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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by nikkimarie on April 11, 2008, at 15:06:09
I was on effexor xr 75mg/day. I no longer wanted to be on them. I began taking them because I had suffered from serious anxiety/depression. I was on them for three years. I started weening myself off of them at the end of january. I didn't experience much withdrawl. I felt great. However, recently, I've began to feel "loopy" again. Dizzy spurts, lightheaded, paranoia, working myself up. Is it possible to still be reacting from some sort of withdrawl from these meds two months later?
Posted by bleauberry on April 11, 2008, at 18:05:12
In reply to effexor withdrawl, posted by nikkimarie on April 11, 2008, at 15:06:09
> Is it possible to still be reacting from some >sort of withdrawl from these meds two months >later?
Yes.
I took me a full 3 months to find my true "baseline" after prozac was completely out of my system. And still I have never been the same. It is kind of like a mixture of the original problem along with new brain changes that the drugs did.The brain after 3 years of drug manipulation is not the same brain you started with. Might be worse, might be better, but it is not the same. Lots of changes and adaptations have happened in there, and no one knows if they are temporary or permanent. My doctor thinks they are permanent.
Critics of antidepressants say that the drugs change the brain in a way that it is dependent on the drug. Regardless of whether you feel better on the drug or not doesn't matter, only that the brain now relies on the drug, kind of like a permanent addiction or dependence. There are people that clearly demonstrate this effect, but there are also people that have stopped drugs and somehow returned to something fairly normal. Personally I think it has a lot to do with personal genetic codes. No one is the same.
Assuming all is well in the brain and no permanent changes or damages have happened, yes it is in my opinion a likely scenario to experience post-drug withdrawals even two months later, even 6 months later. The brain, glands, receptors, and hormones are trying to rebalance and readjust.
Posted by CamW on April 11, 2008, at 23:04:47
In reply to effexor withdrawl, posted by nikkimarie on April 11, 2008, at 15:06:09
nikkimarie - While I am not 100% certain, and from my experience, I'd say that the dizziness and lightheaded feeling could possibly be due to a virus.
Another guess would be dehydration. Some people experience dehydration during withdrawl and mistakenly ascribe the symptoms to drug. I have seen it a couple times.
If you have not experienced these symptoms during withdrawl, it is unlikely that they'd show up 2 months later.
One thing that you should rule out is that the symptoms are not the beginning of a relapse of the anxiety and depression. How has your mood been recently? Any recent stressors?
Let me know how it's going,and hope tat this is of some help.
- Cam
Posted by nikkimarie on April 12, 2008, at 0:41:26
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawl » nikkimarie, posted by CamW on April 11, 2008, at 23:04:47
Cam-
When you say "virus" what do you mean? I've had a headache for a couple of days, and I've been getting a random pain through my ear, and now just today, my right gland is sore, almost like when I get strep throat or something. I was thinking maybe I am getting an ear infection or maybe the flu, cause I know that has been going around.
Also, a week and a half ago, I had an abcess tooth pulled. So, I've been getting myself nervous, thinking maybe the infection from my tooth is now in my gum since it was pulled?
Of course all of these thoughts come pulsating through my head, and the paranoia just worsens.
As for my attitude, I've noticed since being off effexor, I have a very short temper and I get very worked up, so even little things have been really stressing me out, and for no reason.Ugh, I just need answers, and I don't want to talk to my doc, simply because I don't want her to push me to get back on meds.
Posted by undopaminergic on April 12, 2008, at 22:27:06
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawl, posted by bleauberry on April 11, 2008, at 18:05:12
>
> I took me a full 3 months to find my true "baseline" after prozac was completely out of my system.
>Prozac (fluoxetine) is a little special, as it has active metabolites that last very long. In this respect, Effexor is decidedly different.
>
> The brain after 3 years of drug manipulation is not the same brain you started with. Might be worse, might be better, but it is not the same. Lots of changes and adaptations have happened in there, and no one knows if they are temporary or permanent. My doctor thinks they are permanent.
>That is quite possible, and the potential implications are an interesting topic. I've had permanent changes from reboxetine - before taking it, I was sensitive to criticism and to negative feelings such as guilt and worthlessness. Now, I'm emotionally detached or blunted, and almost impossible to touch or upset; I no longer feel guilt, and have an almost narcissistic sense of self-importance. So far so good, but I'm wondering if there may be negative sides of the change - perhaps the emotional blunting is also responsible for some of the anhedonia, lack of motivation, or other problems.
Posted by CamW on April 13, 2008, at 10:52:26
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawl, posted by nikkimarie on April 12, 2008, at 0:41:26
nikkimare - By "virus" I was alluding to a spring cold, or something like that. Having an infected tooth pulled recently may have something to do with this. An opportunist infection can take advantage of a preoccupied immune system (that is busy trying to rid the body of the bacterial infection from the abscessed tooth).
Give it some time (approximately a week) and see if the symptoms resolve on their own.
When someone is properly weaned from Effexor XR (venlafaxine), as you were, I have seldom seen them having continuing problems that can be attributed to the Effexor XR. I am not saying that the Effexor XR is causing the symptoms that you are experiencing, but it is not very likely (in my opinion).
Hope that ths is of some help. - Cam
Posted by 49er on April 13, 2008, at 16:19:59
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawl » nikkimarie, posted by CamW on April 13, 2008, at 10:52:26
> nikkimare - By "virus" I was alluding to a spring cold, or something like that. Having an infected tooth pulled recently may have something to do with this. An opportunist infection can take advantage of a preoccupied immune system (that is busy trying to rid the body of the bacterial infection from the abscessed tooth).
>
> Give it some time (approximately a week) and see if the symptoms resolve on their own.
>
> When someone is properly weaned from Effexor XR (venlafaxine), as you were, I have seldom seen them having continuing problems that can be attributed to the Effexor XR. I am not saying that the Effexor XR is causing the symptoms that you are experiencing, but it is not very likely (in my opinion).
>
> Hope that ths is of some help. - CamCam,
With all due respect, I think people in your profession, are not up to date on the issue of withdrawal. You might want to visit Paxil Progress Boards, which is run by an RN, Laurie Yorke. Her son became psychotic during Paxil withdrawal due to a way too fast tapering schedule, Now that he is off the med, he is fine although he still has lingering physical problems.
The first problem is that in my opinion,doctors advocate a way too fast tapering schedule. The Paxil Progress Boards recommend a 10% reduction of current dose every 3 to 6 months.
Of course, the logistics of doing that aren't easy but it can be done with creative problem solving. Alot of us, including me, are using a digitial jewelry scale to meaure our doses and it is working well.
Unfortunately, not all meds lends itself to that but that is another discussion for another day.
The 2nd issue is that withdrawal last alot longer than 2 months, particularly if you tapered too quickly which I feel that most doctors do with their patients. By the way, I say that not because I think they have bad intentions. just so people know I am not slamming them.
People on the Paxil Progress Boards have reported symptoms for months.
Also, it is possible to feel fine for months and then all of a sudden have withdrawal symptoms that didn't previously exist. People on the Paxil Progress Boards have reported this happens like around 10 months.
Of course, that does not make for a double binded scientific study. But Cam, you don't have any more evidence that withdrawal ends at 2 months in my opinion.
I will end with a quote from Laurie when she said that we are the long term studies but no one is collecting the data. I challenge you and your colleagues to change that. People's lives depend on it.
49er
Posted by 49er on April 13, 2008, at 16:22:10
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawl » CamW, posted by 49er on April 13, 2008, at 16:19:59
Hi,
I meant to say taper every 3 to 6 weeks. Sorry about that.
Posted by undopaminergic on April 15, 2008, at 0:21:11
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawl » CamW, posted by 49er on April 13, 2008, at 16:19:59
>
> The first problem is that in my opinion,doctors advocate a way too fast tapering schedule. The Paxil Progress Boards recommend a 10% reduction of current dose every 3 to 6 [weeks] (Ed.).
>That may be appropriate for some people. For some (e.g. me), abrupt cessation ("cold turkey") is the best. For the rest, something in between would be better. In other words, the rate of withdrawal should be individualised.
> The 2nd issue is that withdrawal last alot longer than 2 months,
>It might, or there may be no withdrawal whatsoever.
>
> Also, it is possible to feel fine for months and then all of a sudden have withdrawal symptoms that didn't previously exist.
>That's probably not withdrawal symptoms, at least not in the case of a drug with a half-live similar to Paxil and Effexor, as it would have been out of the body for a long time at that point. Withdrawal symptoms occur in response to withdrawal of a drug (decreasing tissue concentrations), so it makes no sense that withdrawal symptoms would appear out of the blue after the drug has been out of the body for weeks or months. It's possible that long-lasting changes induced by the drug may be a contributing factor in symptoms appearing long after the drug is stopped, but that would not be withdrawal symptoms.
This is the end of the thread.
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