![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by Maxime on December 23, 2007, at 15:17:34
In reply to Clarification on MAOI diet, posted by Phoenix1 on December 23, 2007, at 14:19:03
I was able to eat just about everything (I am vegan) but soy sauce gave me a very bad hypertensive crisis. So I used Bragg sauce instead (you can Google it). I wasn't able to eat any fermented soy products.
Maxime
Posted by Molitor on December 23, 2007, at 16:11:09
In reply to Clarification on MAOI diet, posted by Phoenix1 on December 23, 2007, at 14:19:03
Here's the official diet for Marplan:
http://validuspharma.com/dev/MarplanDietCard.pdf
The official diets for Nardil and Parnate are more strict.
1. Except for fresh soy milk, soy products are out, period. What sauces you can eat depend upon what's in them, and mystery sauces at restaurants are probably best avoided.
2. Fresh meat, poultry and fish are OK. So are normal hot dogs and bacon. What you have to avoid here is anything that is AGED, FERMENTED or SPOILED. There's a few special-case items to avoid here, such as pickled herring, and animal livers seem to show up on a lot of lists. Avoid spicy meat products from truck-stop restroom vending machines, no matter how tempting...
3. Yogurt in reasonable quantities is fine, as long as it's not spoiled. Best to use before its use-by date.
4. Fish oil is fine. Just check the label to make sure you're not getting a fish oil "product" with unwanted ingredients. "Distilled" is fine.
Posted by Phillipa on December 23, 2007, at 17:27:22
In reply to Re: Clarification on MAOI diet » Phoenix1, posted by Molitor on December 23, 2007, at 16:11:09
Didn't Scott print out an MAOI diet or was it the girl here before me Elizabeth? Phillipa
Posted by ace on December 23, 2007, at 22:30:19
In reply to Clarification on MAOI diet, posted by Phoenix1 on December 23, 2007, at 14:19:03
> OK, so I think I understand the MAOI diet, but am confused by a few points. Can anyone clarify?
>
> 1.)Soya products. I know soy sauce is out. What about fresh tofu? What about other common Asian sauces :fish sauce, oyster sauce, teriyaki sauce, black bean sauce.
> 2.)Bacon, sausages, ham, deli meats (Other than obviously salami, pepperoni, etc.) Is ham, turkey OK?
> 3.) Yogurt? I have read that it must be less than 5 days old. How am I to know when the yogurt I'm buying was mad.
> 4.)Omega-3 Fish oil. Comes from fish, so should I be worried? Are there any proteins that could become denatured.
>
> This is really confusing. I'm just paranoid about a hypertensive crisis.Here is a REAL MAOI diet precautionary.....
http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/maoi.html
I actually have this great article at home which also gives a realistic diet, and alludes to patients to NOT go to hospital in most cases when they have a HyperT. reaction!!! They say most hospitals won't know the appropriate action to take- and this has been my experience 3 times!!! This was written by two GOOD shrinks. They basically said the truth- that most doctors don't know anything about MAOI's
See, a lot of foods are cool, but because MAOI's don't make certain people very rich, they can't get off their lazy a**es and write up a new one.
Instead they promote psychotropics which leave a lot of people still incapacitated. Where is the logic, Dr. Einsteins??! Most psychiatrists are quite unstable themselves- this is a known fact. I am trying to illustrate here that Doctors are too much a product of their lacklustre education these days, and psychiatrists have the tendency to cause more harm than good.... especially younger ones. I think it's good to do your own research (don't go overboard) and have a general awareness about the drugs we all take.
So all this nonsense about about MAOI's being 'dangerous' drugs persist....this dissapoints me.We have over 50 years of study on MAOI's- no cancer, no other serious long term effects.....
Lets see if SSRI's shape up the same.....I don't think they will! I think they will be removed from the market eventually.
If you ever get HTC- take Thorazine, Cloinidine, or Nifedipine. My biggest mistake has been to go to hospiatal when I have had HTC, and have to deal with inept nurses who wouldn't know an MAOI from a loaf of bread!
Ace:)
> Thanks,
>
> Phoenix1
Posted by stargazer2 on December 24, 2007, at 22:54:52
In reply to Re: Silly Doctors! » Phoenix1, posted by ace on December 23, 2007, at 22:30:19
I agree with you Ace about going to the ER. I have treated myself at home with Nifedipine and avoided going to the ER, although I advised my husband to call 911 if I went out or something bad happened.
Hospitals don't know alot about many things around here (Yale) unless you have a GSW (gunshot wound). They love the excitement of trauma and other more routine maladies get ignored or misdiagnosed in the ER. So avoid them at all costs. MAO treatment will not even register on their radar screens. I went to a highly recommended pdoc at Yale and when I mentioned Nardil his eyes glazed over. He had no clue about doses or anything, his focus was ketamine and research based psychiatry.
I do take offense to your comment about inept nurses, since I am one of the more ept ones, based on my background (med-surg, ortho, managed care, psych, homecare), education (BSN) and training (Boston). My father was almost killed by an inept MD, when they ordered Haldol for someone on Sinemet, so anyone in the ER can mess you up from the highly esteemed physician to the low paid and unskilled assistants, who made my life as a nurse a living hell. One aide told me she was trained to get a BP, using a cuff on the forearm and not the upper arm. Also, anytime I checked a BP after an aide took it, it was not even in the same ballpark. So the chain of events in the ER can be incorrectly managed by anyone involved in a patient's care.
God help us when all nurses are less educated and trained, as they are quickly moved through a system that is based on numbers of positions to fill not the education, intellignece and training of the candidate.
Many excellent nurses have left the profession for a variety of reasons. It is a thankless job, but the motivation for many today is money, which was never there years ago,when I started out.
Only recently has the pay increased to fill a demand for nurses but this is not the best reason to go into a field that has to have strong compassion and people skills, besides techinical knowledge.
My last job in nursing confirmed the continuing decline of a profession that has stooped to fill positions with individuals that are motivated by money. Many nurses didn't understand why I would talk to the psych patients. Figure that one out. By talking with them you just created more problems for yourself, or so that was the rationale behind that comment.
Like I said before, God help us...Merry Christmas and the best advice I can give all of you is "heal thyselves".
Still on Nardil 45 (down from 60 a week ago). All my doing, my pdoc is just an observer and advisor of sorts, but he is amazed with my ability to go beyond and figure things out for myself. Especially after my history with TRD, treated since 1985on every psych medication known to man.
Stargazer
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on December 25, 2007, at 1:31:35
In reply to Re: Silly Doctors! » Phoenix1, posted by ace on December 23, 2007, at 22:30:19
>> Most psychiatrists are quite unstable themselves- this is a known fact.
>>and psychiatrists have the tendency to cause more harm than good.... especially younger ones.
Please don't exaggerate or overgeneralize, or post anything that might lead others - such as psychiatrists - to feel accused or put down.If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
-- 10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on December 25, 2007, at 3:21:46
In reply to Clarification on MAOI diet, posted by Phoenix1 on December 23, 2007, at 14:19:03
Click on this link:
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on December 25, 2007, at 3:26:12
In reply to Everything u need to know about MAOI diet » Phoenix1, posted by UgottaHaveHope on December 25, 2007, at 3:21:46
1) Aged cheeses, 2) cured meat such as pepperoni or salami and 3) soy sauce.
Just to safe and for your peace of mind, buy a cheap blood-pressure wrist monitor from Walmart and monitor your BP during and after you eat foods that are on the border of the restricted list.
I actually eat everything, but with the three above I eat in very small amounts.
Posted by ace on December 25, 2007, at 11:06:11
In reply to Re: Silly Doctors!/Ace, posted by stargazer2 on December 24, 2007, at 22:54:52
> I agree with you Ace about going to the ER. I have treated myself at home with Nifedipine and avoided going to the ER, although I advised my husband to call 911 if I went out or something bad happened.
>
> Hospitals don't know alot about many things around here (Yale) unless you have a GSW (gunshot wound). They love the excitement of trauma and other more routine maladies get ignored or misdiagnosed in the ER. So avoid them at all costs. MAO treatment will not even register on their radar screens. I went to a highly recommended pdoc at Yale and when I mentioned Nardil his eyes glazed over. He had no clue about doses or anything, his focus was ketamine and research based psychiatry.
>
> I do take offense to your comment about inept nurses, since I am one of the more ept ones, based on my background (med-surg, ortho, managed care, psych, homecare), education (BSN) and training (Boston).Apologies that you took offense. However, while I stress that I feel that some nurses are wonderful, there are quite a few out there who are very inept, who taint the profession.
I feel some Nurses do not have have enough empathy, and the wrong motivations to be in such a job. You can't learn empathy and love directly from a textbook that's while I feel concern the new generation of nurses.
Other nurses have a palpable 'nurse-doctor' syndrome. Especially psychiatric nurses from what i have seen. I have seen some actually telling patients what their problems are, and how to cure them. This is absurd, especially in the face of psychiatric illness. They seem to love the (illuion of) power they have over patients.But, this certainly does not apply to ALL nurses...like I stated, some are lovely and wonderfula at their jobs.
My father was almost killed by an inept MD, when they ordered Haldol for someone on Sinemet, so anyone in the ER can mess you up from the highly esteemed physician to the low paid and unskilled assistants, who made my life as a nurse a living hell.
i am sorry that your father had that experience.Physicians are taught with a lot more rigour than nurses and assistants- at least that is the case at the University of Sydney and University of NSW.
It is inherent in their training and I have seen it. However, this would obviously differ from country to country. Doctors in Australia are indeed held in high esteem/social status here, whereas Nurses and other hospiatal personelle do not share this. This is just a usual silly human situation in my opinion. All I can say is that Doctors go through very stringent tests here- both of a theoretical and practial nature.
One aide told me she was trained to get a BP, using a cuff on the forearm and not the upper arm. Also, anytime I checked a BP after an aide took it, it was not even in the same ballpark. So the chain of events in the ER can be incorrectly managed by anyone involved in a patient's care.
>
> God help us when all nurses are less educated and trained, as they are quickly moved through a system that is based on numbers of positions to fill not the education, intellignece and training of the candidate.
>
> Many excellent nurses have left the profession for a variety of reasons. It is a thankless job, but the motivation for many today is money, which was never there years ago,when I started out.
I agree very much with both the above paragraphs- you make good points, and it is good you are airing them!> Only recently has the pay increased to fill a demand for nurses but this is not the best reason to go into a field that has to have strong compassion and people skills, besides techinical knowledge.
>
> My last job in nursing confirmed the continuing decline of a profession that has stooped to fill positions with individuals that are motivated by money. Many nurses didn't understand why I would talk to the psych patients. Figure that one out. By talking with them you just created more problems for yourself, or so that was the rationale behind that comment.This is very much the same with doctors here too. My GP (I don't see a psychiatrist...not anymore!) and me were speaking about this. he is quite old now. A very good doctor. He stated that too many med students are going into the job for all the wrong reasons- money, prestige etc. He said most don't realise it is not as glamorous as it seems and it involves some messy work. This doctor also agreed with my sentiments with regards to the amount of unethical, diturbed psychiatrists. And he has known a lot of them in his years. Actually he stated that he rarely meets any stable psychiatrists- and one psychiatrist he knew well, who appeared very well balanced, warm and caring, ended up shooting his wife, two children and himself. I here about psychiatrits suicides' a far amount through my uni. It's a problem.
> Like I said before, God help us...Merry Christmas and the best advice I can give all of you is "heal thyselves".Very true...Responsibilty must start with oneself. Even if this means that one is responsible to seek out help from others.
> Still on Nardil 45 (down from 60 a week ago). All my doing, my pdoc is just an observer and advisor of sorts, but he is amazed with my ability to go beyond and figure things out for myself. Especially after my history with TRD, treated since 1985on every psych medication known to man.
It doesn't suprise me that you are good at figuring things out yourself- you are very insightful.
Stick with Nardil- you must know I feel strongly about this strong. i truly hope it works miracles in you life.
And everything I expressed above is my opinion...please feel free to disagree- anyone!
> Stargazer>
You take good care!
Ace:)
Posted by Phillipa on December 25, 2007, at 14:05:15
In reply to Re: Silly Doctors!/Ace » stargazer2, posted by ace on December 25, 2007, at 11:06:11
Ace I do agree with stargazer reguarding not all but a lot of nurses in the US. Seems nursing used to be for the caring kind and money was secondary. Funny when nursing didn't really care the salary being realistic. I floated from every floor in in a hospital even did one Christmas Eve in labor and Delivery with mag sulfate drip. What I've seen is the oldies but goodies delivery the best of care. Although not nursing anymore my favorite board is meds as I do increase my education for me. And this in turn gives me the ability to suggest to a neighbor or family member always remembering to tell them to ask their doc. Thing I don't especially like is that nursing assistants do the work of the RN now cathetherizations, pulling IV lines, filling feeding tubes adusting the flow rates. And it's amazing how some do blood pressures. I also do not like the automatic ones as they more often than not are not acurate. I real old fashined cuff and stesescope is best as you acturally hear the blood pressure. Ace I know you will be a wonderful doc. But what your friend the older doc says is true one I worked with used carbon monoxide and that was it. Also I love psych patients and talking with them how else will you know what is in their minds? Observation is important too but talking is the most important in my opinion. Well I guess your Christmas is over hope it was a good one and you'll be back to share. My Ace The NARDIL Champ!!!!!!!!!!Phillipa
Posted by ace on December 25, 2007, at 22:06:12
In reply to Re: Silly Doctors!/Ace » ace, posted by Phillipa on December 25, 2007, at 14:05:15
> Ace I do agree with stargazer reguarding not all but a lot of nurses in the US.
I feel I may have been misconstrued. I am not thinking in a black and white fashion here- even though I may have came across that way. Some nurses are great, I just feel a high % lack in certain qualities inherent in a 'good' nurse. Doctors, nurses, plumbers, bus drivers etc etc - we are all human- and I think we all have equal potential for the most part. I think too many people see psychiatrists as Gods- they are only flesh and bone!
Here I go, babbling again!!
Seems nursing used to be for the caring kind and money was secondary. Funny when nursing didn't really care the salary being realistic. I floated from every floor in in a hospital even did one Christmas Eve in labor and Delivery with mag sulfate drip. What I've seen is the oldies but goodies delivery the best of care. Although not nursing anymore my favorite board is meds as I do increase my education for me. And this in turn gives me the ability to suggest to a neighbor or family member always remembering to tell them to ask their doc. Thing I don't especially like is that nursing assistants do the work of the RN now cathetherizations, pulling IV lines, filling feeding tubes adusting the flow rates. And it's amazing how some do blood pressures. I also do not like the automatic ones as they more often than not are not acurate. I real old fashined cuff and stesescope is best as you acturally hear the blood pressure.I agree with all you do state here. This era not just in terms of professions, etc, in my opinion, is very much a 'plastic' one. From TV's to cars to the very proffessions we are talking about here- I feel there lacks a ceratin 'soul', as opposed to say, 50-60 years ago. I think quick fixes are soughted out too often. A lot of self-help rubbish. And exactly what yourself, Stargazer and myself have spoken of- the tendency of nurses (and many many many professions) to have recruits with all the wrong motivations. The whole society is becoming so decadent. This decadence permeates into many youngsters causing all sorts of ill effects. When I was 10 years old you would never here the 'F' word on TV. Now, as early as 1o pm, you here it all the time on commercial TV in Australia- and those silly pornograghic adds where they show some 'flesh'....give me a break! Pornography is a huge menance to society.
I babble on even more here. Would a doctor say, "Young Ace, you seem to have 'loosening of associations', we must help you!"??!!!
Ace I know you will be a wonderful doc.
Well I do feel I have the correct motivations. When it comes to dealing with human beings in such a way, The MD must really stay clear, focused and aware of his/her own life and underlying motivations. You know I will be your pdoc Phillipa!
But what your friend the older doc says is true one I worked with used carbon monoxide and that was it. Also I love psych patients and talking with them how else will you know what is in their minds?True. But I get a strong feeling that you certainly are not the type of person to crave a sense of power over others. You are a nice person! Gentle conversations are good. In a very real way, I feel we are ALL as 'screwed up' as each other, and we ALL are doctors and patients to each other....
Observation is important too but talking is the most important in my opinion.But the former must be born of the latter. And the latter, opinion, must be based on thourough observation, free off many pre-concieved judgements.
I hope I don't sound like a snob or smarty pants here!!! If I do, tell me so!!
Well I guess your Christmas is over hope it was a good one and you'll be back to share. My Ace The NARDIL Champ!!!!!!!!!!PhillipaCheers Phillipa!!! It was great! Finally I have had some time of study. That's why I am not here so much- I have such a huge workload, even during my semester break.
But truly hope you had a great one day....and have a brilliant new years!!!!!!
Take good care and keep a smile high!!
Ace!
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 26, 2007, at 9:53:33
In reply to Re: Silly Doctors!/Ace » ace, posted by Phillipa on December 25, 2007, at 14:05:15
> the automatic ones ... more often than not are not acurate.
Please don't exaggerate or overgeneralize.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 26, 2007, at 10:21:23
In reply to Please be civil » ace, posted by Deputy 10derHeart on December 25, 2007, at 1:31:35
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin
Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20071106/msgs/802699.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 26, 2007, at 10:21:33
In reply to Re: Silly Doctors!/Ace » Phillipa, posted by ace on December 25, 2007, at 22:06:12
> The whole society is becoming so decadent. This decadence permeates into many youngsters causing all sorts of ill effects.
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding society is becoming decadent to Psycho-Babble Social. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20071130/msgs/802692.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Glydin on December 26, 2007, at 20:50:51
In reply to Re: Silly Doctors!/Ace » ace, posted by Phillipa on December 25, 2007, at 14:05:15
> Thing I don't especially like is that nursing assistants do the work of the RN now cathetherizations, pulling IV lines, filling feeding tubes adusting the flow rates.
~~~ I am inclined to a feeling of wondering regarding your declaration. I don't agree with you based on the standards of practice applicable where I'm located. All health care institutions I am familar with and have been familar with have polices and job skill sets/descriptions in place that cover what can and cannot be preformed. Those polices are borne out of state/commonwealth Boards of Health Occupation laws. In my experience, those tasks you listed do not fall into the scope of practice and the skill set of a CNA - at least not where I live.
Posted by tecknohed on December 26, 2007, at 21:08:39
In reply to Re: Huh? » Phillipa, posted by Glydin on December 26, 2007, at 20:50:51
> > Thing I don't especially like is that nursing assistants do the work of the RN now cathetherizations, pulling IV lines, filling feeding tubes adusting the flow rates.
>
>
> ~~~ I am inclined to a feeling of wondering regarding your declaration. I don't agree with you based on the standards of practice applicable where I'm located. All health care institutions I am familar with and have been familar with have polices and job skill sets/descriptions in place that cover what can and cannot be preformed. Those polices are borne out of state/commonwealth Boards of Health Occupation laws. In my experience, those tasks you listed do not fall into the scope of practice and the skill set of a CNA - at least not where I live.Different States, different hospitals, different management, different doctors & nurses, etc, etc....
Posted by Glydin on December 26, 2007, at 21:38:34
In reply to Re: Huh? » Glydin, posted by tecknohed on December 26, 2007, at 21:08:39
> Different States, different hospitals, different management, different doctors & nurses, etc, etc....~~~ So where you're located those tasks are within a CNA's guidelines?
Posted by tecknohed on December 26, 2007, at 21:43:28
In reply to Re: Huh? » tecknohed, posted by Glydin on December 26, 2007, at 21:38:34
>
> > Different States, different hospitals, different management, different doctors & nurses, etc, etc....
>
> ~~~ So where you're located those tasks are within a CNA's guidelines?I think you'd be surprised! Watch this space :)
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on December 27, 2007, at 1:09:56
In reply to Redirect: administrative issues, posted by Dr. Bob on December 26, 2007, at 10:21:23
I've redirected any posts re: Dr Bob's admin action on this thread to Psycho-Babble Administration. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20071106/msgs/802861.html
- deputy 10derHeart
Posted by beachbum on December 27, 2007, at 7:41:04
In reply to Re: Silly Doctors!/Ace » ace, posted by Phillipa on December 25, 2007, at 14:05:15
I haven't been here for a while, been feeling good and too busy. Feeling lousy this morning and 'surfing' and saw this. Phillipa is right. I work as a CNA at a hospital; I take out IVs, insert and take out catheters, clear IV's at end of shift, dressing changes, anymore there isn't time to take care of patient, turning, bathing etc. As far as the dynamites for blood pressure, I personally agree they aren't as accurate. If one has an irregulat heart rate the machine can't 'pick' it up and machine fails or the numbers are way off. Many times I will get a number I know isn't correct, way too low in the 80/30 or 40 something or way to high. Taking it manually USUALLY [[99%] brings up way different numbers. I'm amazed every day that the docs think they are fine.
Nursing, I don't have time to go on about that. Personally if I was a nurse I would want to do my own blood pressures manually. Seems so many don't care anymore, and yes there is still some very good nurses but I see the numbers declining every yr. They depend on me to assess the patient way too much IMO. One of the main problems is ech yr state requires more and more charting and they don't have time to do pt. care and the duties that were once theirs are being passed on to the CNA's and then basic things that are important like baths, turning, and having time to feed are neglected. When I already have 9 people, some days all 'total care' I rarely go home feeling good anymore about my care. After 26 yrs of changes I'm ready to throw in the towel.
I'm done rambling.Long story short, don't think Phillipa said anything wrong.
Peace
Posted by Phoenix1 on December 27, 2007, at 11:39:58
In reply to Clarification on MAOI diet, posted by Phoenix1 on December 23, 2007, at 14:19:03
Hi All,
Could we please veer back to the original thread?
2 More obscure MAOI diet questions:
1.) Oyster Sauce (Has "preserved oyster extractives" so I'm guessing it's a no-no)
2.) Dried chinese mushrooms. OK, it's a dried vegetable, but mushrooms do contain more protein than a normal vegetable. Is it safe?
You can see that my diet is predominantly Chinese, and there are a lot of grey areas as far as that cuisine goes. Am I being too paranoid?
Phoenix1
Posted by sdb on December 27, 2007, at 12:42:19
In reply to Re: Silly Doctors!/Ace » stargazer2, posted by ace on December 25, 2007, at 11:06:11
> > I agree with you Ace about going to the ER. I have treated myself at home with Nifedipine and avoided going to the ER, although I advised my husband to call 911 if I went out or something bad happened.
> >
> > Hospitals don't know alot about many things around here (Yale) unless you have a GSW (gunshot wound). They love the excitement of trauma and other more routine maladies get ignored or misdiagnosed in the ER. So avoid them at all costs. MAO treatment will not even register on their radar screens. I went to a highly recommended pdoc at Yale and when I mentioned Nardil his eyes glazed over. He had no clue about doses or anything, his focus was ketamine and research based psychiatry.
> >
> > I do take offense to your comment about inept nurses, since I am one of the more ept ones, based on my background (med-surg, ortho, managed care, psych, homecare), education (BSN) and training (Boston).
>
> Apologies that you took offense. However, while I stress that I feel that some nurses are wonderful, there are quite a few out there who are very inept, who taint the profession.
> I feel some Nurses do not have have enough empathy, and the wrong motivations to be in such a job. You can't learn empathy and love directly from a textbook that's while I feel concern the new generation of nurses.
> Other nurses have a palpable 'nurse-doctor' syndrome. Especially psychiatric nurses from what i have seen. I have seen some actually telling patients what their problems are, and how to cure them. This is absurd, especially in the face of psychiatric illness. They seem to love the (illuion of) power they have over patients.
>
> But, this certainly does not apply to ALL nurses...like I stated, some are lovely and wonderfula at their jobs.
>
>
> My father was almost killed by an inept MD, when they ordered Haldol for someone on Sinemet, so anyone in the ER can mess you up from the highly esteemed physician to the low paid and unskilled assistants, who made my life as a nurse a living hell.
> i am sorry that your father had that experience.
>
> Physicians are taught with a lot more rigour than nurses and assistants- at least that is the case at the University of Sydney and University of NSW.
> It is inherent in their training and I have seen it. However, this would obviously differ from country to country. Doctors in Australia are indeed held in high esteem/social status here, whereas Nurses and other hospiatal personelle do not share this. This is just a usual silly human situation in my opinion. All I can say is that Doctors go through very stringent tests here- both of a theoretical and practial nature.
>
>
> One aide told me she was trained to get a BP, using a cuff on the forearm and not the upper arm. Also, anytime I checked a BP after an aide took it, it was not even in the same ballpark. So the chain of events in the ER can be incorrectly managed by anyone involved in a patient's care.
> >
> > God help us when all nurses are less educated and trained, as they are quickly moved through a system that is based on numbers of positions to fill not the education, intellignece and training of the candidate.
> >
> > Many excellent nurses have left the profession for a variety of reasons. It is a thankless job, but the motivation for many today is money, which was never there years ago,when I started out.
>
>
> I agree very much with both the above paragraphs- you make good points, and it is good you are airing them!
>
> > Only recently has the pay increased to fill a demand for nurses but this is not the best reason to go into a field that has to have strong compassion and people skills, besides techinical knowledge.
> >
> > My last job in nursing confirmed the continuing decline of a profession that has stooped to fill positions with individuals that are motivated by money. Many nurses didn't understand why I would talk to the psych patients. Figure that one out. By talking with them you just created more problems for yourself, or so that was the rationale behind that comment.
>
> This is very much the same with doctors here too. My GP (I don't see a psychiatrist...not anymore!) and me were speaking about this. he is quite old now. A very good doctor. He stated that too many med students are going into the job for all the wrong reasons- money, prestige etc. He said most don't realise it is not as glamorous as it seems and it involves some messy work. This doctor also agreed with my sentiments with regards to the amount of unethical, diturbed psychiatrists. And he has known a lot of them in his years. Actually he stated that he rarely meets any stable psychiatrists- and one psychiatrist he knew well, who appeared very well balanced, warm and caring, ended up shooting his wife, two children and himself. I here about psychiatrits suicides' a far amount through my uni. It's a problem.
>
>
> > Like I said before, God help us...Merry Christmas and the best advice I can give all of you is "heal thyselves".
>
> Very true...Responsibilty must start with oneself. Even if this means that one is responsible to seek out help from others.
>
>
>
> > Still on Nardil 45 (down from 60 a week ago). All my doing, my pdoc is just an observer and advisor of sorts, but he is amazed with my ability to go beyond and figure things out for myself. Especially after my history with TRD, treated since 1985on every psych medication known to man.
>
> It doesn't suprise me that you are good at figuring things out yourself- you are very insightful.
>
> Stick with Nardil- you must know I feel strongly about this strong. i truly hope it works miracles in you life.
>
> And everything I expressed above is my opinion...please feel free to disagree- anyone!
>
>
> > Stargazer
>
> >
> You take good care!
> Ace:)
>I think you are right saying you can't really learn empathy. I would like to state that studying medicine is very costly in many countries. A lot of people in the so called 1st world could never afford it. They introduced entrance tests to medical studies which is a failure in my opinion. A doctor really does not need to be a genius. I agree with tirone here:
http://50plus.com/display.cfm?t_offset=2&libraryID=106&cabinetID=323&documentID=5789
Posted by Molitor on December 27, 2007, at 16:01:50
In reply to Re: Clarification on MAOI diet, posted by Phoenix1 on December 27, 2007, at 11:39:58
> Hi All,
>
> Could we please veer back to the original thread?
>
> 2 More obscure MAOI diet questions:
>
> 1.) Oyster Sauce (Has "preserved oyster extractives" so I'm guessing it's a no-no)
>
> 2.) Dried chinese mushrooms. OK, it's a dried vegetable, but mushrooms do contain more protein than a normal vegetable. Is it safe?
>
> You can see that my diet is predominantly Chinese, and there are a lot of grey areas as far as that cuisine goes. Am I being too paranoid?
>
> Phoenix1You're not being paranoid, you're being smart. :)
Generally speaking, since those items are not "fresh", you should avoid them. I'd be especially wary of the oyster sauce. If mushrooms were simply dehydrated, I can't see a reason that they would pose a problem, but if they went through any sort of fermentation/putrefaction, or were soaked in anything before they were dried, that could pose a problem.
If you're new to MAOIs, you always want to err on the side of safety. As you gain more experience, and get a feel for how the drug affects you, you might be able to experiment a little.
Posted by ace on December 28, 2007, at 2:42:01
In reply to Re: Silly Doctors!/Ace, posted by sdb on December 27, 2007, at 12:42:19
>
> I think you are right saying you can't really learn empathy.I think certain books, advice can point you in the right direction, but, ultimately, I feel, empathy, has to come to one in a natural, non-foreced way, for the greater part.
That being said, I feel we ALL have an inherent empathy within by virtue of being a human being- this includes even serial killers, and other people who seem to be devoid of empathy.
I would like to state that studying medicine is very costly in many countries.It's very expensive here.....fortunately I have family to help me.
A lot of people in the so called 1st world could never afford it. They introduced entrance tests to medical studies which is a failure in my opinion.
'entrance tests'? Is this post-graduate entrance to medical school? I think post-graduate entrance is better, and it aims, I feel, to broaden the applicants spectrum on life, as such, before entering medicine.
A doctor really does not need to be a genius. I agree with tirone here:
I really feel for the most part, that all of us have such a tremedous capacity to do so many great things. I feel we just have to have more self-discipline and focus.....
cheers!!!
Ace:)
> http://50plus.com/display.cfm?t_offset=2&libraryID=106&cabinetID=323&documentID=5789
>
Posted by sdb on December 31, 2007, at 5:43:30
In reply to Re: Silly Doctors!/Ace » sdb, posted by ace on December 28, 2007, at 2:42:01
>
> >
> > I think you are right saying you can't really learn empathy.
>
> I think certain books, advice can point you in the right direction, but, ultimately, I feel, empathy, has to come to one in a natural, non-foreced way, for the greater part.
> That being said, I feel we ALL have an inherent empathy within by virtue of being a human being- this includes even serial killers, and other people who seem to be devoid of empathy.
>
>
> I would like to state that studying medicine is very costly in many countries.
>
> It's very expensive here.....fortunately I have family to help me.
>
> A lot of people in the so called 1st world could never afford it. They introduced entrance tests to medical studies which is a failure in my opinion.
>
> 'entrance tests'? Is this post-graduate entrance to medical school? I think post-graduate entrance is better, and it aims, I feel, to broaden the applicants spectrum on life, as such, before entering medicine.
>
> A doctor really does not need to be a genius. I agree with tirone here:
>
> I really feel for the most part, that all of us have such a tremedous capacity to do so many great things. I feel we just have to have more self-discipline and focus.....
>
> cheers!!!
>
> Ace:)
>
>
> > http://50plus.com/display.cfm?t_offset=2&libraryID=106&cabinetID=323&documentID=5789
> >
>
>entrance test means to be allowed to enter the medical faculty if passed.
warm regards
sdb
This is the end of the thread.
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