![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by brooke484 on July 23, 2007, at 13:24:55
than when I started. I am so tired of this. The anxiety, palpitations, upset stomach (I've lost 10 lbs), fatigue, etc. It's been 8 weeks of hell and I can't take it anymore. So I guess it's on to something else. Marplan, EMSAM, or back on Klonopin, the only drug that gets rid of this derealization but one that I'm too scared to take again (withdrawal was horrible). I thought Nardil was supposed to help anxiety not make it 5 times worse. Sorry for all the complaining but I'm very disappointed. 11 years ago I didn't have any of these side effects and I felt probably 50% better. I guess they did change the formula. What a pity.
brooke
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on July 23, 2007, at 14:06:39
In reply to 8 weeks on nardil and I feel worse..., posted by brooke484 on July 23, 2007, at 13:24:55
I'm sorry about this, Brooke. It's such a bummer.
I'm on Nardil for 6 weeks now, and it hasn't been paradise (like it was on my first SSRI) but I do feel some reduction in depression symptoms.
What is your dose? (I'm on 60mgs--45mgs did nothing.)
And why did you stop the older Nardil 11 years ago?
Gosh, these pharmaceutical companies are serious about making their money at the expense of patients. God knows what they did to Nardil, but they surely made sure Nardil consumers would eventually end up disappointed and trying their new drugs. This is just unbelievable and awful.
I don't know to what extent is Nardil truly helping me, I don't feel the amazing relief I felt on my first SSRI (which pooped out unfortunately), I feel slight relief, but I still don't know if all the side effects and contraindications will be worth in the long run, since the med isn't all that amazing.
Have you spoken to your doc about it? Have you tried a higher dose? (I'm on 60mgs now, since 45mgs wasn't doing anything.)
Well, good luck and I hope you find a way to feel better soon.
Sincerely,
GI78
Posted by Sigismund on July 23, 2007, at 14:43:16
In reply to 8 weeks on nardil and I feel worse..., posted by brooke484 on July 23, 2007, at 13:24:55
So derealization is your main symptom?
How effective is Nardil generally for that?
Or do you see derealization as part of depression?
Or depression as a response to long term deralisation?
Posted by FredPotter on July 23, 2007, at 15:44:18
In reply to 8 weeks on nardil and I feel worse..., posted by brooke484 on July 23, 2007, at 13:24:55
Brooke I feel guilty that I may have been one of the people who encouraged the use of Nardil. All I can say is it worked for me. I'm now on 75mg/day Perhaps you should try a higher dosage before giving it up. I must admit the dizziness, weight gain and lack of sexual feeling is beginning to bug me. But it's better than depression. If it starts to poop out I'll see if I can try Tianeptine, in the absence of a Dr who'd try Ketamine (hollow laugh).
I read somewhere that adding nortryptiline to Nardil can make it work better, although I'd be worried about increasing serotonin too much. But I gather a lot of TCAs like nortryptiline have their main effect via norepinephrine.
The recommendation to take Marplan for depersonalisation and derealisation I've only seen once. Why it works for that but Nardil doesn't no-one knows, if it's true. But dep/der is a terrible way to go through life. Years ago when I had it badly and chronically, I used to worry myself sick about what it meant. At least these days we know it means absolutely Nothing
Fred
Posted by Phillipa on July 23, 2007, at 17:22:19
In reply to Re: 8 weeks on nardil and I feel worse... » brooke484, posted by FredPotter on July 23, 2007, at 15:44:18
Brooke I'm sor sorry. Love Phillipa
Posted by brooke484 on July 23, 2007, at 20:10:21
In reply to Re: 8 weeks on nardil and I feel worse... » brooke484, posted by girlnterrupted78 on July 23, 2007, at 14:06:39
I'm glad you're seeing some improvement. I have had none and I'm too afraid to up the dose. WHen I went from 45 to 60 I got the worst side effects ever. So now I'm back to 45 with the same side effects. I don't know how long that will last, but this anxiety is killing me. I see my doctor this SAt and I'm going to tell him I want off this drug.
And yes, I took Nardil for about 3-4 months and it did work, but not as much as I wanted it to. I would say it helped me about 50%. Well, I didn't want 50%, I wanted to feel 100% better, but maybe that's just not possible.
Anyway, at least you're doing better and I'm glad.
brooke
Posted by brooke484 on July 23, 2007, at 20:15:14
In reply to Re: 8 weeks on nardil and I feel worse... » brooke484, posted by FredPotter on July 23, 2007, at 15:44:18
I'm too scared to go any higher. When I went from 45 to 60 that's when the side effects were unbearable. This has been 3 weeks now. I just can't take it anymore. I hate to give up but I'm really suffering.
I also saw some info about Marplan and DR/DP. Marplan would cost a lot more but maybe I'll give it a try anyway. I'm just so disappointed this didn't work, even a little bit. But, I'm happy to hear you're doing so well. It gives others hope!
brooke
Posted by brooke484 on July 23, 2007, at 20:22:35
In reply to Re: 8 weeks on nardil and I feel worse... » brooke484, posted by Sigismund on July 23, 2007, at 14:43:16
So derealization is your main symptom?
Yes. It has been since 1994.
How effective is Nardil generally for that?
The first time I took it in 1996 it helped about 50%. This time nothing.
Or do you see derealization as part of depression?
Or depression as a response to long term deralisation?Both!
I'm a mess!
brooke
Posted by brooke484 on July 23, 2007, at 20:23:13
In reply to Re: 8 weeks on nardil and I feel worse... » FredPotter, posted by Phillipa on July 23, 2007, at 17:22:19
Thanks. I'll get through it somehow. I'm strong.
Posted by Sigismund on July 24, 2007, at 2:53:37
In reply to Re: 8 weeks on nardil and I feel worse - sigismund, posted by brooke484 on July 23, 2007, at 20:22:35
The book I'm reading at the moment "Feeling Unreal" suggests that depression (and anxiety and drugs) can cause derealization, can be a result of it, and can be completely separate from it.
It's a very interesting read.
Posted by brooke484 on July 24, 2007, at 9:14:28
In reply to Re: 8 weeks on nardil and I feel worse - sigismund » brooke484, posted by Sigismund on July 24, 2007, at 2:53:37
I read some of that book. It's by Daphne Simeon right? I saw her in NYC years ago and we tried Prozac (80 mgs) but that didn't work either. It was some research study they were doing. I'm sure it's still going on.
brooke
Posted by brooke484 on July 24, 2007, at 9:19:49
In reply to 8 weeks on nardil and I feel worse..., posted by brooke484 on July 23, 2007, at 13:24:55
Just curious if anyone knows. Isn't it effective? I'm getting desperate here.
Posted by Sigismund on July 24, 2007, at 14:28:37
In reply to Re: 8 weeks on nardil and I feel worse - sigismund, posted by brooke484 on July 24, 2007, at 9:14:28
Yes, that's her.
One of the things mentioned in the book was that SSRIs are not effective for depersonalisation, but can sometimes be effective for associated depressive states.
This got me thinking as to whether tianeptine (working the other way) might be useful, especially as it seems a little grounding, prosocial and prosensual.
Nothing seems very effective for depersonalisation. As you would know depersonalisation is scary and depressing.
I'm just wondering.
Posted by brooke484 on July 24, 2007, at 20:50:49
In reply to Depersonalisation » brooke484, posted by Sigismund on July 24, 2007, at 14:28:37
I don't know that drug. For me the only drugs that worked were imipramine (400 mgs) and lexapro (20 mgs). Also klonopin is effective, but the withdrawal was so bad I'm afraid to go back on it. However, I think I feel worse now than when I was going through that 4 years ago so maybe I should reconsider.
Yes, DP/DR is horrible. I'm living a nightmare. I would do anything to end this torture.
Posted by n_shrimpie on May 17, 2012, at 19:57:11
In reply to 8 weeks on nardil and I feel worse..., posted by brooke484 on July 23, 2007, at 13:24:55
Brooke,
I've been suffering from horrid derealization for the last 2 years, and i just started taking valium which was a HUGE help. It's addictive, so my doc prescribed gabapentin, which also works on gaba, and i'm going to see if that helps.
Posted by Phillipa on May 17, 2012, at 22:07:49
In reply to Re: 8 weeks on nardil and I feel worse..., posted by n_shrimpie on May 17, 2012, at 19:57:11
My next door neighbor takes it xanax and says it really helps with her sleep. Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.