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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on May 2, 2008, at 18:29:11
In my experience, 7.50mg of Deplin is too much. I do much better at 3.75mg. For me, there seems to be a therapeutic window. At some point, 7.50mg "pooped-out" on me. I had plateaued and lost some of the initial benefit I gleaned.
It might be that there are some people for whom 3.75mg (1/2 pill) is a more effective dosage than the 7.50mg recommended.
The build up of Deplin levels in the body appear to be time dependent and can take a month or more to arrive at an equilibrium. This could give the appearance of "poop-out" rather than exceeding the upper bounds of a therapeutic window.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on May 2, 2008, at 21:07:59
In reply to Deplin: Therapeutic Window, posted by SLS on May 2, 2008, at 18:29:11
I was under the impression that the 7.5mg with an Maoi was a good tx for you. What happened seriously? Love Phillipa
Posted by SLS on May 3, 2008, at 2:43:20
In reply to Re: Deplin: Therapeutic Window » SLS, posted by Phillipa on May 2, 2008, at 21:07:59
> I was under the impression that the 7.5mg with an Maoi was a good tx for you. What happened seriously? Love Phillipa
My improvement plateaued and deteriorated, so I began to suspect that the dosage of Deplin was too high. I was familiar with the pharmacokinetics of this drug, and it gave hint as to why it took so long to reach a state of overmedication. So far, so good. I'll feel more confident once this thing sticks for more than two weeks.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on May 3, 2008, at 13:41:51
In reply to Re: Deplin: Therapeutic Window, posted by SLS on May 3, 2008, at 2:43:20
I don't get it so does this mean that Deplin is good for people or not good? Phillipa
Posted by SLS on May 3, 2008, at 16:32:01
In reply to Re: Deplin: Therapeutic Window » SLS, posted by Phillipa on May 3, 2008, at 13:41:51
> I don't get it so does this mean that Deplin is good for people or not good? Phillipa
It would be premature of me to testify to the persistency with which Deplin will help me. However, I am feeling better at the lower dosage.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on May 3, 2008, at 19:23:45
In reply to Re: Deplin: Therapeutic Window, posted by SLS on May 3, 2008, at 16:32:01
Scott please keep us posted. Love Phillipa
Posted by 4WD on May 3, 2008, at 20:56:16
In reply to Re: Deplin: Therapeutic Window, posted by SLS on May 3, 2008, at 16:32:01
> > I don't get it so does this mean that Deplin is good for people or not good? Phillipa
>
> It would be premature of me to testify to the persistency with which Deplin will help me. However, I am feeling better at the lower dosage.
>
>
> - ScottPlease keep us posted, Scott. I am considering adding Deplin to the Nardil since I am still having some depression even after 8 1/2 weeks on Nardil 45mg. I can't raise the Nardil dose as my BP is too erratic as it is.
If I take a B-vitamin complex tablet, I will be more scared the rest of the day. Do you think Deplin would have the same effect?
Marsha
Posted by SLS on May 3, 2008, at 21:13:19
In reply to Re: Deplin: Therapeutic Window » SLS, posted by 4WD on May 3, 2008, at 20:56:16
> > > I don't get it so does this mean that Deplin is good for people or not good? Phillipa
> >
> > It would be premature of me to testify to the persistency with which Deplin will help me. However, I am feeling better at the lower dosage.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Please keep us posted, Scott. I am considering adding Deplin to the Nardil since I am still having some depression even after 8 1/2 weeks on Nardil 45mg. I can't raise the Nardil dose as my BP is too erratic as it is.I think you should give it a try. Just know that if you experience "poop-out" after doing well on it, it might indicate that you are actually taking too much.
As I posted elsewhere, I had a severe depressive reaction to methylcobalomin. I took 1mg of the sublingual formulation in the morning. By evening, I was suicidal. By 11:00pm, the depression began to mitigate. By morning, I was OK again. Because I had a similar reaction to Cerefolin, which contains methylcobalomin, I concluded that it was indeed the methylcobalomin that was responsible for it. I am taking a B-Complex vitamin that contains cyanocobalomin. It doesn't seem to be hurting me any.
> If I take a B-vitamin complex tablet, I will be more scared the rest of the day.
Are you saying that the B-Complex produces anxiety?
> Do you think Deplin would have the same effect?
No, I don't think it would. For me personally, I will not use MetanX, Cerefolin, or any supplement that contains methylcobalomin.
I know of two people who are doing better since adding Deplin to Nardil (one of them being me). My doctor has someone doing very well on Cymbalta + tryptophan + Deplin.
Be aware, though, that you might have to take Deplin for 2 months before you see results.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on May 3, 2008, at 21:23:21
In reply to Re: Deplin: Therapeutic Window » SLS, posted by 4WD on May 3, 2008, at 20:56:16
Marsha seriously used to take a B complex for years and was fine last few years anxiety sky high on B complex from Vitamshoppe. So no more for me. Phillipa
Posted by Bob on May 4, 2008, at 16:56:48
In reply to Deplin: Therapeutic Window, posted by SLS on May 2, 2008, at 18:29:11
I think I'm just about done with Deplin. It was very difficult to stay with it in the beginning, and then it seemed to have some benefits, so I put up with the negatives. I too did not do well on the full 7.5mg and went down to about a quarter of then. It seems now, though, that the benefits are fewer and fewer. It's been over three weeks and things are not getting better.
Posted by 4WD on May 4, 2008, at 20:15:10
In reply to Re: Deplin: Therapeutic Window » 4WD, posted by SLS on May 3, 2008, at 21:13:19
Thanks, Scott,
Yes, I am saying that taking a B complex in the morning makes me more scared all day.
I have printed out a copy of the Deplin home page to take to my pdoc next time I see him. Last times I mentioned it to him, he hadn't heard of it.
Marsha
Posted by chiron on May 4, 2008, at 23:02:24
In reply to Re: Deplin: Therapeutic Window » SLS, posted by 4WD on May 4, 2008, at 20:15:10
Marsha - that is weird about the B-Vitamins. Do you know if it is just certain one(s)? How immediate do you feel a reaction?
Do you have other anxiety problems? What meds do you take.
Sorry, it just is interesting to me.
Posted by henryo on May 4, 2008, at 23:31:12
In reply to Re: Deplin: Therapeutic Window » 4WD, posted by chiron on May 4, 2008, at 23:02:24
I love love love Deplin. Sorry to hear it isn't doing for some folks what it has done for me. All these ADs are so tricky.
Posted by Ron Hill on May 5, 2008, at 3:22:18
In reply to Deplin: Therapeutic Window, posted by SLS on May 2, 2008, at 18:29:11
FYI,
Pull up the following document and then examine Figure 1 and Figure 2.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/84/1/156#F1
The above link is to the full text HTML version of the document. Hopefully, everyone will be able to pull up the full text without a password to the site.
I'd like to hear your feedback regarding your interpretation of these graphed data.
-- Ron
Posted by Ron Hill on May 5, 2008, at 3:30:44
In reply to Graphs Support SLS' Deplin Therapeutic Window, posted by Ron Hill on May 5, 2008, at 3:22:18
Opps, I forgot to remind everyone that [6S]-5-methyltetrahydrofolate is the IUPAC name for L-methylfolate (i.e.; Deplin).
In other words, [6S]-5-methyltetrahydrofolate is just another name for Deplin.
-- Ron
--------------------------------------
> FYI,
>
> Pull up the following document and then examine Figure 1 and Figure 2.
>
> http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/84/1/156#F1
>
> The above link is to the full text HTML version of the document. Hopefully, everyone will be able to pull up the full text without a password to the site.
>
> I'd like to hear your feedback regarding your interpretation of these graphed data.
>
> -- Ron
>
>
Posted by SLS on May 5, 2008, at 4:51:22
In reply to Graphs Support SLS' Deplin Therapeutic Window, posted by Ron Hill on May 5, 2008, at 3:22:18
Posted by Ron Hill on May 5, 2008, at 8:46:40
In reply to Graphs Support Deplin Therapeutic Window - Thanks (nm) » Ron Hill, posted by SLS on May 5, 2008, at 4:51:22
Scott,
Based on the graphed data, perhaps a more descriptive terminology would be a "Moving Therapeutic Window". Whadda think?
Also, perhaps we should mention the caveat in the graphed data that you and I have previously discussed.
The caveat is that the graphed data are for red blood cell folate concentrations and plasma folate concentrations. Although these data should be indicative of the brain level folate values, they are not directly measured brain level folate concentrations.
-- Ron
Posted by 4WD on May 5, 2008, at 12:01:07
In reply to Re: Deplin: Therapeutic Window » 4WD, posted by chiron on May 4, 2008, at 23:02:24
> Marsha - that is weird about the B-Vitamins. Do you know if it is just certain one(s)? How immediate do you feel a reaction?
> Do you have other anxiety problems? What meds do you take.
> Sorry, it just is interesting to me.I don't know which particular ones cause it. It takes about a couple of hours before I start to feel more scared.
Yes, I have other anxiety problems. I have a severe anxiety disorder that keeps me physically scared a lot o the time. I am on benzos for it but they don't always help much.
I used to take a Bcomplex every day. It's only since I developed the anxiety disorder that I can't take them. I do take a multivitamin at bedtime (which includes b vitamins) so I sleep through the increased scaredness. It's not typical anxiety where I worry about stuff. It's physical - like someone in the face of something they are phobic about. I'm not scared of anything I'm just scared and I don't know why.
Marsha
Posted by SLS on May 5, 2008, at 15:27:26
In reply to Re: Deplin: Therapeutic Window » chiron, posted by 4WD on May 5, 2008, at 12:01:07
> Yes, I have other anxiety problems. I have a severe anxiety disorder that keeps me physically scared a lot o the time. I am on benzos for it but they don't always help much.
What about L-Theonine?
- Scott
Posted by iforgotmypassword on May 5, 2008, at 20:26:22
In reply to Re: Deplin: Therapeutic Window » 4WD, posted by SLS on May 5, 2008, at 15:27:26
too little, lack of response? (presumably.)
too much, a relapse, but feels any different from "lack of response"?
are the sides of the therapeutic window able to be differentiated between?
sorry for incoherence.
Posted by 4WD on May 5, 2008, at 20:35:55
In reply to Re: Deplin: Therapeutic Window » 4WD, posted by SLS on May 5, 2008, at 15:27:26
> > Yes, I have other anxiety problems. I have a severe anxiety disorder that keeps me physically scared a lot o the time. I am on benzos for it but they don't always help much.
>
> What about L-Theonine?
>
>
> - ScottNever heard of it. What does it do?
Marsha
Posted by SLS on May 6, 2008, at 4:18:19
In reply to Re: Deplin: Therapeutic Window » SLS, posted by 4WD on May 5, 2008, at 20:35:55
Hi Marsha.
> > > Yes, I have other anxiety problems. I have a severe anxiety disorder that keeps me physically scared a lot o the time. I am on benzos for it but they don't always help much.
> >
> > What about L-Theonine?
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Never heard of it. What does it do?
>
It seems that for some people, it works wonders at reducing anxiety. I know a woman who found it remarkably effective, and after months of taking it, shows no sign of tolerance or a reduction in efficacy.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 6, 2008, at 4:26:16
In reply to does too much and too little feel similar? » SLS, posted by iforgotmypassword on May 5, 2008, at 20:26:22
> too little, lack of response? (presumably.)
>
> too much, a relapse, but feels any different from "lack of response"?
>
> are the sides of the therapeutic window able to be differentiated between?
>
> sorry for incoherence.Your questions are very, VERY coherent and relevant. When I was at the higher dosage, I felt fatigued and sleepy and mentally dull. It does, however, feel very much different from a relapse into depression. You can easily tell them apart.
I relapsed yesterday after being at 3.75mg for three days. Within a few hours of taking an additional 7.50mg, I recovered quite nicely. My next experiment is to double the dosage (15.00mg). I have my suspicions that I will do better at the higher dosage. As long as I can tolerate the dosage, I'll stay there for a little while. I hope to have good news within a week of the increase. I'll probably give it a shot towards the end of the week. I don't want to accidentally make things worse while taking my final exam.
- Scott
Posted by undopaminergic on May 6, 2008, at 21:24:33
In reply to Re: Deplin: Therapeutic Window » SLS, posted by 4WD on May 5, 2008, at 20:35:55
> > > Yes, I have other anxiety problems. I have a severe anxiety disorder that keeps me physically scared a lot o the time. I am on benzos for it but they don't always help much.
> >
> > What about L-Theonine?
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Never heard of it. What does it do?
>
> MarshaI think he means L-theanine (not theonine), which is an amino acid found in tea leaves. It has definite sedative effects at higher doses (more than 1500 mg or so), while lower doses can enhance focus and quite possibly reduce anxiety.
It has been suggested that by modulating the effects of caffeine, theanine may account for some of the subjective differences between coffee and tea.
Posted by SLS on May 7, 2008, at 4:21:59
In reply to Re: Deplin: Therapeutic Window, posted by undopaminergic on May 6, 2008, at 21:24:33
This is the end of the thread.
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