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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Justherself54 on January 14, 2008, at 8:55:58
I always have had problems transposing letters when typing, but it has really gotten worse since starting Nardil..I'll think I've written a good email or post, but when I glance over it before sending I find a lot of errors..typing dripping instead of dropping, leaving the "s" off some words, typing work instead of word..it's annoying..as I'm a fast typist and there are usually just a few words I know I have to watch for, but this is something that's never happened before..
Had anyone else experienced the same thing?
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 14, 2008, at 9:36:05
In reply to Question for Nardilites, posted by Justherself54 on January 14, 2008, at 8:55:58
> I always have had problems transposing letters when typing, but it has really gotten worse since starting Nardil..I'll think I've written a good email or post, but when I glance over it before sending I find a lot of errors..typing dripping instead of dropping, leaving the "s" off some words, typing work instead of word..it's annoying..as I'm a fast typist and there are usually just a few words I know I have to watch for, but this is something that's never happened before..
>
> Had anyone else experienced the same thing?Justherself,
I've noticed something similar. Mostly I'm just completely MISSING letters while typing. But yes, I'm also just typing wrong words, mispelling, etc. I send in the area of 40 emails a day at work, and normally also consider myself to be a good typist.
On the plus side, I think my memory is better than pre-Nardil. I'm starting to have a better memory for what I've done or what I'm supposed to be doing. Unfortunately, I have a huge memory "black hole" from a couple of months ago when the depression peaked and I was overusing benzos. This makes me look a little inept at work because I just can't remember what I've done half the time...
Also, general clumsiness. Do you find yourself walking into doorframes or feeling a little "off kilter"? I do... ("Really, I'm not drunk, I don't even drink!")
Phoenix1
Posted by stargazer2 on January 14, 2008, at 11:32:39
In reply to Re: Question for Nardilites » Justherself54, posted by Phoenix1 on January 14, 2008, at 9:36:05
Hi fellow nardilites...The same for me, although I think my misspelling is related to a "sticky" keyboard, at least that is what I have been blaming lately.
Also, I have had increased clumbiness but I had that alot worse on Lamictal so I'm not sure what it is related to. I have feelings though of being off balance alot and something related to my meds must be impacting that. I always had very good balance before the last two years when my depression became unhinged again.
So between the typing on the computer and my clumbiness, it is all very new, but mentally I feel better, so I put up with alot of things that normally would bother me.
Lamictal actually made me fall down several times leading to a workup for MS and the neurologist looked at my meds and said it was probably from the Lamictal and he was right. My pdoc and I both missed it, but I was so out of it I missed alot then, big memory loss then too.
Stargazer
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 14, 2008, at 11:42:58
In reply to Re: Question for Nardilites/Justherself/Phoenix, posted by stargazer2 on January 14, 2008, at 11:32:39
> So between the typing on the computer and my clumbiness, it is all very new, but mentally I feel better, so I put up with alot of things that normally would bother me.
>Stargazer. I agree. We're putting up with some odd side effects (MUCh different than an SSRI wouldn't you say?), but it's all worth it if it is improving mood, depression!
Phoenix1
Posted by stargazer2 on January 14, 2008, at 13:27:50
In reply to Re: Question for Nardilites/Justherself/Phoenix » stargazer2, posted by Phoenix1 on January 14, 2008, at 11:42:58
Phoenix...it is different than the side effects of the SSRI's. The side effects with Nardil tend to be mostly physical (for me) but for some strange reason those are preferable to the mental effects of SSRI's where my mood was never better but physically I think I was. I was suicidal with one SSRI and my doctor said to increase the dose! Now that can't be good advice, can it?
Maybe because I can tolerate physical symptoms since all I had before were mental ones and those really feel like you can't change them without stopping the meds which I had to do many times. At least with weight gain, I force myself to eat better and exercise more. Those are better effects of a med if you can change your behavior.
It seems like I have more control over the physical SE's, except gas (although I haven't tried anything to remedy that yet)so it could be better perhaps. My dizziness or loss of balance I just force myself to slow down and watch where I am going, which seems like good advice anyway.
Did you know that the newer Nardil contains Simethicone? That is a medicine for gas. They must have added it to the newer Nardil since th previous version didn't have it. That means the incredible amount of gas I sometimes get would be worse than it is if this wasn't added. Now that is a nasty SE.
Stargazer
Posted by Justherself54 on January 14, 2008, at 15:31:06
In reply to Re: Question for Nardilites/Phoenix, posted by stargazer2 on January 14, 2008, at 13:27:50
I started a post but must not have hit the confirm button..I'm having balance issues too..but agree with Stargazer that I would rather feel physical side effects..I'm getting used to saying "sorry" as I bump into people in stores..
It's a strange feeling tho to watch as I type words incorrectly..
By the way Phoenix1, how's the increase going..anything new crop up..hoping to start my increase this week..supply willing..
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 14, 2008, at 15:56:45
In reply to Re: Question for Nardilites/Phoenix/Stargazer, posted by Justherself54 on January 14, 2008, at 15:31:06
> I started a post but must not have hit the confirm button..I'm having balance issues too..but agree with Stargazer that I would rather feel physical side effects..I'm getting used to saying "sorry" as I bump into people in stores..
>
> It's a strange feeling tho to watch as I type words incorrectly..
>
> By the way Phoenix1, how's the increase going..anything new crop up..hoping to start my increase this week..supply willing..Hi Justherself,
I'm still on 60mg for another 3 days, then to 75 for a week, then to 90, which is supposed to be my max.
Side effects are truly minor. Much more manageable than other AD's I've been on in the past. And the fact that the drug is ACTUALLY working makes me a bit more willing to put up with side effects. Probably the biggest side effect is bad, bad embarrassing gas. I can live with this, it's just embarrassing. Then there's the clumsy sort of drunk feeling which probably causes the typing irregularities. I'm sure I'd be sleeping horribly if I weren't so well medicated for sleep. And I still have an odd twitchy eyelid/scalp. My BP is lower than normal, but it is within the normal range as it was slightly high before. So that's a good side effect.
I think the Nardil reduces my daytime anxiety immensely, so I have just stopped taking Klonopin except as needed for particularly bad days. But it makes my depression worse, so I think I will ask for PRN Ativan instead.
And I'm ready to start reducing my sleep meds (or trying). So I will ask to go from 75mg of Seroquel to 50mg, but to keep the 7.5mg zopiclone as it is. Baby steps.
But the big news is that I'm feeling, on average, pretty great compared to just a month or two ago. To go from hospitalization just before Christmas to an almost complete remission in a little over a month is miraculous. This is not a placebo effect, Nardil works for me. It has powerfully killed my depression.
In the evenings, I find my depression and anxiety trying to crawl back in, but then I take my sleep meds, and feel OK in the morning. I hope the last 2 dose increases will kill the remainder of the depression (I like to think of it like an infection or a cancer)
I'm productive and motivated at work again for the first time in a long time. And I feel optimistic about life in general. It's really a 180 degree turn.
Anyways, sorry for the essay, but you DID ask how I was doing. I just feel so strongly about this med that I feel the need to tell other treatment resistant depressives what it has done for me. It may not be a miracle for everyone, but for now, it is certainly a miracle for me. I just hope hope hope things continue as they are right now.
Phewww... What a rant... And how are you doing Justherself? Side effects, improvement? Again, don't worry about supply issues, ERFA WILL help you. Increase your dose if you need to and feel ready. They told me not to avoid my next dose increase just because of the supply problem. They would supply directly to my pharmacy to facilitate the dose increase. What dose are you on now, and how high would you like to go? There is literature to suggest 1mg/kg is ideal.
Phoenix1
Posted by Justherself54 on January 14, 2008, at 18:48:30
In reply to Re: Question for Nardilites/Phoenix/Stargazer » Justherself54, posted by Phoenix1 on January 14, 2008, at 15:56:45
I'm so glad to hear you're doing so well..I'm doing much better now that the respiratory infection is almost cleared up..feeling the energy again..based on the 1/kg I should be taking 90 mg..I'm still at 45 but see my pdoc on Wednesday, so will discuss increasing..I agree with your statements about Nardil..it's nice to feel like "me" again, without the apathy that SSRI's gave me..
I've been off work for 2 years. If the next increase helps I may be able to start work hardening and get back to my job..wouldn't that be something..
Oh, and about the gas..I hear you..I don't know what can be done about it..but it's pretty bad! I've been eating lots of activia yogurt and that seems to help a bit..but I'll live with it and walking like a drunken sailor to feel alive again.
I'm almost back to the land of the living..I've even gone on 4 dates! You could hardly get me out of the house before October..Unbelievable results..
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 14, 2008, at 19:05:37
In reply to Re: Question for Nardilites/Phoenix1, posted by Justherself54 on January 14, 2008, at 18:48:30
> I'm so glad to hear you're doing so well..I'm doing much better now that the respiratory infection is almost cleared up..feeling the energy again..based on the 1/kg I should be taking 90 mg..I'm still at 45 but see my pdoc on Wednesday, so will discuss increasing..I agree with your statements about Nardil..it's nice to feel like "me" again, without the apathy that SSRI's gave me..
>
> I've been off work for 2 years. If the next increase helps I may be able to start work hardening and get back to my job..wouldn't that be something..
>
> Oh, and about the gas..I hear you..I don't know what can be done about it..but it's pretty bad! I've been eating lots of activia yogurt and that seems to help a bit..but I'll live with it and walking like a drunken sailor to feel alive again.
>
> I'm almost back to the land of the living..I've even gone on 4 dates! You could hardly get me out of the house before October..Unbelievable results..Glad you're feeling like "you" again. It's a great feeling isn't it? Also glad that I'm not alone with some of the weirder side-effects (gas, "drunkedness") How are you doing on your other meds? How is your sleep?
Is the yogurt OK? My pdoc told me no yogurt unless I made it myself (who the heck makes their own yogurt), and it was less than 5 days old. He's very restrictive on the diet. I would LOVE to eat yogurt again. No BP Problems?
BTW, I can babblemail you the lit that suggests 1mg/kg if you want to bring it to your pdoc. Let me know.
Anyways, Nardil buddy, we're both doing OK. Let's hope it stays that way.
Phoenix1
Posted by Justherself54 on January 15, 2008, at 11:35:02
In reply to Re: Question for Nardilites/Phoenix1 » Justherself54, posted by Phoenix1 on January 14, 2008, at 19:05:37
> > I'm so glad to hear you're doing so well..I'm doing much better now that the respiratory infection is almost cleared up..feeling the energy again..based on the 1/kg I should be taking 90 mg..I'm still at 45 but see my pdoc on Wednesday, so will discuss increasing..I agree with your statements about Nardil..it's nice to feel like "me" again, without the apathy that SSRI's gave me..
> >
> > I've been off work for 2 years. If the next increase helps I may be able to start work hardening and get back to my job..wouldn't that be something..
> >
> > Oh, and about the gas..I hear you..I don't know what can be done about it..but it's pretty bad! I've been eating lots of activia yogurt and that seems to help a bit..but I'll live with it and walking like a drunken sailor to feel alive again.
> >
> > I'm almost back to the land of the living..I've even gone on 4 dates! You could hardly get me out of the house before October..Unbelievable results..
>
> Glad you're feeling like "you" again. It's a great feeling isn't it? Also glad that I'm not alone with some of the weirder side-effects (gas, "drunkedness") How are you doing on your other meds? How is your sleep?
>
> Is the yogurt OK? My pdoc told me no yogurt unless I made it myself (who the heck makes their own yogurt), and it was less than 5 days old. He's very restrictive on the diet. I would LOVE to eat yogurt again. No BP Problems?
>
> BTW, I can babblemail you the lit that suggests 1mg/kg if you want to bring it to your pdoc. Let me know.
>
> Anyways, Nardil buddy, we're both doing OK. Let's hope it stays that way.
>
> Phoenix1I'm sure I read on this site you can eat yogurt as long as it's not near the expiry date. I eat it every night and haven't noticed any changes..also large amounts of chocolate and caffeine don't bother me either (although I'm gaining weight again cause I don't have a little bowl of yogurt, it's a big one as my craving for sweets is getting worse, and can satisfy my sweet tooth sometimes).
Finally my sleep is sooo much better after I went to 50 mg of seroquel and split another zopiclone in half and took one and a half..don't know if I should have done that, but it sure did the trick..
So Nardil buddy, I'll post after my pdoc appointment and yes if you could send that article, I'll show it to him. It will be interesting to see what he has to say.
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 15, 2008, at 12:57:28
In reply to Re: Question for Nardilites/Phoenix1, posted by Justherself54 on January 15, 2008, at 11:35:02
> > > I'm so glad to hear you're doing so well..I'm doing much better now that the respiratory infection is almost cleared up..feeling the energy again..based on the 1/kg I should be taking 90 mg..I'm still at 45 but see my pdoc on Wednesday, so will discuss increasing..I agree with your statements about Nardil..it's nice to feel like "me" again, without the apathy that SSRI's gave me..
> > >
> > > I've been off work for 2 years. If the next increase helps I may be able to start work hardening and get back to my job..wouldn't that be something..
> > >
> > > Oh, and about the gas..I hear you..I don't know what can be done about it..but it's pretty bad! I've been eating lots of activia yogurt and that seems to help a bit..but I'll live with it and walking like a drunken sailor to feel alive again.
> > >
> > > I'm almost back to the land of the living..I've even gone on 4 dates! You could hardly get me out of the house before October..Unbelievable results..
> >
> > Glad you're feeling like "you" again. It's a great feeling isn't it? Also glad that I'm not alone with some of the weirder side-effects (gas, "drunkedness") How are you doing on your other meds? How is your sleep?
> >
> > Is the yogurt OK? My pdoc told me no yogurt unless I made it myself (who the heck makes their own yogurt), and it was less than 5 days old. He's very restrictive on the diet. I would LOVE to eat yogurt again. No BP Problems?
> >
> > BTW, I can babblemail you the lit that suggests 1mg/kg if you want to bring it to your pdoc. Let me know.
> >
> > Anyways, Nardil buddy, we're both doing OK. Let's hope it stays that way.
> >
> > Phoenix1
>
> I'm sure I read on this site you can eat yogurt as long as it's not near the expiry date. I eat it every night and haven't noticed any changes..also large amounts of chocolate and caffeine don't bother me either (although I'm gaining weight again cause I don't have a little bowl of yogurt, it's a big one as my craving for sweets is getting worse, and can satisfy my sweet tooth sometimes).
>
> Finally my sleep is sooo much better after I went to 50 mg of seroquel and split another zopiclone in half and took one and a half..don't know if I should have done that, but it sure did the trick..
>
> So Nardil buddy, I'll post after my pdoc appointment and yes if you could send that article, I'll show it to him. It will be interesting to see what he has to say.
>
>Here's the best reference I have:
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/35/5/629
It's from a respected journal that your pdoc will recognize. Let me know how your pdoc appointment goes. Good luck and I hope it goes well! I have one on Thursday.
Phoenix1
Posted by Justherself54 on January 15, 2008, at 16:24:54
In reply to Re: Question for Nardilites/Phoenix1 » Justherself54, posted by Phoenix1 on January 15, 2008, at 12:57:28
If you google maoi diet in this site, you'll come up with a lot of updated dietary informaton..that's where I found that yogurt was safe to eat..yum
Posted by Jedi on January 16, 2008, at 2:25:19
In reply to Re: Question for Nardilites/Phoenix/Stargazer » Justherself54, posted by Phoenix1 on January 14, 2008, at 15:56:45
Hi Phoenix1,
Nardil can be an amazing med, especially for people with atypical depression and social anxiety. I find it pretty easy to put up with the side effects if something is working. There is nothing much worse than lying in a fetal position on the floor in total misery. I have been on 40+ combinations of antidepressants and nothing has even come close to Nardil. Sure, it would be nice not to have to take meds and more meds to control the side effects. But, you play the hand you were delt.When I first started Nardil, about eleven years ago; the drug kicked in after about four weeks at 75mg. It was like night and day. One day, hopeless despair; the next day, complete clarity. I initially started out with some euphoria or hypomania. Actually, that felt pretty good after years of misery. This side effect went away fairly quickly. Many people mistake the loss of hypomania with poop-out. But this is not the true antidepressant affect of the med.
I'm glad Nardil is working for you and Justherself.
Be Well,
Jedi
> Side effects are truly minor. Much more manageable than other AD's I've been on in the past. And the fact that the drug is ACTUALLY working makes me a bit more willing to put up with side effects. Probably the biggest side effect is bad, bad embarrassing gas. I can live with this, it's just embarrassing. Then there's the clumsy sort of drunk feeling which probably causes the typing irregularities. I'm sure I'd be sleeping horribly if I weren't so well medicated for sleep. And I still have an odd twitchy eyelid/scalp. My BP is lower than normal, but it is within the normal range as it was slightly high before. So that's a good side effect.
>
> I think the Nardil reduces my daytime anxiety immensely, so I have just stopped taking Klonopin except as needed for particularly bad days. But it makes my depression worse, so I think I will ask for PRN Ativan instead.
>
> And I'm ready to start reducing my sleep meds (or trying). So I will ask to go from 75mg of Seroquel to 50mg, but to keep the 7.5mg zopiclone as it is. Baby steps.
>
> But the big news is that I'm feeling, on average, pretty great compared to just a month or two ago. To go from hospitalization just before Christmas to an almost complete remission in a little over a month is miraculous. This is not a placebo effect, Nardil works for me. It has powerfully killed my depression.
>
> In the evenings, I find my depression and anxiety trying to crawl back in, but then I take my sleep meds, and feel OK in the morning. I hope the last 2 dose increases will kill the remainder of the depression (I like to think of it like an infection or a cancer)
>
> I'm productive and motivated at work again for the first time in a long time. And I feel optimistic about life in general. It's really a 180 degree turn.
>
> Anyways, sorry for the essay, but you DID ask how I was doing. I just feel so strongly about this med that I feel the need to tell other treatment resistant depressives what it has done for me. It may not be a miracle for everyone, but for now, it is certainly a miracle for me. I just hope hope hope things continue as they are right now.
>
> Phewww... What a rant... And how are you doing Justherself? Side effects, improvement? Again, don't worry about supply issues, ERFA WILL help you. Increase your dose if you need to and feel ready. They told me not to avoid my next dose increase just because of the supply problem. They would supply directly to my pharmacy to facilitate the dose increase. What dose are you on now, and how high would you like to go? There is literature to suggest 1mg/kg is ideal.
>
> Phoenix1
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 16, 2008, at 8:20:10
In reply to Re: Question for Nardilites/Phoenix/Stargazer » Phoenix1, posted by Jedi on January 16, 2008, at 2:25:19
> Hi Phoenix1,
> Nardil can be an amazing med, especially for people with atypical depression and social anxiety. I find it pretty easy to put up with the side effects if something is working. There is nothing much worse than lying in a fetal position on the floor in total misery. I have been on 40+ combinations of antidepressants and nothing has even come close to Nardil. Sure, it would be nice not to have to take meds and more meds to control the side effects. But, you play the hand you were delt.
>
> When I first started Nardil, about eleven years ago; the drug kicked in after about four weeks at 75mg. It was like night and day. One day, hopeless despair; the next day, complete clarity. I initially started out with some euphoria or hypomania. Actually, that felt pretty good after years of misery. This side effect went away fairly quickly. Many people mistake the loss of hypomania with poop-out. But this is not the true antidepressant affect of the med.
>
> I'm glad Nardil is working for you and Justherself.
> Be Well,
> Jedi
>
>
> > Side effects are truly minor. Much more manageable than other AD's I've been on in the past. And the fact that the drug is ACTUALLY working makes me a bit more willing to put up with side effects. Probably the biggest side effect is bad, bad embarrassing gas. I can live with this, it's just embarrassing. Then there's the clumsy sort of drunk feeling which probably causes the typing irregularities. I'm sure I'd be sleeping horribly if I weren't so well medicated for sleep. And I still have an odd twitchy eyelid/scalp. My BP is lower than normal, but it is within the normal range as it was slightly high before. So that's a good side effect.
> >
> > I think the Nardil reduces my daytime anxiety immensely, so I have just stopped taking Klonopin except as needed for particularly bad days. But it makes my depression worse, so I think I will ask for PRN Ativan instead.
> >
> > And I'm ready to start reducing my sleep meds (or trying). So I will ask to go from 75mg of Seroquel to 50mg, but to keep the 7.5mg zopiclone as it is. Baby steps.
> >
> > But the big news is that I'm feeling, on average, pretty great compared to just a month or two ago. To go from hospitalization just before Christmas to an almost complete remission in a little over a month is miraculous. This is not a placebo effect, Nardil works for me. It has powerfully killed my depression.
> >
> > In the evenings, I find my depression and anxiety trying to crawl back in, but then I take my sleep meds, and feel OK in the morning. I hope the last 2 dose increases will kill the remainder of the depression (I like to think of it like an infection or a cancer)
> >
> > I'm productive and motivated at work again for the first time in a long time. And I feel optimistic about life in general. It's really a 180 degree turn.
> >
> > Anyways, sorry for the essay, but you DID ask how I was doing. I just feel so strongly about this med that I feel the need to tell other treatment resistant depressives what it has done for me. It may not be a miracle for everyone, but for now, it is certainly a miracle for me. I just hope hope hope things continue as they are right now.
> >
> > Phewww... What a rant... And how are you doing Justherself? Side effects, improvement? Again, don't worry about supply issues, ERFA WILL help you. Increase your dose if you need to and feel ready. They told me not to avoid my next dose increase just because of the supply problem. They would supply directly to my pharmacy to facilitate the dose increase. What dose are you on now, and how high would you like to go? There is literature to suggest 1mg/kg is ideal.
> >
> > Phoenix1
>
>Hi Jedi,
Thanks for the response. I know you're a Nardil supporter. I think I went through that hypomania thing for a week at 60mg. Now I just feel tired. But my depression is GONE for long periods of the day. Starting 75 tomorrow, then onwards to 90 in a week.
Phoenix1
This is the end of the thread.
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