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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by darkhorse on June 1, 2005, at 8:03:44
In reply to Hi darkhorse! Sdb needs your benzo expertise! » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on May 31, 2005, at 17:00:49
> PS. I just discovered that there's a Lexotan CR, I never knew that.....
>
> Yours,
> Ed.Hi ED :
I never heared of this before!
Do you have more info? like where is it available and what is its half-life...etc
DH
Posted by darkhorse on June 1, 2005, at 8:45:08
In reply to Thienodiazepines » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on May 31, 2005, at 17:27:42
Hi ED :
Yes I tried Brotizolam.It is a good hypnotic with around 5 hours duration.I liked it more than Zolpidem,Zopiclone and triazolam.
I guess brotizolam,along with lormetazepam were the best hynotics,but this is only relative.Anyway,Ido not like to take hypnotics,because what I have is more of daytime anxiety and not insomnia, that is where bromazepam comes in handy: to take early morning and avoid before bedtime so one can sleep relatively "naturally"
Sorry for the rambling!!Best wishes,
DH
Posted by darkhorse on June 1, 2005, at 9:50:00
In reply to prazepam,bromazepam to darkhorse, ed_uk, everybod, posted by sdb on May 27, 2005, at 12:13:01
> Hi Sdb
> -Did you also remark a long time of onset of the prazepem?Yes.
> -How would you rate bromazepam/prazepam/clonazepam
> related to sexual and cognitive (memorizing things) abilities?I do not think I had sexual probs with BZ. Only all 6 SSRI's + Clomipramine + Venlafaxine .
I think Pra & Broma are equal in terms of cognition.Clonazepam was worse,but maybe because everytime I tried it with different doses it had an unbearable lethargic,depressed blue feelings.>
> I have never taken non reversibel MAO's (poorly, no more available in my country). This could be an option after worst experiences and memorized OCD because of the SSRI's.I have tried Tranylcypromine up to 60mg.
My reaction to it was strange.I felt over self-confident,was rude and nasty.In addition I had a big appetite and gained weight.
I felt so relieved when I stopped.
But this is only my trial.Best wishes
Darkhorse.
Posted by sdb on June 1, 2005, at 14:51:54
In reply to Re: prazepam,bromazepam to darkhorse, ed_uk, everybod » sdb, posted by darkhorse on June 1, 2005, at 9:50:00
Hi all!
Thank you darkhorse for your response. I like the prazepam it seems after some days (long onset) to be a stabilizing, anxiolytic, antidepressant benzodiazepine. In relation to anxiety clonazepam is definately stronger, you can use it as needed (3h) but has more sideeffects. With prazepam you feel much more normal.
There was a compared study prazepam to clomipramine, I have read the article and it seems to be an appropriate study expect with some to less explanations to the measurements. In Hars, Madrs etc. were only minor differences:
Pharmacopsychiatry. 1991 Sep;24(5):175-9. Related Articles, Links
Compared efficacy of prazepam and clomipramine in major depression with anxiety: a multicenter controlled study.Lemoine P, Boulenger JP, Caillard V, Tanne N, Bonnet D.
Unite Clinique de Psychiatrie Biologique, C.H.S. Le Vinatier, Lyon Bron, France.
The efficacy of antidepressants is well established in major depressions, especially those with melancholic features. However, some anxiolytics also appear to have antidepressant properties at least for outpatients. 118 outpatients (25 males, 93 females, age: 18-60) with major depression according to DSM-III criteria, neither melancholic nor suicidal, reaching at least 27 on Montgomery and Asberg depression rating scale (MADRS) and 19 on Hamilton anxiety rating scale (HARS) accepted to participate this double blind study carried out by 15 G.P.s coordinated by 3 psychiatrists. After a one week placebo wash-out-single-blind period, they were randomly, double blind, assigned to one of the two following groups: PR treated with prazepam (30-60 mg), a benzodiazepine anxiolytic or CL treated clomipramine, an imipramine antidepressant (75-150 mg). Patients were evaluated at days 0, 7, 14, and 28, using MADRS, HARS, Clinical Global Impression and Hopkins symptoms check list 58. In addition, G.P.s had to meet monthly for a case discussion group. Results: groups were comparable at day 0. A highly significant improvement of MADRS and HARS scores (p less than 0.001) was observed in the total population. For the completer population evolution was also significantly positive in all the parameters studied but, considering MADRS and HSCL scores, a difference in favor of CL is observed.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)
Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Multicenter Study
Randomized Controlled TrialPMID: 1775523 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posted by sdb on June 1, 2005, at 15:25:22
In reply to Prazepam,bromazepam to d-horse, ed_uk everybod, posted by sdb on June 1, 2005, at 14:51:54
Clonzepam gave stabilizing, strong anti-anxiety effects and a clear point of efficacy (3). You could take it as needed (prazepam you cant). Poorly it gave total sexual disfunction (should diminish by time according to many studies but my personal experience was only nine days) and a lethargic feeling. But overall I think the clonazepam is very good for suffering above all anxious, panic people.
I personally have only as needed (it was very effective) and nine days experience so I dont know if bad sideeffects could be weaker by time.
I can not believe that prazepam is no more sold in most countries. It could be a very useful
drug.
Posted by ed_uk on June 1, 2005, at 16:28:55
In reply to Re: Hi darkhorse! Sdb needs your benzo expertise! » ed_uk, posted by darkhorse on June 1, 2005, at 8:03:44
Hi DH,
>Lexotan CR
I think it's available in Brazil- I could be wrong though.
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on June 1, 2005, at 16:32:29
In reply to Re: prazepam,bromazepam to darkhorse, ed_uk, everybod » sdb, posted by darkhorse on June 1, 2005, at 9:50:00
Hi DH!
>I have tried Tranylcypromine up to 60mg.
My reaction to it was strange.I felt over self-confident,was rude and nasty.In addition I had a big appetite and gained weight.Perhaps the dose was much too high for you? I wonder whether it would have worked well for you at a really low dose. I'm starting Parnate soon, I hope it doesn't make me nasty!
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by sdb on June 2, 2005, at 1:00:39
In reply to Re: prazepam,bromazepam to darkhorse, ed_uk, everybod » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on June 1, 2005, at 16:32:29
Hi ed
How much tranylcipromine daily did you take?
Wish you all the best for the exams!
I also have to work sometimes more sometimes less, so dont be angry if I will not immediately response to questions. But I surely come back at least one ore two times a week.
kind regards
sdb
Posted by ed_uk on June 2, 2005, at 5:05:00
In reply to Re: prazepam,bromazepam to darkhorse, ed_uk, everybod, posted by sdb on June 2, 2005, at 1:00:39
Hi sdb!
I haven't started tranylcypromine yet.
>I also have to work sometimes more sometimes less, so dont be angry if I will not immediately response to questions.
I won't be :-)
>Wish you all the best for the exams!
Thank you :-)
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on June 2, 2005, at 5:28:41
In reply to Re: prazepam,bromazepam to darkhorse, ed_uk, everybod » sdb, posted by darkhorse on June 1, 2005, at 9:50:00
Hi DH!
Have you ever tried etizolam???
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by darkhorse on June 2, 2005, at 6:09:02
In reply to Re: prazepam,bromazepam to darkhorse, ed_uk, everybod » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on June 2, 2005, at 5:28:41
> HiED
>
> Have you ever tried etizolam???No.Estazolam,yes.but I think that is a different one.
>
> Kind regards,
>DH
Posted by darkhorse on June 2, 2005, at 6:10:59
In reply to Re: Prazepam,bromazepam / clonazepam, posted by sdb on June 1, 2005, at 15:25:22
> I can not believe that prazepam is no more sold in most countries. It could be a very useful
> drug.I could not agree more !
Darkhorse
Posted by ed_uk on June 2, 2005, at 6:50:37
In reply to Re: prazepam,bromazepam to darkhorse, ed_uk, everybod, posted by darkhorse on June 2, 2005, at 6:09:02
Hi DH!
You're right, it's a different one :-) I can't believe I've found a benzo that you haven't tried LOL!!!
Yours,
Ed.PS. Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions :-)
Posted by darkhorse on June 3, 2005, at 7:30:04
In reply to Re: Prazepam,bromazepam / clonazepam, posted by sdb on June 1, 2005, at 15:25:22
>> I can not believe that prazepam is no more sold in most countries. It could be a very useful
> drug.Hi Sdb& Ed
I think the closest BZ to Prazepam in its effect for me was chlordiazepoxide,which is more common.IMO I think that when it comes to BZ, Prazepam,Chlordiazepoxide and Bromazepam are way underrated,and can easily compete with the more famous ones such as Valium and Xanax.
Regards,
Darkhorse
Posted by darkhorse on June 3, 2005, at 8:17:26
In reply to Re: prazepam,bromazepam to darkhorse, ed_uk, everybod » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on June 1, 2005, at 16:32:29
> Hi ED!
>
> >I have tried Tranylcypromine up to 60mg.
> My reaction to it was strange.I felt over self-confident,was rude and nasty.In addition I had a big appetite and gained weight.
>
> Perhaps the dose was much too high for you? I wonder whether it would have worked well for you at a really low dose. I'm starting Parnate soon, I hope it doesn't make me nasty!Perhaps,but the lower doses were like placebo,but still maybe if I could have waited longer on a 20-30mg a day,it might have worked.
Anyhow, I did not know that you are stopping Citalopram,and starting Parnate.
May I ask why you want to stop Citalopram.
I hope the best with Parnate.
I think it is one of those oldies but goodies AD's,and like Nardil,tofranil and Tryptizol,proved their worth before the age of the super high-tech SSRIs!!Best wishes,
Darkhorse.
Posted by ed_uk on June 3, 2005, at 8:46:56
In reply to Re: prazepam,bromazepam to darkhorse, ed_uk, everybod » ed_uk, posted by darkhorse on June 3, 2005, at 8:17:26
Hi DH!
I had to stop citalopram because it was making me tooooo drowsy. I also stopped lofepramine.
Yours,
Ed.
Posted by KarenRB53 on October 18, 2007, at 16:36:42
In reply to Re: prazepam,bromazepam to darkhorse, ed_uk, everybod » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on June 3, 2005, at 8:46:56
Did anybody find that bromazepam made them dizzy and lightheaded? I've only taken it for 2 days and I've had to take gravol because I feel queasy and my head feels strange, kind of swimmy feeling.
I can't take clonazepam because it actually makes me more depressed and xanax makes me feel very strange. Ativan doesn't cause any problems but doctor wanted me on a benzo that stays in system longer.
Posted by sdb on October 19, 2007, at 14:10:04
In reply to Re: prazepam,bromazepam to darkhorse, ed_uk, everybod, posted by KarenRB53 on October 18, 2007, at 16:36:42
> Did anybody find that bromazepam made them dizzy and lightheaded? I've only taken it for 2 days and I've had to take gravol because I feel queasy and my head feels strange, kind of swimmy feeling.
> I can't take clonazepam because it actually makes me more depressed and xanax makes me feel very strange. Ativan doesn't cause any problems but doctor wanted me on a benzo that stays in system longer.
>
>When I took one 6mg pill of bromazepam it did almost nothing. Interestingly some people say it's
their best benzo ever. Clonazepam is depressing for many people according to statements in the babble forum. Prazepam is another non-sedating (not so much sedating) benzo similar like Librium but still different. I never took benzos for a longer time thus my experience is limited. Compared to other substances benzos are very benign concerning side-effects. I don't think benzos do make somebody depended physically (in spite that there is some hypothesis in literature) but mentally yes, some people won't give it away because of mental relieve.warm regards
sdb
Posted by cloudnine on October 20, 2007, at 6:32:24
In reply to Re: prazepam,bromazepam to darkhorse, ed_uk, everybod, posted by KarenRB53 on October 18, 2007, at 16:36:42
> Did anybody find that bromazepam made them dizzy and lightheaded? I've only taken it for 2 days and I've had to take gravol because I feel queasy and my head feels strange, kind of swimmy feeling.
> I can't take clonazepam because it actually makes me more depressed and xanax makes me feel very strange. Ativan doesn't cause any problems but doctor wanted me on a benzo that stays in system longer.
>
>How much did you take 1.5 or 3 or 6 mg.
It is better to take your first few doses at night,since Bromazepam is one of the least sedating Benzo and it doesn't produce the sometimes attractive feeling of sedation.
However,aafter few doses you won't feel dizziness,but I believe it is the best Benzo for daytime anxiety.Also it is the opposite of Clonazepam,instead of producing depression and apathy, it gives a mild antidepressant effect and mood elevation (more like xanax but without the sedation and the short half life)
Unfortunatly because it is not marketed in the USA it is not mentioned in the litretarue,even though it is one of the most prescribed Benzos in Europe the Middle East and Asia.
I'm sure if it is now marketed in the USA, they will hail it as the "newest" and best Benzo since Xanax a nd Valium and will quicly become a best selling benzo...but what can you say, Europeans ( and the rest of the world ) are terrible in propaganda compared to USA!!!
Best of luck
Posted by KarenRB53 on October 20, 2007, at 8:47:27
In reply to Re: prazepam,bromazepam to darkhorse, ed_uk, everybod, posted by cloudnine on October 20, 2007, at 6:32:24
> > Did anybody find that bromazepam made them dizzy and lightheaded? I've only taken it for 2 days and I've had to take gravol because I feel queasy and my head feels strange, kind of swimmy feeling.
> > I can't take clonazepam because it actually makes me more depressed and xanax makes me feel very strange. Ativan doesn't cause any problems but doctor wanted me on a benzo that stays in system longer.
> >
> >
>
> How much did you take 1.5 or 3 or 6 mg.
> It is better to take your first few doses at night,since Bromazepam is one of the least sedating Benzo and it doesn't produce the sometimes attractive feeling of sedation.
> However,aafter few doses you won't feel dizziness,but I believe it is the best Benzo for daytime anxiety.Also it is the opposite of Clonazepam,instead of producing depression and apathy, it gives a mild antidepressant effect and mood elevation (more like xanax but without the sedation and the short half life)
> Unfortunatly because it is not marketed in the USA it is not mentioned in the litretarue,even though it is one of the most prescribed Benzos in Europe the Middle East and Asia.
> I'm sure if it is now marketed in the USA, they will hail it as the "newest" and best Benzo since Xanax a nd Valium and will quicly become a best selling benzo...but what can you say, Europeans ( and the rest of the world ) are terrible in propaganda compared to USA!!!
> Best of luckMaybe thats what it is...I'm used to the sedative feeling from ativan but the bromazepam actually has a stimulating effect and because I'm excitable anyway, it kind of makes me feel hyper. My doctor said to start slow, 1.5 mg during the day and 3 mg at night. If its stronger or more potent than ativan maybe I could start with smaller dose. Would a smaller dose help at all?
Thanks for the advice.
>
Posted by amigan on October 20, 2007, at 21:45:53
In reply to Re: Has somebody ever taken prazepam (Centrax)? » sdb, posted by darkhorse on May 4, 2005, at 9:39:26
I haven't tried many benzos, but from the ones that i have tried, prazepam was the weakest...
Now, i read in this thread that it has an extremely long onset. I wasn't informed about that when i was taking it. You think that this is why i considered it weak? Because i was expecting it to act in 1-2 hours? Perhaps..
Posted by sdb on October 22, 2007, at 0:31:38
In reply to Re: Has somebody ever taken prazepam (Centrax)?, posted by amigan on October 20, 2007, at 21:45:53
> I haven't tried many benzos, but from the ones that i have tried, prazepam was the weakest...
> Now, i read in this thread that it has an extremely long onset. I wasn't informed about that when i was taking it. You think that this is why i considered it weak? Because i was expecting it to act in 1-2 hours? Perhaps..
>prazepam is not a weak benzo but the pills are in a low dosage. Librium is not a weak benzo too you could easily produce 50mg librium pills instead of 25mg librium pills.
prazepam won't kick in immediately or give you instant relieve compared to a benzo like xanax.
It can last some days until the effect is there.
prazepam has a slow resorption, the max. concentration of the metabolites will be in approx. 2-3 hours. prazepam has slight antidepressant action (who knows why?).warm regards
sdb
Compared efficacy of prazepam and clomipramine in major depression with anxiety: a multicenter controlled study.
Lemoine P, Boulenger JP, Caillard V, Tanne N, Bonnet D.Unité Clinique de Psychiatrie Biologique, C.H.S. Le Vinatier, Lyon Bron, France.
The efficacy of antidepressants is well established in major depressions, especially those with melancholic features. However, some anxiolytics also appear to have antidepressant properties at least for outpatients. 118 outpatients (25 males, 93 females, age: 18-60) with major depression according to DSM-III criteria, neither melancholic nor suicidal, reaching at least 27 on Montgomery and Asberg depression rating scale (MADRS) and 19 on Hamilton anxiety rating scale (HARS) accepted to participate this double blind study carried out by 15 G.P.s coordinated by 3 psychiatrists. After a one week placebo wash-out-single-blind period, they were randomly, double blind, assigned to one of the two following groups: PR treated with prazepam (30-60 mg), a benzodiazepine anxiolytic or CL treated clomipramine, an imipramine antidepressant (75-150 mg). Patients were evaluated at days 0, 7, 14, and 28, using MADRS, HARS, Clinical Global Impression and Hopkins symptoms check list 58. In addition, G.P.s had to meet monthly for a case discussion group. Results: groups were comparable at day 0. A highly significant improvement of MADRS and HARS scores (p less than 0.001) was observed in the total population. For the completer population evolution was also significantly positive in all the parameters studied but, considering MADRS and HSCL scores, a difference in favor of CL is observed.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)
PMID: 1775523 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posted by cloudnine on October 22, 2007, at 12:47:47
In reply to Re: Has somebody ever taken prazepam (Centrax)?, posted by sdb on October 22, 2007, at 0:31:38
I tried Prazepam.It is te slowest acting Benzo I've tried.It takes 6-7 hours to start feel its effect.It is less sdating than Valium,RivotrilAtivan & Xanax.It is close to Librium,but more sedating than Bromazeam which takes 3 hours to feel its effect.
I believe 10mg Prazepam equals 5mg Diazepam which equals 3-4 mg Bromazepam.Unlike Bromazepam,but like Diazepam,Clorazepate,and Chlordiaxepoxide,Prazepam has a very long active metabolite,which tend to accumelate if taken chronically.
Posted by KarenRB53 on August 13, 2008, at 13:44:50
In reply to Re: prazepam,bromazepam to darkhorse, ed_uk, everybod, posted by cloudnine on October 20, 2007, at 6:32:24
> > Did anybody find that bromazepam made them dizzy and lightheaded? I've only taken it for 2 days and I've had to take gravol because I feel queasy and my head feels strange, kind of swimmy feeling.
> > I can't take clonazepam because it actually makes me more depressed and xanax makes me feel very strange. Ativan doesn't cause any problems but doctor wanted me on a benzo that stays in system longer.
> >
> >
>
> How much did you take 1.5 or 3 or 6 mg.
> It is better to take your first few doses at night,since Bromazepam is one of the least sedating Benzo and it doesn't produce the sometimes attractive feeling of sedation.
> However,aafter few doses you won't feel dizziness,but I believe it is the best Benzo for daytime anxiety.Also it is the opposite of Clonazepam,instead of producing depression and apathy, it gives a mild antidepressant effect and mood elevation (more like xanax but without the sedation and the short half life)
> Unfortunatly because it is not marketed in the USA it is not mentioned in the litretarue,even though it is one of the most prescribed Benzos in Europe the Middle East and Asia.
> I'm sure if it is now marketed in the USA, they will hail it as the "newest" and best Benzo since Xanax a nd Valium and will quicly become a best selling benzo...but what can you say, Europeans ( and the rest of the world ) are terrible in propaganda compared to USA!!!
> Best of luck
>I know this is an old post but hopefully you will see it. I generally take Ativian at night (it helps with sleep and anxiety at night) but as I said, I find ativan too sedating during the day. Could I use the bromazepam during the day and ativan at night? Can they be used together like that?
Karen
Posted by KarenRB53 on August 13, 2008, at 13:45:17
In reply to Re: prazepam,bromazepam to darkhorse, ed_uk, everybod, posted by cloudnine on October 20, 2007, at 6:32:24
> > Did anybody find that bromazepam made them dizzy and lightheaded? I've only taken it for 2 days and I've had to take gravol because I feel queasy and my head feels strange, kind of swimmy feeling.
> > I can't take clonazepam because it actually makes me more depressed and xanax makes me feel very strange. Ativan doesn't cause any problems but doctor wanted me on a benzo that stays in system longer.
> >
> >
>
> How much did you take 1.5 or 3 or 6 mg.
> It is better to take your first few doses at night,since Bromazepam is one of the least sedating Benzo and it doesn't produce the sometimes attractive feeling of sedation.
> However,aafter few doses you won't feel dizziness,but I believe it is the best Benzo for daytime anxiety.Also it is the opposite of Clonazepam,instead of producing depression and apathy, it gives a mild antidepressant effect and mood elevation (more like xanax but without the sedation and the short half life)
> Unfortunatly because it is not marketed in the USA it is not mentioned in the litretarue,even though it is one of the most prescribed Benzos in Europe the Middle East and Asia.
> I'm sure if it is now marketed in the USA, they will hail it as the "newest" and best Benzo since Xanax a nd Valium and will quicly become a best selling benzo...but what can you say, Europeans ( and the rest of the world ) are terrible in propaganda compared to USA!!!
> Best of luck
>I know this is an old post but hopefully you will see it. I generally take Ativian at night (it helps with sleep and anxiety at night) but as I said, I find ativan too sedating during the day. Could I use the bromazepam during the day and ativan at night? Can they be used together like that?
Karen
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