![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 35. Go back in thread:
Posted by KayeBaby on July 12, 2007, at 20:24:55
In reply to Re: Awful, pounding headache on Nardil/GI78 » stargazer2, posted by girlnterrupted78 on July 12, 2007, at 19:18:46
there are headaches and then there are HEADACHES.
I am an EMT and we are taught to take anyone who states "this is the worst heardache of my life" very seriously.
The lower back of the head with a throbbing quality is indicative of high BP. (and a million other things as well)Are you having nosebleeds, flushing-anything else?
You need to let your dr. know just what you told us.
Take Care,
Kaye
Posted by Phillipa on July 12, 2007, at 20:31:35
In reply to Re: Awful, pounding headache on Nardil » Phillipa, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on July 12, 2007, at 2:35:22
Ace pops in every now and then he is very busy in his life. Scool and a job. UGottahave hope told me he's just taking a break. Hope this helps. Love Phillipa
Posted by stargazer2 on July 12, 2007, at 21:39:12
In reply to Re: Awful, pounding headache on Nardil/GI78 » stargazer2, posted by girlnterrupted78 on July 12, 2007, at 19:18:46
GI78, You can have the "worse headache of your life" if you have a tyramine (food) reaction to Nardil. But Nardil can also cause low Bp in many of us especially when the dosage is increased too rapidly and the side effects are typically lightheadedness and dizziness, like you described. The MD said go to the ER becasue the assumption is that the headache is caused by a food reaction and the result is hypertension (high BP) and that is a medical emergency. Any headache that is so severe has to be worked up as a possible "cheese" headache or something else, or another life threatening event.
The potential for low BP exists just in taking Nardil and my reaction is this, but not to the degree that you have it, but I only went up to 60 mg and just came down to 45 mg. I'm curious what the cause of your headache was and what the ER determined the cause was. What did they do for you and was your BP very low where they had to give you medication and/or fluids?
I have had severe headaches from low BP and low sugar, as well, that is why I suggested if the high BP was not causing the headache it could be low BP from too high a dose of Nardil. You shouldn't get so bad that you feel you are going to fall down constantly. The only way to know for sure is by taking your BP during any episode of having the headache or extreme lightheadness. My reaction to Nardil is low BP around 90/50, but not so low as your BP might be and this may account for more severe side effects for you. 90 mg is a dose usually for someone large, so if you are closer to 150, a much lower dose may be indicated. MD's are not that experienced with MAO's and may not be adjsuting the dosage adequately and the side effects may be much worse than they need to be if the dosage was increased more slowly.
Hope this helps explain some of what may be going on and get a BP cuff if you don't have one, since you may be able to avoid another trip tothe ER and your doctor should beware if your BP is lower than 90/50. That is getting too low and can cause you to pass out. Are you on anyother meds with Nardil?
Stargazer
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on July 13, 2007, at 6:47:30
In reply to Re: Awful, pounding headache on Nardil/GI78, posted by stargazer2 on July 12, 2007, at 21:39:12
> The potential for low BP exists just in taking Nardil and my reaction is this, but not to the degree that you have it, but I only went up to 60 mg and just came down to 45 mg.
So you also had a bad headache when you went up to 60mgs? What kind of headache was it, and how severe? Was it a pounding headache in the occipital area that lasted more than half an hour and was very intense? Did you have syncope too?
> I'm curious what the cause of your headache was and what the ER determined the cause was. What did they do for you and was your BP very low where they had to give you medication and/or fluids?
This is what the ER report says:
"Your exam shows your headache does not have any specific cause. Headaches are caused by many different things including stress, tension and high blood pressure. Rarely headaches may be due to bleeding and tumors in the brain. Although your exam today does not indicate that you have a serious cause, it is very important that you see you doctor for further evaluation if it does not get better in 1-2 days"
> I have had severe headaches from low BP and low sugar, as well, that is why I suggested if the high BP was not causing the headache it could be low BP from too high a dose of Nardil. You shouldn't get so bad that you feel you are going to fall down constantly. The only way to know for sure is by taking your BP during any episode of having the headache or extreme lightheadness. My reaction to Nardil is low BP around 90/50, but not so low as your BP might be and this may account for more severe side effects for you.This is what the ER report says about my syncope episode:
"Your exam shows that you have had an episode of syncope or fainting. This is a problem that can be brought on by many different conditions including: *Physical pain, heat exhaustion and emotional distress, *Reactions to certain medications (especially blood pressure pills), *Dehydration, alcohol intoxication and internal bleeding, *Heart disease, circulatory problems and nervous system disorders.
Fainting usually occurs when the blood pressure or pulse is too low to provide enough blood flow to the brain to keep you conscious. Warning signs that you are about to faint include dizziness, nausea, body numbness, vision disturbance, and turning pale. If you feel these symptoms or like you are about to faint, please lie do down flat right away; wait until all the symptoms have passed before you get up again. Most people recover from a fainting episode in a few minutes but they may feel tired for several hours. Fainting is not usually caused by a serious medical problem. Taking your pulse during a fainting spell may help with the diagnosis."> 90 mg is a dose usually for someone large, so if you are closer to 150, a much lower dose may be indicated. MD's are not that experienced with MAO's and may not be adjusting the dosage adequately and the side effects may be much worse than they need to be if the dosage was increased more slowly.
I'm 5'7 and my weight is 130lbs. It was in fact my p-doc who increased the dose straight from 45mgs to 90mgs. He STARTED me on 45mgs. I secretly went up to 60mgs before going up to 90mgs, but then I decided to try 90mgs and within 4 days, one evening, 30 minutes after taking Nardil, the headache started like a bomb in my head.
> Hope this helps explain some of what may be going on and get a BP cuff if you don't have one, since you may be able to avoid another trip to the ER and your doctor should beware if your BP is lower than 90/50. That is getting too low and can cause you to pass out. Are you on anyother meds with Nardil?I only take clonazepam (besides Nardil,) and I don't take it on a regular basis, just as needed.
I don't remember my BP at the ER, but the doctor said it was an excellent BP and that lots of patients wish they had it.
But I am 100% certain that the 90mgs of Nardil are the culprit. I experimented with it. I took 90mgs twice after the first episode of the pounding headache, and each time, the headache was back. One time I took the 90mgs on an empty stomach (to check for food interaction) and the pain was there within 30 minutes, without food or anything else. It was the NARDIL alone. I counted the time. It started half an hour after taking the 90mgs, and the headache lasted a little over half an hour. The first pain episode lasted longer, like an hour and a half, because I waited a while in the ER and I still had it (albeit less severe) when I finally got to see the doctor. When I saw the doctor, the pain had gone from the occipital to the center of my head and was less severe.
Once I went down to 60mgs then there was no pain at all. I just feel my heart pounding faster in my chest with a little bit of anxiety (very mild.)
As for Nardil working, it is in fact helping more than the other SSRIs, but not in the way other people describe, like "you'll know exactly when it kicked in because it will be like a flash of light.." (or something like that they used to say..) They were probably referring to the old Nardil. This Nardil helps, but I think it's not as amazing as the old version used to be. Which is really sad. I wish there was a way to bring back the other Nardil. Do you know if the old Nardil still gets manufactured somewhere else in the world? Maybe Europe? Canada?
Thanks a lot for your input, it's greatly appreciated.
GI78
Posted by stargazer2 on July 13, 2007, at 9:05:50
In reply to Re: Awful, pounding headache on Nardil/GI78 » stargazer2, posted by girlnterrupted78 on July 13, 2007, at 6:47:30
GI, I have not had a headache with Nardil at all as I only have gone up to 60 mg and I weigh more than you. I think going from 45 to 90 was a mistake so that is the cause of your H/A's.
How long have you been on Nardil? I've been on it for about 2 mos now and do not intend to go higher than 45 or 60. Too many side effects and unknowns about the MAO's and your reaction confirms this. Is you pdoc aware of the H/A and what did he say to do with the dosage?
Yes, I took the older version back in 1989 and a light went off before a week (on 30 mg) was out so it definately was a phenomenal drug which Pfizer had to go and mess up by changing the formulation despite them saying the 2 pills are the same. They are not as we all know, especially those that were on nardil at the time of the reformulation and who were stable on it, decompensated and were hospitalized as a result of the changed formula, specifically the way it is absorbed (too quickly).
I have had severe headaches in the past unrelated to nardil but related to low BP and this I suspect was the cause of your headaches, precipitated by the doubling of the nardil dose. Increases are supposed to be no more frequently than once a week to the next higher dose (45 to 60 to 75...). It is too dangerous to mess with the MAO's in this way and I wonder how experienced you pdoc is with MAO's. I hope he/she understands the seriousness of the doubling of the dosage was the precipitant of your headaches, no doubt about it.
Best wishes and no more 90 mg! maybe 75 at the highest would be OK but any H/a should be reportd to your pdoc as an emergent side effect.
Stargazer
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on July 13, 2007, at 11:28:01
In reply to Re: Awful, pounding headache on Nardil/GI78, posted by stargazer2 on July 13, 2007, at 9:05:50
Hi Stargazer,
I think you misunderstood my post. My pdoc switched me from 45mgs straight to 90mgs. *I* did not go straight to 90mgs. I secretly did 60mgs in between for several days. So there was a period in between the 45 and the 90 where I was on 60. You probably missed that part of my post, but that's how it really went.
Thanks for your input,
GI78
Posted by stargazer2 on July 13, 2007, at 12:43:47
In reply to Re: Awful, pounding headache on Nardil/GI78 » stargazer2, posted by girlnterrupted78 on July 13, 2007, at 11:28:01
GI,that is the downside of this type of forum, misunderstanding, but I got the whole picture.
I know you went from 45 to 90 with a few doses of 60 thrown in there...The bottom line is that MAO increases should be done no more frequently than once a week at the next level, not skipping or doubling the dosage. I believe your doc made a serious mistake by increasing you so rapidly.
A pounding headache is one to be taken seriously so that is why you were sent to the ER. The liklihood of it being a reaction to food eaten with MAO's is a typical scenerio for a hypertensive crisis, but in your case, the dosage increase was the culprit, not a food reaction. Hopefully you are back to 45 or 60 and will increase only 15 mg at a time from now on.
What does your pdoc say about all of this????That is the bottom line.
Stargazer
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on July 13, 2007, at 19:22:01
In reply to No misunderstanding, dose increase caused H/A's, posted by stargazer2 on July 13, 2007, at 12:43:47
> I know you went from 45 to 90 with a few doses of 60 thrown in there...
I think it might have been a whole week that I was on 60mgs. It's strange that I didn't get the pain right away (the first day I started on90mgs.)
I was on 90mgs for 4 days in a row, and it was until the 4th or 5th day that the pain hit me--as hard as a bomb.>I believe your doc made a serious mistake by increasing you so rapidly.
Yeah, that was a mistake. But I still love this p-doc! It's the only doctor ever who agreed to give me Nardil after years of looking. He'll give me what I want, no questions asked. I had to wait like 5 years to try Nardil because no p-doc would prescribe. But this p-doc is very generous--started me on 45mgs, and then took me all the way to 90mgs. I know that might be a mistake on his part, but I'd rather get 90mgs than remain on 30mgs for a month, which was my main problem with previous p-docs--they'd be so overly cautious to the point that it took months for them to actually give me a therapeutic dose for any antidepressant.
By the way, the 90mgs were split: 45mgs in the morning and 45mgs at bedtime. Is that also a mistake?
> A pounding headache is one to be taken seriously so that is why you were sent to the ER.I wasn't "sent" to the ER. I went myself. My doctor never explained what kind of headache would require a visit to the ER. He simply said "if you get a headache, go to the ER" That was it. He never described intensity or region, or whether pounding was part of it. So basically I had no clue what kind of headache to expect. Headaches are also a side-effect of Nardil, so how to know what headache is the one? I actually thought I'd never get a headache from a food reaction because of how cautious I knew I would be: First of all, I'm vegan, so there's zero cheese in my diet, and zero dry sausages, salami, livers, etc, etc...
Second, who is going to eat a banana peel? Not me! lol. So the only things I had to really avoid were soy sauce, yeast, miso soup, and chanti/vermouth/tap beer. Pretty easy, if you ask me. I just knew for a fact that it was EXTREMELY unlikely that I'd get a reaction.
The only reason I suspected a reaction is that I was eating a soy yogurt when the headache started--TERRIBLE COINCIDENCE!!! The soy yogurt, unfortunately, is NOT listed in the booklet I have at all (neither as (1)a food to avoid, (2)food to eat occasionally, or(3)food without restriction--so I was clueless if it was a reaction to the soy.) Soy milk is listed as a food to eat without restriction, and yogurt (milk yogurt) is also unrestricted--so I assumed soy yogurt was fine. At that point I figured I had screwed up with that yogurt and the pain was intense, so I knew something was terribly wrong.
> Hopefully you are back to 45 or 60 and will increase only 15 mg at a time from now on.
Yeah, I am on 60mgs now and doing pretty good. I didn't feel any AD effects on 45mgs, so I guess I'll remain on 60mgs for the time being, and who knows.. maybe I don't need to go to 90mgs. Since my weight is 130--if I use the formula suggested (weight/2.2) it shows my optimal dose is 60mgs, so I will stay on that for the time being and see how it goes.
> What does your pdoc say about all of this???? That is the bottom line.
Actually, I haven't seen him at all. I have an appointment with him in a week. Unfortunately, I have to go to a low-cost clinic, where if you miss an appointment, you get pushed back in the schedule several weeks later. I missed an apt with him 2 weeks ago, so I don't get to see him till then. I also can't call him because he's there only 2 days a week and he's so booked that he doesn't seem to be able to answer the phone. Since the situation is now under control, I'd rather give him the details in person anyway.
Thanks again for your response, Stargazer. It's greatly appreciated.
GI78
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on July 13, 2007, at 19:39:18
In reply to No misunderstanding, dose increase caused H/A's, posted by stargazer2 on July 13, 2007, at 12:43:47
Sorry, I forgot to ask you (I think I asked before)
Do you know if the old Nardil is still manufactured in some foreign country? Europe/Canada?
Do Europe and Canada get their Nardil from Pfizer as well, or do they manufacture their own? Could they possibly be still formulating the old version?
Please let me know if you have any info on this.
Thanks again,
GI78
Posted by brooke484 on July 13, 2007, at 19:48:03
In reply to Awful, pounding headache on Nardil, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on July 11, 2007, at 6:07:18
You said you're a vegan. Do you use any homepathic medicine? I used to take Hyland's, but haven't since I started Nardil. I looked online but haven't been able to find any info. Do you know if you can you mix the two?
Thanks.
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on July 13, 2007, at 20:14:49
In reply to GI78 - question regarding homeopathic meds, posted by brooke484 on July 13, 2007, at 19:48:03
Hi Brooke,
I don't take any homeopathic medicine. Do vegan people take that? Never heard of it before. Can you tell me more about it or why vegans take it? Sorry I can't be of much help on that, I'm just not familiar with it and never been on any homeopathic medications.
Thanks,
GI78
Posted by stargazer2 on July 13, 2007, at 20:44:53
In reply to Re: PS--forgot to ask » stargazer2, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on July 13, 2007, at 19:39:18
GI, all I know is that the 'new' Nardil is manufactured in France, but I am unaware if you can get the 'old' Nardil anywhere else. I think if it were available, many of us would already know how to get it and I have never heard anyone say they were able to get it elsewhere.
If it is available, I would like to know this as well...SG
P.S. Sorry your doc is so unavailable to you, he will be very interested in the reaction you had with the 90 mg dose. You are probably safe from the "food" headaches since your diet is so specific but a pounding headache is usually something that will require an ER visit unless it subsides in an hour or so, but you probably will not experience this now given your reduction in dosage. Also, you have no way to know if your BP is high or low without a BP cuff. Low is a less urgent situation, you just push fluids and lay down and the BP should go up on it's own. Obviously if the BP is very high or very low, a trip to the ER or urgent center is recommended.
Posted by Phillipa on July 13, 2007, at 21:19:21
In reply to ANYONE.. What is Availability of OLD Nardil???, posted by stargazer2 on July 13, 2007, at 20:44:53
Stargazer wish Ace was here he knows how to make the nardil work. Can't remember if he said old Nardil in Australia. I'll find out for you now I should be able to. Love Phillipa
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on July 14, 2007, at 4:28:37
In reply to ANYONE.. What is Availability of OLD Nardil???, posted by stargazer2 on July 13, 2007, at 20:44:53
Hey Stargazer, I asked you something above, you might have missed it:
Do you think the way my pdoc split the 90mgs dose might have contributed to the headaches?
He told me to take 45mgs with breakfast and 45mgs at bedtime. Do you think if I had split the doses (30-30-30) 30mgs in the morning, 30mgs mid-day and 30mgs at bedtime, maybe I would not have gotten the headaches? I'm just pondering, because now that I think about it, 45mgs all at once seems like a whole lot.
Thanks,
GI78
Posted by brooke484 on July 14, 2007, at 8:33:40
In reply to Re: GI78 - question regarding homeopathic meds » brooke484, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on July 13, 2007, at 20:14:49
I didn't mean to imply that all vegans take homeopathic medicine. I just thought that maybe you did. Sorry.
Posted by brooke484 on July 14, 2007, at 8:34:48
In reply to Re: ANYONE.. What is Availability of OLD Nardil??? » stargazer2, posted by Phillipa on July 13, 2007, at 21:19:21
The old nardil is definitely not sold in Australia.
Posted by stargazer2 on July 14, 2007, at 10:51:58
In reply to Re: Awful pounding headache on Nardil » stargazer2, posted by girlnterrupted78 on July 14, 2007, at 4:28:37
GI,I think no matter what way it was given, 90 is just too much to increase to. I have no idea whether or not you would get a headache if you split the dose since I've never gone above 60 but splitting the dose is usually what is recommended with MAO's. The MD's have suggested taking the bulk of the dosage at bedtime to prevent afternoon sleepiness. I take 45 all at night, just reduced myself from 60 mg.
Seriously, I would not recommend that 90 mg dosage before holding at 60mg for a week and then 75mg for a week, even based on what your MD says. I don't think he is an expert in MAO's, although many other AD's can be increased more quickly than the MAO's.
The reason MAO's went out of favor is the reactions with food and the seriousness of the side effects. I would not mess around with a dose of 90 unless you take 60 and than 70 for a full week to see if you experience another headache. Perhaps 60 or 75 mg will work better than a higher dose.
What is the urgency of going to 90 mg? Haven't you proven it may really cause you a serious side effect even though you can't replicate it and even with trying other ways to take it. I just think you have to be careful because many docs don't know alot about MAO's and if you end up in the hospital with a severe H/A again, they could give you a medication that can be fatal. (ex. Libby Zion case in NYC, was on Nardil, I believe, given a contraindicated drug in the hospital, which killed her).
Hospitals are even not that familiar with MAO's. It's up to us and our docs to play it really safe.
Stargazer
Posted by stargazer2 on July 14, 2007, at 11:01:20
In reply to Re: Awful pounding headache on Nardil, posted by stargazer2 on July 14, 2007, at 10:51:58
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on July 14, 2007, at 12:18:15
In reply to Re: Awful pounding headache on Nardil, posted by stargazer2 on July 14, 2007, at 10:51:58
> What is the urgency of going to 90 mg? Haven't you proven it may really cause you a serious side effect even though you can't replicate it and even with trying other ways to take it.
I didn't say I'm planning on going back on 90mgs. I only asked if the cause of the headache could have been the way I split the dose (45mgs all at once--which again, was my pdoc's instruction, not my choice.)
I actually mentioned I would stay on 60mgs because it is the best dose based on the formula: weight/2.2 = 60. So I'm staying on 60mgs, not going back to 90mgs.
I only asked about the split question to figure out whether taking 45mgs all at once could be a bad choice. Who knows? I have no clue if that could have been part of it. I didn't mean to imply I was planning on going back to 90mgs. I was pondering whether 45mgs of Nardil at once might be too much for my system--that way, I'll always make sure I split my doses always small, even now that I'm on 60mgs.
Sorry, another misunderstanding.
> I just think you have to be careful because many docs don't know alot about MAO's and if you end up in the hospital with a severe H/A again, they could give you a medication that can be fatal. (ex. Libby Zion case in NYC, was on Nardil, I believe, given a contraindicated drug in the hospital, which killed her.
I'm being very careful. I quit the 90mgs on my own and went down to 60mgs on my own. I followed my judgment on this. I haven't seen my doc, but once I see him, I'll see what he has to say. I'm really curious about his reaction/input. He told me he only has 1 more patient on an MAOI, so I'm going to ask him about that other patient as well and their dose.
> Hospitals are even not that familiar with MAO's. It's up to us and our docs to play it really safe.
I know, and I'm going to do everything possible to make sure this is the first and last time I end up having to go to the ER.
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on July 14, 2007, at 12:22:13
In reply to GI...'Watch out for yourself ' post below, READ (nm), posted by stargazer2 on July 14, 2007, at 11:01:20
I'm sorry, I can't figure out which post you're referring to. Which one is it?
Posted by stargazer2 on July 14, 2007, at 13:23:25
In reply to Re: GI...'Watch out for yourself ' post below, REA » stargazer2, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on July 14, 2007, at 12:22:13
Third from the bottom is another post re: doctors being clueless about the interactions of MAO's.
Sorry for all the misunderstandings...I some difficulty following PB sometimes. My responses are sometimes more general than someone is expecting them to be.
I have no idea about splitting 90 mg since i never took it, that would be a question for someone more familiar with the higher doses. But you are small to average in size, so 90 mg seems way too high for you. Just my opinion...
SG
Posted by OzLand on July 15, 2007, at 23:25:12
In reply to Re: Awful, pounding headache on Nardil/GI78 » girlnterrupted78, posted by KayeBaby on July 12, 2007, at 20:24:55
I agree with KayeBaby; I don't know if this is analogous to hypertensive crisis or not. Belive me, the worst headache I ever had was when I did go into hypertensive crisis years ago on Parnate and when I took a bunch of time released Contac's in a suicide attempt. I ended up in the cardiac intensive care unit, and I am darn lucky I did not have a stroke. My bp was really high; I think it was 200+ over 180 or something like that. Never again. I stayed on Parnate at that time because after what I went through my pdoc knew I would never try that again.
OzLand
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on July 16, 2007, at 8:46:12
In reply to Re: Awful, pounding headache on Nardil/GI78 » KayeBaby, posted by OzLand on July 15, 2007, at 23:25:12
Thanks for sharing, OzLand.
Can you tell me what prompted your hypertensive crisis? What did you eat, and how long did it take for your to get the headache once you ate the prohibited food?
Also, what kind of headache was it? Was it pounding in your head? Did it start in the occipital region of the head? How long did it last, and did it stay in the occipital or spread throughout your head?
What was your dose of Parnate at the time?
If you could give more details I'd really appreciate it.
Thanx,
GI78
Posted by Oppycat on July 17, 2007, at 7:36:11
In reply to Awful, pounding headache on Nardil, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on July 11, 2007, at 6:07:18
> I started taking Nardil a month ago. I started with 45mgs, which didn't do much, went up to 60mgs, and then my p-doc said "try 90mgs" so I did.
>
> Anyway, I started on 90mgs, and I had been on 90mgs for 4 days when this happened:
>
> I was eating dinner (I take 45mgs of Nardil with breakfast and 45mgs with dinner.)
> I had 45mgs right before dinner, and I had a soy yogurt. Half way through the yogurt, the lower back of my head began pounding really really hard and painfully, nonstop. It was easily the worst headache I've ever had. I immediately stopped eating the yogurt and I figured, it must have been the soy. I didn't really want to go to the ER, (my p-doc said "if you have a headache, go to the ER!!") I waited ten minutes to see if the pain would subside, but it didn't. I was willing to wait more, but I started getting scared, and if I didn't go, I knew my p-doc might never trust me again and even take me off the Nardil. So I went.
>
> To make a story short, my BP was perfectly normal. So I was sent back home. They said it could've been a "transient reaction" but so far, I didn't have a hypertensive reaction at that point (in the ER.)
>
> Next morning, I had my breakfast with soy milk (my list of foods lists soy milk in the 3rd category: 1.Foods to avoid, 2.Foods to eat occasionally, 3.Foods to eat without restriction. Yogurts aren't listed at all, so I figured soy milk was ok. Well, within half an hour, the horrible pounding headache started all over again.
>
> Fine, next time I went to the store and got RICE milk. This can't be a problem, I figured. Well, shockingly as it sounds, the story repeated and the headache was back. At this point I knew something was wrong. It just couldn't be the rice milk too, and why was the soy milk listed as safe if it wasn't? -- that was too much .. So I decided to do an experiment. The next morning I had my 45mgs of Nardil on an empty stomach and decided to wait and have breakfast an hour later. And bingo! Yes, the pounding headache came within half an hour(before I had anything to eat) and lasted another half an hour. It was unbearable. I'd walk all over my room trying different positions to see if I could stop it even for even just 10 seconds, and no matter what I did (lie down, sit down, stand up) it would not stop. Finally I found a position though, where it managed to stop for like 20 seconds;I arched my back and my head as much as I could.. and the pounding got transfered to my neck without the pain, but within 20 seconds the position was obsolete and it started again.
>
> Later that day, once the pain was gone, I decided to try my soy milk (which I had been sad to let go of, and left in the fridge just ready to dump it..) well, no reaction! Soy yogurt, no reaction! So it was none of the above, it was the NARDIL ITSELF!!!
>
> Does anybody know why am I having horrific headaches on 90mgs of Nardil? What on earth is going on? I mean, I never heard of anyone having pounding headaches unless they're having a reaction, but I had those headaches just with the Nardil itself. Anyway, ever since, I went down to 60mgs, I don't get the headaches anymore, all I get is a painless pounding in my chest, and a little bit of anxiety with it (which doesn't bother me all that much.)
>
> I also developed syncope from taking Nardil. I keep getting very light headed when I have to do big efforts or when I get up from bed. One night I got up to use the restroom (I had been deep asleep), and half way through, I saw everything black and lost my equilibrium, lost half my consciousness and fell on the floor hitting my head and knocking everything around down.
>
> Anyway--sorry about the long post--but if anybody has had these side effects with Nardil, or knows anything about them, I'd appreciate any info you could give me. I don't get to see my p-doc until in 2 weeks, so I will get his input later on.
>
> Thanks a lot
> GI78
I agree with Stargazer2 and other posters that the precipitous increase to 90mg was probably the culprit that caused the headaches. I also agree that you should get a blood pressure cuff. You can get a decent one for around $50. Severe headaches are not something to take lightly.
>
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Posted by OzLand on July 17, 2007, at 23:10:41
In reply to Re: Awful, pounding headache on Nardil/GI78 » OzLand, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on July 16, 2007, at 8:46:12
Well, as I said in response to KayeBaby, I did not "eat" anything prohibitive that time. I "ate" almost an entire box of time released antihistimine tablets (Contac). This was a suicide attempt, and one I would NEVER recommend. The headache was so severe and all over my head--front, back, sides, top. I felt like my head was going to explode. It was horrible. At the time I was on 30 mg. of Parnate per day, and the headache came on after about 10 minutes max, I think. I had "eloped" from the hospital to do this, and my doctor came looking for me and found me and was the one who took me to the ER of the general hospital. He was my hospital doctor and later therapist, and I loved him dearly. He died in 2004, but I had not seen him for therapy since 1997. Still, it was a major blow to me.
Otherwise, when I have eaten something without realizing it had something in it prohibitive. I have gotten mild headaches from this mostly in the temples and back of my head. There are lists, and there are lists regarding what is prohibited to eat. Soy is one of the no, no's on my list that I use, as I get mild to moderate headaches when I eat Chinese food. There are some other foods as well, and others I know to stay away from entirely like aged cheeses of any sort or red wine of any sort. I had a glass of White Zinfindel with dinner last night with my women's group when we went to an Italian restaurant--always a danger due to the cheeses. But I ate a clam and artichoke dish with noodles that was yummy and had no cheese in it. At this time I take 40 mg. of Parnate per day.
This is the end of the thread.
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