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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sam K on September 20, 2008, at 1:10:34
My doctor out of nowhere decides that haloperidol would be a good medicine for me.. WRONG. I took it earlier today and I seriously thought I was going to die at first(panic), I went into this paranoid state for a long time, even now a bit. I swear to god I am not exaggerating, I felt like I had been on an acid trip again. I have problems from lsd use in the past.
I have never responded even close to "okay" on an antipsychotic. I always feel SOO strange. Horribly strange.
I took abilify and my social phobia skyrocketed and I became more paranoid, but less in other ways.
I feel like people are behind me and things like that at night.
Sadly, my doctor thinks I have early onset Schizophrenia symtoms. He won't let go of the idea.
I'm just so miserable lately!! I'm in a rough spot! I have no friends besides my family! So SAD! I think about killing myself everyday (although I don't think I'd do it) Theres no solution!!!!!!!!!!!! I would be absolutly heartbroken if I became schizophrenic..
Posted by med_empowered on September 20, 2008, at 2:35:00
In reply to Wow.., posted by sam K on September 20, 2008, at 1:10:34
Hey man. First off, I think you need a new doctor. Haloperidol? Seriously? Dude, check a calendar--its 2008, not 1978...even if you needed an antipsychotic, Haldol wouldn't exactly be the go-to med.
If your doc is so willing to put you through Hell with meds (and believe me, doctors KNOW that people hate Haldol even more than other antipsychotics--they know this a) b/c Haldol is old an one's ever loved it and b) b/c Haldol is simply notorious for being one of the most noxious psychiatric drugs ever created), why would you trust him with you health any longer?
Even more importantly...if your doctor is un-caring (perhaps cruel) enough to put you through trial after trial of various antipsychotics even though you don't respond well to them, have serious side effects, and have obvious psychosocial stressors at the moment, WHY on EARTH would you trust this doctor to come up with a valid diagnosis and worthwhile treatment plan? Clearly, this doctor wants to drug you up on some antipsychotics...I recommend you either get a new doc or flat out quit going to psychiatrists.
I personally disapprove of suicde b/c its a permanent solution to what could very well be a temporary problem. At least you have family...lots of people ("schizophrenic" and "normal" alike) don't even have family members to turn to for comfort and support.
So please, please, calm yourself down, cancel any appointments you have with this doctor, and set about trying to get your life into order.
If you do see a doctor again, you may want to not talk about your lsd usage and focus on more "minor" problems you're having--anxiety, panic, sleep problems, agitation, etc. I think anyone going through what you're going through probably needs a nice benzo for a little while...that's much less hardcore than an antipsychotic, but docs will rush to prescribe an antipsychotic at the first signs of a) "serious" problems or b) past drug use, so WATCH WHAT YOU SAY TO YOUR PSYCHIATRIST. And...I'll say it again: GET A NEW DOCTOR. YOUR CURRENT DOCTOR CANNOT AND WILL NOT HELP YOU LEAD A BETTER LIFE.
Have a better day.
Posted by yxibow on September 20, 2008, at 2:38:37
In reply to Wow.., posted by sam K on September 20, 2008, at 1:10:34
> My doctor out of nowhere decides that haloperidol would be a good medicine for me.. WRONG. I took it earlier today and I seriously thought I was going to die at first(panic), I went into this paranoid state for a long time, even now a bit. I swear to god I am not exaggerating, I felt like I had been on an acid trip again. I have problems from lsd use in the past.
There could be a differential diagosis here -- did you reveal your LSD use to your psychiatrist ? Because if you took it more than for one trip (even that can be a problem), there is a disorder called HPPD (Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder) from past use of hallucinogenic drugs. And in fact, contrary to what one would think, Risperdal, for example can actually aggravate and produce negative problems.> I have never responded even close to "okay" on an antipsychotic. I always feel SOO strange. Horribly strange.
Yes, there are EPS (side effects) which can be very awkward and uncomfortable, and antipsychotics are known for blunting -- making one feel a bit offset from the world or hammered, its hard to explain.
> I took abilify and my social phobia skyrocketed and I became more paranoid, but less in other ways.
> I feel like people are behind me and things like that at night.It could be paranoid depression.
> Sadly, my doctor thinks I have early onset Schizophrenia symtoms. He won't let go of the idea.
> I'm just so miserable lately!! I'm in a rough spot! I have no friends besides my family! So SAD! I think about killing myself everyday (although I don't think I'd do it)
I understand that feeling -- I have friends that have "moved on" in life, although they still know me, but are busy, and my parents are really my only friends and confidants besides a few online people and my caregivers (psychiatrist and psychologist).I also have feelings of suicide -- but you have to think, what would that do to your only friends, your parents -- it would be devastating.
That being said, it is natural to have feelings of suicide, it really is a feeling of wanting to escape one's problems.
But if one repeatedly and emphatically states this ad-nauseam to one's doctor -- one, its doing a disservice to yourself because it means only focusing on what you can't do and the eternal negative, and the other is that if you do have plans, your doctor really is required to do something about it, and antipsychotics and lithium and a few other things are the fastest thing to stop that.
Theres no solution!!!!!!!!!!!! I would be absolutly heartbroken if I became schizophrenic..
There are perfectly functional people out there in the world who are schizophrenic and are taking medication for it, or choose to ignore voices and other aspects of it and eventually can train themselves to be as functional as possible in life.I understand that you would be heartbroken -- I'm feeling caught with an "orphan disorder" that I never dreamed could possibly happen or last this long and have complications from medicine and the like....
...but I can't say anything else other than something that perhaps sounds hollow, that you take every day at a time during this period and not do something destructive to yourself. There could be another diagnosis like HPPD or something else.
And haloperidol is pretty strong for a starting agent these days -- I'm surprised at that, its so generic of an agent to be tried against what is thought to be schizophrenia. But then you have pointed out problems with at least one atypical. What about Zyprexa or Seroquel ?
I hope you do feel better in time and that there are options in life to be more functional regardless of what one may ail from. It is hard to accept a diagnosis at first. And you don't have to.You can get a second opinion from another psychiatrist, discuss what medications you've taken, do reveal your past drug use -- that should be used against you, that should be helpful for another possible diagnosis, and anything else you can think of.
I'm not saying a second psychiatrist necessarily because it takes time to build a relationship with someone you trust.-- best wishes
Jay
Posted by yxibow on September 20, 2008, at 3:06:37
In reply to chill out. read this., posted by med_empowered on September 20, 2008, at 2:35:00
> Hey man. First off, I think you need a new doctor. Haloperidol? Seriously? Dude, check a calendar--its 2008, not 1978...even if you needed an antipsychotic, Haldol wouldn't exactly be the go-to med.
Agreed.> I personally disapprove of suicde b/c its a permanent solution to what could very well be a temporary problem. At least you have family...lots of people ("schizophrenic" and "normal" alike) don't even have family members to turn to for comfort and support.
Also agreed (see lengthy posting)
> So please, please, calm yourself down, cancel any appointments you have with this doctor, and set about trying to get your life into order.
I don't personally believe in the "doctor ditching" posts that I see frequently because one doesn't know exactly what the doctor has seen over how many years or months that one doesn't know about.> If you do see a doctor again, you may want to not talk about your lsd usage
see HPPD --- it actually is IMPORTANT.
and focus on more "minor" problems you're having--anxiety, panic, sleep problems, agitation, etc. I think anyone going through what you're going through probably needs a nice benzo for a little while...that's much less hardcore than an antipsychotic, but docs will rush to prescribe an antipsychotic at the first signs of a) "serious" problems
If one repeatedly mentions suicide to a point, a plan -- it all depends on the doctor, there is responsibility (and sometimes by law) to halt something that may be imminent with certain medications known to act quickly, temporarily.
If its rumination, that's different -- I think a number of us have all ruminated about this in our lives.
or b) past drug use, so WATCH WHAT YOU SAY TO YOUR PSYCHIATRIST.again, if you don't include that, I know people are scared of it, but you are leaving out a very important piece of information. E.g. past meth use for example, could explain a psychosis.
-- tidingsJay
Posted by Nadezda on September 20, 2008, at 10:27:15
In reply to Wow.., posted by sam K on September 20, 2008, at 1:10:34
Sam, I seriously think you do need a new doctor. I have no idea what drug or drugs you might do best on, but I think the trust level between you and this doctor isn't what it needs to be.
Also, Haldol does seem like an odd choice, unless you've tried everything else. It may be that antipsychotics are not for you-- or it may be that you're very afraid of them. If there were a better relationship with a pdoc, you might be able to work with him toward finding a med that you can tolerate and that helps.
But I get the feeling that you haven't gotten the right meds so far, and you need a fresh perspective-- and someone who prescribe appropriately and can help you adjust to whichever meds you need without freaking out.
Nadezda
Posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2008, at 11:07:18
In reply to Re: Wow.., posted by Nadezda on September 20, 2008, at 10:27:15
Sam I'd suggest a new doc also haldol is very strong. You could also have paradoxical reactions to antipsychotics. Phillipa
Posted by sam K on September 20, 2008, at 11:09:27
In reply to chill out. read this., posted by med_empowered on September 20, 2008, at 2:35:00
I agree with you totally, and i appreciate you responding considering I was flipping out. I agree that a new doctor would be nice although me and my doctor are such good friends. He really does care!, but it seems as though he is trying to protect me from pain in the future (he thinks Im going to develop schiz, HES FREAKING ME OUT hehe) I dont think I will ever hear voices or any of that. Im actually pretty normal.. Im just really afraid of going to school and I just cant be around people my age comfortably.
Im just so disapointed in him... it really hurt my feelings. I knew it was going to be horrid yet I took it and felt absolutly the worst Ive ever felt. I took charcol to get the abosorbsion down Asap.
I hope Im not sounding wussy or anything. Ive always been told to "man up" and "pick up my bootstraps" hahaha.
Posted by sam K on September 20, 2008, at 11:23:52
In reply to Re: Wow.. » sam K, posted by yxibow on September 20, 2008, at 2:38:37
Yixbow, I got diagnosed when I was 14 with Hppd and had been treated for it with clonopin and zyprexa. Yea, Klonopin helps but I cant remember that year hardly at all! And I eat like a pig on it.
Obviously at the hospital doctors are going to think Im all f***ed up because Im having derealization/depersonilization. They tried all this crap and it SUCKED.
The one thing I dont understand about what I have is this dream like vision when Im in rooms only lit by flouresent lights.
Maybe I should watch what I say to him.. After all, being one of my best friends, he still is a doctor. I'm such an open person.. I spill everything, whether its weird or not. He actually does also!
He's somewhat of a life coach to me, a mentor. Being such good friends, and then he gives me a medicine I KNEW was going to fail, but let it go, is a big blow to me. I feel betrayed a bit.I still feel drugged up from yesterday.. lazy, dumb, a bit weird. Thank you for your post!! How do you know about hppd? It seems so underground..
Posted by sam K on September 20, 2008, at 11:27:15
In reply to Re: Wow.., posted by Nadezda on September 20, 2008, at 10:27:15
Nadezda, youre right, it is an odd choice, but he is an odd man! Not a bad thing. He suffers from depression also, so that may effect his decision making.
I completely agree with you that I need something that helps and I can tolerate! Thank you so much for the post!
Posted by sam K on September 20, 2008, at 11:33:29
In reply to Re: Wow.., posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2008, at 11:07:18
Thanks for the post, you always respond to my posts! But ya, halodol is strong and I think he gave it to me out of care, docterish care, he just doesnt want me to "get worse". He wants to get me neuroprotection from schiz I think. Thanks Phillpa!
Posted by sam K on September 20, 2008, at 11:33:37
In reply to Re: Wow.., posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2008, at 11:07:18
Thanks for the post, you always respond to my posts! But ya, halodol is strong and I think he gave it to me out of care, docterish care, he just doesnt want me to "get worse". He wants to get me neuroprotection from schiz I think. Thanks Phillpa!
Posted by bleauberry on September 20, 2008, at 17:51:29
In reply to Wow.., posted by sam K on September 20, 2008, at 1:10:34
You need a new doctor. If for no other reason, to get a second opinion. Sometimes we have to embark on doctor shopping to find the right one. It is an mix of trust, skill, availability, and chemistry. It does not sound like the trust, skill, and chemistry things are in place at this moment. Psychiatry is too much of a mystery and too much of a pioneer medicine to be treated by someone who is fixated on one point of view.
As my favorite pdoc said, before he retired, "anything is possible". He was referring to how people respond to medications. He was referring to how medications that would apparently have not much relevance to the diagnosis could sometimes work extremely well, and how ones that seem appropriate could sometimes make things much worse.
Might want to stick with the antidepressant/benzo families and not touch the antipsychotics. If any at all, restrict them to zyprexa/seroquel. If any suspicion of schizophrenia, consider glycine supplementation from a healthfood store and check out previous threads on that topic.
Posted by yxibow on September 20, 2008, at 18:32:18
In reply to Re: Wow.., posted by sam K on September 20, 2008, at 11:23:52
> Yixbow, I got diagnosed when I was 14 with Hppd and had been treated for it with clonopin and zyprexa. Yea, Klonopin helps but I cant remember that year hardly at all! And I eat like a pig on it.
> Obviously at the hospital doctors are going to think Im all f***ed up because Im having derealization/depersonilization. They tried all this crap and it SUCKED.
> The one thing I dont understand about what I have is this dream like vision when Im in rooms only lit by flouresent lights.
> Maybe I should watch what I say to him.. After all, being one of my best friends, he still is a doctor. I'm such an open person.. I spill everything, whether its weird or not. He actually does also!
> He's somewhat of a life coach to me, a mentor. Being such good friends, and then he gives me a medicine I KNEW was going to fail, but let it go, is a big blow to me. I feel betrayed a bit.
>
> I still feel drugged up from yesterday.. lazy, dumb, a bit weird. Thank you for your post!! How do you know about hppd? It seems so underground..Sidebar --
From Sept 11, 2001 until Nov 2001, I was hypervigilant about every aspect of things way way above what my peers felt -- checking my cellphone every 10 minutes to see if we were going to be blown up or something -- I'd rather not get into too much of the past, maudlin, not "carrying on" alot, feeling a bit offput by off the cuff jokes about the incident.---
Because I was reaching for straws in the time period that I developed an "orphan disorder" as it is now characterized (to some regards, some aspects), after Nov 17, 2001. Suddenly I couldn't go up the mountain to my favorite Leonid meteor showers, lights were so bright. Nov 18 I tried going out, everything was purple blotchy as I drove home.
Its never changed except for the use of Seroquel for 6 years, and Zyprexa temporarily and then now the Seroquel doesn't "work" to cover things.
Basically I was experiencing (and still am) a hypersensitivity to what most people experience but their "gate" in their mind shuts it off (afterimages, I could go on with the laundry list, including some auditory things, like clanking and the like).
So I was looking and comparing disorders that I thought could be related -- "Visual Snow" (there is a BBS for it although I havent been on it in a long time, again unknown etiologies though some are migraine which I've never had), HPPD (although I never had a hallucinogen), and various other things, before I took the plunge into taking Seroquel.
I really never dreamed in having what ended up being a somatoform disorder with psychosis NOS (as in not otherwise specified and with much care and effort still stymies medicine).
So while I have never experienced HPPD and wouldn't suggest --- and please don't think I'm laying into you, lots of people have "experimented" and there are lots of other things to spend than the "war on drugs", developmentally, hallucinogens could be more powerful.
Anyhow, that's how I had heard about it, and I agree with bits and pieces of all the arguments above, especially as I did note -- Haldol seems so generic and old school and "Vitamin H" (although you'd be surprised the number of people with significant schizophrenia who actually request it, its not completely tossed aside)
.....I especially wanted to communicate that there is a fear to express drug use (and I can understand at 14 you don't have adult rights) -- to not describe the past, in detail, including past (I'm not saying to tell your psychiatrist that you're currently using heroin -- actually at that point, why would you be going to a doctor ? -- but thats for another thread, addiction medicine) drug use, because without those details, you can be misdiagnosed and given the complete wrong medications, e.g. certain antipsychotics for HPPD, or loading up on stimulants when you went into some psychosis on crystal meth in the past, etc --- these things are much more important than one thinks.
And if your doctor responds demonstrably and lectures you on drug use ad nauseum, then maybe that's not the doctor you want as a partnership, as all relations I believe with a psychiatrist should be. Because there are plenty of psychiatrists who have encountered patients with prior drug use -- often in an attempt to self-medicate themselves.
Its just my belief about not wanting history repeating itself.
But back to the original topic, thats how I know about the word because, well in the end now I'm really all alone with my disorder (which if you look back in the archives I've mentioned several times my "story" -- its lengthy and hard to explain in this time period, but it is definitely anxiety linked, other parts unknown, OC linked, etc.)I have for all intents and purposes, 20/20 vision, its my interpretation of the world and my "psychiatric vision".
-- Jay
Posted by Abby Cunningham on September 23, 2008, at 8:10:18
In reply to Wow.., posted by sam K on September 20, 2008, at 1:10:34
I am not saying YOU need this medication, just that it is in the news again; see medscape article:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/579942_print
Wow. I wish you the best. I would not take it either.
Abby
> My doctor out of nowhere decides that haloperidol would be a good medicine for me.. WRONG. I took it earlier today and I seriously thought I was going to die at first(panic), I went into this paranoid state for a long time, even now a bit. I swear to god I am not exaggerating, I felt like I had been on an acid trip again. I have problems from lsd use in the past.
> I have never responded even close to "okay" on an antipsychotic. I always feel SOO strange. Horribly strange.
> I took abilify and my social phobia skyrocketed and I became more paranoid, but less in other ways.
> I feel like people are behind me and things like that at night.
> Sadly, my doctor thinks I have early onset Schizophrenia symtoms. He won't let go of the idea.
> I'm just so miserable lately!! I'm in a rough spot! I have no friends besides my family! So SAD! I think about killing myself everyday (although I don't think I'd do it) Theres no solution!!!!!!!!!!!! I would be absolutly heartbroken if I became schizophrenic..
This is the end of the thread.
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