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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Nardilstarted2007 on February 9, 2008, at 7:05:22
Fellow and Faithful MAOI users:
Since MAOI's are in the same class can't we switch them to equivalent dosages right away. I'm not very sensitive to AD's (that sucks eh! lol) I've hit the 4 month mark on Nardil and its doing pretty good except anorgasmia. libido and blood flow is all ready for take off but thats it. Since Nardil and Parnate Work similar shouldn't it be fine to just switch. I HATE tapering. If I miss 24 hours of taking my Nardil I get bad discontinuation ASAP. I mostly just feel the Seratonin withdrawl, its as fast as effexor withdrawl kick in. Maybe My body just creates new MAO WAY quicker then others. They say 10 days weeks. Not for me. I Never Titrated Nardil to 90, just began at 75 then one day doc said try 90. And I got the same same SE's as everyone else but it just worked faster. SSRI, SNRIS, or anything to do with seratonin, if I can switch to an equivalent that will Keep the same amount of neuros (esp. SE) in the synaptic, I'm Fine. I dont feel NE OR DA witdrawl. I'm just thinking that in a month or two I will switch to Parnate at an Eqivalent dose to Nardil 90. So My last day of Nardil would be 75 Mg's, Then the next day I would go strait to 60mgs of Parnate. What do people think about this issue that they are in the same family of meds. It is again a innapropriate way to switch MAOI's But the 14 day washout rule is as old as the diet sheet and drug itself, 50 yrs. They'r the same family, and I have Tranquilizers that I take too just incase I feel a GABA withdrawl from the Nardil. I will know soooo quickly if the dosages are near equvalency by feeling the withdrawl of seratonin. If I feel none, I may go down slowly. If I feel SE withdrawl I'll go up in Mg's quickly till theyre gone so i dont loose the AD timeframe before it takes time to work again. like I say Im really not sensitive, and Ive been around the block in the last 5 years. When Im off an AD or Tapering off, BYE BYE EVERYTHING ie. school, work, family, friends, hobbies etc. I Get completely agoraphobic and paranoid. So its not worth it for me to Titrate at all these meds as they say just for side effect reasons. I can feel when the dosage is right or wrong and I quickly work on tuning it right there. That is something you cant do if you have titrted. No Titration = you have a couple days (Max 2 for me) to get the new med to give the equivalet neurotransmitter(s). I just follow my feeling of SE since within the 48 hour period I have enough time to adjust the new med so the withdrwal symptoms arn't felt. This way you dont loose the theraputic benefit.. I wonder if the new lots of Nardill will be better, #7115002,#7115003 and a new one in march is coming too. Im in Canada and would love to try Marplan... Can I import it some how from Usa? or somewhere
so
1. 50 years later is it now safe to switch MAOI meds without washout? (same family), ssri types are eazy as pie for me I just make sure the new med doesnt make me feel SE withdrawl so I raise it until its just perfect. then after that I'll slowly raise it to try and get the new med trial working.. well I never had to do a washout with ssri types but none of them ever worked, yep and I mean all, except I didnt try Cymbalta or remeron.. well I have Anxiety Dis. not depression so I figured they hell withem. maybe one day, for now I'll keep to the MAOI's
2. How could I get Marplan in Canada?
3. Oh ya so any new mericles on beeting anorgasmia on Nardil..? Thats why I'll wait another month or two to see if it improves.May all your struggles lead you to a good med that you are happy with and works for a long time.
Sincerely Yours'
Nardilstarter2007
May all your struggles lead you to a good med that you are happy with and works for a long time.
PS. If you didnt quite get all what i was saying, paraphrase me... im just tired and havent slept and i worked tonight and I read alot of Psychobable.
Posted by Justherself54 on February 9, 2008, at 8:14:47
In reply to MAOI MASTERS! washout? (Nardil)Parnate)Marplan), posted by Nardilstarted2007 on February 9, 2008, at 7:05:22
Are you hoping for less side effects from Parnate? I find Nardil has way less side effects that Parnate, for me anyway..when we had the nardil shortage my pdoc mentioned having to go on parnate until nardil became available, but I'm sure I've read somewhere that shouldn't be done..I'm a newbie at MAOI's so I'm sure there will be more experienced posters who will give you advice..
Posted by ny2bk on February 9, 2008, at 23:25:22
In reply to MAOI MASTERS! washout? (Nardil)Parnate)Marplan), posted by Nardilstarted2007 on February 9, 2008, at 7:05:22
I posted a document actualy,where in a small controlled setting Nardil was actualy used as pre treatment to parnate,the patient was started on Nardil,and after i forget the time lentgh was quickly removed and started on parnate.
The thinking although they are both maois,they work differently,and i suppose the gabe increase to the dopamine effect of parnate was possably a aim.
Anyway the small group did very well.Obviously there was no washout.
Posted by tecknohed on February 10, 2008, at 10:05:02
In reply to MAOI MASTERS! washout? (Nardil)Parnate)Marplan), posted by Nardilstarted2007 on February 9, 2008, at 7:05:22
I think you should be patient mate. You're doing good with Nardil- dont f*** it up now! Anorgasmia should go soon. If not then take something for it. Horney goat weed works & so can bethanechol+ another med (I forgot which one). I'll try to find the thread.
teck
Posted by tecknohed on February 10, 2008, at 17:00:19
In reply to MAOI MASTERS! washout? (Nardil)Parnate)Marplan), posted by Nardilstarted2007 on February 9, 2008, at 7:05:22
I remember now. The combo is cyproheptadine + bethanechol. Cyproheptadine is a 5-HT2 receptor antagonist & antihistamine (sedating so take it at night) & its even used in serotonin syndrome, whilst bethanechol is used for urinary retention, another Nardil side effect.
Ask your pdoc about it.
teck
Posted by Nardilstarted2007 on February 10, 2008, at 20:37:29
In reply to Re: MAOI MASTERS! washout? (Nardil)Parnate)Marpla » Nardilstarted2007, posted by tecknohed on February 10, 2008, at 17:00:19
> I remember now. The combo is cyproheptadine + bethanechol. Cyproheptadine is a 5-HT2 receptor antagonist & antihistamine (sedating so take it at night) & its even used in serotonin syndrome, whilst bethanechol is used for urinary retention, another Nardil side effect.
>
> Ask your pdoc about it.
>
> teckThanks Teck, That is my big issue foresue. I'll give it some more time and try to find what your talking about and other stuff.. it sure is an issue that hasn't been solved. I'm quite severe in this way so I'm goig to get a move on here and reaseaech and try some things. I suppose what your suggested remedy would lower seratonin levels a bit? That would be sweet if you could find that previous post. in 1- 2 months I;ll see if Marplan is able to be switched quickly if I cant find an antidote, and research how it works and if I can get it to Canada, Nardilstarted2007
Posted by tecknohed on February 10, 2008, at 21:11:16
In reply to Re: MAOI MASTERS! washout? (Nardil)Parnate)Marpla » tecknohed, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on February 10, 2008, at 20:37:29
Dont forget, Horney goat weed works too! Get it here: http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=1644
teck
Posted by Nardilstarted2007 on February 13, 2008, at 12:05:34
In reply to Re: MAOI MASTERS! washout? (Nardil)Parnate)Marpla » Nardilstarted2007, posted by tecknohed on February 10, 2008, at 21:11:16
> Dont forget, Horney goat weed works too! Get it here: http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=1644
>
> teckHey Teck My bud wa taking it for bodybuilding so I've heard of it before. The container looks the same as his. I'l get some here in a supplement store if they have it. Sounds like Exactly What I'm Looking For ...... I'll Let You Know. Any Idea how long it takes for the stuff to kick in?
Posted by Nardilstarted2007 on February 13, 2008, at 13:08:59
In reply to Re: MAOI MASTERS! washout? (Nardil)Parnate)Marpla » tecknohed, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on February 13, 2008, at 12:05:34
ahey, I'm going to start a post on Horney Goat Weed to see if others have more info or haven't read this thread...... Keep posting for other solution to anorgasmia if anyone hase found something, Cheers
Posted by Mickapoo on November 25, 2008, at 20:55:51
In reply to Re: MAOI MASTERS! washout? (Nardil)Parnate)Marpla » tecknohed, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on February 13, 2008, at 12:05:34
> > Dont forget, Horney goat weed works too! >
> Hey Teck Sounds like Exactly What I'm Looking For ...... I'll Let You Know. Any Idea how long it takes for the stuff to kick in?
>
>Did you ever take this and did it help?
Mickapoo
Posted by Mickapoo on January 2, 2009, at 22:05:10
In reply to Re: MAOI MASTERS! washout? (Nardil)Parnate)Marpla » Nardilstarted2007, posted by tecknohed on February 10, 2008, at 10:05:02
> I think you should be patient mate. You're doing good with Nardil- dont f*** it up now! Anorgasmia should go soon. If not then take something for it. Horney goat weed works & so can bethanechol+ another med (I forgot which one). I'll try to find the thread.
>
> teck
I tried Horny Goat Weed, and it did absolutely nothing for me. I also tried one that was mentioned a lot. Cyproheptadine? Something like that. It didn't work either! I just had to wait, and luckily in time, I was back to normal! Well, not normal exactly. It takes a little while longer, but at least it happens!
Posted by ParnateStarted2008 on January 3, 2009, at 20:53:02
In reply to MAOI MASTERS! washout? (Nardil)Parnate)Marplan), posted by Nardilstarted2007 on February 9, 2008, at 7:05:22
Hey guys im on Parnate and I'm getting the opposite effect.. its too easy. So damn its hard to keep your partner happy when your soo easily finished and theres nothing I can do about it. haha hard to believe its a downfall. its like I need something to deminish some libito..
Posted by JadeKelly on January 4, 2009, at 15:35:26
In reply to Re: MAOI MASTERS! washout? (Nardil)Parnate)Marplan) » Nardilstarted2007, posted by ParnateStarted2008 on January 3, 2009, at 20:53:02
> Hey guys im on Parnate and I'm getting the opposite effect.. its too easy. So damn its hard to keep your partner happy when your soo easily finished and theres nothing I can do about it. haha hard to believe its a downfall. its like I need something to deminish some libito..
Thanks for sharing! hahaha!
~Jade
Posted by ParnateStarted2008 on January 4, 2009, at 17:51:34
In reply to Re: MAOI MASTERS! washout? (Nardil)Parnate)Marplan) » ParnateStarted2008, posted by JadeKelly on January 4, 2009, at 15:35:26
> > Hey guys im on Parnate and I'm getting the opposite effect.. its too easy. So damn its hard to keep your partner happy when your soo easily finished and theres nothing I can do about it. haha hard to believe its a downfall. its like I need something to deminish some libito..
>
> Thanks for sharing! hahaha!
>
> ~JadeAnytime.. I'm half European eh, we dont worry about speaking our mind about that stuff. Many a naked beach in the south...
Posted by ParnateStarted2008 on January 4, 2009, at 18:27:04
In reply to Re: MAOI MASTERS! washout? (Nardil)Parnate)Marplan) » ParnateStarted2008, posted by JadeKelly on January 4, 2009, at 15:35:26
> > Hey guys im on Parnate and I'm getting the opposite effect.. its too easy. So damn its hard to keep your partner happy when your soo easily finished and theres nothing I can do about it. haha hard to believe its a downfall. its like I need something to deminish some libito..
>
> Thanks for sharing! hahaha!
>
> ~Jadeand:
Parnate> - doesnt work AS well on anxiety (for me & most), restores more emotions+interest+energy, weight neutral or even loose weight, and can be libito friendly or enhancing. I would say that really is a fair sign to go ahead and say DA/(epinephrine) gets hit alot harder with Parnate than Nardil. NArdil> -has the weight gain, better rep on anxiety and more issues with libito as a whole which makes me believe SE gets hit alot harder with Nardil or at least SE is more in terms of ratio:other amines..
Just speculation, makes sense tho. oh my.
Posted by tecknohed on January 4, 2009, at 23:34:25
In reply to Re: MAOI MASTERS! washout? (Nardil)Parnate)Marpla, posted by Mickapoo on January 2, 2009, at 22:05:10
> > I think you should be patient mate. You're doing good with Nardil- dont f*** it up now! Anorgasmia should go soon. If not then take something for it. Horney goat weed works & so can bethanechol+ another med (I forgot which one). I'll try to find the thread.
> >
> > teck
>
>
> I tried Horny Goat Weed, and it did absolutely nothing for me. I also tried one that was mentioned a lot. Cyproheptadine? Something like that. It didn't work either! I just had to wait, and luckily in time, I was back to normal! Well, not normal exactly. It takes a little while longer, but at least it happens!
>Sorry my sugestions didn't work, but I'm glad you stuck with it. You're right, its not quite the same feelin, but hey you can last longer right? lol
HGW still helps me, though I am taking it with Marplan not Nardil. But then Marplan is an MAOI with just as bad pain-in-the-*ss anorgasmia.
One thing I have tried since is Yohimbine in 5 & 10mg doses. I take the top dose Marplan 60mg. 10mg Yohimbine was too much on my heart & gave me a hectic head, though nothingt was too bad that it felt dangerous. I choose to not take it anymore, BUT JEEZ DID IT WORK WELL! Best dose was 2.5mg (half a capsule).At that dose it was comfortably stimulating too, but just like any stimulant, daily usage just built tolerance. NOW IM NOT SUGESTING YOU TAKE YOHIMBINE. Just saying what i found.
I think of all the people who quit Nardil early because of anorgasmia. The drug can and usually will change peoples lives for the better (to varying degrees) sometimes in a very powerful way, if only we all had the patients, for what truly is a BAD side effect.. As long as it still helps the main problem then I'd honestly give it a full year before giving up.
teck
Posted by desolationrower on January 8, 2009, at 20:43:29
In reply to Re: MAOI MASTERS! washout? (Nardil)Parnate)Marpla » Mickapoo, posted by tecknohed on January 4, 2009, at 23:34:25
Hm, you took yohimbe with an MAOI? I haven't heard of anyone doing that before. DO you know the pills you took, were they standardized for an amount of yohimbine? I really liked it when i took it with citalopram but i haven't used it since i started on tranylcypromine. very interesting.
-d/r
Posted by Mickapoo on January 8, 2009, at 20:46:24
In reply to Re: MAOI MASTERS! washout? (Nardil)Parnate)Marplan) » Nardilstarted2007, posted by ParnateStarted2008 on January 3, 2009, at 20:53:02
> Hey guys im on Parnate and I'm getting the opposite effect.. its too easy. So damn its hard to keep your partner happy when your soo easily finished and theres nothing I can do about it. haha hard to believe its a downfall. its like I need something to deminish some libito..
Wow!! Now I REALLY want to try Parnate!!
Posted by Mickapoo on January 11, 2009, at 20:57:10
In reply to Re: MAOI MASTERS! washout? (Nardil)Parnate)Marpla » Mickapoo, posted by tecknohed on January 4, 2009, at 23:34:25
> > > I think you should be patient mate. You're doing good with Nardil- dont f*** it up now! Anorgasmia should go soon. If not then take something for it. Horney goat weed works & so can bethanechol+ another med (I forgot which one). I'll try to find the thread.
> > >
> > > teck
> >
> >
> > I tried Horny Goat Weed, and it did absolutely nothing for me. I also tried one that was mentioned a lot. Cyproheptadine? Something like that. It didn't work either! I just had to wait, and luckily in time, I was back to normal! Well, not normal exactly. It takes a little while longer, but at least it happens!
> >
>
> Sorry my sugestions didn't work, but I'm glad you stuck with it. You're right, its not quite the same feelin, but hey you can last longer right? lol
>
> HGW still helps me, though I am taking it with Marplan not Nardil. But then Marplan is an MAOI with just as bad pain-in-the-*ss anorgasmia.
>
> One thing I have tried since is Yohimbine in 5 & 10mg doses. I take the top dose Marplan 60mg. 10mg Yohimbine was too much on my heart & gave me a hectic head, though nothingt was too bad that it felt dangerous. I choose to not take it anymore, BUT JEEZ DID IT WORK WELL! Best dose was 2.5mg (half a capsule).At that dose it was comfortably stimulating too, but just like any stimulant, daily usage just built tolerance. NOW IM NOT SUGESTING YOU TAKE YOHIMBINE. Just saying what i found.
>
> I think of all the people who quit Nardil early because of anorgasmia. The drug can and usually will change peoples lives for the better (to varying degrees) sometimes in a very powerful way, if only we all had the patients, for what truly is a BAD side effect.. As long as it still helps the main problem then I'd honestly give it a full year before giving up.
>
>
> teckI don't want to last longer- I'm a girl! Want mine quickly! :) It still hasn't happened since that one time, but after 4 months, I was happy for at least that!
I've been wanting to switch to Parnate only because I have not seen any improvement with the Nardil. I wonder how long pDocs give you on the medication before switching you to something else?
Do you know how long you took HGW before you noticed a difference? I took just one bottle, and it wasn't helping so I did not continue it. I wonder if I gave it enough time. May have been a few weeks or so.
Posted by tecknohed on January 12, 2009, at 0:00:26
In reply to Re: MAOI MASTERS! washout? » tecknohed, posted by Mickapoo on January 11, 2009, at 20:57:10
> I don't want to last longer- I'm a girl! Want mine quickly! :) It still hasn't happened since that one time, but after 4 months, I was happy for at least that!
>
> I've been wanting to switch to Parnate only because I have not seen any improvement with the Nardil. I wonder how long pDocs give you on the medication before switching you to something else?
>
> Do you know how long you took HGW before you noticed a difference? I took just one bottle, and it wasn't helping so I did not continue it. I wonder if I gave it enough time. May have been a few weeks or so.OOPS! Didn't know you are female lol.
Same may apply though.
I allways buy mine in bulk powder form and normally start with 1g day for 1 week followed by 1/2g every day/other day to top up. Its standardized at 20% Icariin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icariin . Quite a potent dose compared to most capsules & mixtures.Just to make it clear, i didn't mean stay on Nardil for a year till it works, but rather if its ALLREADY working but you have anorgasmia give that side effect a good year to pass.
Hope you solve your problems soon,
teck
Posted by sissy35 on January 12, 2009, at 13:09:52
In reply to Re: MAOI MASTERS! washout? » tecknohed, posted by Mickapoo on January 11, 2009, at 20:57:10
I know how you feel I am also a female and found nothing that helped with anorgasmia. Did a lot of faking for my husbands sake. I only had one once in a blue moon, and when I did it wasnt that great. I am talking 20yrs of this. Very very frustrating. I wasn't on a large dose either just 30mg a day. But as I always say that was me.
Now on parnate I got back what I had been missing for 20yrs. But the other psoters have suggested things I never tried so I would do that first before switching.wish you luck
Sissy35
Posted by Mickapoo on January 12, 2009, at 16:40:17
In reply to Re: MAOI MASTERS! washout? » Mickapoo, posted by sissy35 on January 12, 2009, at 13:09:52
> I know how you feel I am also a female and found nothing that helped with anorgasmia. Did a lot of faking for my husbands sake. I only had one once in a blue moon, and when I did it wasnt that great. I am talking 20yrs of this. Very very frustrating. I wasn't on a large dose either just 30mg a day. But as I always say that was me.
> Now on parnate I got back what I had been missing for 20yrs. But the other psoters have suggested things I never tried so I would do that first before switching.
>
> wish you luck
> Sissy3520 years?? Wow! I probably wouldn't switch, if the Nardil was working, but because it isn't, so hopefully I can switch.
Posted by sissy35 on January 12, 2009, at 16:56:03
In reply to Re: MAOI MASTERS! washout? » sissy35, posted by Mickapoo on January 12, 2009, at 16:40:17
I have some personal views about nardil and they ain't good so I will not say them.
But try what they suggested and maybe it will work. Here is wishing you luck.Sissy35
This is the end of the thread.
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