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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bulldog2 on May 11, 2008, at 11:27:42
I saw an article on the internet that said imipramine prevents reuptake of dopamine in addition to ne and se. The article also said that this med affects the opoid system. Have never read this anywhere else. Any way of verifying these claims?
Posted by SLS on May 11, 2008, at 11:56:20
In reply to Does Imipramine Raise Dopamine?, posted by bulldog2 on May 11, 2008, at 11:27:42
> I saw an article on the internet that said imipramine prevents reuptake of dopamine in addition to ne and se. The article also said that this med affects the opoid system. Have never read this anywhere else. Any way of verifying these claims?
Around 1980, K. Fuxe et al. recorded their observation that imipramine inhibited the reuptake of dopamine in a biphasic manner. More dopamine collected at lower concentrations of imipramine.
- Scott
Posted by bulldog2 on May 11, 2008, at 12:41:44
In reply to Re: Does Imipramine Raise Dopamine?, posted by SLS on May 11, 2008, at 11:56:20
> > I saw an article on the internet that said imipramine prevents reuptake of dopamine in addition to ne and se. The article also said that this med affects the opoid system. Have never read this anywhere else. Any way of verifying these claims?
>
> Around 1980, K. Fuxe et al. recorded their observation that imipramine inhibited the reuptake of dopamine in a biphasic manner. More dopamine collected at lower concentrations of imipramine.
>
>
>
>
>
> - ScottWhat do you mean by biphasic manner? By lower concentrations do you mean at lower doses? Do all tricyclics do this or only imipramine?
Posted by SLS on May 11, 2008, at 14:34:16
In reply to Re: Does Imipramine Raise Dopamine?, posted by bulldog2 on May 11, 2008, at 12:41:44
> > > I saw an article on the internet that said imipramine prevents reuptake of dopamine in addition to ne and se. The article also said that this med affects the opoid system. Have never read this anywhere else. Any way of verifying these claims?
> > Around 1980, K. Fuxe et al. recorded their observation that imipramine inhibited the reuptake of dopamine in a biphasic manner. More dopamine collected at lower concentrations of imipramine.> What do you mean by biphasic manner? By lower concentrations do you mean at lower doses? Do all tricyclics do this or only imipramine?
Biphasic is sort of like a bell curve. As the concentrations of a TCA rise from zero, the slope of dopamine concentration ascends upwards until a certain threshold is reached, after which the dopamine concentrations descend despite continued escalation of TCA. Two problems come to mind.
First of all, the experiments were carried out in the absence of more modern and reliable measuring implements. The second thing is that no
attempt was made to equate the TCA concentration with a dosage for human use. Perhaps I just didn't see it. Unfortunately, I don't think I can find this study on Medline, although it was indexed in Excerpta Medica in the early 1980s. I think I have the numbers in an old notebook.Other TCAs tested by this investigative team produced similar results.
- Scott
Posted by bulldog2 on May 11, 2008, at 14:39:47
In reply to Re: Does Imipramine Raise Dopamine?, posted by SLS on May 11, 2008, at 14:34:16
> > > > I saw an article on the internet that said imipramine prevents reuptake of dopamine in addition to ne and se. The article also said that this med affects the opoid system. Have never read this anywhere else. Any way of verifying these claims?
>
>
> > > Around 1980, K. Fuxe et al. recorded their observation that imipramine inhibited the reuptake of dopamine in a biphasic manner. More dopamine collected at lower concentrations of imipramine.
>
> > What do you mean by biphasic manner? By lower concentrations do you mean at lower doses? Do all tricyclics do this or only imipramine?
>
> Biphasic is sort of like a bell curve. As the concentrations of a TCA rise from zero, the slope of dopamine concentration ascends upwards until a certain threshold is reached, after which the dopamine concentrations descend despite continued escalation of TCA. Two problems come to mind.
> First of all, the experiments were carried out in the absence of more modern and reliable measuring implements. The second thing is that no
> attempt was made to equate the TCA concentration with a dosage for human use. Perhaps I just didn't see it. Unfortunately, I don't think I can find this study on Medline, although it was indexed in Excerpta Medica in the early 1980s. I think I have the numbers in an old notebook.
>
> Other TCAs tested by this investigative team produced similar results.
>
>
>
> - Scott
>Interesting study. You would think that the dose that would produce max dopamine reuptake blockade would give the best AD response.
Posted by undopaminergic on May 11, 2008, at 16:36:09
In reply to Re: Does Imipramine Raise Dopamine?, posted by bulldog2 on May 11, 2008, at 14:39:47
If one wanted triple monoamine (dopamine, noradrenaline and serotonin) reuptake inhibiton, one might simply use methylphenidate with sertraline. Or an extended release (XR) formulation of the triple-reuptake inhibitor cocaine.
As a matter of fact, I'm currently on the triple-reuptake combination of methylphenidate (MPH) and escitalopram. Memantine does more to counter the parkinsonian motor side effects of the SSRI than MPH, but MPH is more effective for amotivation and alertness.
Posted by bulldog2 on May 11, 2008, at 17:05:39
In reply to Re: Does Imipramine Raise Dopamine?, posted by undopaminergic on May 11, 2008, at 16:36:09
> If one wanted triple monoamine (dopamine, noradrenaline and serotonin) reuptake inhibiton, one might simply use methylphenidate with sertraline. Or an extended release (XR) formulation of the triple-reuptake inhibitor cocaine.
>
> As a matter of fact, I'm currently on the triple-reuptake combination of methylphenidate (MPH) and escitalopram. Memantine does more to counter the parkinsonian motor side effects of the SSRI than MPH, but MPH is more effective for amotivation and alertness.Excellent ideas!
Posted by bulldog2 on May 11, 2008, at 18:03:06
In reply to Re: Does Imipramine Raise Dopamine?, posted by undopaminergic on May 11, 2008, at 16:36:09
> If one wanted triple monoamine (dopamine, noradrenaline and serotonin) reuptake inhibiton, one might simply use methylphenidate with sertraline. Or an extended release (XR) formulation of the triple-reuptake inhibitor cocaine.
>
> As a matter of fact, I'm currently on the triple-reuptake combination of methylphenidate (MPH) and escitalopram. Memantine does more to counter the parkinsonian motor side effects of the SSRI than MPH, but MPH is more effective for amotivation and alertness.Shame I couldn't tolerate the memantine as it had possibilities. Terrible headaches at just 5 milligrams! Wonder if it's worth trying 2.5 milligrams?
Posted by undopaminergic on May 11, 2008, at 18:38:55
In reply to Re: Does Imipramine Raise Dopamine?, posted by bulldog2 on May 11, 2008, at 18:03:06
>
> Shame I couldn't tolerate the memantine as it had possibilities. Terrible headaches at just 5 milligrams! Wonder if it's worth trying 2.5 milligrams?
>Yes, especially as you seem to be highly sensitive to it, a low dose may be sufficient to produce useful effects. Also, some side effects may disappear on continued usage. Yet another point to consider is that high doses can have analgesic effects, and moreover, tolerance to opioids is antagonised - possibly, their effects may also be enhanced by memantine; this could potentially be exploited to control headache, e.g. with codeine.
This is the end of the thread.
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