side-effects and also they (tca's) seem to be less effective in social and general anxiety states...but more in the depression field...Since depression is not my major problem, I think I should stay on the Parnate.
Thanks also to JadeKelly, who write yesterday in a post that when she forget to take her pills, she figure she better stay on it!!!
You are so right... The move I do 3 days ago and the fact that I wanted to stop everything was not a wise decision and I admit it...
So for now i'm back again at 30mg/day. I will discuss this issue with my PDOC this week, I will try to have a paper for blood test, to see if everything is ok and that I don't feel less energised because I lack some vitamins or things like that. For the gain weight, I will try to begin a strict diet again, maybe i'm wrong by doing thit, but at least, loose some weight will maybe help me with my motivation and my self-esteem...
I will also try to convice him to put me on 40mg at least and stay at this stage for 1 month and see what happen. I doubt I will be able to get a more high dose than that, even if I bring to him some studies find over the internet and make him read them... It's him the PDOC, not me and I don't want to begin to lie to him about the fact that I never had side-effects from getting higher than 30mg of Parnate just to be sure he will be more open to give me a more high dose...I know, I contradict myself again here...don't remind me this ok ;-) I just have to follow his instruction, I wanted to go more fast than him and I pay the price, if he start me at a low dose it's not for nothing and also it's not for his lack of knowledge with the Parnate and the MAOI's in general. He probably read already all the studies on the high dosage theory of Parnate...he just want me to be free of side-effect since in my folder it's probably write that I have a big tendancy to drop my treatment when I feel too much side-effects...and that IM to much hypervigilance with the side-effecstd I feel in my body.
I will also forget the blood pressure machine (I know, I write this 10 times before...thanks to my general anxiety to make me focus on my blood pressure...lol). I will just forget that I take some pills who "can" do that kind of side-efects, the high or low blood pressure...
For JadeKelly, yes, I begin a CTB therapy before christmas. I had 4 appointments in the begining for the diagnostic and with that 4 appointments, my psychologist was able to make a plan on how we will work together. I know last week she talk about going to some public spaces with me and watch me and watch what I do...she will be able to give me some advises and told me what I do wrong in public spaces and what I should do to feel less anxious, things like that. I'm sure I will improve more with the CTB combined with the Parnate.
For the Wellbutrin, forget this. I was on Lexapro (20mg/day) from september, october and november 2008, I add the Wellbutrin (300mg) in October, and Ritalin (methylphenidate) 10mg/day , all in the same time and my energy level was at 0...So it was not helping a lot. I don't like the fact that I had to blend so many drugs at the same time and make explosive combo like these. It was crazy at the time and I was just getting worse.
I really think I don't answer well on the drug who acts on the serotonin and my brains are probably all f*ck up anyway so who knows what is wrong in my head...One thing is sure, the Parnate is a all in one pill, I know I will not have to put something else on the top of it to improve more, just maybe a mood stabilizer to help and prevent the pop-out problems and make it more stable on me...The energy will probably improve more when I will work in my CTB and on my daytime schedule. I just get a bad habit to stay in my dressing gown all day long and just go out at night. I need to move also in the day, return to a more normal schedule, take my shower and get dress in the morning like I was doing before 2008...For the insomnia now that I have "again" some Seroquel (the normal one, not the XR) and a relatively small dose (25mg), I know that I can sleep a little bit more at night time and wake up in the morning maybe a little bit dizzy, but after a cup of coffee everything is fine.
So that's it...Another time sorry to everyone...I don't like the fact that I post so much threads, that I change my mind so often and things like these...I don't want to be a burden to the babble community .
I hope everyone is fine and I really wish to everyone of you here a good luck and a really good 2009 year...We all deserve to get more well and live a normal life ;-)
Thanks for your support again!
Bye!
VIncent ;-)
Posted by fayeroe on January 11, 2009, at 10:35:53
In reply to Changed my mind (Thanks to Jade and Scott) ;-), posted by Vincent_QC on January 11, 2009, at 10:15:54
Posted by Phillipa on January 11, 2009, at 10:56:50
In reply to Changed my mind (Thanks to Jade and Scott) ;-), posted by Vincent_QC on January 11, 2009, at 10:15:54
Best of luck to you Vincent. Know you put a lot of thought into decision. Love Phillipa
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 11, 2009, at 11:45:43
In reply to Re: Changed my mind (Thanks to Jade and Scott) ;-) » Vincent_QC, posted by Phillipa on January 11, 2009, at 10:56:50
> Best of luck to you Vincent. Know you put a lot of thought into decision. Love Phillipa
Hi Phillipa!
Yeah...a lot of thought for sure...maybe too much...Google too much and doing my own research on others possibilities oo drugs treatments was not easy also, but we don't have the choice...With years and years of bad treatments with newer drugs with differents Pdoc or family doctors, I think the decision to make my own investigation and research is now a needed and a must approach. I think also that finding THE miracle pill who will cure me of all my problems was also too much in my minds since a while. I think that any improvement I can get from a drug will be more helpfull than continue to dream about that magic pill and stay at the same stage... Nothing is perfect in this world and side-effects are a part of the process of a remission.I have just one regret, is that I stop for 3 days my treatment...I hope I will not encounter a return in the side effects like the ones I had when I up my dosage from 20mg to 30mg/day of Parnate. For now, at day 1, I already take 20mg, will take my other 10mg dose at 3 PM...no sign of side effect, no hypertension or orthostatic hypotension, no dizzness...So that's a great news...
That's just my opinion...of course... ;-)
Thanks again for your support ;-)
Have a nice day ;-)
Vince ;-)
Posted by Phillipa on January 11, 2009, at 12:20:35
In reply to Re: Changed my mind (Thanks to Jade and Scott) ;-) » Phillipa, posted by Vincent_QC on January 11, 2009, at 11:45:43
Vincent I'd say that's your experience. But I'd like to google something that has some info on the absorbsion of enteric coated meds from intestinal tract after bypass surgery bet none exist. I take it parnate is absorbed from stomach or am I wrong? I don't hardly a thing about Parnate. Love Phillipa
Posted by Sissy35 on January 11, 2009, at 13:50:03
In reply to Changed my mind (Thanks to Jade and Scott) ;-), posted by Vincent_QC on January 11, 2009, at 10:15:54
So glad you changed your mind. Believe me I too am in the start up stages and IT IS HARD! I am like you and taking advice from people more experienced than me. If not I would have given up too. Way before you did.
I don't believe that a few days off parnate will affect your progress. If you are anything like me I am hyper concious of every little side effect to start. Try to accept the way you feel one day at a time. Unles its something dangerous!
Jade and I have a parnate adventurers club, for parnate newbies, just to put some humor into this parnate thing, for me I need humor now because the sides and the wondering what is going to happen next and you have gone through that too. It is not a real club, just a different way of saying we are starting a new med. It just makes me feel better to think of it as an adventure than another drug trail(how depressing for me). Want to join? Love to have you. Everyone is welcome to take their meds as an adventure insead of OH no not another med trial. Remember we didn't fail!!!!!
love
Sissy35
Posted by JadeKelly on January 11, 2009, at 13:56:53
In reply to Changed my mind (Thanks to Jade and Scott) ;-), posted by Vincent_QC on January 11, 2009, at 10:15:54
Hey Vincent!
Looks like were Parnate buddies again? Nobody cares how many times you change your mind! You have to do whats right for you. Couple things before I forget:
1. Captain America just posted an article (well two actually but one we haven't seen before, its great! have a look)
2. Side effects, especially BP fluctuations have gone away almost completely, BP runs a little low but if I add salt, etc I could bring it up easily.
My point is that the higher the dose, the less the side effects, I noticed that for myself, and I believe the article adresses that as well. So don't be afraid BP problems will get worse, they will probably get better IMHO.3. I've had second thoughts a couple times, but when I had that period of time that felt like full remission? I knew I was on the right track. Also, I've had a couple of times where I was in a hurry and forgot my pills, boy did I remember I could feel a lot worse. I think we tend to forget.
So, Vincent you are at a very low dose, will you increase slowly? I'm sure those few days won't make a difference (well, I'm not SURE but I doubt it) Don't be afraid to increase doses 30mg is what I started at, the higher you go the less side effects, I would suggest talking to your PDoc about getting up to a therapeutic range, ask Scott tho, he knows better than I.
Always good to here from you, no matter what you decide! Hope you are happy about your decision. I'm sure it was a hard one to make. Keep me posted!!
~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on January 11, 2009, at 14:23:01
In reply to Re: Changed my mind (Thanks to Jade and Scott) ;-) » Vincent_QC, posted by Sissy35 on January 11, 2009, at 13:50:03
> So glad you changed your mind. Believe me I too am in the start up stages and IT IS HARD! I am like you and taking advice from people more experienced than me. If not I would have given up too. Way before you did.
> I don't believe that a few days off parnate will affect your progress. If you are anything like me I am hyper concious of every little side effect to start. Try to accept the way you feel one day at a time. Unles its something dangerous!
> Jade and I have a parnate adventurers club, for parnate newbies, just to put some humor into this parnate thing, for me I need humor now because the sides and the wondering what is going to happen next and you have gone through that too. It is not a real club, just a different way of saying we are starting a new med. It just makes me feel better to think of it as an adventure than another drug trail(how depressing for me). Want to join? Love to have you. Everyone is welcome to take their meds as an adventure insead of OH no not another med trial. Remember we didn't fail!!!!!
> love
> Sissy35
What? Its not a real club? sniff sniff. Well I geuss we can pretend. Its the closest thing to a club I've been involved in for a while, haha. Glad to see you posting. Please read the post I left for Vincent, there are one or two things you might be interested in.I gave Scott (resident parnate expert) the information about the tension, along with a few other symptoms I'm having and I'll pass that along to you as soon as I hear back. He is going to be going through a med change soon (not parnate), but I think he'll be feeling pretty lousy for a while so I'm gonna leave him be till he feels better. There are other people who are knowledgeable on the board, and if we cant find our answers here, I like to research. So there you go!
Were you "adventuring" till 4am? We're night owls, thats all! (In our club we become masters of the positive spin...what do you say?) haha. Talk with you soon.
~Jade
Posted by Sissy35 on January 11, 2009, at 15:50:16
In reply to Re: Changed my mind (Thanks to Jade and Scott) ;-) » Sissy35, posted by JadeKelly on January 11, 2009, at 14:23:01
Can't offend others and get blocked the first week Jade the little jewel! To me it is real. Its my coping theroy. now to see if it works lol
love Sissy35
Posted by JadeKelly on January 11, 2009, at 16:45:50
In reply to Re: Changed my mind (Thanks to Jade and Scott) ;-) » JadeKelly, posted by Sissy35 on January 11, 2009, at 15:50:16
> Can't offend others and get blocked the first week Jade the little jewel! To me it is real. Its my coping theroy. now to see if it works lol
>
> love Sissy35Okay Sissy. Feel free to teach me some manners! "Jade the little jewel" that has a really nice ring to it! You are very charming, I feel special! haha. And Sissy we will cope, and it will work. We will help each other. I already do have mild A/D effect. But I feel it- there is a lot more to come if I do it right. So where exactly are you? Dosage and duration? Felt any response yet? I wouldnt expect you to this soon, but it happens. Post me when you feel like it, let me know how you are. I'm so glad you are here, I hope you will stay!
~Jade
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on January 11, 2009, at 18:00:11
In reply to Changed my mind (Thanks to Jade and Scott) ;-), posted by Vincent_QC on January 11, 2009, at 10:15:54
>I will also forget the blood pressure machine (I >know, I write this 10 times before...thanks to >my general anxiety to make me focus on my blood >pressure...lol). I will just forget that I take >some pills who "can" do that kind of side->efects, the high or low blood pressure...
I ask you, pleading very kindly, do NOT ignore high blood pressure. You are easily, very easily, putting your life at risk. You should have a full cardiac assessment, mostly just some simple tests, from your family doc.(Or if you happen to have a specialist.) This should be your number 1 priority, regardless of what antidepressant you decide to take. Best wishes...
Jay
Posted by Phillipa on January 11, 2009, at 19:35:12
In reply to Re: Changed my mind..VERY important..pls read.. » Vincent_QC, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on January 11, 2009, at 18:00:11
Jay excellent advise agree with you. Love Phillipa
Posted by desolationrower on January 12, 2009, at 2:15:55
In reply to Re: Changed my mind..VERY important..pls read.. » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Phillipa on January 11, 2009, at 19:35:12
If only one could be prescribed "join a basketball league at the YMCA..."
-d/r
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 12, 2009, at 7:47:48
In reply to Re: Changed my mind..VERY important..pls read.. » Vincent_QC, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on January 11, 2009, at 18:00:11
>
> I ask you, pleading very kindly, do NOT ignore high blood pressure. You are easily, very easily, putting your life at risk. You should have a full cardiac assessment, mostly just some simple tests, from your family doc.(Or if you happen to have a specialist.) This should be your number 1 priority, regardless of what antidepressant you decide to take. Best wishes...
>
> Jay
>
>
>Hi Jay!
Don't worry for me, I have my own blood pressure machine and I use it, even if I feel good. I try to take my blood pressure at least 3 times a day, just to be sure everything is ok...One time in the morning, one time in the afternoon and one time at night...just to keep the results in a "word" document and show this to my Psychiatrist. I don't want to die of a cardiac failure for sure...and i'm a lot concern about this, since i'm not a lot in shape physically and I have a lot of bad habits like smooking cigarettes and the coffee, the fact that I don't exercices a lot...You can be sure I will never put my life in danger...When I wrote that I wanted just to forget the blood pressure machine, I didn't write this about being completely stupid and act like a fool...I will always make sure everything is fine with my blood pressure. I just want to feel a little bit more free...and keep my "general anxiety" leval at a LOW state...
For now, i'm always a little bit high in my blood pressure, 140/70...before I was always around the 110/60...yeah, an increase of 30/10 can see like a dangerous state for my health, but my family doctor say it's ok and not dangerous...in a short-term view...He said also that if I always stay in a more high blood pressure level like this, it can be more dangerous in a long-term view...but for now i'm safe. A lot of people suffer from high blood pressure, at a more high level than the ones I get, and they are not aware of the situation and they will only developp complications after a lot of years...so for now, I will hope everything will return in the "normal" zone in a short time...
Also note that all the AD's drugs increase a little bit the heart blood pressure, even the newer ones!!!
Since i'm also sensitive to the drugs, I have to go more slowly...and I think I learn my lesson now...I will up the dose only on my doctor recommandation...
Thanks for your advise ;-)
Have a good day and take care of you ok ;-)
Bye!
Vincent ;-)
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 12, 2009, at 11:44:00
In reply to Re: Changed my mind (Thanks to Jade and Scott) ;-) » Vincent_QC, posted by JadeKelly on January 11, 2009, at 13:56:53
> Hey Vincent!
>
> Looks like were Parnate buddies again? Nobody cares how many times you change your mind! You have to do whats right for you. Couple things before I forget:
>
> 1. Captain America just posted an article (well two actually but one we haven't seen before, its great! have a look)
>
> 2. Side effects, especially BP fluctuations have gone away almost completely, BP runs a little low but if I add salt, etc I could bring it up easily.
> My point is that the higher the dose, the less the side effects, I noticed that for myself, and I believe the article adresses that as well. So don't be afraid BP problems will get worse, they will probably get better IMHO.
>
> 3. I've had second thoughts a couple times, but when I had that period of time that felt like full remission? I knew I was on the right track. Also, I've had a couple of times where I was in a hurry and forgot my pills, boy did I remember I could feel a lot worse. I think we tend to forget.
>
> So, Vincent you are at a very low dose, will you increase slowly? I'm sure those few days won't make a difference (well, I'm not SURE but I doubt it) Don't be afraid to increase doses 30mg is what I started at, the higher you go the less side effects, I would suggest talking to your PDoc about getting up to a therapeutic range, ask Scott tho, he knows better than I.
>
> Always good to here from you, no matter what you decide! Hope you are happy about your decision. I'm sure it was a hard one to make. Keep me posted!!
>
> ~JadeHi Jade!
My god, i'm a little bit confuse with all the threads and post I do since a couple of days...so sorry for the long time before I answer to your message, I don't do it on purpose, trust me ! ;-)Yeah, we are Parnate buddies again!!! I think the fact that I stop 3 days make me realize that I was going to lose a lot of benefits and improves that I already get on the Parnate. Even if I have side-effects that exhausted me, I think switching to another drug will make no difference at all. I will have to cope with newer side-effects, maybe worse...so why leave the boat after 1 month and more on the Parnate and loose all what I gain on it?
So i'm back on the Parnate, and I hope I will be able to convice my Pdoc to up my dosage more than 30mg/day...that's my goal since I know now that my family doctor don't want to interfer with my Pdoc treatment and don't want to fill a new prescription of 40mg/day of Parnate for me...He told me to ask my Pdoc for this now and discuss with him... That's a 360 degree of change from my family doctor, before he was really open to everything with me and he had no limit on the dosage of drugs...the limit was my level of tolerance of the drug of course...he never try to kill me with too high dose for sure...I was a lot disappointed about his decision to not help me and the fact he refuse to up my dose and I think it's why I decide to leave the boat on the Parnate last week...I was sure that my Pdoc will never want to put me on a more high dose than 30mg/day...
Anyway...for now i'm back at 30mg/day, I don't think 3 days off the Parnate make me loose all the benefits and improves I get in 1 month and I don't think my MAO in my brains reform in 3 days...Yes, I have a little more side-effects now, more than when I stop last week, especially orthostatic hypotension, but i'm sure it will fade away faster...For the fatigue and the hypertension, since I know I will not die of a 160/80 blood pressure, I feel less overstress about it... When I feel that my heart beat more slow and harder, it's a sign that I do high blood pressure but I try to focus on something else and one time on two I succeed to lower my blood pressure...I think it's more psychological, since I have a panic disorder and general anxiety, my thoughts can strongly influence the side effects I have...that's a true fact and a reality and I have to cope with that...
So that's it, I meet my Pdoc this week, I will show to him all the studies the others members from this forum post, especially the one of Captain America as well as others importants studies...I will try to convince him the best I can...but I know he is not open to high dosage...he is not a PRO "drugs" and he prefer a good CTB for anxious problems than drugs... He is also very slow on fill prescription, giving the exxact amount of pills for the lapse of time between the next appointment I will have with him, so I will not be able to take more pills and high my dose my-self...like I was doing often with my family doctor...
I think I need to be very strict about what I want and make it clear when I will be in his office...I tend to be very soft and i'm not able to argue with someone like a Pdoc cause I feel inferior in front of him...If he's not happy, I will just say bye bye and return to see my family doctor and ask him to take me again as a patient for psychological problems (the doctor who will prescribe my Parnate and follow my treatment evolution).
I will keep you aware of the situation, I see him this Wednesday morning...Wish me good luck!!!
For now, thanks for your support, you are so nice...I really hope you will find the good solution for your problems...i'm sure the Parnate will kick in again soon ;-) Keep your faith!!!
Take care!
Vincent ;-)
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 12, 2009, at 11:50:03
In reply to Re: Changed my mind..VERY important..pls read.., posted by desolationrower on January 12, 2009, at 2:15:55
> If only one could be prescribed "join a basketball league at the YMCA..."
>
> -d/rHummm is it what we call in "french" "de l'humour noir" "black humour" ? Or it's just a sarcastic comment?...lol Too bad I don't like sports , especially sports team...lol
Posted by desolationrower on January 12, 2009, at 12:47:31
In reply to Re: Changed my mind..VERY important..pls read.. » desolationrower, posted by Vincent_QC on January 12, 2009, at 11:50:03
> > If only one could be prescribed "join a basketball league at the YMCA..."
> >
> > -d/r
>
> Hummm is it what we call in "french" "de l'humour noir" "black humour" ? Or it's just a sarcastic comment?...lol Too bad I don't like sports , especially sports team...loli'm being completely serious. We like what we do a lot, not the otehr way round.
-d/r
Posted by Sigismund on January 12, 2009, at 21:28:12
In reply to Re: Changed my mind..VERY important..pls read.., posted by desolationrower on January 12, 2009, at 2:15:55
If only one could be prescribed "join a basketball league at the YMCA..."
People would refuse to take thie meds.
I was told to join the army and was non-compliant.
Posted by Phillipa on January 12, 2009, at 21:35:32
In reply to Re: Changed my mind..VERY important..pls read.., posted by Sigismund on January 12, 2009, at 21:28:12
Glad Sigi you didn't. Vietnam? My Son blinded in Desert Storm two fingertips blown off all in the name of what???? Working in DC now for wounded soldiers and servicemen and is attending inauguration by invite. Been interviewed. Can't divulge his name but has website through VA. My how we get off subjects. Switzerland my favorite country is neutral wish I could wake to the wonderful sounds of the cow bells each one different spent many weeks there. Phillipa
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 13, 2009, at 6:29:56
In reply to Re: Changed my mind..VERY important..pls read.., posted by desolationrower on January 12, 2009, at 12:47:31
> > > If only one could be prescribed "join a basketball league at the YMCA..."
> > >
> > > -d/r
> >
> > Hummm is it what we call in "french" "de l'humour noir" "black humour" ? Or it's just a sarcastic comment?...lol Too bad I don't like sports , especially sports team...lol
>
> i'm being completely serious. We like what we do a lot, not the otehr way round.
>
> -d/r
>My god, I need to take some English courses as soon as I can!!! lol I don't understand it at all!!! hahaha ;-)
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 13, 2009, at 6:39:16
In reply to Re: Changed my mind..VERY important..pls read.. » Sigismund, posted by Phillipa on January 12, 2009, at 21:35:32
> Glad Sigi you didn't. Vietnam? My Son blinded in Desert Storm two fingertips blown off all in the name of what???? Working in DC now for wounded soldiers and servicemen and is attending inauguration by invite. Been interviewed. Can't divulge his name but has website through VA. My how we get off subjects. Switzerland my favorite country is neutral wish I could wake to the wonderful sounds of the cow bells each one different spent many weeks there. Phillipa
Hummm...did I fall asleep between two post or what? What is the point of the discussion here?...Put me on the good track please ;-) lol Don't speak about travel and others countries... I need to travel as soon as I can!!! That's probably why I choose the "urban planning" programm at the University...Weird cause I do have social phobia and agoraphobia but at the same time I LOVE big cities, with lot of people and a lot of actions, especially the ones richs in the domain of architecture and history !!! I'm out of subject too...lol
Posted by JadeKelly on January 13, 2009, at 13:14:58
In reply to Re: Changed my mind (Thanks to Jade and Scott) ;-) » JadeKelly, posted by Vincent_QC on January 12, 2009, at 11:44:00
> > Hey Vincent!
> >
> > Looks like were Parnate buddies again? Nobody cares how many times you change your mind! You have to do whats right for you. Couple things before I forget:
> >
> > 1. Captain America just posted an article (well two actually but one we haven't seen before, its great! have a look)
> >
> > 2. Side effects, especially BP fluctuations have gone away almost completely, BP runs a little low but if I add salt, etc I could bring it up easily.
> > My point is that the higher the dose, the less the side effects, I noticed that for myself, and I believe the article adresses that as well. So don't be afraid BP problems will get worse, they will probably get better IMHO.
> >
> > 3. I've had second thoughts a couple times, but when I had that period of time that felt like full remission? I knew I was on the right track. Also, I've had a couple of times where I was in a hurry and forgot my pills, boy did I remember I could feel a lot worse. I think we tend to forget.
> >
> > So, Vincent you are at a very low dose, will you increase slowly? I'm sure those few days won't make a difference (well, I'm not SURE but I doubt it) Don't be afraid to increase doses 30mg is what I started at, the higher you go the less side effects, I would suggest talking to your PDoc about getting up to a therapeutic range, ask Scott tho, he knows better than I.
> >
> > Always good to here from you, no matter what you decide! Hope you are happy about your decision. I'm sure it was a hard one to make. Keep me posted!!
> >
> > ~Jade
>
> Hi Jade!
> My god, i'm a little bit confuse with all the threads and post I do since a couple of days...so sorry for the long time before I answer to your message, I don't do it on purpose, trust me ! ;-)
>
> Yeah, we are Parnate buddies again!!! I think the fact that I stop 3 days make me realize that I was going to lose a lot of benefits and improves that I already get on the Parnate. Even if I have side-effects that exhausted me, I think switching to another drug will make no difference at all. I will have to cope with newer side-effects, maybe worse...so why leave the boat after 1 month and more on the Parnate and loose all what I gain on it?
>
> So i'm back on the Parnate, and I hope I will be able to convice my Pdoc to up my dosage more than 30mg/day...that's my goal since I know now that my family doctor don't want to interfer with my Pdoc treatment and don't want to fill a new prescription of 40mg/day of Parnate for me...He told me to ask my Pdoc for this now and discuss with him... That's a 360 degree of change from my family doctor, before he was really open to everything with me and he had no limit on the dosage of drugs...the limit was my level of tolerance of the drug of course...he never try to kill me with too high dose for sure...I was a lot disappointed about his decision to not help me and the fact he refuse to up my dose and I think it's why I decide to leave the boat on the Parnate last week...I was sure that my Pdoc will never want to put me on a more high dose than 30mg/day...
>
> Anyway...for now i'm back at 30mg/day, I don't think 3 days off the Parnate make me loose all the benefits and improves I get in 1 month and I don't think my MAO in my brains reform in 3 days...Yes, I have a little more side-effects now, more than when I stop last week, especially orthostatic hypotension, but i'm sure it will fade away faster...For the fatigue and the hypertension, since I know I will not die of a 160/80 blood pressure, I feel less overstress about it... When I feel that my heart beat more slow and harder, it's a sign that I do high blood pressure but I try to focus on something else and one time on two I succeed to lower my blood pressure...I think it's more psychological, since I have a panic disorder and general anxiety, my thoughts can strongly influence the side effects I have...that's a true fact and a reality and I have to cope with that...
>
> So that's it, I meet my Pdoc this week, I will show to him all the studies the others members from this forum post, especially the one of Captain America as well as others importants studies...I will try to convince him the best I can...but I know he is not open to high dosage...he is not a PRO "drugs" and he prefer a good CTB for anxious problems than drugs... He is also very slow on fill prescription, giving the exxact amount of pills for the lapse of time between the next appointment I will have with him, so I will not be able to take more pills and high my dose my-self...like I was doing often with my family doctor...
>
> I think I need to be very strict about what I want and make it clear when I will be in his office...I tend to be very soft and i'm not able to argue with someone like a Pdoc cause I feel inferior in front of him...If he's not happy, I will just say bye bye and return to see my family doctor and ask him to take me again as a patient for psychological problems (the doctor who will prescribe my Parnate and follow my treatment evolution).
>
> I will keep you aware of the situation, I see him this Wednesday morning...Wish me good luck!!!
>
> For now, thanks for your support, you are so nice...I really hope you will find the good solution for your problems...i'm sure the Parnate will kick in again soon ;-) Keep your faith!!!
>
> Take care!
>
> Vincent ;-)Hi Vincent!
I'm keepin the faith! Sorry you are having trouble getting you're dose increased. Will they ever increase it? Or do they think 30mg is good permanently? It seems like they would know that you may have to increase at some point from your starting dose. How long have you been at 30mg? You sound cheerful so that's good! Having some /alot of good days? I hope so. Wellness doesn't happen overnight, does it? At least not for me, haha! Have you been going out more? Thats my goal, is to get out more.
Well I will wish you luck for your appointment!
Let me know how you do.~Jade
>
>
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 13, 2009, at 14:40:06
In reply to Re: Changed my mind (Thanks to Jade and Scott) ;-) » Vincent_QC, posted by JadeKelly on January 13, 2009, at 13:14:58
> Hi Vincent!
>
> I'm keepin the faith! Sorry you are having trouble getting you're dose increased. Will they ever increase it? Or do they think 30mg is good permanently? It seems like they would know that you may have to increase at some point from your starting dose. How long have you been at 30mg? You sound cheerful so that's good! Having some /alot of good days? I hope so. Wellness doesn't happen overnight, does it? At least not for me, haha! Have you been going out more? Thats my goal, is to get out more.
>
> Well I will wish you luck for your appointment!
> Let me know how you do.
>
> ~Jade
> >Hi Jade!
Well, no i'm not going out more...in fact I need more and more energy and motivation to go out, just to get clean and dress make me tired as hell...I feel completly empty of any energy after so my evening are not very funny for now...I had more fun night before the Parnate I think...I had a very miserable day yesterday, return in force of side-effects, high blood pressure, muscles pain, headache...On the top of that, I had a phone call from the office of my Pdoc, my appointment is reported to next week...aparently...the Pdoc have an emergency tomorrow...I don't see the point of being reported only next week...that's a long time, one week for an emergency...lol I was not really happy this morning...
So, I change my mind again, no i'm not bi-polar...lol
I think I need to take a small break of the Parnate, something inside it is not made for me...I never had any problem with the Nardil except the daytime sedation (Parnate do the same to me anyway at daytime) and orthostatic hypotension but at a dose of 90mg/day, not at 75mg or 60mg... I had a more normal life, I was going to the university at the same time, yes I was tired often, but never at the same level than now...
With the Nardil, I will have a more large dose range, between 60mg to 90mg...with the Parnate it's limited 30mg , and it will be probably the maximum I will be able to have from my Pdoc...and I don't think my Pdoc will want to discuss and read the studies about high doses uses of Parnate on treatment resistant patient, he start me at 15mg/day on the Nardil...for 1 whole month...you can see a little bit how he work...veryyyy ssssllllooooowwwwww doooossseeee to "minimise" the side-effects...I just think it's make them last longer in fact...and make the results appears more later...
So, this week i'm off the Parnate again, I will stay with my Valium only...taking more of it if I feel the need of more...and I will have a long talk with my Pdoc next week about what we do and the choice of another treatment...
Even if you told me 10 times before that the side-effects fade away with time on the Parnate, I just feel tired to be on it, especially tired of the hi and low I have on it...
I think I should ask to return to the Nardil as a first option or discuss about going on a TCA's (but I doubt they are effective for social phobia and anxiety), at least The Nardil is a good classic MAOI, more stable for me, I never had any high blood pressure on it, in fact my blood pressure was lower than usual on it. I was able to live a more normal life and didn't care about having a spontaneaous hypertensive crisis and things like that.
So that's all...Another day in my life...and a not very good one...but well that's life...I will post an update after my Pdoc appointment for sure ;-)
Thanks for your support and take care of you ;-)
Bye!
Vincent ;-)
Posted by sissy35 on January 13, 2009, at 16:24:53
In reply to Re: Changed my mind (Thanks to Jade and Scott) ;-) » JadeKelly, posted by Vincent_QC on January 13, 2009, at 14:40:06
So sorry to hear you are not doing well. I realy hope you find something that helps. Did you consider going back to nardil or has it stopped working for you? It was great for me for about 20yrs.
wish you well
Sissy35
Posted by JadeKelly on January 13, 2009, at 17:45:01
In reply to Re: Changed my mind (Thanks to Jade and Scott) ;-) » JadeKelly, posted by Vincent_QC on January 13, 2009, at 14:40:06
>
> > Hi Vincent!
> >
> > I'm keepin the faith! Sorry you are having trouble getting you're dose increased. Will they ever increase it? Or do they think 30mg is good permanently? It seems like they would know that you may have to increase at some point from your starting dose. How long have you been at 30mg? You sound cheerful so that's good! Having some /alot of good days? I hope so. Wellness doesn't happen overnight, does it? At least not for me, haha! Have you been going out more? Thats my goal, is to get out more.
> >
> > Well I will wish you luck for your appointment!
> > Let me know how you do.
> >
> > ~Jade
> > >
>
> Hi Jade!
> Well, no i'm not going out more...in fact I need more and more energy and motivation to go out, just to get clean and dress make me tired as hell...I feel completly empty of any energy after so my evening are not very funny for now...I had more fun night before the Parnate I think...
>
> I had a very miserable day yesterday, return in force of side-effects, high blood pressure, muscles pain, headache...On the top of that, I had a phone call from the office of my Pdoc, my appointment is reported to next week...aparently...the Pdoc have an emergency tomorrow...I don't see the point of being reported only next week...that's a long time, one week for an emergency...lol I was not really happy this morning...
>
> So, I change my mind again, no i'm not bi-polar...lol
>
> I think I need to take a small break of the Parnate, something inside it is not made for me...I never had any problem with the Nardil except the daytime sedation (Parnate do the same to me anyway at daytime) and orthostatic hypotension but at a dose of 90mg/day, not at 75mg or 60mg... I had a more normal life, I was going to the university at the same time, yes I was tired often, but never at the same level than now...
>
> With the Nardil, I will have a more large dose range, between 60mg to 90mg...with the Parnate it's limited 30mg , and it will be probably the maximum I will be able to have from my Pdoc...and I don't think my Pdoc will want to discuss and read the studies about high doses uses of Parnate on treatment resistant patient, he start me at 15mg/day on the Nardil...for 1 whole month...you can see a little bit how he work...veryyyy ssssllllooooowwwwww doooossseeee to "minimise" the side-effects...I just think it's make them last longer in fact...and make the results appears more later...
>
> So, this week i'm off the Parnate again, I will stay with my Valium only...taking more of it if I feel the need of more...and I will have a long talk with my Pdoc next week about what we do and the choice of another treatment...
>
> Even if you told me 10 times before that the side-effects fade away with time on the Parnate, I just feel tired to be on it, especially tired of the hi and low I have on it...
>
> I think I should ask to return to the Nardil as a first option or discuss about going on a TCA's (but I doubt they are effective for social phobia and anxiety), at least The Nardil is a good classic MAOI, more stable for me, I never had any high blood pressure on it, in fact my blood pressure was lower than usual on it. I was able to live a more normal life and didn't care about having a spontaneaous hypertensive crisis and things like that.
>
> So that's all...Another day in my life...and a not very good one...but well that's life...I will post an update after my Pdoc appointment for sure ;-)
>
> Thanks for your support and take care of you ;-)
>
> Bye!
>
> Vincent ;-)
Hi Vincent!I'm sorry you had such a crappy day. And to have to wait another week when you're making big decisions here. I'm sure its frustrating. As for the change, I'm behind ya no matter what you choose! I'm sure you'll come up with what's right for you!
I sure do know what you mean about the fatigue. The insomnia is gone unless I want to stay up. My BP is fine. The only thing that's left is that darn daytime fatigue. I don't ever sleep, I just feel like I wanna lay around. I'm hoping when this kicks in like it did before I'll have the energy, too. It wasn't speedy energy, it was just my normal state which I was pretty energetic before depression. So, I don't blame you one bit. Let me know how much your energy level returns, I'm curious. For me though, I felt this way before I took Parnate so, hard to figure out whats causing what!
Let me know how you are over the next few days.
You'll get it figured out and we're here if you wanna "talk"!~Jade
>
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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