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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jimmyboy on September 4, 2007, at 11:31:28
Just out of curiosity - those of you who have tried scopolomine for depression- what dose did you take?
JB
Posted by Phillipa on September 4, 2007, at 12:13:10
In reply to SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage, posted by Jimmyboy on September 4, 2007, at 11:31:28
Jimmy thought that was for seasickness how does it affect depression or do I have the wrong med?Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on September 4, 2007, at 14:03:33
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage » Jimmyboy, posted by Phillipa on September 4, 2007, at 12:13:10
I tried it. It did help. I think I put on 2 3mg patches at once. It was too much though. You might want to start with one patch.
Not sure what the tablet equivilant is.
Linkadge
Posted by polarbear206 on September 4, 2007, at 17:01:23
In reply to SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage, posted by Jimmyboy on September 4, 2007, at 11:31:28
> Just out of curiosity - those of you who have tried scopolomine for depression- what dose did you take?
>
> JB
There was a big article on the back page of the local news yesterday about scopolomine for bipolar disorder and depression. NIMH research conducted, gave the drug via IV to patients trying to find the right dose for a brain-imaging study to test if it could improve memory and attention in depressed patients. They noticed that patients started feeling less depressed the night after the injections. From these results, they focused on the drug's effect on depression itself. Results were published in Octobor 06. You might want to see if you can locate the study. Patients were quoted as saying, it was the best night of sleep they'd had in many years, and woke up feeling a substantial lift of their depression. In many cases the improvement persisted for weeks or even months.
Polarbear
Posted by Jimmyboy on September 4, 2007, at 17:34:15
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage » Jimmyboy, posted by polarbear206 on September 4, 2007, at 17:01:23
Polarbear,
yes, I have seen that study and also know they are currently doing trials for unipolar and bipolar depression using both the skin patches and the pills. I was sort of interested in trying the pills , but on all of the info I have seen, they did not mention what dosage they were trying with the pills.
I also wonder if taking them once a day, that is, at night before bed, would be enough. I have taken it before for sea sickness and it makes you pretty drowsy, I would not want to walk around all day like that.
On another note- the article I saw two days ago about scopolamine also cited some interesting studies and stories on riluzole ( an ALS med)here is one I thought was interesting
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Psychiatry/brainwise/06_winter/riluzole_bipolar.html
Anyway, its ridiculously expensive, i mean out of this world, so its not an option. But interesting nontheless.JB
Posted by linkadge on September 4, 2007, at 19:26:52
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage » Jimmyboy, posted by polarbear206 on September 4, 2007, at 17:01:23
Yes, I had read the study you were referring to. It was a very fast acting antidepressant effect.
I have used it and it really seemd to get to the core of my bad mood.
The "darkness" left within a few hours of taking it. Emotions felt less "deep", less "intense", there was less of a sense of doom, and things felt simpler.
It gave me dry mouth and sensitive vision, but thats all really.
I didn't have a high, but had some mild deleriant like effects.
Its interesting, because I (personally) think it is the cholinergic M1 blockade that is responsable.
Seroquel too, is a very strong muscarinic M1 antagonist, and can have a strong effect in bipolar depression.The problem is that it costs like $10 a patch out of my pocket its just not feasable.
I would have tried a drug like cogentin (much like scopolamine) which I also had a very strong positive mood responce to, but no doctor would ever prescribe it for depression as it can be abused to get high.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on September 4, 2007, at 19:27:45
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage » polarbear206, posted by Jimmyboy on September 4, 2007, at 17:34:15
Thats the problem, is sometimes you feel so close yet so far away.
Linkadge
Posted by jhj on September 5, 2007, at 9:13:59
In reply to SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage, posted by Jimmyboy on September 4, 2007, at 11:31:28
I think Phase II study of scopolamine is underway for finding out its efficacy in unipolar depression.The study is being conducted by NIMH.Riluzole too is being studied for preventing relapse of depression for those patients who have responded to just one shot of Ketamine. Riluzole is also being studied as augmentor to the existing antidepressants on patients with Treatment resistant depression.
Posted by polarbear206 on September 5, 2007, at 12:10:35
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage » polarbear206, posted by linkadge on September 4, 2007, at 19:26:52
> Yes, I had read the study you were referring to. It was a very fast acting antidepressant effect.
>
> I have used it and it really seemd to get to the core of my bad mood.
>
> The "darkness" left within a few hours of taking it. Emotions felt less "deep", less "intense", there was less of a sense of doom, and things felt simpler.
>
> It gave me dry mouth and sensitive vision, but thats all really.
>
> I didn't have a high, but had some mild deleriant like effects.
>
> Its interesting, because I (personally) think it is the cholinergic M1 blockade that is responsable.
>
>
> Seroquel too, is a very strong muscarinic M1 antagonist, and can have a strong effect in bipolar depression.
>
> The problem is that it costs like $10 a patch out of my pocket its just not feasable.
>
> I would have tried a drug like cogentin (much like scopolamine) which I also had a very strong positive mood responce to, but no doctor would ever prescribe it for depression as it can be abused to get high.
>
> Linkadge
Just wondering, have you ever tried a tiny dose of Seroquel?Polarbear
Posted by linkadge on September 5, 2007, at 16:19:55
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage » linkadge, posted by polarbear206 on September 5, 2007, at 12:10:35
What do you mean by tiny?
Linkadge
Posted by polarbear206 on September 5, 2007, at 17:18:09
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage, posted by linkadge on September 5, 2007, at 16:19:55
> What do you mean by tiny?
>
> Linkadge
More like 12.5 mg, that would be spliting a 25mg tab.Polarbear
Posted by linkadge on September 5, 2007, at 19:51:42
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage, posted by polarbear206 on September 5, 2007, at 17:18:09
Yeah, I have. It does help a bit (low doses), but there is a lot of collateral effect.
Scopolamine was cleaner, ie no sedation, no strange movement, tachycardia etc.
Linkadge
Posted by Jimmyboy on September 6, 2007, at 16:26:45
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage, posted by linkadge on September 5, 2007, at 19:51:42
How long did it take to notice the AD effects of scopolamine?
How long did they last after you quit wearing the patch?
Was is a noticible/ strong effect?
Posted by linkadge on September 6, 2007, at 18:37:59
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage » linkadge, posted by Jimmyboy on September 6, 2007, at 16:26:45
The depression started to return about 2 days after taking off the patch. I crashed back into early REM sleep and woke up feeling terrable.
The most noticable effect I got was a reduction in my symptom I call "darkness". Its just a dark mood where "everything" has a negative spin on it. It blocked that effect, and I felt like my brain was less interested in analyzing the emotional depth to everything. It helped me feel like I was living more "in the moment" so to speak.
Linkadge
Posted by Jimmyboy on September 6, 2007, at 23:21:36
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage, posted by linkadge on September 6, 2007, at 18:37:59
Linkage,
Thank you for your response. I am very interested in trying it out. I have access to pills, so thats what I will try. My problem of late has been slipping into extremely negative critical moods for a few hours at a time, so this is definitely worth a shot. i will keep you posted with my results if you are interested.JB
Posted by Jimmyboy on September 6, 2007, at 23:34:37
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage » linkadge, posted by Jimmyboy on September 6, 2007, at 23:21:36
Interesting link on the subject
http://scienceblogs.com/corpuscallosum/2006/10/scopolamine_for_depression.php
Posted by Phillipa on September 6, 2007, at 23:40:10
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage, posted by Jimmyboy on September 6, 2007, at 23:34:37
Jimmy since people use the patches to prevent seasickness does it affect their mood? Better or worse or same? Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on September 7, 2007, at 8:20:42
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage » linkadge, posted by Jimmyboy on September 6, 2007, at 23:21:36
The interesting thing about scopolamine is that it could be combined with other drugs SSRI's, MAOI's or TCA's.
(Although TCA's are already strong anticholinergics which may actually account for some of their effect.)
If it works, you might be able to get a doctor to prescribe cogentin. Cogentin is a strong anticholinergic, but actually also a dopamine reuptake inhibitor!
Linkadge
Posted by Jimmyboy on September 8, 2007, at 16:15:45
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage, posted by linkadge on September 7, 2007, at 8:20:42
I got a scrip for the .4 mg tablets of scopolamine. I am going to start on Sunday night. i will post to tell everyone how it works out.
JB
Posted by linkadge on September 8, 2007, at 17:02:37
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage, posted by Jimmyboy on September 8, 2007, at 16:15:45
What country are you in? I don't think it is available by prescription in Canada, unfortunately.
Linkadge
Posted by Alvin on September 9, 2007, at 9:08:57
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage » Jimmyboy, posted by linkadge on September 8, 2007, at 17:02:37
My depression is very similar to what you both describe; and I'm getting somewhat desperate for relief from the pain - this despite the fact that I have upped my dosage of prozac.
Would you suggest scopolomine as an addition to the prozac or as a replacement? I ask because I am interested in anything that has the potential to avoid the rapid cycling that can occur with SSRIs.
I feel kind of hopeless; I'm desperate for relief.
Posted by linkadge on September 9, 2007, at 18:20:17
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage, posted by Alvin on September 9, 2007, at 9:08:57
Its hard to say what kind of effect scopolamine would have on the bipolar cycle, ie if it induces rapid cycling or not.
I noticed a reduction in irritability on scopolamine, (which can be a symptom of hypercholinergic activity).
The highly anticholinergic TCA's can also reduce some such as irritability, agitation, anxety, etc, that sometimes get lumped in with bipolar.
I would tend to think that an anticholinergic would synergise with an antidepressant, and perhaps reduce the necessary dose.
Linkadge
Posted by Jimmyboy on September 11, 2007, at 12:31:46
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage, posted by linkadge on September 9, 2007, at 18:20:17
I started taking .4 mg tabs 2 nights ago, not sure if I can tell any difference or not yet, although they definitely make you sleep harder..
I am not sure whether I need a higher dose or not, I guess it will just have to be trial and error, although I know scopolamine can be dangerous if you take too much , so that has me cooncerned.
JB
Posted by Jimmyboy on September 12, 2007, at 10:27:38
In reply to Re: SCOPOLOMINE for depression- dosage, posted by Jimmyboy on September 11, 2007, at 12:31:46
Well, I have been taing scopolamine for 3 days now. First two days I took 1 tablet and last night I took 2. I definitely feel better in some way, although its hard to pinpoint. Definitely not as drowsy when I wake up and just feel as if a little something has been lifted off my shoulders..more hopeful.
I am pretty sure its not placebo because I have tried many things the last few months with no success, and scopolamine is supposed to be very fast acting, which corresponds with my situation.
I would like to increase the dose even more, but I am not sure how many of them you can take safely.If anyone knows , please let me know.
JB
This is the end of the thread.
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