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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Maria3667 on November 11, 2008, at 14:47:12
Dear JB,
Are you still on Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN). Just wondering about your progress...
My best,
Maria> I am continuing to have sleeping problems after taking LDN. I am still able to fall asleep ok, but I have noticed that about 1-2 am I start waking up quite a bit and tossing and turning, feeling as if its time to wake up.
>
> Before LDN, this never happened. Your body makes its endorphins around this time of night (1-3 am), and b/c the naltrexone blocks those receptors your body is basically fooled to make more endorphins than you normally would, thus doubling the amount of endorphins you make.
>
> I don'tthink its coincidence this is also the time of night I start waking up and feel very alert.
>
> The main positive effectsI have noticed is that I do not have any brain fog anymore- at all. Negatives I have noticed are a feeling of bodily shakiness , but no mental anxiety, my mind has been quite calm. I have also noticed an immediate moderate increase in libido, which is always a nice effect.
>
> It feels just like it theoretically should-
> the feeling you get after you exercise way to hard and you get an endorphin rush.
>
> Overall I think this can be helpful, but I believe I am getting a bit too much endorphins with my current dose. I am going to half my dose and see how it goes.
>
> If anyone else is taking this I would love to hear their experiences.
>
> JB
Posted by bleauberry on November 11, 2008, at 20:39:51
In reply to Jimmy Boy - how's the LDN doing???, posted by Maria3667 on November 11, 2008, at 14:47:12
Well, I'm not JimmyBoy, but I recently started LDN. I am on a short vacation from it but will return any day now.
I started at 1.5mg. Sleep was lighter than usual the first 3 days, and when I woke my tinnitus was louder than usual, so I knew something was going on. At waking I felt groggy but quickly recovered from that. After 3 days I was sleeping very well, better than normal.
The first few days were see-saw. Massive attacks of crippling fatigue, and then times of feeling ok, all kind of random mixed together, maybe a few hours of each back and forth. After a week fatigue was mostly gone. I had a little more energy than usual, but more pronounced than that was I had more endurance than usual. I could work more without the usual fatigue that comes from it.
Libido increased. For a man, LDN is good because it somehow relaxes the bladder and prostate, allowing longer time between bathroom trips and better flow. Sexual desire and ability is increased.
Appetite might have been a little lower than usual overall, but sometimes I felt real hungry.
I played lots and lots of guitar. That was awesome. Creativity seemed to flow.
The biggest most dramatic thing I noticed was the calm anti-anxiety without drowsiness. I mean, I was calm calm calm. Even in a fight or an argument I had a very peaceful tone to my voice and I was so relaxed. It was not the benzo or the ssri kind of numbness thing. It was different than that. The morning raciness/anxiety/panic/craziness I've been waking up to for years was completely gone. I can't help but think LDN might be the best anti-anxiety med and perhaps also a good antipsychotic med.
Mood overall was improved maybe 10% to 20% better. There were random times when sadness would hit me, but it usually was short lived.
It is almost as if, if you weren't feeling good, if you just forced yourself into doing something that should supposedly bring pleasure or enjoyment, such as an activity or hobby, soon you would actually be feeling better. It's almost as if the endorphins are there and ready to do their job, but they need you to do your job and give them something to get excited about.
Anyway, the goal is to get to 4.5mg. So I went from 1.5mg to 3mg. That was a mistake. I really started feeling worse than I had started at that dose. All the gains I had at 1.5mg were lost. So I bailed out, I'm washing out, and will restart. I am very sensitive to things, so maybe all I need is .75mg to 1.5mg. I can't believe how powerful naltrexone is. People actually take 50mg? Holy cow.
Posted by desolationrower on November 11, 2008, at 20:51:08
In reply to Re: Jimmy Boy - how's the LDN doing???, posted by bleauberry on November 11, 2008, at 20:39:51
thanks, that was an interesting post.
do you take if before bed? is that unpleasant?
does it affect energy level and aggressiveness?
-d/r
Posted by Maria3667 on November 12, 2008, at 5:58:54
In reply to Re: Jimmy Boy - how's the LDN doing???, posted by bleauberry on November 11, 2008, at 20:39:51
Hi BB,
Thanks for that post. Very interesting!
I wonder if LDN will have the same effect on females?
I got my DR to prescribe LDN yesterday and I expect to have it by Saturday. The main reason I want to try it out is because my body has become unsensitive to tranquillizers... Anxiety/panic attacks & low self esteem are my main concern....
LDN is also reputed to help people with auto-immune diseases. About the same time Sjogren's Syndrome (AI-disease) manifested itself in me, I also had a surge in anxiety (some studies claim people with AI-disease are more prone to depression/anxiety). And in the same period I became hypothyroid...
I'm really curious which of the aforementioned will benefit from LDN. I know I should be realistic and not have my hopes up too high... but you know, maybe, just maybe, I'll start enjoying life again after all these years...
Take care + keep us updated!
Maria> Well, I'm not JimmyBoy, but I recently started LDN. I am on a short vacation from it but will return any day now.
>
> I started at 1.5mg. Sleep was lighter than usual the first 3 days, and when I woke my tinnitus was louder than usual, so I knew something was going on. At waking I felt groggy but quickly recovered from that. After 3 days I was sleeping very well, better than normal.
>
> The first few days were see-saw. Massive attacks of crippling fatigue, and then times of feeling ok, all kind of random mixed together, maybe a few hours of each back and forth. After a week fatigue was mostly gone. I had a little more energy than usual, but more pronounced than that was I had more endurance than usual. I could work more without the usual fatigue that comes from it.
>
> Libido increased. For a man, LDN is good because it somehow relaxes the bladder and prostate, allowing longer time between bathroom trips and better flow. Sexual desire and ability is increased.
>
> Appetite might have been a little lower than usual overall, but sometimes I felt real hungry.
>
> I played lots and lots of guitar. That was awesome. Creativity seemed to flow.
>
> The biggest most dramatic thing I noticed was the calm anti-anxiety without drowsiness. I mean, I was calm calm calm. Even in a fight or an argument I had a very peaceful tone to my voice and I was so relaxed. It was not the benzo or the ssri kind of numbness thing. It was different than that. The morning raciness/anxiety/panic/craziness I've been waking up to for years was completely gone. I can't help but think LDN might be the best anti-anxiety med and perhaps also a good antipsychotic med.
>
> Mood overall was improved maybe 10% to 20% better. There were random times when sadness would hit me, but it usually was short lived.
>
> It is almost as if, if you weren't feeling good, if you just forced yourself into doing something that should supposedly bring pleasure or enjoyment, such as an activity or hobby, soon you would actually be feeling better. It's almost as if the endorphins are there and ready to do their job, but they need you to do your job and give them something to get excited about.
>
> Anyway, the goal is to get to 4.5mg. So I went from 1.5mg to 3mg. That was a mistake. I really started feeling worse than I had started at that dose. All the gains I had at 1.5mg were lost. So I bailed out, I'm washing out, and will restart. I am very sensitive to things, so maybe all I need is .75mg to 1.5mg. I can't believe how powerful naltrexone is. People actually take 50mg? Holy cow.
Posted by bleauberry on November 14, 2008, at 16:18:22
In reply to Re: Jimmy Boy - how's the LDN doing??? » bleauberry, posted by desolationrower on November 11, 2008, at 20:51:08
Yes, LDN is supposed to be taken at bedtime, and only at bedtime, assuming of course someone's bedtime is 9:00pm-1:00am. The timing is critical for the way it works. Even if some were working a nightshift job, they would still have to take their dose somewhere in the 9pm to 1pm window.
Unpleasantness? No. The first few nights I woke early, had a hard time getting back to sleep, had vivid dreams, louder tinnitus, felt groggy at waking. Sure, that was somewhat unpleasant. But I mean, for psych drug side effects, it was pretty mild. The good news is that after a few nights, I slept better than before and my tinnitus got quieter than before.
Energy level...mild increase.
Aggressiveness...well, it is mixed. On one had there is more aggressiveness due to having a bit more energy, but on the other hand it also gives a state of relaxation and peace. It is not the dull numb kind of peace of SSRIs. Actually now that I think about it, I was very aggressive on guitar. Instead of playing an hour each evening, I was playing several hours, and actually enjoying it a lot instead of just working through the routines.
thanks, that was an interesting post.
>
> do you take if before bed? is that unpleasant?
>
> does it affect energy level and aggressiveness?
>
> -d/r
Posted by bleauberry on November 14, 2008, at 16:56:17
In reply to Re: Jimmy Boy - how's the LDN doing??? » bleauberry, posted by Maria3667 on November 12, 2008, at 5:58:54
As you mentioned, LDN is supposed to be good for autoimmune syndromes. It seems to have potential in them across the board. Anything that has to do with the immune system. There have been some startling amazing reports, and many others that were more modest yet noteworthy.
A high percentage of people get some kind of benefit from LDN. Miracle stories are not as common, but LDN does seem to be helpful to most people who try it. Some users have encouraged that it should not be expected to be a miracle, but that it should provide benefits significant enough that continuing with it is desirable.
The only significant negative effect I had from it was that my carbuncles (clusters of dormant boils) on my buttocks really flared up, got puffy and sore and oozed puss, where usually they are more dormant than that. I have always figured their stubborness to go away must have something to do with impaired immunity, and that LDN would be good for that. But instead they got significantly worse. But that was only a little over a week. They say it takes 2 to 3 months for the immunity stuff to really show. And that before that time, symptoms can actually get worse during the transition. Maybe that's what was happening with me.
I have also noted that anything pro-NE or pro-DA seems to flare up those carbuncles. Pro-5ht shrinks them. So I can't help but wonder if LDN somehow increases NE and/or DA funtion.
LDN has been reported to have strong effect against the autoimmune thyroid condition called Hashimotos. So whether or not it will have effect on your hypothyroidism or not, I don't know.
Being such a tiny dose, I see no harm in many people at least giving this strategy a look. Ya know, if you roam the websites where people rate their medications, you'll typically see one decent report followed by 2 or 3 lousy ones, then another decent one, then 2 or 3 more lousy ones, and so on. With LDN, it is more like 8 decent ones and then one lousy one and then 8 more decent ones. But again, miracle stories don't seem to be as common, maybe 1 out 10 I'm guessing, but they do happen. As I see it, anything that can arrest a disease in its tracks and improve the patient's life/comfort is a good thing, especially when it involves only a fraction of a normal dose.
So my best wishes to you. I hope you are one of the miracle stories. If that doesn't turn out, then I pray you are one of the majority that gets some kind of benefit worth keeping.
Posted by Jimmyboy on November 16, 2008, at 11:22:11
In reply to Re: Jimmy Boy - how's the LDN doing??? » Maria3667, posted by bleauberry on November 14, 2008, at 16:56:17
I agree with you bleauberry,
LDN is definitely something people around here should at least look into very seriously..as either a first line treatment or an adjunct to what they are already taking. The benefit that can be gained from this vs. the liklihood and severity of side effects make it a great choice.
Plus it gets out of your body in about a day and a half if you don't like it... and its SUPER cheap.Again, like bleauberry said, timing on taking this is the key. You have to take it from 9pm-1 or 2am or its not going to work.
The fact that I can pop out of bed in the morning full of energy and motivation is absolutely wonderful. The mood elevation does not knock you over, but it feels "real" - emotions are not blunted like most AD's. For instance, driving home the other day I just looked around and noticed what a great day it was and how pretty the scenery was. Normally this is not something I would notice. Also, adding some cardio exercise into the mix makes you feel real good. I can definitely feel the runners high (endorphins rush)kick in fast everytime I do a little biking/running.
One thing to note ( which is not surprising in retrospect) is that you probably don't want to drink alcohol while taking this. I used to have a rather large tolerance and could be very functional after having several drinks. Not anymore.. I had two light beers and I was down for the count. Made me really groggy and "zoned out". Also felt pretty crappy the next day. But the day after I felt fine, so not a big deal.
Posted by Maria3667 on November 19, 2008, at 10:44:21
In reply to Re: Jimmy Boy - how's the LDN doing??? » Maria3667, posted by bleauberry on November 14, 2008, at 16:56:17
Hi guys,
Thanks for that great info! I enjoyed reading that and it gives me some sense of hope (which is deperately needed in my household!).
The only thing I'm wondering about, what dosages are you on? Did you start of on 1.5 mg like me? How long before you started to notice any benefits? And how many weeks/months have you been on LDN?
Thanks,
Maria
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