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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by FrequentFryer on January 10, 2008, at 23:13:26
Got allot out of this forum so I thought I would give something back.
I have taken almost all the Anti-D's / Cocktails and there is only 1 drug that helps me through the bad times. Sure go ahead and try Effexor if it works for you good, stick with it, if it turns you into a zombie or poops out (more then likley) give Nardil a try.
If your reading this you probably want to get anti-depressed ASAP, so. Get some Nardil and try to get up to the best dosage ASAP (best dosage = 1mg Phenelzine per 1 kg of bodyweight). I managed to get off Zoloft cold turkey and onto 90mg of Nardil in 8 days and experienced relief after 2 weeks. (turned from a depressed zombie to above average happy person).
I wasn't expecting any relief for atleast 3 weeks at optimal dose, but for some reason I am getting relief after 1 week. I think its because I have been taking heaps of fish oil and getting a good night sleep via a small dose of Seroquel (25 - 100 mg), so I would recomend those to ya, especially the Seroquel because it antagonise's 5ht2 and if it dosn't put you to sleep almost nothing will. (The MAOI's usually give ya a bit of insomnia at first).
Heaps of people / doctors don't recommend Maoi's because of all the contradictions but personally I have never found it a problem.
(Disclaimer): EVERY ONE'S DIFFERENT THOUGH!
So at first avoid Tyramine, then when the Nardil is at a steady plasma level you can try eating a bit of cheese, then try and get your blood preasure checked 40 minutes later. (Tyramine and Tryptophan is pretty safe with Nardil I find).
Back in the day Pdoc's used to try and treat people with MAOI's and Amphetamines. THIS I DON'T RECOMMEND! Probably the worst contradiction of any drug combination, also definatly stay away from MDMx.
Other MAOI's when taken with Nardil is probably your biggest worry. (ie chocolate, veggie might etc), but I wouldn't worry about them to much, they don't bother me any but again everyone is different so take the same precaution as with the Tyramine.Now I would say taking 1mg of Nardil per 1kg of bodyweight with the right diet & sleep etc is 90% likely to Antidepress the worst of case's (well its your best chance anyway). That being said I won't be surprised if the antidepressant effects start to diminish over time. Then you will need to add other things.. But that is a whole nother chapter.
Best of luck.
Freq
Posted by Phillipa on January 10, 2008, at 23:42:01
In reply to My guide.on treatment resistant depression!, posted by FrequentFryer on January 10, 2008, at 23:13:26
Thats great congratulations!!!!!! Phillipa
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 11, 2008, at 8:51:47
In reply to My guide.on treatment resistant depression!, posted by FrequentFryer on January 10, 2008, at 23:13:26
> Got allot out of this forum so I thought I would give something back.
>
> I have taken almost all the Anti-D's / Cocktails and there is only 1 drug that helps me through the bad times. Sure go ahead and try Effexor if it works for you good, stick with it, if it turns you into a zombie or poops out (more then likley) give Nardil a try.
>
> If your reading this you probably want to get anti-depressed ASAP, so. Get some Nardil and try to get up to the best dosage ASAP (best dosage = 1mg Phenelzine per 1 kg of bodyweight). I managed to get off Zoloft cold turkey and onto 90mg of Nardil in 8 days and experienced relief after 2 weeks. (turned from a depressed zombie to above average happy person).
>
> I wasn't expecting any relief for atleast 3 weeks at optimal dose, but for some reason I am getting relief after 1 week. I think its because I have been taking heaps of fish oil and getting a good night sleep via a small dose of Seroquel (25 - 100 mg), so I would recomend those to ya, especially the Seroquel because it antagonise's 5ht2 and if it dosn't put you to sleep almost nothing will. (The MAOI's usually give ya a bit of insomnia at first).
>
> Heaps of people / doctors don't recommend Maoi's because of all the contradictions but personally I have never found it a problem.
> (Disclaimer): EVERY ONE'S DIFFERENT THOUGH!
> So at first avoid Tyramine, then when the Nardil is at a steady plasma level you can try eating a bit of cheese, then try and get your blood preasure checked 40 minutes later. (Tyramine and Tryptophan is pretty safe with Nardil I find).
> Back in the day Pdoc's used to try and treat people with MAOI's and Amphetamines. THIS I DON'T RECOMMEND! Probably the worst contradiction of any drug combination, also definatly stay away from MDMx.
> Other MAOI's when taken with Nardil is probably your biggest worry. (ie chocolate, veggie might etc), but I wouldn't worry about them to much, they don't bother me any but again everyone is different so take the same precaution as with the Tyramine.
>
> Now I would say taking 1mg of Nardil per 1kg of bodyweight with the right diet & sleep etc is 90% likely to Antidepress the worst of case's (well its your best chance anyway). That being said I won't be surprised if the antidepressant effects start to diminish over time. Then you will need to add other things.. But that is a whole nother chapter.
>
> Best of luck.
> FreqWow, thanks, I agree the MAOI's are vastly underused, and unjustly feared. Now, I need Chapter 2. Already worried about what will happen when Nardil poops out. It's such a life-changing drug, that I can't imagine what would/will happen if/when it poops out. Already aiming for a high dose of 90mg (1mg/kg, so increasing dose won't be much of an option.
Phoenix1
Posted by Justherself54 on January 11, 2008, at 9:36:38
In reply to Re: My guide.on treatment resistant depression! » FrequentFryer, posted by Phoenix1 on January 11, 2008, at 8:51:47
I'm with Phoenix1 on this one too..aiming for an increase..Nardil has been the only AD that has made me feel the closest to the "old me"
Posted by bulldog2 on January 11, 2008, at 15:30:17
In reply to My guide.on treatment resistant depression!, posted by FrequentFryer on January 10, 2008, at 23:13:26
Shame they don't make nardil in a patch.
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 11, 2008, at 15:35:17
In reply to Re: My guide.on treatment resistant depression!, posted by bulldog2 on January 11, 2008, at 15:30:17
> Shame they don't make nardil in a patch.
Why would a patch be better? Might get rid of some of the nasty gastrointestinal side effects I have right now...
Posted by bulldog2 on January 11, 2008, at 16:09:29
In reply to Re: My guide.on treatment resistant depression! » bulldog2, posted by Phoenix1 on January 11, 2008, at 15:35:17
> > Shame they don't make nardil in a patch.
>
> Why would a patch be better? Might get rid of some of the nasty gastrointestinal side effects I have right now...Much less dietary restrictions because much less mao is inhibited in the stomach. Chance of hypertensive crisis is much less with a patch.
Posted by Phillipa on January 11, 2008, at 18:45:19
In reply to Re: My guide.on treatment resistant depression!, posted by bulldog2 on January 11, 2008, at 16:09:29
And if bad side effects can take it off. May be a psychological reaction but that's how my brain works. See it off it's gone even if its not. Phillipa
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 12, 2008, at 10:38:34
In reply to Re: My guide.on treatment resistant depression!, posted by bulldog2 on January 11, 2008, at 16:09:29
> > > Shame they don't make nardil in a patch.
> >
> > Why would a patch be better? Might get rid of some of the nasty gastrointestinal side effects I have right now...
>
> Much less dietary restrictions because much less mao is inhibited in the stomach. Chance of hypertensive crisis is much less with a patch.Agreed, if Nardil were available as a patch with fewer side effects and equal efficacy, I would pick it over the pills.
Posted by FrequentFryer on January 12, 2008, at 19:12:12
In reply to Re: My guide.on treatment resistant depression!, posted by Phillipa on January 11, 2008, at 18:45:19
> And if bad side effects can take it off. May be a psychological reaction but that's how my brain works. See it off it's gone even if its not. Phillipa
Yeah I could definatly see someone being slightly plocebic towards the reactions but if you are snsetive to drugs just start off taking 25mg Phenelzine & Get a blood preasure test, that will prove without a dought if your gonna react badly to it, then slowly work your way up, (who needs chocolate & cheese anyways their both fattening & ya want to cut back on fats with Nardil a bit), (well I do) :)
And @ 25 mg the wost that could happen is you could get a slight temperature or hedache, or when ya stand up quick it might all go white, but this will pass with time anyways and is very rare.I have experimented with a very small amount of ecstacy & amphetamines a few times and survived without much of a drama, which is far more dangerous then the drug itself or any food amines. (Prolly took a few years out of my heart though).
Posted by Phillipa on January 12, 2008, at 19:22:33
In reply to Re: My guide.on treatment resistant depression! » Phillipa, posted by FrequentFryer on January 12, 2008, at 19:12:12
Sorry not for me. Phillipa
Posted by tecknohed on January 15, 2008, at 5:34:22
In reply to Re: My guide.on treatment resistant depression! » FrequentFryer, posted by Phoenix1 on January 11, 2008, at 8:51:47
> Wow, thanks, I agree the MAOI's are vastly underused, and unjustly feared. Now, I need Chapter 2. Already worried about what will happen when Nardil poops out. It's such a life-changing drug, that I can't imagine what would/will happen if/when it poops out. Already aiming for a high dose of 90mg (1mg/kg, so increasing dose won't be much of an option.
>
> Phoenix1I have a theory on how to fix Nardil (& maybe other MAOI) poopout. Add more of whatever Nardil was boosting in the first place. Example: add 5-HTP, bupropion & clonazepam. Whatch it all come back!
This isn't all just based on theory either. I'm already doing 'things' with my Marplan which is increasing its effectiveness. But its too soon to draw any definite conclusions yet- but I'm confident :)
teck
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