Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 835215

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Re: Modafinil SLS

Posted by tensor on June 18, 2008, at 6:44:11

In reply to Re: Modafinil, posted by SLS on June 18, 2008, at 4:50:47

Hi Scott.

Initially I tried 100mg in the morning, it wasn't enough. Then I added 100mg around 11am which was better, but 200mg at the same time in the morning gives a much more robust response. Raising the dosing is the next logical step. I'm thinking of 300mg 6-7am or perhaps split and take 100mg a few hours later, although it's so slow to kick in and in combination with a relatively long half-life I think I could take whole dose at the same time.

Yes it's expensive, although I'm whining a bit because I have an insurance that covers it. It's just the complications of getting your money back, i.e. save receipts, go to the insurance company with receipts and copies of prescriptions, do an application and then wait two weeks.

Btw, what do you think is the reason of the drop in effectiveness? Is it a chemical adjustment in the brain or is it the liver that has more enzymes, or what?

/Mattias

 

Re: Modafinil tensor

Posted by Phillipa on June 18, 2008, at 10:50:39

In reply to Re: Modafinil SLS, posted by tensor on June 18, 2008, at 6:44:11

You say you have been working really hard could you just be really in need of a break? Just a thought. Phillipa

 

Re: Modafinil Phillipa

Posted by tensor on June 18, 2008, at 14:22:15

In reply to Re: Modafinil tensor, posted by Phillipa on June 18, 2008, at 10:50:39

Hi Phillipa,

yes, and I also have been moving to a new house which has been really exhausting, no rest. Perhaps it's that simple, I guess time will tell when things settle a bit.

/Mattias

 

Re: Modafinil tensor

Posted by Molybdenum on June 24, 2008, at 5:05:47

In reply to Modafinil, posted by tensor on June 18, 2008, at 4:04:58

Hi tensor,

I take 200mg of modafinil as soon as I wake up & again at midday. Otherwise I just can't make it through the afternoon. Sometimes I've taken 300mg twice a day but honestly, I don't think it does any more than the 2 x 200. Had to try, hey?

One thing my sleep doc is adamant about (and he's the professor in charge of the sleep disorders unit) is the need to take regular breaks to reset your sensitivity. He says MINIMUM is taking every second weekend off - no modafinil. I wanted to change to monthly but he told me it was too long. Ideally, he says it should be every weekend off.

So that's what I do - 2 out of every 14 days I skip the modafinil. Admittedly, it's not the greatest feeling & I don't get much done on those 2 days, but it's getting easier because I know what to expect now. BTW, I certainly don't get "withdrawals" - I just feel a bit "down" and unproductive.

But when I take it on the following Monday morning, it feels as good as it was when I first started.

My doc says this is essential, and yet I rarely hear people here talk about giving themselves a break. It really does help. I strongly suggest you work it into your life.

Take Care ;)

Mr Molybdenum.

 

Re: Modafinil Molybdenum

Posted by tensor on June 24, 2008, at 6:26:29

In reply to Re: Modafinil tensor, posted by Molybdenum on June 24, 2008, at 5:05:47

Hi,

yeah, I will stick to that strategy, not taking it on weekends. Do you, or anyone else have a little difficulty breathing while on modafinil, like a tightness around the chest? I can't see it listed as a side effect. It troubles me a bit.

Kind regards,
Mattias

 

Re: Modafinil tensor

Posted by Molybdenum on June 24, 2008, at 6:46:09

In reply to Modafinil, posted by tensor on June 18, 2008, at 4:04:58

This drug (Modiodal) is *so* expensive, wish there were generics around here.
>

Hi again tensor,

I forgot I also have something to offer re your comment above.

*** THERE ARE GENERICS AVAILABLE TO YOU! ***

I don't know what country you're in but many countries allow you to import 3 months supply with a script from your local doctor. That's the deal in Australia anyway and it's perfectly legal. I guess you're in Europe, right?

I have purchased modafinil powder from http://bulk.airsealed.com/pd_modafinil.cfm and had no problems with quality or payment. They manufacture & ship it from Bosnia. You will need to invest in some mg accurate scales too though. I bought the "Gemini-20" on ebay for USD$30. They're very accurate and a bargain at the ebay price. http://www.americanweigh.com/product_info.php?products_id=580 Otherwise, they also sell Modalert tabs which are manufactured in India by Sun Pharmaceutics. see http://shop.airsealed.com/pd_modalert.cfm They're a little dearer - but obviously no need for the scales.

I've also purchased modafinil from www.inhousepharmacy.com. In fact, the last time I bought it there it was considerably cheaper that the powder from Airsealed.! They sell the exact same Modalert brand as above. Back in April this year, 100x 200mg Tabs cost GBP56.50. They ship it out from Vanuatu. It got to me here in Australia in just 10 days.

Now, these companies don't give a rat's a_r_s_e if you have a script or not. But YOU need to care because if you try to import it without "whatever your country requires" you'll be breaking YOUR country's laws. So I strongly suggest you call your country's version of the US FDA to see what they require.

One minor complication with inhousepharmacy is that if you search their site for "modafinil", you won't find it. They told me that they took it off because so many Americans were ordering it WITHOUT a US script, that the DEA was just confiscating so many packages. Then the customers were complaining that they didn't receive it, bad mouthing inhouse in forums when inhouse had done nothing wrong. So to avoid bad publicity, they just took it off their site. You can imagine how fickle their customer base is. That's their story anyhow...

If you're bored goto google search & paste in site:http://www.inhousepharmacy.com modafinil

It'll show you the modafinil page. It's still there - they just unlinked it from the site search results :) So all you need to do is e-mail or ring them http://www.inhousepharmacy.com/contact.html & they'll tell you the latest prices for generic modafinil (Modalert) & do a manual order for you. In April, their price was about 1/6 the local name brand here! :)

Lastly, I now have 3 different lots of modafinil. The powder from Bosnia, some tabs from India and a "sample pack" of our official name brand "Modavigil" my doc got from the sales rep. I don't have a mass spectrometer but subjectively, I assure you they are indistinguishable in terms of effect.

Good Hunting :)

Mr. M.

 

Re: Modafinil Molybdenum

Posted by tensor on June 24, 2008, at 6:58:51

In reply to Re: Modafinil tensor, posted by Molybdenum on June 24, 2008, at 6:46:09

Hi,

it's definately worth looking in to, the price for 30 x 100mg is about 70euro which is about 96USD. I reside in Finland, not sure about the import laws and regulations.
Are you familiar with s/e I described im my former post?

/Mattias

 

Re: Modafinil tensor

Posted by Molybdenum on June 24, 2008, at 7:22:24

In reply to Re: Modafinil Molybdenum, posted by tensor on June 24, 2008, at 6:26:29

> Hi,
>
> yeah, I will stick to that strategy, not taking it on weekends. Do you, or anyone else have a little difficulty breathing while on modafinil, like a tightness around the chest? I can't see it listed as a side effect. It troubles me a bit.
>
> Kind regards,
> Mattias

No, I can't say I have ever felt that from modafinil. Methylphenidate - absolutely..! Man I hate that drug. Wish I could sell all the boxes I have of it (from before I got on to the cheap modafinil). Yet strangely if I were to sell it, I would be Babbleing from the inside of the local prison for sure..! ;)

From the modafinil data sheets:

1. Most side-effects subside after a few weeks without reducing the dose.

2. The following are RARE side effects (modafinil vs placebo):
* Chest pain (3% vs 1%)
* Tachycardia (2% vs 1%)

So your feelings of tightness in the chest could be mild "chest pain" as per above. Then again, tightness in the chest is also a symptom of anxiety. I would suggest either lowering the dose of modafinil, or splitting it between morning & midday to see if that stops the feeling. Lastly, you could try .5mg Xanax with it. If it's anxiety related, the Xanax should clarify that for you.

I have a few good PDFs I've collected over the years. Msg me with an e-mail address & I'll send them to you.

Take Care :)

 

Re: Modafinil

Posted by cactus on June 24, 2008, at 15:10:08

In reply to Re: Modafinil Molybdenum, posted by tensor on June 24, 2008, at 6:26:29

> Hi,
>
> yeah, I will stick to that strategy, not taking it on weekends. Do you, or anyone else have a little difficulty breathing while on modafinil, like a tightness around the chest? I can't see it listed as a side effect. It troubles me a bit.
>
> Kind regards,
> Mattias


No I don't get that either, maybe you should tell your Dr about it. It doesn't sound good. I'm also going to start breaks like Moly suggested, every 2nd weekend. It's been a great drug for me.

 

Re: Modafinil tensor

Posted by Molybdenum on June 24, 2008, at 18:05:48

In reply to Re: Modafinil Molybdenum, posted by tensor on June 24, 2008, at 6:58:51

> Hi,
>
> it's definately worth looking in to, the price for 30 x 100mg is about 70euro which is about 96USD. I reside in Finland, not sure about the import laws and regulations.
> Are you familiar with s/e I described im my former post?
>
> /Mattias

Hi,

it's too early in the morning for me now. I don't know what you mean by "s/e" - even with the modafinil :)

 

Re: Modafinil *woops* please ignore this post (nm) Molybdenum

Posted by Molybdenum on June 24, 2008, at 18:10:03

In reply to Re: Modafinil tensor, posted by Molybdenum on June 24, 2008, at 18:05:48

> > Hi,
> >
> > it's definately worth looking in to, the price for 30 x 100mg is about 70euro which is about 96USD. I reside in Finland, not sure about the import laws and regulations.
> > Are you familiar with s/e I described im my former post?
> >
> > /Mattias
>
> Hi,
>
> it's too early in the morning for me now. I don't know what you mean by "s/e" - even with the modafinil :)

Sorry - s/e = side effects of course. *doh*....*yawn*.... ;)

 

Re: Modafinil SE's

Posted by elanor roosevelt on June 26, 2008, at 22:45:37

In reply to Re: Modafinil, posted by cactus on June 24, 2008, at 15:10:08

I like the effects of Modafinal but I have 2 major Se issues that are making it impossible to continue
one is irritation to the inside of my mouth
the other is that it is very very difficult for me to get up in the morning
anyone else have these problems?

 

Re: Modafinil SE's elanor roosevelt

Posted by Molybdenum on June 26, 2008, at 23:19:08

In reply to Re: Modafinil SE's, posted by elanor roosevelt on June 26, 2008, at 22:45:37

> I like the effects of Modafinal but I have 2 major Se issues that are making it impossible to continue
> one is irritation to the inside of my mouth
> the other is that it is very very difficult for me to get up in the morning
> anyone else have these problems?

Hi,

I've been having a strange SE and it could very well be the modafinil, as it started about the same time. It's no huge problem but my mouth gets very dry. I take a sip of water and that fixes it - for 5 seconds. In fact it's really just the back of my mouth. Strange but not painful as yours sounds.

However I do remember seeing a documentary (on Discovery maybe?) about an innovative treatment for mouth ulcers which might work for your mouth irritation. Basically the researchers had found that capsaicin from cayenne pepper healed ulcers very well but patients just couldn't tolerate it. So they mixed it into a kind of hard, suckable toffee & apparently it was then a great success. Here's a link to the idea: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5788982-description.html

As for not wanting to get out of bed in the morning, I too have that most days. I don't think the modafinil is responsible though. I think it's just called depression - at least in my case.

But another babbler here who takes modafinil mentioned that he too had difficulty getting out of bed, so he takes some methylphenidate (Ritalin) at the same time as the modafinil. That works for him. I've swallowed a lot of Ritalin over the years & I can attest to it's superiority over modafinil for "getting you up". So maybe try that. I have read that the 2 drugs are quite compatible, ie no interaction other than one odd thing: if you take them at the same time, the modafinil absorption gets delayed by one hour. Strange but I'm sure you'll agree it's not a problem.

Hope you can overcome your SEs. I'm a big fan of modafinil.

Good Luck

M.

 

Re: Modafinil SE's Molybdenum

Posted by tensor on June 27, 2008, at 0:12:02

In reply to Re: Modafinil SE's elanor roosevelt, posted by Molybdenum on June 26, 2008, at 23:19:08

Hi,

you said methylphenidate gave you shortness of breath, did you find out why? Was it allergy, higher heart rate or what?

/Mattias

 

Re: Modafinil SE's Molybdenum

Posted by tensor on June 27, 2008, at 1:59:36

In reply to Re: Modafinil SE's elanor roosevelt, posted by Molybdenum on June 26, 2008, at 23:19:08

Spoke to my pdoc this morning about the breathing problem. He said dyspnea is not uncommon among stimulants and should likely not be uncommon for stimulant-like drugs either. Dyspnea is listed as a side effect (>1/1000 - <1/100) for modafinil on the pharmacy authorities web site in Sweden. So I will relax about this as it is not as bad that I can't live with it, I just had to know it's not dangerous, which it shouldn't be. Modafinil is working great for my fatigue and concentration problems.

/Mattias

 

Re: Modafinil SE's tensor

Posted by Molybdenum on June 27, 2008, at 2:40:49

In reply to Re: Modafinil SE's Molybdenum, posted by tensor on June 27, 2008, at 0:12:02

> Hi,
>
> you said methylphenidate gave you shortness of breath, did you find out why? Was it allergy, higher heart rate or what?
>
> /Mattias

Hi,

I certainly don't think it was an allergic reaction - let me explain (please forgive the waffling...) Basically, I have chronic tiredness from being a pathologically bad sleeper. So when I take stimulants I'm "a very tired person trying to compensate". Whereas some people who aren't so tired take them to feel "extra alert" or "hyper stimulated". What I mean is that none of these drugs make my tiredness disappear. They just boost several of the "aspects of tiredness" to an extent that I can get by / drive / work, etc. In no way do they succeed in "reversing" my tiredness.

I've taken up to 80mg of Ritalin at a time in order to try to get through the day, but I've found that the more I take, the more it just boosts those few specific aspects of tiredness that it targets. So under these circumstances, I've felt pretty awful. In some ways "worse" than not taking any stims at all. I hope this is making sense. I think of it like a graphic equaliser with say 10 slide switches for you to adjust the music from the subsonic bass all the way up to the highest notes. In my experience, methylphenidate is capable of pushing up the levels of say 4 of those 10 aspects of "feeling alert". And the more I took, the higher it increased those 4 slide switches, while doing nothing for the other 6.

Methylphenidate & other amphetamines I've tried seem to push up "physical body" switches such as heart rate, respiration, sweating, etc at the same time as those 4 aspects of alertness. So on those days when I was more tired than usual, I would sometimes take "too much" methylphenidate and while it boosted the 4 aspects I needed, it also boosted the physical ones too.

So to answer your question, I believe the "shortness of breath" & palpitations I experienced under these circumstances was simply due to me taking too much of the drug. I think my physical reaction would be fairly typical & not an alergy.

In contrast, I feel modafinil seems to push maybe 7 of those 10 "alertness switches" and incidentally, does NOT push up those other physical switches which produced my unpleasant methylphenidate side effects. I've taken up to 800mg of modafinil and really had zero "physical" effects - which is good IMHO. ;)

So I much prefer modafinil over the amphetamines / methylphenidate stims as it seems to target more aspects of "mental tiredness" and at the same time, less "physical body" effects.

Apologies for the waffling again - for some reason I'm extra tired this week & the modafinil has definitely given up for the day. I'm due for my "2 days off" this weekend, so hopefully I'll be much better again on Monday :)

Take Care

Mr. M.

 

Re: Modafinil SE's elanor roosevelt

Posted by Molybdenum on June 27, 2008, at 2:50:34

In reply to Re: Modafinil SE's, posted by elanor roosevelt on June 26, 2008, at 22:45:37

> I like the effects of Modafinal but I have 2 major Se issues that are making it impossible to continue
> one is irritation to the inside of my mouth

Hi # 2 ER,

I've been thinking more about your strange oral irritation problem and re-reading the modafinil data sheets. I'm wondering if you might be having a mild form of the rare, yet nonetheless "known" dermatological adverse reactions.

Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil & scroll down to the "Severe adverse reactions" section. It lists a bunch of skin related side effects with links to explain them. See if you think your symptoms might fall into one of those categories.

And please let us know how you get on.

Take Care

Mr. M.


 

Re: Modafinil SE's

Posted by elanor roosevelt on June 27, 2008, at 22:42:48

In reply to Re: Modafinil SE's elanor roosevelt, posted by Molybdenum on June 26, 2008, at 23:19:08

Thanks for your notes. The candy with cayenne seems worth a try.
Also thanks for your concern but it's not a reaction that is specific to modafinal for me. I'll try the cayenne though.

Modafinal definitely makes it very difficult for me to get up in the morning. but if i can get the mouth thing settled i will figure out the morning thing


> > I like the effects of Modafinal but I have 2 major Se issues that are making it impossible to continue
> > one is irritation to the inside of my mouth
> > the other is that it is very very difficult for me to get up in the morning
> > anyone else have these problems?
>
> Hi,
>
> I've been having a strange SE and it could very well be the modafinil, as it started about the same time. It's no huge problem but my mouth gets very dry. I take a sip of water and that fixes it - for 5 seconds. In fact it's really just the back of my mouth. Strange but not painful as yours sounds.
>
> However I do remember seeing a documentary (on Discovery maybe?) about an innovative treatment for mouth ulcers which might work for your mouth irritation. Basically the researchers had found that capsaicin from cayenne pepper healed ulcers very well but patients just couldn't tolerate it. So they mixed it into a kind of hard, suckable toffee & apparently it was then a great success. Here's a link to the idea: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5788982-description.html
>
> As for not wanting to get out of bed in the morning, I too have that most days. I don't think the modafinil is responsible though. I think it's just called depression - at least in my case.
>
> But another babbler here who takes modafinil mentioned that he too had difficulty getting out of bed, so he takes some methylphenidate (Ritalin) at the same time as the modafinil. That works for him. I've swallowed a lot of Ritalin over the years & I can attest to it's superiority over modafinil for "getting you up". So maybe try that. I have read that the 2 drugs are quite compatible, ie no interaction other than one odd thing: if you take them at the same time, the modafinil absorption gets delayed by one hour. Strange but I'm sure you'll agree it's not a problem.
>
> Hope you can overcome your SEs. I'm a big fan of modafinil.
>
> Good Luck
>
> M.
>

 

Re: Modafinil SE's elanor roosevelt

Posted by Molybdenum on June 28, 2008, at 2:58:54

In reply to Re: Modafinil SE's, posted by elanor roosevelt on June 27, 2008, at 22:42:48

> Modafinal definitely makes it very difficult for me to get up in the morning. but if i can get the mouth thing settled i will figure out the morning thing

Hi,

I think I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that the modafinil wasn't stimulating enough to get you up in the morning. Are you saying it actually sort of sedates you?

 

Re: Modafinil morning SE's

Posted by elanor roosevelt on July 1, 2008, at 21:41:55

In reply to Re: Modafinil SE's elanor roosevelt, posted by Molybdenum on June 28, 2008, at 2:58:54

no, it's a morning-after effect
the next day it is difficult for me to get up

 

Re: Modafinil morning SE's elanor roosevelt

Posted by Molybdenum on July 2, 2008, at 3:17:48

In reply to Re: Modafinil morning SE's, posted by elanor roosevelt on July 1, 2008, at 21:41:55

> no, it's a morning-after effect
> the next day it is difficult for me to get up
>

Hmmm.... please don't think I'm trivialising your problem, and please take this the right way, but I think you're "normal"...! There - I said it, and in these hallowed halls of nuttiness...

A single dose of modafinil is supposed to only work for one day. In fact, I find I need to take 200mg when I wake up *and* another 200mg at midday to get me through.

I take it for 12 days straight & then have a "weekend off". I find those weekends without pretty unpleasant, ie very tired, lethargic and unfortunately lately "depressing" too. In a way I suppose that's good, as I take it to mean that I really needed to have a break.

When I resume the following Monday, I'm OK again. I think the 2 days off is necessary to reset your sensitivity.

So what I'm getting at is that I think that "having difficulty getting up" the morning after you've been using stimulants, would be a pretty normal response - not a side effect as such.

What do you think?

 

Re: Modafinil

Posted by annabamma on July 22, 2008, at 12:10:30

In reply to Re: Modafinil tensor, posted by Molybdenum on June 24, 2008, at 5:05:47

Can I ask -do you take modafinil for sleep apnea? And alone or with a CPAP? Just wondering....

 

Re: Modafinil annabamma

Posted by tensor on July 23, 2008, at 4:26:51

In reply to Re: Modafinil, posted by annabamma on July 22, 2008, at 12:10:30

I take it for fatigue and poor concentration.

 

Re: Modafinil annabamma

Posted by Molybdenum on July 23, 2008, at 7:58:31

In reply to Re: Modafinil, posted by annabamma on July 22, 2008, at 12:10:30

> Can I ask -do you take modafinil for sleep apnea? And alone or with a CPAP? Just wondering....

I have had "Excessive Daytime Sleepiness" for 10 years. mild at first, crippling in the last few years.

I was diagnosed with severe Central Sleep Apnoea 5 years ago, was prescribed modafinil but swapped over to Ritalin to reduce costs. Then earlier this year someone here told me where I could cheap Modalert brand modafinil from India. So I did that & found it really helped a lot. Normal CPAP is not usually good for CSA, so I had to buy a $9000 "respirator". But I found I just couldn't stand the thing - and believe me I tried. It's sitting in a box now useless...

One month ago I did my 4th sleep study - last was in 2003. During the daytime Mean Sleep Latency Test I scored extremely high, meaning I have severe narcolepsy now. It's all a bit academic as my symptoms have never changed - just got progressively worse.

So earlier this year I was taking it for "CSA". As of 4 weeks ago, I am taking it because "narcolepsy"..

:)

 

Re: Modafinil

Posted by Tony P on July 29, 2008, at 17:13:36

In reply to Re: Modafinil annabamma, posted by Molybdenum on July 23, 2008, at 7:58:31

I'm very interested in this as I suffer both from depression/bipolar related hypersomnia and sleep apnea. I'm finally going to get officially tested for the latter, which I've known I had for years. Being a restless sleeper, I'm doubtful about the equipment solutions to the apnea, and not anxious to have surgery at my age & state of health.

So I'm definitely looking for medication aids, and I have found Modafinil & Adrafinil helpful with the daytime drowsiness so long as I actually get out of bed!! I may need ammunition to convince my GP (currently I am in a pdoc-free zone), as he thinks (probably correctly) that I'm already taking too many different meds.

Tony


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