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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Vik07 on August 11, 2008, at 12:05:21
Hello everyone! I am new here, and English is not exactly my first language, so I hope you excuse my wrong spellings and bad language :)
Was going to start Nardil today, but since I quit Paroxetin, I feel so much better.
I care about things, do not oversleep and my overall focus is better. And I am not depressed at all. :) My anxiety is also better, but it is still there. Since Nardil affects serotonin, I am hesitant to start it, as I feel so much better since I quit Paroxetin.
Started CBT today and I do belive it will be very helpful, but I think I need is someting that affects GABA. Is there any drug that affects GABA alone and do not build up tolerance as Xanax or Klonopin for example? (Something I could take every day) Have to consult my doc as I was supposed to start taking Nardil today, and maybe ask to get something else. But what? Lyrica?
Posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2008, at 12:52:20
In reply to Nardil or not, posted by Vik07 on August 11, 2008, at 12:05:21
Welcome to babble. You're English is fine. Can you try CBT and see if that works alone for you first? Could. But other than benzos I don't know and hope others answer your question. If I might ask why did you stop the other and want to go on a strong MAOI if not depressed? Phillipa
Posted by Vik07 on August 11, 2008, at 13:08:11
In reply to Re: Nardil or not » Vik07, posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2008, at 12:52:20
> Welcome to babble. You're English is fine. Can you try CBT and see if that works alone for you first? Could. But other than benzos I don't know and hope others answer your question. If I might ask why did you stop the other and want to go on a strong MAOI if not depressed? Phillipa
Thank you for the warm welcome, Philipa :) Yes, I suppose I could, but I am just scared that CBT not will be enough. I have to get back to work as soon as possible. I stopped Paroxetin because it did not help with my social anxiety problem, on the contrary - I got general anxiety from it. I also was not able to focus, slept too much, was apathetic.
As doctors here will not prescribe benzos for too long, they swear to SSRI's (do not work for me), I figured that the doc more likely would give me Nardil than benzos for long term treatment. And no problem getting Nardil.
The only reason I would try Nardil now I think is that because it affects GABA and people say it's good for SA. On the other hand it boosts serotonin in the brain, which I am convinced is not what I need at all. I am afraid of getting the same symptoms I got from Paroxetine/Paxil.
Posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2008, at 13:19:06
In reply to Re: Nardil or not, posted by Vik07 on August 11, 2008, at 13:08:11
Wow it's hard to get nardil here may I ask what country you're in? SSRI's never helped my anxiety always needed a benzo others do great on other meds so wait and soon hopefully great suggestions will come in. Phillipa and no thanks needed.
Posted by Vik07 on August 11, 2008, at 14:17:09
In reply to Re: Nardil or not » Vik07, posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2008, at 13:19:06
> Wow it's hard to get nardil here may I ask what country you're in? SSRI's never helped my anxiety always needed a benzo others do great on other meds so wait and soon hopefully great suggestions will come in. Phillipa and no thanks needed.
I am in Norway, Phillipa. The MD had to apply for Nardil for me, but no problem getting it really. I had to pay when I collected them, but the Norwegian health care system refunded the money. People here are lucky because they don't need health insurance. All costs related to medical consultations, medications, therapy etc. that exceed about US $ 350 a year is paid for by the Norwegian healtcare system. Regarding Nardil it took under a month from the application was sent, until I could pick up my Nardil at the local drug store. Nardil is withdrawn from the Norwegian market because of the possible, serious side effects and has to be imported from abroad. Sorry to hear that SSRI's did not help you either, but as you say, benzo can do the trick if you have a doctor willing to prescribe it and avoid building up to much tolerance.
Posted by dcruik518 on August 11, 2008, at 14:21:06
In reply to Re: Nardil or not, posted by Vik07 on August 11, 2008, at 14:17:09
Nardil raises brain GABA levels as well as all three of the major neurotransmitters. It generally works better than the SSRI's although there are more side effects, especially weight gain.
As for benzos, it's generally recommended that you take them regularly every day, as opposed to on an as needed basis. People are more likely to get addicted when taking on an "as needed" basis. It leads to pill popping whenever you feel any stress.
~Dwight
Posted by Vik07 on August 11, 2008, at 14:49:31
In reply to Re: Nardil or not, posted by dcruik518 on August 11, 2008, at 14:21:06
> Nardil raises brain GABA levels as well as all three of the major neurotransmitters. It generally works better than the SSRI's although there are more side effects, especially weight gain.
> As for benzos, it's generally recommended that you take them regularly every day, as opposed to on an as needed basis. People are more likely to get addicted when taking on an "as needed" basis. It leads to pill popping whenever you feel any stress.
>
> ~Dwight
Hello Dwight, and thanks for the input :)
I think I can try to put out with the Nardil side effects, but if Nardil make me apathetic like Paroxetin/Paxil did, I am not sure if I should take it. Also I am not depressed. I think just increasing GABA would be the best, but doc's here don't like prescribing benzos for long term use.I agree with you on the "benzo popping thing". Actually, if you just take them as needed you think "I have anxiety/panic and have to take a pill. Not excactly the way to build up some self esteem. When taking them every day, you just don't think any thing of it. Am I sick now? Do I need a pill again? Too bad the doctors don't agree with us.
Vik
Posted by Racer on August 11, 2008, at 17:28:22
In reply to Re: Nardil or not, posted by Vik07 on August 11, 2008, at 13:08:11
> > On the other hand it boosts serotonin in the brain, which I am convinced is not what I need at all. I am afraid of getting the same symptoms I got from Paroxetine/Paxil.
>
>
>There's a very big difference, though, between the effects of increasing serotonin, and increasing all three catecholamine neurotransmitters. Despite the number of people -- including some doctors, who really should know better -- who say that this symptoms requires an increase in that neurotransmitter, the reality is far less clear. Much research suggests that it's not the levels or activity of any one neurotransmitter, nor even the sensitivity to that neurotransmitter -- the most important part of symptom relief is the ratio between the various compounds. Increasing serotonin alone may lead to fatigue, while increasing the ratio between serotonin and noradrenaline/dopamine might not.
I hope that makes sense.
What I'm trying to say is that your reaction to paroxetine and your reaction to Nardil are likely to be unrelated. Their mechanism of action is very different, and the superficial resemblence -- that they both affect serotonin -- is unlikely to correlate with much similarity in their actions.
Best luck to you!
Posted by Vik07 on August 11, 2008, at 17:46:06
In reply to Re: Nardil or not » Vik07, posted by Racer on August 11, 2008, at 17:28:22
Just the kind of answer I was looking for, and I think you are right. Thank you for sharing your knowledge on this, Racer, it is highly appreciated :) I will try out Nardil now that I got it. Thanks
Posted by blueboy on August 13, 2008, at 11:39:53
In reply to Nardil or not, posted by Vik07 on August 11, 2008, at 12:05:21
> Hello everyone! I am new here, and English is not exactly my first language, so I hope you excuse my wrong spellings and bad language :)
>
> Was going to start Nardil today, but since I quit Paroxetin, I feel so much better.
>
> I care about things, do not oversleep and my overall focus is better. And I am not depressed at all. :) My anxiety is also better, but it is still there. Since Nardil affects serotonin, I am hesitant to start it, as I feel so much better since I quit Paroxetin.
>I would not take Nardil unless I had exhausted all other possibilities, personally (other than something like ECT). It works where other drugs don't, but it's a very dirty drug (i.e. lots of common side effect).
It also didn't help my anxiety at all. But it really helped my depression.
Posted by dcruik518 on August 13, 2008, at 16:03:21
In reply to Re: Nardil or not, posted by blueboy on August 13, 2008, at 11:39:53
Just be sure to give it an adequate trial. You'll probably need to work up to at least 60mg or maybe 90 mg before you get a good result, so it could take a couple of months to get the full effect. Be patient. Nardil often workds when nothing else does.
Posted by Vik07 on August 13, 2008, at 19:21:14
In reply to Re: Nardil or not, posted by dcruik518 on August 13, 2008, at 16:03:21
Yes, I am going to give it a fair trail/couple of months. I am starting with 60 mgs a day, and work my way up to 90 if necessary. I am not depressed, but my doc will rather have me on an antidepressant, even Nardil, than on benzos.
This is the end of the thread.
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