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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by frillyknickers on November 12, 2008, at 9:37:08
I don't abuse alcohol, I rarely drink honestly.
but when I do, having a few drinks really makes my anxiety melt away like NOTHING else. I've tried xanax, klonopin, ativan, etc. doesn't compare at all.
worse than that though is that the effects of alcohol seem to be more tolerable than those of the benzos for me; I have horrid memory problems with benzos but it's hardly noticeable with alcohol.
it's incredibly frustrating.
Posted by manic666 on November 12, 2008, at 13:08:56
In reply to why does alcohol work better than benzos for me?, posted by frillyknickers on November 12, 2008, at 9:37:08
alchol an benzo,s together work even better ,but i dont advize it. they soon come to large amounts, an in my case very large amounts . its a very simple road to take, a bit like the yellow brick road with all weird an wonderful things happening, but the road soon ends an you have to turn back an that my special is a very very long road. MANIC666
Posted by Phillipa on November 13, 2008, at 13:01:08
In reply to Re: why does alcohol work better than benzos for me?, posted by manic666 on November 12, 2008, at 13:08:56
Thought I answered this thread as 4-6 coronas and just .5 xanax I slept wonderful and felt wonderful the next day as only drank at night before bed after work when was working. Love Phillipa
Posted by Valero on November 13, 2008, at 15:50:44
In reply to why does alcohol work better than benzos for me?, posted by frillyknickers on November 12, 2008, at 9:37:08
Why is it frustrating? I mean what's wrong with a couple of drinks to help one relax. Just imagine for one year you had 2-3 glasses of wine a day, then stopped abruptly. Compare this to taking a Valium a day for one year then stop abruptly.
Some months ago I gave up drinking a bottle of wine a day of a multi-year period, nothing, absolutely no craving or withdrawal. Then last week I( stupidly) took a 10mg Chlorazepate tab. (60hr half life) 5 days later I'm still pestered by typical benzo withdrawal symptoms. Benzodiazepines suck, and suck big time.
Invest in a nice bottle of Bordeaux my dear,
ŕ votre santé!
Posted by yxibow on November 14, 2008, at 1:47:20
In reply to Re: why does alcohol work better than benzos for me?, posted by Valero on November 13, 2008, at 15:50:44
> Why is it frustrating? I mean what's wrong with a couple of drinks to help one relax. Just imagine for one year you had 2-3 glasses of wine a day, then stopped abruptly. Compare this to taking a Valium a day for one year then stop abruptly.
> Some months ago I gave up drinking a bottle of wine a day of a multi-year period, nothing, absolutely no craving or withdrawal. Then last week I( stupidly) took a 10mg Chlorazepate tab. (60hr half life) 5 days later I'm still pestered by typical benzo withdrawal symptoms. Benzodiazepines suck, and suck big time.
> Invest in a nice bottle of Bordeaux my dear,
> ŕ votre santé!
>If you stopped having 2-3 drinks of wine a day and you were using it to drown depressive anxiety or just plain anxiety, you would have withdrawals possibly, depending how susceptible to alcoholism and other things that you are, not to mention the weight gain from it if your metabolism is pretty slow.
Alcohol does work on GABA among other things.
Posted by yxibow on November 14, 2008, at 1:51:05
In reply to Re: why does alcohol work better than benzos for me?, posted by Phillipa on November 13, 2008, at 13:01:08
> Thought I answered this thread as 4-6 coronas and just .5 xanax I slept wonderful and felt wonderful the next day as only drank at night before bed after work when was working. Love Phillipa
Yes you have Jan -- 6 drinks of alcohol, a benzodiazepine, and the chloral hydrate that I believe is sometimes thrown in there (gack!), is a miracle that you pushed through that without serious harm.
Not everyone is the same. 6 drinks a day is considerably over the top for the average woman and a fair bit over for the average man.
I'm not saying you have it, but that can lead in the direction of alcoholism and sheer hepatoxicity.
Not to mention the combination of all the drugs above could lead to coma.
Modest drinks of 1-2 glasses per day or every other day, if you don't have a lot of CNS depressants (benzos, antidepressants, AEDs) on board, may or may not be fine for an -individual-.
-- Jay
Posted by manic666 on November 14, 2008, at 5:10:06
In reply to Re: why does alcohol work better than benzos for me? » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on November 14, 2008, at 1:51:05
listen to this one . in england the rave dance culture. instead of E,TABS would take 2 or 3 lorozapam mabye more . combined with alchol an danceing they could rave all night an not feel tied or drunk. how did that work . they probaly slept for 2 days after . but i found that at first before going to crazy numbers of loz, that 2mg an drinking you felt great but not drunk . loz the new coke.manic666
Posted by JadeKelly on November 14, 2008, at 14:32:57
In reply to why does alcohol work better than benzos for me?, posted by frillyknickers on November 12, 2008, at 9:37:08
> I don't abuse alcohol, I rarely drink honestly.
>
> but when I do, having a few drinks really makes my anxiety melt away like NOTHING else. I've tried xanax, klonopin, ativan, etc. doesn't compare at all.
>
> worse than that though is that the effects of alcohol seem to be more tolerable than those of the benzos for me; I have horrid memory problems with benzos but it's hardly noticeable with alcohol.
>
> it's incredibly frustrating.Don't see anything wrong with a couple of drinks now and then, as long as you're not mixing with meds!
Ask Pdoc (if you're comfortable) my Pdoc didn't have problem with it till I started Parnate. I can't drink at all now. Bummer.Good luck!~Jade
Posted by kenny7 on November 14, 2008, at 16:51:55
In reply to why does alcohol work better than benzos for me?, posted by frillyknickers on November 12, 2008, at 9:37:08
Terrible habit to get into. Trust me. Do you have social anxiety? What are the doses? Benzos work for EVERYONE...Just about.
Posted by kenny7 on November 14, 2008, at 16:53:22
In reply to Re: why does alcohol work better than benzos for me? » frillyknickers, posted by JadeKelly on November 14, 2008, at 14:32:57
jade you can drink Vodka with absolutely NO risk. This coming from someone who takes Nardil too. You are familiar with fermentation/aging correct?
Posted by kenny7 on November 14, 2008, at 16:55:42
In reply to Re: why does alcohol work better than benzos for me?, posted by kenny7 on November 14, 2008, at 16:53:22
As alcohol leaves your body you experience anxiety. No hangover with the benz's either...If you really need them. People with clinical anxiety drink more than you (if not already properly medicated) and/or claim Benzos to be anxiety killers. The efficay of them is never an issue, just the tolerance and subsequent withdrawal.
Posted by kenny7 on November 14, 2008, at 16:58:03
In reply to Re: why does alcohol work better than benzos for me? » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on November 14, 2008, at 1:51:05
.5 xanax is nothing.
Posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2008, at 19:58:53
In reply to Re: why does alcohol work better than benzos for me? » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on November 14, 2008, at 1:51:05
Jay stopped drinking when chloral hydrate was added as that would be a Mickey Finn. I tolerated the beet just fine and quality of life to me is more important than longivity. Liver enzymes are fine. And when was drinking was also working and getting certified in pscy nationally. For me safer than meds. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2008, at 20:02:25
In reply to Re: why does alcohol work better than benzos for me?, posted by kenny7 on November 14, 2008, at 16:58:03
Kenny I know!!!!!! Love Phillipa
Posted by that_guy23 on November 20, 2008, at 6:54:14
In reply to why does alcohol work better than benzos for me?, posted by frillyknickers on November 12, 2008, at 9:37:08
There is nothing that I have experienced yet, that will whipe away SA like a six pack of beer or a couple or 3 stiff drinks, depending on your tolerance. I've been on drugs where its been whiped away, but your just f*ck*d right up, with just the right amount of alcohol, you feel perfect. It is,in my opinion, at just that first part of the buzz, where your just comfortable and happy, you without social anxiety disorder!!
Posted by yxibow on November 20, 2008, at 23:26:26
In reply to Re: why does alcohol work better than benzos for me?, posted by that_guy23 on November 20, 2008, at 6:54:14
> There is nothing that I have experienced yet, that will whipe away SA like a six pack of beer or a couple or 3 stiff drinks, depending on your tolerance. I've been on drugs where its been whiped away, but your just f*ck*d right up, with just the right amount of alcohol, you feel perfect. It is,in my opinion, at just that first part of the buzz, where your just comfortable and happy, you without social anxiety disorder!!
I don't know how to put it but a six pack of beer, light, is nearly 600 calories. (Just like six non dietcolas are more than 900 calories). If you're taking metabolically changing medicines, that's just the icing on the cake to worry about.
6 bottles of beer are 6 1/2 ounces of your average tequila and 6 glasses of wine in pure 100% alcohol content.
Its the same on your brain, your liver, and whatever you're taking.
I'm not trying to be a teetotaler, but it is the #1 reason why someone has -A- drink or two at a bar. They feel "loosened up" and lose their inhibitions a bit and are able to talk to someone.
I'm not saying that's a good or a bad thing, I know that a lot of us, including myself, have done that. But it isn't particularly attractive to have (for me, for someone else, whatever sex) a guy who has had 6 drinks attempt to slother themselves over me.
That's some high alcohol tolerance, that's all I can say -- and its true, genetically we all vary -- generally Asians from certain regions are missing a certain enzyme, so breakdown of ethanol is hard and face flushing can occur among other things.
But if you're taking any significant dose of benzodiazepines or other CNS depressants and you're taking the equivalent of 6 doses of Everclear (the real stuff) daily, it isn't a good plan, in my opinion. Its alcohol poisoning for some.
And not to mention the day after.
Plans that include psychological intervention into the causes of social phobia will work much better than just attempting to "patch it over" alone with medication.
Don't get me wrong, this is the medication board and it serves a purpose -- there is other work to be done too, and the last thing I wanted to get in is that it IS NOT YOUR FAULT for having this disorder.
-- tidings
-- Jay
Posted by desolationrower on November 20, 2008, at 23:43:04
In reply to Re: why does alcohol work better than benzos for me? » that_guy23, posted by yxibow on November 20, 2008, at 23:26:26
> > There is nothing that I have experienced yet, that will whipe away SA like a six pack of beer or a couple or 3 stiff drinks, depending on your tolerance. I've been on drugs where its been whiped away, but your just f*ck*d right up, with just the right amount of alcohol, you feel perfect. It is,in my opinion, at just that first part of the buzz, where your just comfortable and happy, you without social anxiety disorder!!
>
> I don't know how to put it but a six pack of beer, light, is nearly 600 calories. (Just like six non dietcolas are more than 900 calories). If you're taking metabolically changing medicines, that's just the icing on the cake to worry about.
>
> 6 bottles of beer are 6 1/2 ounces of your average tequila and 6 glasses of wine in pure 100% alcohol content.
>
> Its the same on your brain, your liver, and whatever you're taking.
>
> I'm not trying to be a teetotaler, but it is the #1 reason why someone has -A- drink or two at a bar. They feel "loosened up" and lose their inhibitions a bit and are able to talk to someone.
>
> I'm not saying that's a good or a bad thing, I know that a lot of us, including myself, have done that. But it isn't particularly attractive to have (for me, for someone else, whatever sex) a guy who has had 6 drinks attempt to slother themselves over me.
>
> That's some high alcohol tolerance, that's all I can say -- and its true, genetically we all vary -- generally Asians from certain regions are missing a certain enzyme, so breakdown of ethanol is hard and face flushing can occur among other things.
>
> But if you're taking any significant dose of benzodiazepines or other CNS depressants and you're taking the equivalent of 6 doses of Everclear (the real stuff) daily, it isn't a good plan, in my opinion. Its alcohol poisoning for some.
>
> And not to mention the day after.
>
> Plans that include psychological intervention into the causes of social phobia will work much better than just attempting to "patch it over" alone with medication.
>
> Don't get me wrong, this is the medication board and it serves a purpose -- there is other work to be done too, and the last thing I wanted to get in is that it IS NOT YOUR FAULT for having this disorder.
>
> -- tidings
>
> -- Jayi don't drink that often but 6 beers is really not that large an amount, certainly very far from alcohol poisoning or incoherent speech...i know lots of people here are from the places where it is frowned upon to drink, but still...
-d/r
Posted by that_guy23 on November 21, 2008, at 16:21:15
In reply to Re: why does alcohol work better than benzos for me? » that_guy23, posted by yxibow on November 20, 2008, at 23:26:26
> > There is nothing that I have experienced yet, that will whipe away SA like a six pack of beer or a couple or 3 stiff drinks, depending on your tolerance. I've been on drugs where its been whiped away, but your just f*ck*d right up, with just the right amount of alcohol, you feel perfect. It is,in my opinion, at just that first part of the buzz, where your just comfortable and happy, you without social anxiety disorder!!
>
> I don't know how to put it but a six pack of beer, light, is nearly 600 calories. (Just like six non dietcolas are more than 900 calories). If you're taking metabolically changing medicines, that's just the icing on the cake to worry about.
>
> 6 bottles of beer are 6 1/2 ounces of your average tequila and 6 glasses of wine in pure 100% alcohol content.
>
> Its the same on your brain, your liver, and whatever you're taking.
>
> I'm not trying to be a teetotaler, but it is the #1 reason why someone has -A- drink or two at a bar. They feel "loosened up" and lose their inhibitions a bit and are able to talk to someone.
>
> I'm not saying that's a good or a bad thing, I know that a lot of us, including myself, have done that. But it isn't particularly attractive to have (for me, for someone else, whatever sex) a guy who has had 6 drinks attempt to slother themselves over me.
>
> That's some high alcohol tolerance, that's all I can say -- and its true, genetically we all vary -- generally Asians from certain regions are missing a certain enzyme, so breakdown of ethanol is hard and face flushing can occur among other things.
>
> But if you're taking any significant dose of benzodiazepines or other CNS depressants and you're taking the equivalent of 6 doses of Everclear (the real stuff) daily, it isn't a good plan, in my opinion. Its alcohol poisoning for some.
>
> And not to mention the day after.
>
> Plans that include psychological intervention into the causes of social phobia will work much better than just attempting to "patch it over" alone with medication.
>
> Don't get me wrong, this is the medication board and it serves a purpose -- there is other work to be done too, and the last thing I wanted to get in is that it IS NOT YOUR FAULT for having this disorder.
>
> -- tidings
>
> -- JayHey,dude, I do have a alcohol problem, but I've been clean for almost 4 months, well 1 relapse.
well thats not the point, I was only saying how taking whatever amount of alcohol that makes you comfortable, and takes away tou inhibitions mostly, is how you would be without SA. I just meant there is no med that gives you that feleling, not that tyou should self medicate in this way, I would never imply that, and I'm sorry to anyone else who thougt that. I just thought that with the thread it was what I wanted to make known, and that no benzo is gonna do that, guarnteed. I do hope there is ad's out there that makes you feel the way i'm saying I feel after a few drinks, or very similar.
Posted by Phillipa on November 21, 2008, at 19:06:06
In reply to Re: why does alcohol work better than benz)yxibow, posted by that_guy23 on November 21, 2008, at 16:21:15
I never found one and was never drunk on 4-6 beers guess good tolerance. To me drugs can mess up the liver. In the olden days alchohol was drug of choice and in Europe children as well as adults drink wine with meals. That was my experience while there. Phillipa
Posted by yxibow on November 22, 2008, at 1:43:04
In reply to Re: why does alcohol work better than benz)yxibow » that_guy23, posted by Phillipa on November 21, 2008, at 19:06:06
> I never found one and was never drunk on 4-6 beers guess good tolerance. To me drugs can mess up the liver. In the olden days alchohol was drug of choice and in Europe children as well as adults drink wine with meals. That was my experience while there. Phillipa
Yes -- in Europe, France... I know... but they wouldn't serve their children six glasses of wine. I think that the age should be 16 or 18 -- because it teaches teenagers earlier not to binge drink among other things. I drunk under the table a whole bottle of wine a few times in college but I stopped. It was mostly because I was... depressed.
6 drinks for some may not be alcohol poisoning, but knowing having gone to college there was at least one incident probably alcohol related at a fraternity and the guy fell over the balcony and died. Another one was paralyzed for life. IFC (intra-fraternity council) was drilled and there was at least one or two fraternities suspended.
If you are not taking any medications, 6 drinks may be fine, once. But shots of vodka and tequila one after the other, until you're beyond under the table, is alcohol poisoning, no matter how skinny or large you are, that may make some difference, but its not the whole picture.If you're lucky you're in the ICU.
Its the blood level of the alcohol, not just the liver that I'm talking about. Some people with alcohol poisoning measure not .08 but .25%, which is certain death if not treated immediately.
Just be careful and prudent, that's all I'm saying.
A toast to the and old lang syne, sure, that's fine, but I can't see a six pack every night, its just too hard on someone. I know, Jan, that you've mentioned the story of it, and maybe you can tolerate it, but its risky. Yes, I've gotten up to 4 drinks when I wasn't taking much medication, but it was the first time I think that I ever vomited in my life from alcohol. Maybe twice I have.
This is a graphic description and I think the roaring 20s before prohibition was the equivalent of some modern times of social movements.
I wish I could have three drinks now but I can't. Things have changed in my life, I'm older, my disorder has switched, etc.
I have my favorites around, but I can only have half or maybe one shot. I drink for the taste and maybe the slight buzz but its mostly because
I like certain rare liquors like yes... real absinthe (no you do not go crazy, anyhow) and wishniak, etc.
So maybe its a little pot and kettle I'm talking about, but my tolerance is way down.
=== peace to all
-- tidings
- Jay
Posted by Phillipa on November 22, 2008, at 19:29:28
In reply to Re: why does alcohol work better than benz)yxibow » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on November 22, 2008, at 1:43:04
Waitors in the castles we stayed at served a different type of wine with each dish. So my ll year old had about eight glasses and was fine. Me if meds can affect liver I know mine is fine after years of the beer as have had ultrsounds, blood tests etc. Maybe if just beer again would be fine. That's just how I feel. Love Phillipa
Posted by Vincent_QC on November 25, 2008, at 14:16:43
In reply to Re: why does alcohol work better than benzos for me?, posted by that_guy23 on November 20, 2008, at 6:54:14
> There is nothing that I have experienced yet, that will whipe away SA like a six pack of beer or a couple or 3 stiff drinks, depending on your tolerance. I've been on drugs where its been whiped away, but your just f*ck*d right up, with just the right amount of alcohol, you feel perfect. It is,in my opinion, at just that first part of the buzz, where your just comfortable and happy, you without social anxiety disorder!!
Really? Not sure about that. I never feel "drunk " on a benzo pill...I was very relax at first on Clonazepam, without any inhibitions at all, I was able to do things that I can't write here...and things that I can't imagine doing now on just 20 mg of Diazepam...
Like someone write on this thread, we are all different, and I believe that some people can tolerate more well the alcohol effetcs than other. Like I write to you in another post, I was a heavy user of Clonazepam (8mg) and I was drinking more than 8 to 10 Smirnoff drink bootles (7 % of alcohol in Canada, compare to the USA version that have only 5.5%... I'm very sensitive to drugs or alcohol effect and I think that's in my genitic background...I don't need a lot to be drunk.
You seem to not doing a lot of panic attacks and that's a good thing.
I had my first panic attack on drugs and I had a BIG one in june 2006 on alcohol...It's why I also quit alcohol, because after that night, I always got panic attacks on alcohol...
Alcohol alone? Yeah it's probably more "fun" but maybe less effective for soxial phobia anxiety. You can't take something just to "patch" your mental problem. I mean, alcohol or just Clonazepam alone, that's just a "patch", you need to discover what it's hidding behind that problem. The best way to find the answer is with CTB...I know, that's suck to deal with social anxiety and not being able to have a normal life, just to go shooping or take a coffee or a drink alone at the bar...but that's life...
This is the end of the thread.
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