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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by BGB on January 1, 2008, at 16:47:34
In reply to Re: The I can't find a med to help me sleep thread, posted by linkadge on January 1, 2008, at 15:35:40
I found that Seroquel had a paradoxical response as far as sleep went. 600mg at bedtime (for mood stabilization) made me a little drowsy, but when I took 25mg, I got knocked out like a light.
I had the same experience with Remeron. 15mg put me down like a sledgehammer but the 60mg I take now has no effect on me.
I also have good luck with Melatonin. I especially like the sublingual tablets that you can get at health food stores or online, because they work quickly. BTW, Melatonin is the only nutritional supplement, herb, vitamin, or other "natural" non-drug product that I have ever tried (for any purpose) that has had any noticeable effect on me at all.
Best of luck to you dear, sleep is so important to your mental and physical health. If you have access to one, maybe you could try seeing a "sleep neurologist"? I have one for my sleep apnea and she is wonderful.
Take care. =)
==DISCLAIMER: None of the above statements are generalizations. I am not generalizing that natural medicine products do not work. These are just my own personal experiences.==
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 1, 2008, at 19:25:09
In reply to Re: The I can't find a med to help me sleep thread, posted by BGB on January 1, 2008, at 16:47:34
Can anyone explain pharmacologically the paradoxical low-dose being more sedating thatn high dose for Seroquel. I know for Remeron, it's H1 effects kick in at a very low dose and cause sedation but at higher doses, there is a NE boost that countereffects the sedation. What does Seroquel do at higher doses to cause less sedation?
Oh, and sorry if I'm stealing your thread Maxime. But maybe less Seroquel at night = better sleep?
Phoenix1
> I found that Seroquel had a paradoxical response as far as sleep went. 600mg at bedtime (for mood stabilization) made me a little drowsy, but when I took 25mg, I got knocked out like a light.
>
> I had the same experience with Remeron. 15mg put me down like a sledgehammer but the 60mg I take now has no effect on me.
>
> I also have good luck with Melatonin. I especially like the sublingual tablets that you can get at health food stores or online, because they work quickly. BTW, Melatonin is the only nutritional supplement, herb, vitamin, or other "natural" non-drug product that I have ever tried (for any purpose) that has had any noticeable effect on me at all.
>
> Best of luck to you dear, sleep is so important to your mental and physical health. If you have access to one, maybe you could try seeing a "sleep neurologist"? I have one for my sleep apnea and she is wonderful.
>
> Take care. =)
>
> ==DISCLAIMER: None of the above statements are generalizations. I am not generalizing that natural medicine products do not work. These are just my own personal experiences.==
Posted by Maxime on January 1, 2008, at 20:36:50
In reply to Re: The I can't find a med to help me sleep thread, posted by Mikez on January 1, 2008, at 4:51:28
> Have you tried low dose seroquel...the higher the dose, the less sedating it is actually...I took 25mg at night and woke up feeling like a new person. Previously I couldnt get to bed until 8 am, but on it, was going to bed 12 each night.
I need the high dose of Seroquel because it's my mood stabiliser.
Maxime
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 1, 2008, at 21:31:01
In reply to Re: The I can't find a med to help me sleep thread » Mikez, posted by Maxime on January 1, 2008, at 20:36:50
> > Have you tried low dose seroquel...the higher the dose, the less sedating it is actually...I took 25mg at night and woke up feeling like a new person. Previously I couldnt get to bed until 8 am, but on it, was going to bed 12 each night.
>
> I need the high dose of Seroquel because it's my mood stabiliser.
>
> Maxime
Maxime,Wondering if it is possible for you to adjust your dosing schedule so that at night you only take a small dose, and in the morning you take the large one. Or does it sedate you too much for daytime use? I'm not sure if it would help even if it is an option, but just a thought. Hope you find some sleep tonight.
Phoenix1
Posted by linkadge on January 1, 2008, at 22:12:41
In reply to Re: The I can't find a med to help me sleep thread » Maxime, posted by Phoenix1 on January 1, 2008, at 21:31:01
I know this is not related, but seroquel has a nasty withdrawl for me. I use small doses as a sleep aid, but when I stop, my thinking gets very distorted. Somtimes I sit in the courner and stare at the wall for a day or two.
Linkadge
Posted by amigan on January 2, 2008, at 0:45:57
In reply to Re: The I can't find a med to help me sleep thread » Maxime, posted by Phoenix1 on December 31, 2007, at 9:00:00
As phoenix1 said, i recommend you to try Hydroxyzine or Promethazine. They both works as potent hypnotics for me. The only drawback is their long half-lives and that you start to develop tolerance after some weeks.
Trazodone doesn't do much for me. I think it works well for depressive insomniacs, only.
Alcohol is a bad choice, imho.
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on January 2, 2008, at 3:26:01
In reply to Why is Seroquel more sedating at low doses?, posted by Phoenix1 on January 1, 2008, at 19:25:09
I have found that to be the case after taking Seroquel for many years. When taking NO other meds, Seroquel makes me very sedated at 25-50mg and not much sedated at 100+.
Posted by Maxime on January 2, 2008, at 16:59:03
In reply to Re: The I can't find a med to help me sleep thread, posted by linkadge on January 1, 2008, at 22:12:41
> I know this is not related, but seroquel has a nasty withdrawl for me. I use small doses as a sleep aid, but when I stop, my thinking gets very distorted. Somtimes I sit in the courner and stare at the wall for a day or two.
>
> LinkadgeWhy do you stop taking it?
Maxime
Posted by 4WD on January 2, 2008, at 20:10:01
In reply to The I can't find a med to help me sleep thread, posted by Maxime on December 31, 2007, at 0:58:38
> It's almost 2 am and I am wide awake. This wouldn't bother me too much except for the fact that I didn't at all the night before.
>
> I have yet to find a med that helps me sleep.
>
> Insomnia is lonely. Anyone else out there sleepless?
>
> I did a body relaxation exercise, but it didn't really take. I've had some milk to drink.
>
> I just wish I could find something that would help
>
> MaximeHi Maxime,
I guess this might be a dumb suggestion since you've probably already tried it but Trazadone really helps me sleep. Better than Ambien by far. But then my problem isn't falling asleep, it's staying asleep --i.e. waking up way too early.
How long has the insomnia been a problem? I know you are on Zoloft and when I was on Prozac I had terrible insomnia the whole 8 years. When I was switched to Effexor, the insomnia improved greatly. But what got rid of it entirely was when I started taking Cymbalta. I took it for about five months and during that time I could even take naps. I could fall asleep normally and naturally. I took it in the morning so it wasn't from any sedative effect.
What's more, when I stopped Cymbalta, the insomnia did not come back. It's like it changed something in my brain that stayed changed even after I stopped taking the drug.
I sympathize with you deeply. The whole time I was on Prozac I would spend 2-4 hours in bed waiting to fall asleep. I'd get up and go back, get up and go back. Most of the time, though, I'd just lie there and wait. It was horrible. I thank God often that the insomnia is gone.
What have you tried?
Marsha
Posted by Maxime on January 2, 2008, at 20:50:35
In reply to Re: The I can't find a med to help me sleep thread » Maxime, posted by 4WD on January 2, 2008, at 20:10:01
I have suffered from insomnia since I was a young child. I could never fall asleep.
I have trouble with both staying asleep and getting to sleep.
I have tried the following for sleep. Most of them worked, but then stopped working:
Immovane (similar to your Lunesta)
Nozinan
Thorazine
Trazadone
A benzo that I can't remember
Tryptophan
Risperdal
Zyprexa
Seroquel
Benadryl
Surmontil
Amitryptaline
Ativan
AtaraxWe don't have as many sleep meds as you have in the US. When I lived in the US I took Ambien which worked for a while.
Maxime
Posted by linkadge on January 2, 2008, at 22:45:41
In reply to Re: The I can't find a med to help me sleep thread » linkadge, posted by Maxime on January 2, 2008, at 16:59:03
Cause I hate it. (simple answer)
Linkadge
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 3, 2008, at 14:44:05
In reply to Re: The I can't find a med to help me sleep thread » Maxime, posted by linkadge on January 2, 2008, at 22:45:41
> Cause I hate it. (simple answer)
>
> LinkadgeSorry to bug you, but why do you hate it? Do you just take the low doses for sleep, or higher doses as a mood stabilizer? I haven't heard many people complain about it as a sleep aid. I'm interested because I also take low doses for sleep and maybe I'm missing something, because it seems to work pretty well for me. But then again, everybody really reacts differently to different meds, right?
Phoenix1
Posted by linkadge on January 3, 2008, at 15:23:32
In reply to Re: The I can't find a med to help me sleep thread » linkadge, posted by Phoenix1 on January 3, 2008, at 14:44:05
I was prescribed 25-50mg as an adjunctive to an antidepressnat. It kindof helps with sleep, but the next day I am pretty much a zombie. It kills my motivation, messes up my coordination, gives me a stiff neck, induces jaw cleching, makes it hard to move my eyes sometimes. I also tend to bindge on really fattening foods the next day. It gives me a strange heartbeat, and a tight chest. I feel spacey on it till about 3:00pm. It makes things look visually unsymetric. I feel ickey the next day. I feel hungry yet full at the same time, and experience a vague feeling of uneasiness about wheather I am hungry or thirsty or neither. It makes me feel uncomforable in my body, like certain thoughts are being blocked, I feel like I can't acces my whole brain. I kind of feel more worthless the next day, and it seems to kill what little interest I had.
The withdrawl makes me paranoid, and I fly into short bursts of rage. I also have an extreme desire to iscolate myself during withdrawl. Withdrawl makes my thoughts really distorted and nonsensicle.
Short answer, I hate it, it feels so dirty, and I feel dirty on it.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on January 3, 2008, at 15:24:14
In reply to Re: The I can't find a med to help me sleep thread » linkadge, posted by Phoenix1 on January 3, 2008, at 14:44:05
Oh, and it makes it hard to play the piano.
Linkadge
Posted by Maxime on January 5, 2008, at 1:29:11
In reply to Re: The I can't find a med to help me sleep thread, posted by linkadge on January 3, 2008, at 15:24:14
Posted by 49er on January 5, 2008, at 9:35:52
In reply to The I can't find a med to help me sleep thread, posted by Maxime on December 31, 2007, at 0:58:38
Maxime,
I take a powered form of Magesium by Peter Gilliam to help with sleep. In spite of tapering Remeron, which I have used as a sleep med, it has worked great. Normally, tapering a sleep med is a recipe for withdrawal symptoms of rebound insomnia.
Just a caution if you decide to go this route. I had been taking 3/4 teaspoon which was working great for sleep.
But due to what felt like increased anxiety during the day as possible withdrawal symptoms, I decided to try a teaspoon for bed. Big mistake as I developed insomnia.
I think what I am saying is that there is a fine window where a certain amount works great. But if you go over that, it is a recipe for disaster.
Do a meds interaction checker on the medscape site to make sure you can take it with your meds. But if that checks out ok, I would certainly give it a shot.
Good luck as I know from personal experience that insomnia is very hard to deal with
49er
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 5, 2008, at 11:25:42
In reply to It's 2:30 am and I can't sleep! (nm), posted by Maxime on January 5, 2008, at 1:29:11
Sorry Maxime, I feel your pain. Hope you talk to your pdoc about this too on Monday.
Posted by Maxime on January 7, 2008, at 1:22:54
In reply to Re: It's 2:30 am and I can't sleep! » Maxime, posted by Phoenix1 on January 5, 2008, at 11:25:42
2:30 am and I can't sleep ...AGAIN. I have to get up at 6 ... I am so screwed.
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on January 7, 2008, at 10:09:25
In reply to Re: It's 2:30 am and I can't sleep!, posted by Maxime on January 7, 2008, at 1:22:54
DAMMIT! I only feel asleep at around 5 am. My alarm was set for 6 am. I must have turned it off in my sleep when it went off. I miss my appointment with my GP. Now I have to wait until March. F*CK F*CK F*CK.
I will make it to my psychiatrist though and that appointment is more important anyway.
Still, I feel like sh*t for missing an appointment. Part of me is relieved though because I have been cutting and my GP would have had a fit!
MAxime
Posted by MidnightBlue on January 7, 2008, at 10:19:28
In reply to F*CK!, posted by Maxime on January 7, 2008, at 10:09:25
Please tell your pdoc about your sleep problems and that you are cutting.
MB
Posted by Mikez on January 8, 2008, at 3:42:19
In reply to Re: The I can't find a med to help me sleep thread, posted by linkadge on January 3, 2008, at 15:24:14
Sorry about your experience linkadge. Just wondering have you tried remeron as an adjunct for sleep? I have tried it by itself and didnt like it but im thinking it may be good as an adjunct.
Posted by Maxime on January 8, 2008, at 20:47:00
In reply to Re: F*CK! » Maxime, posted by MidnightBlue on January 7, 2008, at 10:19:28
> Please tell your pdoc about your sleep problems and that you are cutting.
>
> MBI did. He didn't say much about the cutting. Was more concerned with my insomnia.
Maxime
Posted by yxibow on January 10, 2008, at 4:38:46
In reply to Re: It's 2:30 am and I can't sleep!, posted by Maxime on January 7, 2008, at 1:22:54
> 2:30 am and I can't sleep ...AGAIN. I have to get up at 6 ... I am so screwed.
>
> MaximeHave you ever tried l-tryptophan? I'm experimenting with it, I can't vouch for this, but this sleep inducing amino acid, which actually has a prescription version too (at one point anyhow), is like eating a lot of turkey and warm milk basically. 5HTP is also its metabolite more or less.
-- Jay
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 14, 2008, at 0:08:03
In reply to F*CK!, posted by Maxime on January 7, 2008, at 10:09:25
How is your sleep these days?
Posted by oldschool305 on January 14, 2008, at 23:27:19
In reply to Re: F*CK! » Maxime, posted by Phoenix1 on January 14, 2008, at 0:08:03
I can't sleep either!! It sucks!!!!!! I quit yet another job today because I could not sleep last night AT ALL! Drove to work and nearly fainted in the break room. I use to be able to hold a job for a month, now only a week. Go me!
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