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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Wonderment on October 16, 2007, at 20:30:12
I've been taking Generic Cabergoline (from Sun Pharma) since late September to lower my prolactin levels because my libido is extremely low (had tests done).
At first I took 0.25mg x 2 per week. That did a little bit for my libido, but it seemed to fade. So now I'm taking 0.5mg x 2 per week and have been since 2 October.
The effect of 0.5mg was good during the first 3 days or so, although I never reached a peak where I felt I had to do something sexual. But then I noticed the effect was waining, and now it has disappeared completely since Sunday. My libido is practically non-existent!
Things I have been taking since I noticed the decline:
100mg x 3 Pycnogenol
150mg Enzogenol
4000iu vitamin D
3 x 3 Vitalzym
150mcg selenium
200mg alpha lipoic acid
300mg silymarin
500mg x 2 acetyl l carnitineAnd I've been doing 16 minutes of intense cardio every week day over the last week.
Would anyone know what maybe the cause? I've stopped all the supplements for a whole day now.
Thanks for any help you can give me
Posted by d0pamine on October 16, 2007, at 20:40:48
In reply to No Libido on Cabergoline, posted by Wonderment on October 16, 2007, at 20:30:12
The Vitamin D RDA is 400 IU (although one can safely take a bit more), should that be 400 IU vitamin D instead of 4000 in your list? I ask because longterm Calcitriol intoxication causes decreased (not sure about absent) libido as well as a bunch of other nastiness.
Posted by Wonderment on October 16, 2007, at 21:21:09
In reply to Re: No Libido on Cabergoline, posted by d0pamine on October 16, 2007, at 20:40:48
> The Vitamin D RDA is 400 IU (although one can safely take a bit more), should that be 400 IU vitamin D instead of 4000 in your list? I ask because longterm Calcitriol intoxication causes decreased (not sure about absent) libido as well as a bunch of other nastiness.
I read that Dr. Weston Price discovered many stone age cultures received around 4000iu of vitamin D each day, so I thought 'ok I'll try that and see what happens'. Toxicity can occur at 5000iu (or I suppose 4000iu, not much difference!).
This vitamin is said to raise serotonin, and has a long plasma half life.
Pycnogenol has been found to decrease dopamine levels by 10.8% in people with ADHD.
I just read that strenuous exercise increases prolactin.
Looks like I have a few things that maybe lowering my libido. I don't want to stop exercising though.
If nothing changes soon, then I guess it's the vitamin D and its long half life. I don't think the exercise would eliminate my libido so I should continue that.
Thanks for your help
Posted by amigan on October 16, 2007, at 23:05:40
In reply to Re: No Libido on Cabergoline, posted by Wonderment on October 16, 2007, at 21:21:09
Apomorphine has similar action with cabergoline and it is considered effective in raising libido. It is also a potent emetic, thus you need to take it with domperidone or metoclopramide.
Posted by Wonderment on October 17, 2007, at 0:24:21
In reply to Re: No Libido on Cabergoline, posted by amigan on October 16, 2007, at 23:05:40
> Apomorphine has similar action with cabergoline and it is considered effective in raising libido. It is also a potent emetic, thus you need to take it with domperidone or metoclopramide.
So you're saying Cabergoline just may not be effective for me? That I may have built a very quick tolerance to it?
That would suck badly. I chose Cabergoline because it's meant to be the most widely effective, with the least chances of side effects, and tolerance. Plus I already ordered some more a few days ago :)
Posted by amigan on October 17, 2007, at 0:39:43
In reply to Re: No Libido on Cabergoline, posted by Wonderment on October 17, 2007, at 0:24:21
> > Apomorphine has similar action with cabergoline and it is considered effective in raising libido. It is also a potent emetic, thus you need to take it with domperidone or metoclopramide.
>
> So you're saying Cabergoline just may not be effective for me? That I may have built a very quick tolerance to it?No. I'm just saying that if cabergoline is not very effective for you, you could try another similar drug and see if it works better.
Posted by cumulative on October 17, 2007, at 1:23:10
In reply to Re: No Libido on Cabergoline, posted by Wonderment on October 16, 2007, at 21:21:09
>Toxicity can occur at 5000iu (or I suppose 4000iu, not much difference!).
I boldly take up to 5000 IU daily and have never had any problem. I think the risk of Vitamin D toxicity is pretty overstated: nevertheless, for such high dosages monitoring calcium intake (don't take too much) and also supplementing magnesium would be prudent.
>This vitamin is said to raise serotonin, and has a long plasma half life.
It also probably potentiates dopaminergic functioning via calcium channel stuff. I really don't think the overall effect from Vit. D will end up being a libido decrease.
>Pycnogenol has been found to decrease dopamine levels by 10.8% in people with ADHD.
Is that so? That's pretty interesting. Why then the supposed benefits for ADHD from OPCs?
>I just read that strenuous exercise increases prolactin.
Stress/cortisol increases prolactin -- stress reduction techniques might be a good way to approach this issue. Meditation? And moderate exercise. :)
Posted by rvanson on October 17, 2007, at 2:21:56
In reply to No Libido on Cabergoline, posted by Wonderment on October 16, 2007, at 20:30:12
> I've been taking Generic Cabergoline (from Sun Pharma) since late September to lower my prolactin levels because my libido is extremely low (had tests done).
>
> At first I took 0.25mg x 2 per week. That did a little bit for my libido, but it seemed to fade. So now I'm taking 0.5mg x 2 per week and have been since 2 October.
>
> The effect of 0.5mg was good during the first 3 days or so, although I never reached a peak where I felt I had to do something sexual. But then I noticed the effect was waining, and now it has disappeared completely since Sunday. My libido is practically non-existent!
>
> Things I have been taking since I noticed the decline:
> 100mg x 3 Pycnogenol
> 150mg Enzogenol
> 4000iu vitamin D
> 3 x 3 Vitalzym
> 150mcg selenium
> 200mg alpha lipoic acid
> 300mg silymarin
> 500mg x 2 acetyl l carnitine
>
> And I've been doing 16 minutes of intense cardio every week day over the last week.
>
> Would anyone know what maybe the cause? I've stopped all the supplements for a whole day now.
>
> Thanks for any help you can give me
Have you tried Bromocriptine yet?Its much cheaper then Cabergoline, but its prone to causing nausea as well. ;-/
Posted by Sigismund on October 17, 2007, at 16:21:56
In reply to Re: No Libido on Cabergoline, posted by cumulative on October 17, 2007, at 1:23:10
>>Pycnogenol has been found to decrease dopamine levels by 10.8% in people with ADHD.
>Is that so? That's pretty interesting. Why then the supposed benefits for ADHD from OPCs?Could this be the reason resveretrol and OPCs from grape seed extract cause insomnia for me (or so I think)?
Posted by Sigismund on October 17, 2007, at 16:23:06
In reply to Re: No Libido on Cabergoline » Wonderment, posted by rvanson on October 17, 2007, at 2:21:56
Bromocriptine didn't cause nausea for me but the nasal stuffiness was a problem.
Posted by Wonderment on October 17, 2007, at 16:56:41
In reply to Re: No Libido on Cabergoline, posted by cumulative on October 17, 2007, at 1:23:10
> >Pycnogenol has been found to decrease dopamine levels by 10.8% in people with ADHD.
>
> Is that so? That's pretty interesting. Why then the supposed benefits for ADHD from OPCs?
Pycnogenol has been found to help people with ADHD. I thought it was because of this dopamine lowering effect.
Posted by Wonderment on October 17, 2007, at 16:59:44
In reply to Re: No Libido on Cabergoline » cumulative, posted by Sigismund on October 17, 2007, at 16:21:56
> >>Pycnogenol has been found to decrease dopamine levels by 10.8% in people with ADHD.
> >Is that so? That's pretty interesting. Why then the supposed benefits for ADHD from OPCs?
>
> Could this be the reason resveretrol and OPCs from grape seed extract cause insomnia for me (or so I think)?I would have thought less dopamine means better sleep. I slept well while taking it.
Posted by Wonderment on October 17, 2007, at 17:01:38
In reply to Re: No Libido on Cabergoline » Wonderment, posted by rvanson on October 17, 2007, at 2:21:56
> Have you tried Bromocriptine yet?
>
> Its much cheaper then Cabergoline, but its prone to causing nausea as well. ;-/This morning I woke up in a semi aroused state, so I guess I maybe starting to bounce back, yay!
Posted by amigan on October 19, 2007, at 1:29:47
In reply to Re: No Libido on Cabergoline » Wonderment, posted by rvanson on October 17, 2007, at 2:21:56
Yes, bromocriptine is another option. What dosage do you recommend, btw?
Posted by rvanson on October 21, 2007, at 1:13:50
In reply to Re: No Libido on Cabergoline » rvanson, posted by amigan on October 19, 2007, at 1:29:47
> Yes, bromocriptine is another option. What dosage do you recommend, btw?
>
Since I am not an MD ordoctor so I wont disuss the dosages used; lets just say I'd start at a minimum PDR dose and work up from there.Funny though, as Cabergoline is the closest thing to a true aphrodisiac that I have seen in half a century in the of study of medications.
Too bad its so expensive ;-)
Posted by twinleaf on October 21, 2007, at 11:44:30
In reply to Re: No Libido on Cabergoline, posted by Wonderment on October 16, 2007, at 21:21:09
Just saw that you were taking 4000 IU of Vitamin D, and had to jump in to implore you not to take more than 800 IU a day. The amount you are taking is considered to be extremely toxic; it can lead to very serious changes in your calcitonin and serum calcium levels, and these in turn can be extremely damaging to your parathyroid glands and your kidneys. There is no conceivable benfit in doing something so dangerous.
PS I'm a doctor.
Posted by Wonderment on October 21, 2007, at 21:26:03
In reply to Re: No Libido on Cabergoline » Wonderment, posted by twinleaf on October 21, 2007, at 11:44:30
> Just saw that you were taking 4000 IU of Vitamin D, and had to jump in to implore you not to take more than 800 IU a day. The amount you are taking is considered to be extremely toxic; it can lead to very serious changes in your calcitonin and serum calcium levels, and these in turn can be extremely damaging to your parathyroid glands and your kidneys. There is no conceivable benfit in doing something so dangerous.
>
> PS I'm a doctor.Thanks for this. I've stopped the vitamin D, and now I'm taking 1000mg of calcium. Would you know how long it would take for the vitamin D to get down close to normal levels? I had been taking it for 3 weeks.
Thanks again
Posted by twinleaf on October 21, 2007, at 22:27:41
In reply to Re: No Libido on Cabergoline )) twinleaf, posted by Wonderment on October 21, 2007, at 21:26:03
The half-life of Vitamin D is variously estimated as between one and two months. If we settle on six weeks as a compromise, you will have half the serum levels then as you have at present. It will probably take close to a year for you to get it completely out of your system. So, you don't need to take any more Vitamin D for a year. After that, you could start again, perhaps at 400 IU. So glad you stopped!
Posted by Optimist on December 5, 2007, at 21:10:09
In reply to Re: No Libido on Cabergoline )) twinleaf » Wonderment, posted by twinleaf on October 21, 2007, at 22:27:41
> The half-life of Vitamin D is variously estimated as between one and two months. If we settle on six weeks as a compromise, you will have half the serum levels then as you have at present. It will probably take close to a year for you to get it completely out of your system. So, you don't need to take any more Vitamin D for a year. After that, you could start again, perhaps at 400 IU. So glad you stopped!
I think you're better off getting your Vitamin D levels checked first to determine your dosage. 400IU is a paltry dose and way too conservative for most people.
When in doubt get a blood test.
This is the end of the thread.
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