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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 37. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by brooke484 on June 14, 2007, at 9:51:35
I brought this up before but wanted some more opinions. I decided to take my bottle of Nardil into CVS this morning to ask about the odor because I have never taken a medication that smelled so bad before. The lady asked me, "Where have you been storing these pills? In the sun?" Um, no. In my bedroom in my drawer. I don't think she believed me. They smelled the ones they had and I guess they were ok, otherwise they would have said it was a normal smell. So tomorrow I'm picking up new pills. My question is, if their pills didn't smell and mine did, how did mine go bad in less than a month? And what do I do to prevent that? I asked if I should store them in the refrigerator but she said that would make it worse. What should I do?
Thanks!
brooke
Posted by stargazer2 on June 14, 2007, at 10:30:55
In reply to Nardil Smell (what the pharmacist told me), posted by brooke484 on June 14, 2007, at 9:51:35
They do smell rather digustingly odd, I can't really describe the smell but it's not a pleasant one. I have to pick new pills today, I will ask my pharmacist about the smell and if they know anything about the formula change and its affect on the potency of it.
Yesterday I went to one of my two pdocs, the researcher, who wanted me to take 3 pills at night and 1 in the morning to try and reduce the fatigue I feel every afternoon. We will have me try this for the next 2 -3 weeks to see what happens. My BP this am was 104/60 and I was dizzy and lightheaded.
I'm not sure what's going on but I did have a brief response to Nardil the first week where I thought I was feeling a bit of "normalcy" which I felt intially with Nardil in 1987 and Marplan in 1994.
Now on Nardil X 1 month, I feel fatigued in the mid to late afternoon, and the sluggishness and lack of energy is overwhelming. Even walking is getting difficult to do. I also have cravings for sweets and my day has no pattern to it...some days I can do a few productive things...other days I am unable to do much of anything, including eating, which I have lost interest in.
I'm not sure what is going on.
The other thing the pdoc said to do was try and exercise 3-5 times a week, yeah right, I don't think he understands how I feel now. I feel dead most of the time. Not mentally depressed but physically failing. Usually I have more mood variablity and less physical symptoms, but either way it's definately causing me to question what is going on, since I thought Nardil would have done more than this.
Are other Nardil users taking anything else in combination with Nardil? I know GG takes Lithium and that may be useful if the effects don't start to kick in soon. Help with advice appreciated.
Stargazer
Posted by Phillipa on June 14, 2007, at 10:44:24
In reply to Nardil Smell and other ongoing issues w Nardil, posted by stargazer2 on June 14, 2007, at 10:30:55
Stargazer I think I will write to you. Love Phillipa
Posted by brooke484 on June 14, 2007, at 13:08:13
In reply to Nardil Smell and other ongoing issues w Nardil, posted by stargazer2 on June 14, 2007, at 10:30:55
Yes, please let us know what your pharmicist tells you. I didn't like the tone of mine. Basically accusing me of keeping it out in the sun or in the bathroom. I've been taking medication for over 10 years, so I think I know better. I think I read that Fred Potter keeps his in the refrigerator because his doctor told him to.
And, I just upped the dose to 30 mgs and the only reason I'm so tired is because I haven't slept in 2 days. I don't know if it was my husband's snoring, worrying about the fact that I did just up the dose, or the nardil itself. I'm going to take it after supper tonight, a little earlier and see if that makes a difference. I didn't have any fatigue on 15 mgs really.
I'll be interested in what you find out...
brooke
Posted by Sigismund on June 14, 2007, at 14:54:34
In reply to Nardil Smell (what the pharmacist told me), posted by brooke484 on June 14, 2007, at 9:51:35
>I asked if I should store them in the refrigerator but she said that would make it worse.
Why would this be?
Storing them in the sun makes them go off, in the fridge makes them worse, they're just right when they left the pharmacy, must be your fault, and so on.
Posted by FredPotter on June 14, 2007, at 15:44:41
In reply to Nardil Smell and other ongoing issues w Nardil, posted by stargazer2 on June 14, 2007, at 10:30:55
You're not taking a statin are you? I found a high dose of statin made me virtually unable to walk, play the piano etc. But anyway, I think you need more than a month. In my case the lift in depression occurred at 6.5 weeks and with a further improvement at 11 weeks. I'm on 60mg but was as high as 90mg. I'm 60 and have had anxiety and depression since I was 17, on and off. I've tried everything except Nardil, which I had to beg for, and it has given the remission I've always dreamt of over the years. How different things might have been. The drug was already available way back in 67. Of course it might poop-out, in which case I'll work up to 90mg again. One problem - no sex, but I'm 60 and not exactly trying to start a family. But it could be very tough for young men. Any recommendations for reinstating sex into my life? Fred
Posted by FredPotter on June 14, 2007, at 15:47:24
In reply to Re: Nardil Smell - stargazer, posted by brooke484 on June 14, 2007, at 13:08:13
Yes my pharmacist told me to keep it in the fridge, but it still smells of skunk. My pharm is a wonderful source of information and knows more than my Dr. He runs a program that checks for interactions when you're on several drugs
Posted by FredPotter on June 14, 2007, at 15:49:39
In reply to Re: Nardil Smell - stargazer » brooke484, posted by FredPotter on June 14, 2007, at 15:47:24
. . . and they smelled of skunk when I picked them up from the pharmacist
Posted by Quintal on June 14, 2007, at 16:50:59
In reply to Re: Nardil Smell and other ongoing issues w Nardil » stargazer2, posted by FredPotter on June 14, 2007, at 15:44:41
Did you ever try the cyproheptadine Fred? Is lack of arousal the main problem or anorgasmia? You could ask your pdoc to consider adding a dopamine agonist such as cabergoline, or there's Wellbutrin. Some people here have combined it with Nardil and lived to tell the tale, so I presume it's safe.
I think many depressed young men would already have run the gauntlet of SSRIs and suffered all the associated frustrations (both in anorgasmia and poor efficacy) before getting a shot at the MAOIs.
Q
Posted by brooke484 on June 14, 2007, at 19:45:12
In reply to Re: Nardil Smell (what the pharmacist told me), posted by Sigismund on June 14, 2007, at 14:54:34
.
Posted by brooke484 on June 14, 2007, at 19:47:22
In reply to Re: Nardil Smell - stargazer » brooke484, posted by FredPotter on June 14, 2007, at 15:47:24
Did your pharmacist tell you why you should do this if it doesn't say so on the bottle? Just wondering.
brooke
Posted by brooke484 on June 14, 2007, at 19:50:41
In reply to Nardil Smell and other ongoing issues w Nardil, posted by stargazer2 on June 14, 2007, at 10:30:55
There is a woman on another board who is having wonderful results with Parnate and Neurotin. She said she feels better on that than she did on the old Nardil alone. Is that an option for you?
brooke
Posted by FredPotter on June 14, 2007, at 22:20:36
In reply to Re: Nardil Smell and other ongoing issues w Nardil » FredPotter, posted by Quintal on June 14, 2007, at 16:50:59
Thanks Cabergoline sounds fun. At its worst, the sexual thing removes libido as well but the harder one to clear up is anorgasmia. Nardil is just as bad in this regard as any SSRI - worse if anything Fred
Posted by Quintal on June 14, 2007, at 22:50:13
In reply to Re: Nardil Smell and other ongoing issues w Nardil » Quintal, posted by FredPotter on June 14, 2007, at 22:20:36
Cyproheptadine is supposed to help with the anorgasmia (but I suppose you could become heavily sedated on that combo).
> Nardil is just as bad in this regard as any SSRI - worse if anything Fred
I know, that's why it's the only MAOI I haven't taken yet, the SSRIs were bad enough. Paroxetine didn't make it past the first week.
Q
Posted by stargazer2 on June 14, 2007, at 22:50:24
In reply to Nardil Smell (what the pharmacist told me), posted by brooke484 on June 14, 2007, at 9:51:35
...anything about the new vs old formulas and I explained this to him. He smelled my pills and say they smelled terrible and then smelled the ones they had in the bottle there and they had almost no smell. So he replaced mine and we will see what happens in the next few weeks although I'm thinking the little absorbant cube in their bottle may prevent the smell or exposure to air might cause the smell to increase.
Tonight I opened the bottle and I can get a sense of the smell starting to return already.
In any event,the Nardil is causing me such difficulties with lethargy and GI flatulence, it is not helping me very much. The afternoon sleepiness has been so extreme, I have to lay down and I usually fall asleep for 2 or 3 hours every afternoon. MY life has come to a complete halt right now and although I am not having suicidality or extreme depressive thoughts, the solmnolence is quickly eroding my faith in this drug.
And I had such high hopes for it as well. I have changed my dosing schedule to reduce the afternoon crash so now I'm taking 45 mg at bedtime and 15 mg in the morning. I'm supposed to try this for 2-3 weeks and see what happens.
All I can see is more life wasted on drug trials, it is very tiresome. No one understands how difficult it is to get your hopes up again and again and see them fail repeatedly.
Is there any hope left for me, I'm not sure anymore after so many years of fighting this demon. Maybe drugs are making me worse and that makes me doubt trying them for so long. I will not be able to fight this for much longer due to all the false hope I have been given for so long. I am reaching that level of despair again...
Stargazer
Posted by brooke484 on June 15, 2007, at 13:07:55
In reply to Re: Nardil Smell ,disappointment in Nardil, posted by stargazer2 on June 14, 2007, at 22:50:24
I'm sorry you are having these side effects. And I'm sorry you feel so down. I can't remember how long you said you've been on Nardil, but maybe you just need to wait a little longer? I almost gave up on Lexapro and then 3 months later it kicked in. It was like a miracle had happened. I'm not experiencing the fatigue that you are. It's the dizziness and lightheadedness that bothers me. It's especially worse after I increase the dose.
I picked up my new bottle of Nardil this morning and asked if they could give me one of those little cubes. I haven't opened my bottle yet to see if they smell. Maybe I'll email Pfizer and ask them why that happens.
I guess I don't really have any advice. I know with me I always feel awful for a week when I increase the dose. Give it a little more time. I just hope you start to feel better soon.
Take care!
Posted by FredPotter on June 17, 2007, at 15:42:08
In reply to Re: Nardil Smell ,disappointment in Nardil, posted by stargazer2 on June 14, 2007, at 22:50:24
Stargazer I'm not sure how long you've been on Nardil, but I was just like you until it kicked in at 6.5 weeks. I was zombied out and sleeping and my friends and children were telling me to give it up. I was on 90mg then but after it started to work I cut to 75mg then 30mg twice a day. I've had 6 weeks of freedom from depression. I'm active and enthusiastic. I look forward to getting up. I look forward to going to work and to going home. Everything's good. But I wouldn't have believed it at 4 weeks.
What's more the AD effect after 11 weeks has got even better. I've had some weight gain and complete loss of sexual function though. Also, although it's perhaps not dangerous to drink, I've found it makes me sleepy and is not a good combo for me. My advice FWIW is to hold on for another couple of weeks at 60mg/day. Best of luck. Let us all know how it goes.
All the best
Fred
Posted by FredPotter on June 17, 2007, at 15:44:30
In reply to disappointment in Nardil - stargazer, posted by brooke484 on June 15, 2007, at 13:07:55
So what if my Nardil smells like a dead skunk? - it works for me like no other AD. My pharmacist said they do smell but that was likely to be the thinner enteric coating. I don't understand why we're making so much of this smell thing
Posted by brooke484 on June 17, 2007, at 20:34:14
In reply to Nardil smell, posted by FredPotter on June 17, 2007, at 15:44:30
For me, this is the first time a medication has ever had a smell and I guess I was just nervous about it. I thought maybe it went bad. My second batch doesn't have a smell so I don't know what all of this means. But hey, if it works, who cares, right?
brooke
Posted by brooke484 on June 18, 2007, at 13:54:38
In reply to Re: Nardil Smell ,disappointment in Nardil » stargazer2, posted by FredPotter on June 17, 2007, at 15:42:08
Fred,
You said you have experienced depersonalization in the past. Do you still have it, and did the nardil help? Also, did you feel lightheaded a lot of the time, especially after increasing the dose? I've been on 30 mgs for a week and it seems to be getting worse, the lightheadedness. I'm trying to hang in there but it isn't easy when you feel like you could fall over at any minute.
Thanks,
brooke
Posted by stargazer2 on June 18, 2007, at 14:16:04
In reply to disappointment in Nardil - stargazer, posted by brooke484 on June 15, 2007, at 13:07:55
HI Brooke, I too have lightheadedness along with the afternoon fatique and little improvement in my ability to interact and enjoy things. I'm extremely self absorbed and not able to enjoy being with other people no matter how much I should be able to relax and enjoy anyone's company. I always have had difficulty with this but now it seems very prominent and my thoughts are intovertedand focus on my inability to communicate with a forced feeling.
I find it interesting that you persisted beyond two to three months and finally got a good response from Lexapro. I wouldn't have lasted without any response before then, why did you quit after getting a delayed response which was so long in coming?
I've been on Nardil exactly one month. My doc added Abilify last week tohelp with the lethargy, I think.
Stargazer
Posted by FredPotter on June 18, 2007, at 15:31:43
In reply to question for Fred, posted by brooke484 on June 18, 2007, at 13:54:38
Hi Brooke the depersonalisation has gone. I don't feel light headed on 60mg per day anymore, but I did on 75mg. It once took me 15 minutes to stand up, as I felt I was going to faint each time. I feel a bit dizzy sometimes but I think I get that anyway - a touch of Meniere's perhaps
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 18, 2007, at 18:43:56
In reply to Re: question for Fred » brooke484, posted by FredPotter on June 18, 2007, at 15:31:43
I'm on my 11th day on Nardil. My Nardil also smells. I didn't think any of it, since it smelled since I bought it. I figured it's just a different chemical so it must be "different" and hence the smell.
I don't know if this is the same side effect you're experiencing (light headedness) but I seem to lose my equilibrium at times. It feels good though. Somehow, it feels as if it's counteracting that horrible feeling of emotional pain in my stomach. Not sure why I feel so, but it's been a welcome side effect. I guess feeling relaxed is something I hadn't felt in a very looong time.
Posted by brooke484 on June 18, 2007, at 20:42:50
In reply to Re: question for Fred » brooke484, posted by FredPotter on June 18, 2007, at 15:31:43
So you didn't have it until you got to 75 mgs? I've had it since I started the medication. It got a little better after a week of being on 15 mgs but when I increased to 30 mgs it got bad again. It's not a very pleasant side effect, but it this works in the long run I guess it's all worth it.
Did you have dp before you started Nardil or was it gone long before?
Thanks!
brooke
Posted by FredPotter on June 18, 2007, at 20:43:23
In reply to Re: question for Fred, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 18, 2007, at 18:43:56
GI I'm very pleased Nardil is doing you some good. I found in the early weeks I got a buzz from it and a feeling of complete inner stillness and no hand tremor whatsoever. That's when I wasn't falling over things Fred
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