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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SalArmy4me on March 19, 2001, at 10:47:19
Its about time I just get this depression over with already.
Posted by Eric on March 19, 2001, at 19:08:18
In reply to How much does ECT cost?, posted by SalArmy4me on March 19, 2001, at 10:47:19
> Its about time I just get this depression over with already.
Jason, ECT is very expensive. However it is also quite effective from what I have been told and read. Insurance should cover it. Unilateral ECT is said to have the least side effects. Bilateral ECT is said to cause pretty bad memory problems as a side effect. ECT is also supposed to be very effective for all types of mood disorders. From straightforward unipolar depression to bipolar manic depression. Also it is said to be good for psychotic depression or depression with delusions.
Check out Max Fink's ECT website if you want to read more about the specifics of ECT. My advice to you would be to perhaps consider it and it may or may not be for you...only YOU can truly decide that. However like anything else, remember you are paying for this service and the old adage "buyer beware" applies. So pick your shock doc carefully, ask a lot of questions and hopefully you will be able to make a good decision about it.
My biggest concern about it personally is I have been told by several psychiatrists that once you get ECT done, if you switch insurance plans in the future you may not get mental health coverage. Sometimes after youve had a series of ECTs and if you switch insurance plans, the new insurance company will put a "rider" into your plan denying you mental health coverage. Unfortunately in insurance, the laws which apply to mainstream medical coverage or "physical" illnesses dont necessarily apply to mental health coverage. So check into that, its something to think about.
Posted by steve on March 19, 2001, at 20:15:33
In reply to How much does ECT cost?, posted by SalArmy4me on March 19, 2001, at 10:47:19
> Its about time I just get this depression over with already.
I think ECT is essentially available for free to the destitute. Otherwise it's $1000 and up per treatment.
I knew someone whose brother finished up his MBA while visiting "old sparky," he swore by it. Then there was another friend of friends who now has seizures because of his 100 + ECTs. If Dr. Fink will tell you all that's good about ect, www.ect.org will show you the downside.
S.
Posted by MA on March 21, 2001, at 21:54:14
In reply to How much does ECT cost?, posted by SalArmy4me on March 19, 2001, at 10:47:19
I cam pretty close myself, but just after I said to my doc "let's do it", a med started to work. I know what you mean by getting it over with. There is a limit for low long you can be depressed without any relief.
Good luck. YOur doc should know the costs or be able to get them for you.
On the insurance issue...whatever happened to the mental health parity laws biologically based psychiatric diagnoses??? Coverage should apply equally or I would write to my state reps, congress people.
Posted by blueboy on May 12, 2008, at 16:03:02
In reply to Re: How much does ECT cost?, posted by Eric on March 19, 2001, at 19:08:18
> > Its about time I just get this depression over with already.
>
> Check out Max Fink's ECT website if you want to read more about the specifics of ECT.This was an very good response, even though I've snipped the good parts. I did want to say, that IMO Max Fink is not an objective source of information. He is pretty obviously a pro-ECT zealot and, more tangibly, has significant financial interests in selling ECT.
I would look elsewhere for advice. There are way too many people who, with a lack of decent scientific research, are willing to take extreme positions about ECT.
Posted by Crotale on May 13, 2008, at 16:25:29
In reply to Re: How much does ECT cost?, posted by blueboy on May 12, 2008, at 16:03:02
> This was an very good response, even though I've snipped the good parts. I did want to say, that IMO Max Fink is not an objective source of information. He is pretty obviously a pro-ECT zealot and, more tangibly, has significant financial interests in selling ECT.
Well, there isn't exactly a lot of money to be made in ECT - particularly if you're comparing it to the pharmaceutical industry! To the extent that he has built a career around studying this [very effective] treatment, I guess you could say that Fink is a "zealot." I wouldn't use that word personally, though, any more than I would call, say, Marsha Linehan a "Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy Zealot."
> I would look elsewhere for advice. There are way too many people who, with a lack of decent scientific research, are willing to take extreme positions about ECT.
This is unfortunately true, although it was more true in the past. I don't know to what extent it is the case now. Most of the stuff I have heard on the internet about ECT that sounds "extreme" to me is the talk of the organized anti-psychiatry movement, not of real scientists or clinicians who actually have experience with modern ECT.
Much of what might seem overzealous is probably just researchers and clinicians being at pains to point out that the research really does support the safety & efficacy of ECT. In the past people have gotten the wrong ideas about it from the movies etc., and on the other hand in the past ECT really has been abused (and not just on the other side of the Iron Curtain). But anyway, you can understand, with films like "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" out there, why physicians might feel they have to go to particularly great lengths to emphasize that this procedure is not really like it has been portrayed, yes?
Crotale
Posted by John Doughboy on May 14, 2008, at 17:09:55
In reply to Re: How much does ECT cost? » blueboy, posted by Crotale on May 13, 2008, at 16:25:29
Although I've been extremely fearful of ECT in the past, I'm seriously considering it if the next few meds fail. (I'm on Zoloft and it's fantastic for anxiety and obsessive symptoms,but useless for drive and energy.)
Although it scares the crap out of me that very little is known about how ECT really works, I figure any long term effects at this point can't be worse than severe depression for the rest of my life.
I wish I can find more balanced info about it though. I seems like everything I've read is from the hardcore anti psychiatry crowd or the pro "ECT is a universal panacea". (Definitely more former than latter though.)
Posted by lady scruffe on May 16, 2008, at 16:14:44
In reply to Re: How much does ECT cost?, posted by John Doughboy on May 14, 2008, at 17:09:55
> Although I've been extremely fearful of ECT in the past, I'm seriously considering it if the next few meds fail. (I'm on Zoloft and it's fantastic for anxiety and obsessive symptoms,but useless for drive and energy.)
>
> Although it scares the crap out of me that very little is known about how ECT really works, I figure any long term effects at this point can't be worse than severe depression for the rest of my life.
>
> I wish I can find more balanced info about it though. I seems like everything I've read is from the hardcore anti psychiatry crowd or the pro "ECT is a universal panacea". (Definitely more former than latter though.)Please do not do ECT. PLEASE! I have been totally disabled from treatment resistent depression/GAD since 2002 and have also been on all medications/ also augmented and finally after researching ECT and getting multiple opinions - did a 12 course series of ECT fall of 2005. The side effects are so bad - such mental confusion during the wks of treatments and for months/yrs after. Such headaches - even with morphine shots after every treatment. My memory is still so bad - and so many memories of pre ECT yrs are gone for good. Your behavior during and for months after is goofy to say the least - it caused such anguish and worry in my family that my son who was a senior at Yale almost had to drop out - he was so flipped out by my bizarre behaviour. A lifelong reader of anything and everything - I still cannot process/understand/retain most of what I read. It's gone. I can't spell - I was an expert at it. ECT made me worse. It did not lift my depression and it has made me even more self conscious around people - even family - because I don't know if I am repeating myself, when past ocasions at which apparently I was present come up in conversation - I just nod and pretend - I often have no memory of the occasion. And I had this done 3 yrs ago!
I am currrently going on Nardil tomorrow but am scared. I was on parnate for one month, was absolutely strict about the diet required and ended up in the ER anyway with high BP and a headache that was so bad I would have agreed to be put to sleep. Beware: most reg Docs, even ER, have little or no familiarity with this old class of drugs - another thing to worry about. The ER Doc went online to see how to treat me.
ECT without insurance costs at least $30,000 in the US.
Posted by Zeba on May 17, 2008, at 4:52:29
In reply to Re: How much does ECT cost? » John Doughboy, posted by lady scruffe on May 16, 2008, at 16:14:44
>
> Please do not do ECT. PLEASE! I have been totally disabled from treatment resistent depression/GAD since 2002 and have also been on all medications/ also augmented and finally after researching ECT and getting multiple opinions - did a 12 course series of ECT fall of 2005. The side effects are so bad - such mental confusion during the wks of treatments and for months/yrs after. Such headaches - even with morphine shots after every treatment. My memory is still so bad - and so many memories of pre ECT yrs are gone for good. Your behavior during and for months after is goofy to say the least - it caused such anguish and worry in my family that my son who was a senior at Yale almost had to drop out - he was so flipped out by my bizarre behaviour. A lifelong reader of anything and everything - I still cannot process/understand/retain most of what I read. It's gone. I can't spell - I was an expert at it. ECT made me worse. It did not lift my depression and it has made me even more self conscious around people - even family - because I don't know if I am repeating myself, when past ocasions at which apparently I was present come up in conversation - I just nod and pretend - I often have no memory of the occasion. And I had this done 3 yrs ago!
> I am currrently going on Nardil tomorrow but am scared. I was on parnate for one month, was absolutely strict about the diet required and ended up in the ER anyway with high BP and a headache that was so bad I would have agreed to be put to sleep. Beware: most reg Docs, even ER, have little or no familiarity with this old class of drugs - another thing to worry about. The ER Doc went online to see how to treat me.
> ECT without insurance costs at least $30,000 in the US.
>
I agree with lady scruffe. I had ECT too and have the same problems. I had unilateral, but the seizure is over all the brain. I had 7 treatments over a year ago. I am still disoriented and have to use GPS to get around familiar places. I also can't read and process and understand and retain what I read, and now my math and spelling is atrocous. I used to be an advanced math student, and now I have to use my fingers to add and subtract. I can't spell anymore, and I still have word finding difficulties. I was depressed after and am now to but to a lesser extent. I take Parnate now, and it takes the edge off things. I am careful about diet. Hypertensive crisis is no fun and can be deadly. Keep to the diet.
Posted by BGB on May 18, 2008, at 2:13:57
In reply to How much does ECT cost?, posted by SalArmy4me on March 19, 2001, at 10:47:19
I know your pain, and I think I'm at the end of my rope, too. It's pretty freakin' scary to me that I am thinking so seriously about ECT, knowing the possible consequences.
Honestly, I guess that just speaks to just how sick I am. I kind of feel like my options are suicide or ECT. I must be crazy to want someone to electrocute my brain. But I would hate to think that I was ruining someone's life by offing myself.
Bipolar sucks. Especially during the deep, dark depressions.
Posted by blueboy on May 21, 2008, at 7:13:36
In reply to Re: How much does ECT cost? » SalArmy4me, posted by BGB on May 18, 2008, at 2:13:57
There is some risk to ECT. I haven't had it, but I was considering it and read a lot of the research.
Unfortunately, both the solid research and the protocols for the procedure are not as extensive as one would hope. You have a few very vocal people who say that it ruined their minds. You have the APA and numerous psychiatrists who swear that the cognitive impairment is almost always temporary and mild to moderate.
All I can tell you is my own take. I would have it rather than commit suicide. I also believe that it is the most effective means of controlling depression.
Be extremely careful to get a good center that does a lot of it, using sine wave and unilateral shock.
Also, please check the advice at the end of my long post yesterday. I'd get a second, specialist expert opinion about my diagnosis and possible medication options.
There are also a growing number of other mechanical therapies. Magnetic brain stimulation, which sounds ridiculous, apparently has some actual merit. Vagus nerve stimulation, I don't know anything about. Deep brain electrode stimulation, while it must be hugely expensive and invasive, appears to be very successful
My pdoc, who is a decent guy and tries to be honest with me, said he has a patient with difficult, treatment-resistant depression who just had enormous success with ECT. Full remission of symptoms and the guy is ready to go back to work (he's a nurse, so obviously his memory is functioning well if he can work).
I hope you won't do the suicide thing. As you say, aside from the obvious downside, it really does mess up everyone else.
Posted by Jeroen on May 25, 2008, at 3:09:49
In reply to Re: How much does ECT cost?, posted by blueboy on May 21, 2008, at 7:13:36
$15 in electricity for brain damage and memory loss
$300 for the therapy so good profit for the clinic no??
Posted by liza05342 on May 27, 2008, at 23:56:42
In reply to Re: How much does ECT cost?, posted by blueboy on May 21, 2008, at 7:13:36
I had both unilateral and bilateral ect. I feel that it caused more problems than it helped. My memory did not come back,I still get aganizing headaches and would rather be depressed than go thru that hell again. My memory and concentration were not the same after and I was in a very deep depression, my regular Pchyc dr. had me stop it and thru his help and other meds I got better. Think twice before having it done and also the depression comes back.It is covered by insurance.I feel I lost more than I gained from it. Some people swear by it, but I would try all other options first and make sure if you do that the person doing it knows what they are doing after all it is your brain.
Posted by Jeroen on May 28, 2008, at 0:48:31
In reply to Re: How much does ECT cost?, posted by liza05342 on May 27, 2008, at 23:56:42
yea well, some people are dumb enough to call psychiatry a miracle science
its all about industrial money, no decent cures or treatments that last
This is the end of the thread.
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