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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mike_Cohen_2 on July 14, 2008, at 13:40:24
I posted this as a follow up to a previous thread when I want to make a new thread, so I appoligize for the duplicate post.
I found some old archives, but I wanted to see if anyone has had any success with this drug for anxiety. If so, what dose and frequency and how long have you been on it. SSRI's do squat for me. They keep me from crying, but don't take away the sadness. Honestly, I feel better after a good cry, so IMHO crying is good. My depression seems to be secondary to my anxiety, or at least is seems to be as I have free floating anxiety all day long even with benzos.
I'm so tired of playing lab rat. I have about 20 different meds I've tried over the past 15 mos. when all this started for me. Nothing helps the anxiety except the benzos. I got some relief from Buspar for the first two weeks, but then it turned on me and I think it made it worse in the end. Other than that, I've tried most of the SSRI's, Mood Stabilizers, Augmentation with Antipsychotics, etc. I even saw a homeopathic Dr. and spend a few hundred bucks on supplements which did squat.
I took 5-HTP 100mg three times/day while on 50mg of Zoloft. Got the crazy diarrhea from it, but in the end, no relief from anxiety and I think it started putting me into Serotonin syndrome, so I stopped taking it.
Bleuberry, I saw you ordered Stablon and wondering what, if any, effect it has done on you. I'm not sure I understand how it works. If it enhances Serotonin release, then doesn't it work just like our bodies do without it ? The SSRI block to reuptake, thus keeping the Serotonin in the Synapse, so they claim. Isn't that where you want it ? I'm really confused about the two. Maybe you can clear the air for me. I have a 30 day supply here, not sure if I should take it with the 50mg Zoloft QD or just switch it. If I switch it, do I get the withdrawal?
I think I'll change my username to LabRat..lol
Gary
Posted by Phillipa on July 14, 2008, at 13:50:54
In reply to Stablon (tianeptine) for Anxiety, posted by Mike_Cohen_2 on July 14, 2008, at 13:40:24
Gary you sound like me over the years all the meds the benzos used to work no more and have tried and am trying multiple supplements now fish oil and nothing. Didn't get into to homopathic doc as he's full for years. I wish I could cry as it does help. Can't wait for the answer. Love Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on July 14, 2008, at 15:41:54
In reply to Stablon (tianeptine) for Anxiety, posted by Mike_Cohen_2 on July 14, 2008, at 13:40:24
Stablon is claimed in scientific literature to be intended for "anxious depression". Since we all know mileage varies, I have seen a couple reports of anxiety getting worse. But that goes for anything, like you and Buspar. For the most part, general comments on Stablon are that it is calming in a way similar to, but different from, benzos.
I don't know. I've ordered meds from overseas dozens of times over the last decade and never had a problem until now. 30 days and no Stablon received. I just contacted the company. Also ordered more from a different company to cover the bases.
I wouldn't worry about trying to figure out how any serotonin effect of meds works on anxiety. The theory of keeping it in the synapse is, well, a theory. I can find you plenty of ratings/posts of people who got zero relief from ssris and who had even worse anxiety after a month on them. Generally they work. How, who knows. Probably intricate interplay with hormones, receptor sensitivities, and other neurotransmitter systems.
Not sure what homeopathic things you tried. I never been that route. As far as natural goes, I can say that the cortisol regulating herbs, such as siberian ginseng, ashwagandha, and others (a mixture in capsule form my doc gave me) worked pretty well at calming things down. I mean, after a week, I was calm and serene as could be. Lots of things make me more depressed, and those did too. Not likely to happen with anyone else.
Keep in mind, if you are looking at Stablon, any of its effects on serotonin seem rather minor when compared to the other things it does. At the manufacturer's website, and other places, they hardly mention the serotonin part at all. It's the other stuff...HPA axis regulation, neuronal plasticity, corticosteroid hormones, cytokines, and stuff.
All this is over my head. I don't try to figure it out. Actually, it's over the heads of doctors too. They just make educated highly paid guesses.
One thing for sure...serotonin does not seem to be a major player in your symptoms, based on what you've tried so far. Buspar made it worse? Its metabolite is a norepinephrine releaser. Maybe that's a clue? Too much norepinephrine? Or too much of something else related to norepinephrine, such as cortisol? If that is the case, it would help explain why none of the meds have helped much. None of the ones you listed touched those biochemistries in any significant way, or actually influenced them in a direction that would make things worse. Just a thought.
I guess for now, while pondering your next move, at least be glad the benzos cut the edge a bit. Better than nothing. I've found, and heard from others, that the different benzos can work differently. So if you haven't already, you might want to sample a different one or two. They all depress me, but in terms of calming I found the best were Lorazepam or Klonopin. Xanax was good too at the physical stuff, but didn't seem to dent the "craziness" stuff as much as the others did.
> Bleuberry, I saw you ordered Stablon and wondering what, if any, effect it has done on you. I'm not sure I understand how it works. If it enhances Serotonin release, then doesn't it work just like our bodies do without it ? The SSRI block to reuptake, thus keeping the Serotonin in the Synapse, so they claim. Isn't that where you want it ? I'm really confused about the two. Maybe you can clear the air for me. I have a 30 day supply here, not sure if I should take it with the 50mg Zoloft QD or just switch it. If I switch it, do I get the withdrawal?
>
> I think I'll change my username to LabRat..lol
>
> Gary
Posted by Mike_Cohen_2 on July 14, 2008, at 16:26:10
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine) for Anxiety » Mike_Cohen_2, posted by bleauberry on July 14, 2008, at 15:41:54
Are you suggesting that possibly a drug such as Cymbalta or Effexor which inhibit norepi might be better for me? Or were you saying to stay away from those drugs, i.e. don't mess with Norepi ?
Also, while I have you hear, what are your thoughts on Lyrica, I see it's approved for neuropathic pain, but also got FDA approval for GAD. I hear it can be sedating and I have a bottle of it here 50mg tabs that one doc Rx'd me a while back, but I didn't stick with him and never took it. My Psych doc. pretty much gives me what I want if I can provide her supporting literature. We work together, which is what I love about her.
Lastly, let me ask your thoughts on this. The first two weeks while titrating up on the Buspar I was feeling anxiety free, this was at 7.5mg bid, well the doc wanted me higher, so I noticed the increase in anxiety which I know can occur when titrating the drug, so I dismissed it. But I got to 15mg T.I.D and have felt like sht while going up. Would you think going back to 7.5mg is worth a shot as I havn't dosed today at all. Thanks as always for your support.... BTW, I got my Stablon from Aurapharm and it came within 2 weeks.
Gary
Posted by bleauberry on July 14, 2008, at 17:03:01
In reply to Bleuberry Question, posted by Mike_Cohen_2 on July 14, 2008, at 16:26:10
I'm not suggesting stay away from NE drugs, but rather certain mechanisms of NE drugs. The inhibitors...maybe a good thing...they interupt the feedback loops and slow down NE firing. The NE releasers (Remeron, Buspar, amphetamines, slight effects from antipsychotics), different story. They just shoot out more NE and fuel the fire. Pure theory on my part, and of course a very general one that does not apply universally.
I don't know much about Lyrica. A girl at work takes it for FM pain. She was tired the first week or so, has gained some weight, says it works good some days and not so good others. Her symptom is pain. Other than that, I just go by what people here have to say.
Buspar at your lower dose might be worth a retry. I don't agree with doctors increasing a dose just because you're supposed to. Take whatever dose works and forget about what size it is. I don't agrue with results or try to figure them out.
I just heard back from Aurapharm. They have lots of complaints of a two week period end of June. The meds left the country then disappeared. USPS never saw them. They refunded my payment and are reshipping for free. They are investigating what happened, as I am not the only one who lost their shipment in that timeframe. Pretty good service.
> Are you suggesting that possibly a drug such as Cymbalta or Effexor which inhibit norepi might be better for me? Or were you saying to stay away from those drugs, i.e. don't mess with Norepi ?
>
> Also, while I have you hear, what are your thoughts on Lyrica, I see it's approved for neuropathic pain, but also got FDA approval for GAD. I hear it can be sedating and I have a bottle of it here 50mg tabs that one doc Rx'd me a while back, but I didn't stick with him and never took it. My Psych doc. pretty much gives me what I want if I can provide her supporting literature. We work together, which is what I love about her.
>
> Lastly, let me ask your thoughts on this. The first two weeks while titrating up on the Buspar I was feeling anxiety free, this was at 7.5mg bid, well the doc wanted me higher, so I noticed the increase in anxiety which I know can occur when titrating the drug, so I dismissed it. But I got to 15mg T.I.D and have felt like sht while going up. Would you think going back to 7.5mg is worth a shot as I havn't dosed today at all. Thanks as always for your support.... BTW, I got my Stablon from Aurapharm and it came within 2 weeks.
>
> Gary
Posted by Maria3667 on July 14, 2008, at 18:16:06
In reply to Stablon (tianeptine) for Anxiety, posted by Mike_Cohen_2 on July 14, 2008, at 13:40:24
Hi Gary,
Contrary to the claims of the manufacturer, I got severe trouble with anxiety whilst on Tianeptine. I think it has to do with some sort of serotonine feedback mechanism which increases dopamine levels.
I tried to stick it out for 2 months, with no avail.
I find Seroquel to be a much better option for anxiety related problems.
Hope this helps some.Maria
> I posted this as a follow up to a previous thread when I want to make a new thread, so I appoligize for the duplicate post.
>
> I found some old archives, but I wanted to see if anyone has had any success with this drug for anxiety. If so, what dose and frequency and how long have you been on it. SSRI's do squat for me. They keep me from crying, but don't take away the sadness. Honestly, I feel better after a good cry, so IMHO crying is good. My depression seems to be secondary to my anxiety, or at least is seems to be as I have free floating anxiety all day long even with benzos.
>
> I'm so tired of playing lab rat. I have about 20 different meds I've tried over the past 15 mos. when all this started for me. Nothing helps the anxiety except the benzos. I got some relief from Buspar for the first two weeks, but then it turned on me and I think it made it worse in the end. Other than that, I've tried most of the SSRI's, Mood Stabilizers, Augmentation with Antipsychotics, etc. I even saw a homeopathic Dr. and spend a few hundred bucks on supplements which did squat.
>
> I took 5-HTP 100mg three times/day while on 50mg of Zoloft. Got the crazy diarrhea from it, but in the end, no relief from anxiety and I think it started putting me into Serotonin syndrome, so I stopped taking it.
>
> Bleuberry, I saw you ordered Stablon and wondering what, if any, effect it has done on you. I'm not sure I understand how it works. If it enhances Serotonin release, then doesn't it work just like our bodies do without it ? The SSRI block to reuptake, thus keeping the Serotonin in the Synapse, so they claim. Isn't that where you want it ? I'm really confused about the two. Maybe you can clear the air for me. I have a 30 day supply here, not sure if I should take it with the 50mg Zoloft QD or just switch it. If I switch it, do I get the withdrawal?
>
> I think I'll change my username to LabRat..lol
>
> Gary
Posted by bleauberry on July 14, 2008, at 20:37:11
In reply to Stablon (tianeptine) for Anxiety, posted by Mike_Cohen_2 on July 14, 2008, at 13:40:24
HI Mike,
About Nortriptyline, yes I have tried it. I had an allergic reaction to it, to put it very modestly. Bad.
I don't know how you would respond to either effexor or cymbalta. I know effexor's serotonin/NE ratio is 30:1 while cymbalta is 9:1. I'm sure things are a lot more complicated than that though.
Tianeptine. A poster to your thread got anxiety from it. Others say it was mellowing and calm. So, it is really hard to predict. Our individual biochemistries and genes are so different.
This is the end of the thread.
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