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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Quintal on September 7, 2008, at 8:52:12
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 6, 2008, at 22:07:16
>If you are going to a standard psychiatrist they won't give it a second thought but a trained psychopharmocologist might feel differently. Please only take this under a psychiatrist's care. It is safe and effective but its an antipsychotic not a "supplement" even though its sold that way and needs to be medically supervised.
Okay, there are no other psychiatrists available to me and certainly no psychopharmacologists. Thanks for the links.
Q
Posted by iladvocate on September 7, 2008, at 10:16:40
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic » ILADVOCATE, posted by Quintal on September 7, 2008, at 8:52:12
> >If you are going to a standard psychiatrist they won't give it a second thought but a trained psychopharmocologist might feel differently. Please only take this under a psychiatrist's care. It is safe and effective but its an antipsychotic not a "supplement" even though its sold that way and needs to be medically supervised.
>
> Okay, there are no other psychiatrists available to me and certainly no psychopharmacologists. Thanks for the links.
>
> QWell you have to tell your psychiatrist you are going to start it at least. Print out the links and give it to him. You could also sign up for that lecture on new anti-psychotics I gave you the link to and then find out more information there. You can't start it on your own. My psychiatrist would not be happy with me making such a reccomendation. Just say that it is a compound in Phase 2 fda study by Dr. Javitt (its not a natural remedy or supplement no matter how its sold) for antipsychotic purposes, who is the original psychiatrist who studied it and ask if it would be acceptable if you took it. That would be fine but any medical provider has to know you are taking it. That is a standard research study. My psychopharmocologist is a well known member of the American Psychiatric Association. If you get an approval but he says he doesn't know much about it that's fine. I could fill you in on the rest. You just have to have the permission of a psychiatrist. Once he knows its a class of medications in FDA study and he sees the information you gave me, I would think he would be more open minded. That's how it should be done. If he says for some reason you can't take it get back to me. I work as board president of a non profit that does advocacy for people with disabilities and I could write a letter of testimony from my agency saying how its in study and what its done for me. Ask your psychiatrist and get back to me if there are further issues. And please build up slowly to 20 grams, see how its working and then gradually take it up from there. I believe the study uses 40 grams so the person who posted they were taking 60 grams is above what the study reccomends so I wouldn't go that high. Its safe and effective but still an unknown quantity. Best wishes on a good recovery.
Posted by iladvocate on September 7, 2008, at 10:21:15
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by JDx on September 7, 2008, at 4:07:09
> > > Could you say more about how the glycine makes you feel?
> > >
> > > -D/R
> > Well to be honest I recovered enough from schizoaffective disorder that my psychopharmocologist let me write up the results case study fashion and he will incorporate them into his own writings.
> > It has totally eliminated delusions and psychotic thoughts. Negative symptoms (relating to people) are heavily improved. I can understand and relate to people in a "real world" sense and "speak to them on their level". As for cognitive symptoms it increases my ability to write, comprehend and understand things. When you take it it gives you a feeling of energy and mental clarity and increased creative ability but in a real world sense. While I was tirating it if I represented someone for Social Security hearings which was part of my work then I would be better able to get through them and understand how to approach the judges and win. I know not everyone will get this level of recovery but I have and I am explaining it factually without exageration. What is more interesting in taking it what I realize "isn't there", delusions, grandiosity, passive aggressive behavior, self destructive urges that I didn't even realize what they were before the glycine. The difference between glycine and dopaminergic agents is night and day.
> >
> >
> I suggest you try higher dose , to get the full theraputic advantage you need more like 60 grams a day (20X3 times)
> I also suggest to use Glycine powder that doesn't has strong taste, and is Pharmaceutical Grade quality.
> (I use life extension foundation powder)
>
Well I believe that's above the study dosage and I did notice someone who had posted here in 2003 who said they took that dosage and got sick. If its working for you that makes sense though. You are taking it with some supervision of a psychiatrist right? I am trying to find out what's going on with that because if many people are taking it without a psychiatrist's supervision I want to let my psychiatrist know because other psychiatrists should consider supervising it and if its helped people in some regard then using it. If I am the only one its helped out of study that won't mean much as I start to do testimony within the APA (my psychiatrist already let me write to the chairperson from my non profit) but if its helping other people even with some symptoms it shows its something they should put into clinical practice.
Posted by Quintal on September 7, 2008, at 11:34:58
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by iladvocate on September 7, 2008, at 10:16:40
If I start taking glycine I will let my pdoc know. He's aware I take tianeptine and a painkiller that he doesn't prescribe, so I don't think he would be concerned if I started taking glycine. I've thought about bringing in studies on tianeptine, but he doesn't seem bothered about it so long as it works for me. Since I've tried practically everything and directed my own care for so long his attitude is "I don't know what to suggest any more. What do you think will work?".
I have bipolar disorder and had a major manic episode last year. When I came out of hospital I started taking my high dose calcium, magnesium and zinc supplement again and it seemed to have an antimanic effect, so it would be interesting to see if glycine in addition to that has any effect on some of the residual psychotic symptoms. I don't take an antipsychotic because they're fairly mild. During the time when I had no medical care I thought about seeing a naturopathic doctor who might be better informed and more interested in these things, but I live in a rural area and I couldn't find any within a reasonable distance. I don't think I could afford one either. Realistically, any experimentation with natural subsatances is going to be under my own direction. I'm sorry if you find that upsetting, but that's the way it is for me. I hope the introduction of prescription medicines like Deplin will lead to conventional doctors being more aware of the benefits of nutritional medicine, but until it becomes more widely accepted I think a lot of people are going to have to use their own initiative if they use this approach.
I hope my doctor would consider using glycine in a clinical setting, perhaps for some of his more seriously ill patients who aren't responding to conventional antispychotics. I will print off the Javitt essay for him to look at when I see him on Thursday. I don't think my doctor could do any reliable research in my case because there are too many factors that are beyond his control, but it might be of benefit to other people who he treats. He deals mostly with hospital inpatients suffering from psychosis, so this is his area of interest.
Q
Posted by iladvocate on September 7, 2008, at 11:45:49
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic » iladvocate, posted by Quintal on September 7, 2008, at 11:34:58
> If I start taking glycine I will let my pdoc know. He's aware I take tianeptine and a painkiller that he doesn't prescribe, so I don't think he would be concerned if I started taking glycine. I've thought about bringing in studies on tianeptine, but he doesn't seem bothered about it so long as it works for me. Since I've tried practically everything and directed my own care for so long his attitude is "I don't know what to suggest any more. What do you think will work?".
>
> I have bipolar disorder and had a major manic episode last year. When I came out of hospital I started taking my high dose calcium, magnesium and zinc supplement again and it seemed to have an antimanic effect, so it would be interesting to see if glycine in addition to that has any effect on some of the residual psychotic symptoms. I don't take an antipsychotic because they're fairly mild. During the time when I had no medical care I thought about seeing a naturopathic doctor who might be better informed and more interested in these things, but I live in a rural area and I couldn't find any within a reasonable distance. I don't think I could afford one either. Realistically, any experimentation with natural subsatances is going to be under my own direction. I'm sorry if you find that upsetting, but that's the way it is for me. I hope the introduction of prescription medicines like Deplin will lead to conventional doctors being more aware of the benefits of nutritional medicine, but until it becomes more widely accepted I think a lot of people are going to have to use their own initiative if they use this approach.
>
> I hope my doctor would consider using glycine in a clinical setting, perhaps for some of his more seriously ill patients who aren't responding to conventional antispychotics. I will print off the Javitt essay for him to look at when I see him on Thursday. I don't think my doctor could do any reliable research in my case because there are too many factors that are beyond his control, but it might be of benefit to other people who he treats. He deals mostly with hospital inpatients suffering from psychosis, so this is his area of interest.
>
> QYes I understand. I take rhodiola for tardive dyskinesia and discussed that with people. I understand that people take natural remedies. Its just that glycine is not a natural remedy. Its a medication that is an antipsychotic that they may use in conventional medicine in the future or one nearly like it. For example it is supposed to have somewhat of an anti-manic effect so in me without a mood stabilizer I did encounter some depression. I am just curious if you have bipolar why you are on an anti-depressent? An anti depressent could bring on a manic episode. You would be better off on a mood stabilizer such as Lamictal. One that is supposed to be good is the medication Lovaza which is an anti-cholesterol medication in study for mood stabilization as its a synthetic version of fish oil, a known mood stabilizer. Glycine of course is used for control of psychosis and hasn't shown that much of an effect on mood control. What pain killer are you taking? They'd have to rule out an interaction with that. I don't know of any interactions from glycine with known medications that have been found so far except Clozaril which I know you don't take but for anyone reading this they can't be taken together. But if you let your doctor know and he accepts it and you make an informed decision that sounds reasonable.
Posted by Quintal on September 7, 2008, at 12:10:17
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by iladvocate on September 7, 2008, at 11:45:49
I started out on lithium but didn't like the side effects, so I went back to Lamictal in April and it has worked quite well since then. Tianeptine was one of the few antidepressants that worked for me and had hardly any side effects, so I went back to that when I was severely depressed in June. I thought the Lamictal would protect me from mania anyway, but tianeptine seems to have a mood stabilizing effect in itself. Lack of sleep seems to be the biggest risk factor. I take codeine, but my doctor is looking into Suboxone as a substitute and antidepressant. I will find out on Thursday what his verdict is.
Q
Posted by iladvocate on September 7, 2008, at 12:16:12
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic » iladvocate, posted by Quintal on September 7, 2008, at 12:10:17
> I started out on lithium but didn't like the side effects, so I went back to Lamictal in April and it has worked quite well since then. Tianeptine was one of the few antidepressants that worked for me and had hardly any side effects, so I went back to that when I was severely depressed in June. I thought the Lamictal would protect me from mania anyway, but tianeptine seems to have a mood stabilizing effect in itself. Lack of sleep seems to be the biggest risk factor. I take codeine, but my doctor is looking into Suboxone as a substitute and antidepressant. I will find out on Thursday what his verdict is.
>
> QWell just have him check for drug interactions. My psychiatrist when he first tried me on glycine was even able to call it up on his Palmpilot. If not a psychiatrist could do a standard search on a computer that has information that would not be available to a consumer, only to a doctor. Once he ruled that out then it would be safe to go ahead. Let me know what he says.
Posted by Quintal on September 7, 2008, at 12:45:47
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by iladvocate on September 7, 2008, at 12:16:12
My doctor doesn't have any information on tianeptine. The hospital pharmacist might be able find out for him, but he'd have to call and ask. I brought some melatonin into hospital with me and she checked that it was safe to take with the other medication I was on.
Q
Posted by iladvocate on September 7, 2008, at 13:09:48
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic » iladvocate, posted by Quintal on September 7, 2008, at 12:45:47
> My doctor doesn't have any information on tianeptine. The hospital pharmacist might be able find out for him, but he'd have to call and ask. I brought some melatonin into hospital with me and she checked that it was safe to take with the other medication I was on.
>
> QThat makes sense. As for Melatonin the prescription medication Rozerem was developed from that and has the same active ingredients and is a sleeping pill that can be taken every day without concern. If the pharmacist can do an online search and comprehensive check that's a start. Just remember you are starting a new class of antipsychotic in government study even if its outside of that not just a supplement and take it that seriously in that light and regardless of whether your psychiatrist is prescribing it do let him know what's going on as with side effects and especially any positive benefits you may obtain.
Posted by desolationrower on September 7, 2008, at 19:40:44
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by iladvocate on September 7, 2008, at 12:16:12
There really isn't some hidden stash of doctor-only information, unless you are talking about drug rep spiels.
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 7, 2008, at 20:40:55
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by desolationrower on September 7, 2008, at 19:40:44
> There really isn't some hidden stash of doctor-only information, unless you are talking about drug rep spiels.
No but they could figure out drug drug interactions. I know because my psychiatrist did on his palm pilot. That includes glycine. For example the fact that it could interact with Clozaril is something I know only because my psychiatrist told me. My point in identifying these medications in development is to get the word to the public before the pharmaceutical industry uses them for promotional purposes.
Posted by desolationrower on September 7, 2008, at 21:06:23
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 7, 2008, at 20:40:55
Right, but its not his james bond palm pilot, its that there have been studies that show they don't play well together.
-D/R
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 7, 2008, at 21:31:28
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by desolationrower on September 7, 2008, at 21:06:23
> Right, but its not his james bond palm pilot, its that there have been studies that show they don't play well together.
> -D/RSeriously though they can look up any information online and usually in a palm pilot. They have whatever they need down there.
Posted by Zyprexa on September 7, 2008, at 23:34:33
In reply to Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 6, 2008, at 13:59:22
I've been taking glycine for 1.5 years now. It has never been able to replace the zyprexa.
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 0:07:03
In reply to Re: Glycine not As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by Zyprexa on September 7, 2008, at 23:34:33
> I've been taking glycine for 1.5 years now. It has never been able to replace the zyprexa.
Yes well that's what the study found. Its generally an adjunct. Be careful as with all of the atypicals Zyprexa is the most likely to cause diabetes. If you start to have weight gain or a cholesterol increase have your psychiatrist change it. Of course if you are doing okay leave it. Abilify is the least risk for diabetes but it still can cause it but they all have a risk of tardive conditions of course. I would think its helping as a supplement though. How? In what way?
Posted by Zyprexa on September 8, 2008, at 0:14:21
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 6, 2008, at 22:07:16
I find that taking Glycine is calming and stops worrying. Its not activating. I take it one heaping teaspon at a time with water or coffee, also take it every 2-3 hours as the half life is 2 hours. Often taking it about 4 times a day. I don't find it very effective, just mildly.
The best place I've found to buy it is LuckyVitamin.com, Now foods, one pound, $9. Its also called L-glycine. As my doctor told me its ok if it has the "L" in front of it. Other than that I don't know why.
I did reaseach on it and found that it affects the Canabinoid recepters in the brain. The same thing that the good portion of POT affects. The part that is antipsychotic. The THC part though is psychotic.
I did notice that it made me a little forgetfull when I started it.
Posted by Zyprexa on September 8, 2008, at 0:32:39
In reply to Re: Glycine not As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 0:07:03
I have diabetes from zyprexa, I take Metformin for it. Weight is not much of a problem, cholesterol is fine. There is no way I would go off the zyprexa, its the best med I ever took!
Abilify gave me low blood sugars. I had to eat and eat to keep my sugar high enough.
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 0:55:12
In reply to Re: Glycine Antipsychotic, posted by Zyprexa on September 8, 2008, at 0:14:21
> I find that taking Glycine is calming and stops worrying. Its not activating. I take it one heaping teaspon at a time with water or coffee, also take it every 2-3 hours as the half life is 2 hours. Often taking it about 4 times a day. I don't find it very effective, just mildly.
>
> The best place I've found to buy it is LuckyVitamin.com, Now foods, one pound, $9. Its also called L-glycine. As my doctor told me its ok if it has the "L" in front of it. Other than that I don't know why.
>
> I did reaseach on it and found that it affects the Canabinoid recepters in the brain. The same thing that the good portion of POT affects. The part that is antipsychotic. The THC part though is psychotic.
>
> I did notice that it made me a little forgetfull when I started it.So in other words you find it has a short half life too? The same as I found. That's important because the official study gives it once a day.
Probably better to take it directly with water not coffee as it can be mixed into water and then taken in pure form. Anything else might make it work less. And caffeine underminds psychiatric medications of many kinds. Something to think about. I don't believe it affects THC receptors. The glutamate antagonists are officially called the NMDA receptor modulators. They work on a different area of the brain. Look at the link to Dr. Javitt's study for more information. That should tell you. I did summarize it for Wikipedia but that's in brief. And yes the glutamate antagonists are being studied for anxiety too so to get an anti-anxiety effect is not surprising.
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 0:59:07
In reply to Re: Glycine not As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by Zyprexa on September 8, 2008, at 0:32:39
> I have diabetes from zyprexa, I take Metformin for it. Weight is not much of a problem, cholesterol is fine. There is no way I would go off the zyprexa, its the best med I ever took!
>
> Abilify gave me low blood sugars. I had to eat and eat to keep my sugar high enough.
I would never go against an informed consumers decision but just be careful as many people on Zyprexa did develop insulin dependent diabetes. And it has a strong mood stabilization effect so it was used much until it was found that the drug company Eli Lilly gave fraudelent results to psychiatrists about the high rate of diabetes that it could create. Now many psychiatrists are not using it as much. However, it has been shown to highly effective. Just be careful with your diet and blood sugar.
Posted by desolationrower on September 8, 2008, at 1:24:45
In reply to Re: Glycine not As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 0:59:07
BTW, glycine is not a glutamate antagonist, it is a co-agonist.
-D/R
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 1:49:16
In reply to Re: Glycine not As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by desolationrower on September 8, 2008, at 1:24:45
> BTW, glycine is not a glutamate antagonist, it is a co-agonist.
> -D/R
Yes I try to keep the terminology accurate. My psychiatrist had stated to refer to them as "NMDA receptor modulators". I just wasn't sure people would understand that term but that is the correct one. Thanks for letting me know.
Posted by Jamie R on September 8, 2008, at 5:32:57
In reply to Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 6, 2008, at 13:59:22
Grape seed extract is a good co-agonist to glycine.
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 5:44:13
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by Jamie R on September 8, 2008, at 5:32:57
> Grape seed extract is a good co-agonist to glycine.
I'd need more information on that and why.
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 8, 2008, at 7:40:48
In reply to Re: Glycine Antipsychotic, posted by Zyprexa on September 8, 2008, at 0:14:21
> The best place I've found to buy it is LuckyVitamin.com, Now foods, one pound, $9. Its also called L-glycine. As my doctor told me its ok if it has the "L" in front of it. Other than that I don't know why.
Glycine is unique among the amino acids in its not being chiral. Therefore, the D-/L- designation is not applied to it. Glycine is officially just glycine. For all the other amino acids, the L- enantiomer is the natural one.
Lar
Posted by Zyprexa on September 8, 2008, at 16:52:40
In reply to Re: Glycine Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 0:55:12
I didn't say it affected THC, I said it affects cannibanoid recepters. I also find it workes better with coffee.
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