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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Fivefires on February 5, 2008, at 10:46:39
After a horrid 'nervous system breakdown' in 2005, was put on diazepam 10mg 3x a day.
I felt great relief, but think I also felt a little too much fatigue/'no care' attitude. I was on it for about a year; 3 yrs ago.
I wanted to get out and live my life and just didn't have the 'umpf'!
So, I switched to Xanax.(?)
Recently (Began in Nov.) my body began to eat up Xanax like crazy! (Or, at least the generic I was on, which I brought to the attn of my pharmacy, but wasn't taken seriously.)
My anxiety was killing me. I got to 2mg qid!
I just dc'd Xanax last Thursday as it had either become ineffective, as stated above, or was paradoxing.I went back to Valium.
I wasn't titrated from one to another. Pharms disagreed on the need for this. Didn't even occur to pdoc.
I was put on Val 10mg 3x a day. It's been a really bad 4days. I was detoxing! This wasn't the plan. The plan was to decrease my anxiety.
I called him Friday eve and he said I could take one more in the evening.
Still detoxing. No doc to reach!
It has now come to my attn that their is a generic alprazolam out there that is very much like Xanax.
I plan call pdoc today and suggest go back to this brand alprazolam. (I found a place that carries it.)
U n l e s s, I learn something new here today.
Can any1 explain how these two differ? Or, might there be another one I shouldn't be discounting? Pls understand my anxiety is crippling me.
Is there a website w/ a chart about the strengths and half-lives and sorts of relief or the benzodiazepines?
Am I wrong in thinking alprazolam is less sedating than diazepam?
Orrrrr, should I be looking at lorazepam? (I've always thought of it as a young person's first choice .. one which isn't strong enough for 'a serious case' like mine.)
And, as for Klonopin, it was like a snake in the grass for me. I'm not bashing it. I just wasn't given the proper info about it when I was given it. (BTW, my pdoc will not allow me to be on two benzos.) It was dc'd just b4 breakdown in 2005 so guess I have bad feelings about it. It's cold turkeying was probably the main reason for the breakdown.
Or, is there another I should be looking to?
If any1 w/ benzodiazepine knowledge could respond w/ their views or point me to a good website, I would appreciate it very much.
tks, 5f
and: This morning I'm thinking, well I got through it, and it was prob' good to have an alprazolam vacation.
Posted by Fivefires on February 5, 2008, at 10:53:50
In reply to Pls share benzo knowledge. (No bashing pls.), posted by Fivefires on February 5, 2008, at 10:46:39
I tried to call Xanax alprazolam and Valium diazepam when posting about a generic, but obviously missed quite a few. My insurance does not cover brand name meds.
Sorry.
Tks, 5f
Posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2008, at 11:58:25
In reply to Re: Pls share benzo knowledge. (No bashing pls.), posted by Fivefires on February 5, 2008, at 10:53:50
Xanax is supposed to have a slight antidepression effect and you know I'll say greenstone. But a question what happened to lyrica didn't that help anxiety too? Love Phillipa
Posted by Phoenix1 on February 5, 2008, at 12:44:09
In reply to Pls share benzo knowledge. (No bashing pls.), posted by Fivefires on February 5, 2008, at 10:46:39
> After a horrid 'nervous system breakdown' in 2005, was put on diazepam 10mg 3x a day.
>
> I felt great relief, but think I also felt a little too much fatigue/'no care' attitude. I was on it for about a year; 3 yrs ago.
>
> I wanted to get out and live my life and just didn't have the 'umpf'!
>
> So, I switched to Xanax.(?)
>
> Recently (Began in Nov.) my body began to eat up Xanax like crazy! (Or, at least the generic I was on, which I brought to the attn of my pharmacy, but wasn't taken seriously.)
>
> My anxiety was killing me. I got to 2mg qid!
>
> I just dc'd Xanax last Thursday as it had either become ineffective, as stated above, or was paradoxing.
>
> I went back to Valium.
>
> I wasn't titrated from one to another. Pharms disagreed on the need for this. Didn't even occur to pdoc.
>
> I was put on Val 10mg 3x a day. It's been a really bad 4days. I was detoxing! This wasn't the plan. The plan was to decrease my anxiety.
>
> I called him Friday eve and he said I could take one more in the evening.
>
> Still detoxing. No doc to reach!
>
> It has now come to my attn that their is a generic alprazolam out there that is very much like Xanax.
>
> I plan call pdoc today and suggest go back to this brand alprazolam. (I found a place that carries it.)
>
> U n l e s s, I learn something new here today.
>
> Can any1 explain how these two differ? Or, might there be another one I shouldn't be discounting? Pls understand my anxiety is crippling me.
>
> Is there a website w/ a chart about the strengths and half-lives and sorts of relief or the benzodiazepines?
>
> Am I wrong in thinking alprazolam is less sedating than diazepam?
>
> Orrrrr, should I be looking at lorazepam? (I've always thought of it as a young person's first choice .. one which isn't strong enough for 'a serious case' like mine.)
>
> And, as for Klonopin, it was like a snake in the grass for me. I'm not bashing it. I just wasn't given the proper info about it when I was given it. (BTW, my pdoc will not allow me to be on two benzos.) It was dc'd just b4 breakdown in 2005 so guess I have bad feelings about it. It's cold turkeying was probably the main reason for the breakdown.
>
> Or, is there another I should be looking to?
>
> If any1 w/ benzodiazepine knowledge could respond w/ their views or point me to a good website, I would appreciate it very much.
>
> tks, 5f
>
> and: This morning I'm thinking, well I got through it, and it was prob' good to have an alprazolam vacation.Hi fivefires,
Sounds like maybe the generic alprazolam wasn't as good as brand name Xanax for you? And you can't go with brand name because your insurance doesn't cover it? I was going to suggest trying the extended release Xanax maybe.
Valium and Xanax are quite different. Valium tends to be more sedating than Xanax, and although it has a LONG half life, the sedating effects don't last as long as the half life indicates.
I think the biggest problem is that your dose of Valium is totally not bioequivalent to your old dose of Xanax. 8mg of xanax/day is equivalent to 160mg. (See http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm)
Here is the proper way to taper from Alprazolam to Diazepam: http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm#s7 Note this is only for alprazolam (xanax) 4mg, (you were on 8 mg if you were on 2mg qid) and the diazepam (Valium) dose is WAY WAY higher than what you are on now. No wonder you are in withdrawal!!!
Valium (diazepam) is the right drug to taper off of Alprazolam. You just need a much higher dose if you were actually using 8mg of alprazolam (Xanax) for an extended period.
PLEASE read the Aston Manual (http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm) and share it with your doctor. Ashton is a psychiatrist, psychopharmacologist, and has extensive experience discontinuing benzos humanely in her patients with much success. If you follow this procedure, you won't experience withdrawal symptoms such as you are right now.
I really hope this helps. I think it's pretty bad that you were switched from high dose alprazolam to low dose diazepam with no transition. This is bound to cause bad bad withdrawal, anxiety, sleeplessness, and could put you at risk of seizures. Please talk to your pdoc again, and show him the Ashton Manual.
I really hope this helps!
Phoenix
Posted by Phoenix1 on February 5, 2008, at 12:49:03
In reply to Re: Pls share benzo knowledge. (No bashing pls.) » Fivefires, posted by Phoenix1 on February 5, 2008, at 12:44:09
Meant to say 8mg of xanax is equivalent to 160mg of Valium (diazepam), technically. I'm not sure if any pdoc would prescribe this much Valium ever though... But 30mg is way way way too low to prevent withdrawal for you!
Posted by Abby Cunningham on February 5, 2008, at 16:36:52
In reply to Re: Pls share benzo knowledge. (No bashing pls.) » Phoenix1, posted by Phoenix1 on February 5, 2008, at 12:49:03
> Meant to say 8mg of xanax is equivalent to 160mg of Valium (diazepam), technically. I'm not sure if any pdoc would prescribe this much Valium ever though... But 30mg is way way way too low to prevent withdrawal for you!
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE - 5F YOU ARE IN FLORID WITHDRAWAL FROM BENZODIAZEPINE! YOUR DOCTOR IS TOTALLY IGNORANT OF THE EQUIVALENCIES. PLEASE GET YOURSELF ON AN EQUIVALENT DOSE SOMEHOW OR BETTER YET CROSSOVER FROM XANAX TO VALIUM BY STEPS, AS OUTLINED IN THE ASHTON MANUAL. GOOD LUCK AND SORRY YOU HAVE SUFFERED SO MUCH!
Posted by Fivefires on February 5, 2008, at 17:12:40
In reply to Re: Pls share benzo knowledge. (No bashing pls.) » Phoenix1, posted by Abby Cunningham on February 5, 2008, at 16:36:52
Hey it's 4p here. I fell asleep.
Called pdoc earlier after reading P1's first response.
I'm okay as far as I can tell. I've worried about seizures since Fri. nite.
I knew this was wrong, but no one would listen afa pharmacy, and no one will cover for my pdoc.
I so much appreciate support and education.
I'm relocat*ng to my old stompin' grounds in *empe (It's in another county!) March-15 and will have new pdoc by the end of next mo.
5f
Posted by Fivefires on February 5, 2008, at 21:11:55
In reply to Re: Pls share benzo knowledge. (No bashing pls.), posted by Fivefires on February 5, 2008, at 17:12:40
After leaving three messages w/ pdoc, I did not receive a call back. I'm so frustrated and feel so ... unimportant.
5f
Posted by Phillipa on February 6, 2008, at 18:20:30
In reply to Benzo knowledge, posted by Fivefires on February 5, 2008, at 21:11:55
I'm sorry Five Fires maybe he doesn't want to switch you or he hasn't had time ? Love Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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