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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by wmd40 on May 9, 2007, at 20:55:30
MWM, 52, seeks AD for long term relationship. Must be as effective against major depression as cold water is against thirst, with a similar side-effect profile. I can tolerate varicose veins, ingrown toenails and tennis elbow, but any effects on the mind (other than the elimination of depression) are nonstarters.
The following specifically need not apply:
* bupropion
* clomipramine
* desipramine
* fluoxetine
* fluvoxamine
* imipramine
* mirtazapine
* moclobemide
* nefazodone
* paroxetine
* sertraline
* venlafaxineand, not to leave out an old favourite
* Saint John's Wort
Apply with monograph to wmd40, c/o Dr. Bob.
Posted by gardenergirl on May 9, 2007, at 21:03:22
In reply to Personal, posted by wmd40 on May 9, 2007, at 20:55:30
Posted by Phillipa on May 9, 2007, at 22:04:44
In reply to Personal, posted by wmd40 on May 9, 2007, at 20:55:30
Ha Ha that is funny a dating site that includes meds. Love Phillipa
Posted by Squiggles on May 10, 2007, at 8:24:56
In reply to Personal, posted by wmd40 on May 9, 2007, at 20:55:30
.....
> The following specifically need not apply:
>
> * bupropion
> * clomipramine
> * desipramine
> * fluoxetine
> * fluvoxamine
> * imipramine
> * mirtazapine
> * moclobemide
> * nefazodone
> * paroxetine
> * sertraline
> * venlafaxine
>
> and, not to leave out an old favourite
>
> * Saint John's Wort
>......Dear wmd40,
It sounds like you've had a promiscuous love
life with the SSRIs, MAOIs, TRIs, SNRIs,
--have i left anything out-- maybe lithium or
combination treatments. And you're still looking for that special one.Has your dr. considered moving to a different class of drugs? In the TAMI algorithm I posted,
I noticed that when all typical ADs fail, drs. often move to other categories: the Atypical anti-psycotics, and even Alzheimer's meds, or Bupronephine (e.g.).The thrill of seeking for the right one must by now, be long gone. I sympathize with your plight.
Squiggles
Posted by stargazer on May 10, 2007, at 8:46:25
In reply to Re: Personal, posted by Squiggles on May 10, 2007, at 8:24:56
These have worked for me when the list you have provided didn't, so they may be worth your while to look into. It's a long and bumpy road trying to get on the right track, but you still may find something that works. Also, now I'm hearing about ketamine and rizuzole for treatment resistant depression, newer research based trials but coming down the research trail for next stage AD's.
Stargazer
Posted by Squiggles on May 10, 2007, at 9:05:07
In reply to Nardil, Parnate, Abilify, stimulants...., posted by stargazer on May 10, 2007, at 8:46:25
OK - Parnate (SOMA- they really should have
waited for the IDEAL drug to name this Soma) is an MAOI - discontinued in the UK:http://canadapharmacy.rxcarecanada.com/PARNATE.asp?prodid=PARNATE
ABILIFY is an anti-psychotic, targeting dopamine receptors (whatever that means to you):
http://www.healthyplace.com/medications/abilify.asp
and
NARDIL, again an MAOI inhibitor-- what a petty these drugs scare people off with the dietary restrictions. On this site Rx-- there is a community board. Perhaps one can ask just how dangerous a hypertensive crisis in eating one of the restricted foods is, and how painful to follow the restrictions.
I know, from my case in lithium for example, that the Toxicity warning, and restriction for cardiac patients may have been overdone in the history of its medical literature.
http://www.drugs.com/pdr/nardil.html
Squiggles
Posted by wmd40 on May 10, 2007, at 19:25:42
In reply to Re: Personal, posted by Squiggles on May 10, 2007, at 8:24:56
Yes, I did have a few "menages-a-deux". I dated imipramine and lithium, but they didn't get along well; I got a nasty tremor, so I dumped the lithium. I also remember carrying on with imipramine and venlafaxine at the same time, but I found it no more satisfying than imipramine alone, so I dumped the venlafaxine. I know, I'm a bit of a cad where ADs are concerned, but I keep searching for the right one, and I've pretty much concluded that there isn't a right one. Remember, all I'm asking for is an AD that works as well as aspirin does for headaches, and has no mentally disabling side-effects. I've yet to hear even the slightest rumour that such a thing exists. Imipramine has the virtue of actually working, but at the cost of one's entire mental life; that's pretty high maintenance. The others mostly don't work, or cause headaches, crippling anxiety, anorgasmia, potentially fatal liver failure and/or plagues of &*^# brain locusts. I may as well just punch myself in the nose every time I feel depressed; it won't make the depression go away, and it will add to the misery of life, all for ZERO DOLLARS A MONTH!
Cheers,
wmd40
Posted by wmd40 on May 10, 2007, at 19:44:15
In reply to Nardil, Parnate, Abilify, stimulants...., posted by stargazer on May 10, 2007, at 8:46:25
> These have worked for me when the list you have provided didn't, so they may be worth your while to look into. It's a long and bumpy road trying to get on the right track, but you still may find something that works.
I'm afraid I'm getting cranky in my old age. Having tried so many, and not having anything even vaguely close to acceptable, I've become pretty adamant about not trying anything else that has a list of "possible" side-effects, including the ones you list. I admit that they might conceivably work for me, but I'm not willing to try them because they might work. What I'm looking for is an AD that has been taken by hundreds of people, not one of whom has every reported a mentally disturbing or crippling side effect, and every one of whom reports that the AD made their depression go away. That's the standard to which we hold headache medications, and that's what a few hundred billion dollars worth of "research" should have produced for depression.
> Also, now I'm hearing about ketamine and rizuzole for treatment resistant depression, newer research based trials but coming down the research trail for next stage AD's.
Maybe. I'll wait for the DVD :-).
wmd40
Posted by Squiggles on May 10, 2007, at 19:57:40
In reply to Re: Nardil, Parnate, Abilify, stimulants...., posted by wmd40 on May 10, 2007, at 19:44:15
You don't sound so brain-dead to me;
just thoroughly cranky from the yucky
side effects of imipramine. You ask
for advice, and when someone gives it,
you become eloquently sceptical about the
whole thing.Hmmmmm-- how about a Tylenol or Midol?
Squiggles
Posted by wmd40 on May 10, 2007, at 20:19:07
In reply to Re: Nardil, Parnate, Abilify, stimulants...., posted by Squiggles on May 10, 2007, at 19:57:40
> You don't sound so brain-dead to me;
Why, thank you! That's the nicest thing anyone's said about me all day! :-)
> just thoroughly cranky from the yucky
> side effects of imipramine.Not nearly as cranky as from the yucky side effects of moclobemide. The anorgasmia of clomipramine also cranks me up.
> You ask for advice, and when someone gives it,
> you become eloquently sceptical about the
> whole thing.Well, I do appreciate the suggestions, and I did actually check the monographs. I just think the list of adverse effects in each case is too long to justify the jump.
> Hmmmmm-- how about a Tylenol or Midol?Now we're talking! Those fix headaches, too,
and don't cause nasty side effects (in reasonable doses). We just need to get them working on depression.wmd40
Posted by Squiggles on May 10, 2007, at 20:23:20
In reply to Re: Nardil, Parnate, Abilify, stimulants...., posted by wmd40 on May 10, 2007, at 20:19:07
Honesty with yourself and your level of
resilience to balance the risks and benefits
of trying another drug, might help. Just
my opinion. The humour is appreciated of
course but is no substitute for the serious
business of treating major depression with
the right drugs.Squiggles
Posted by Squiggles on May 11, 2007, at 8:26:17
In reply to Re: Personal, posted by wmd40 on May 10, 2007, at 19:25:42
Has anyone here ever had a neurological
examination by CT scan or MRI to establish
a psychiatric diagnosis? Or is that too
far in the future? Also, is it very expensive?Squiggles
Posted by Phillipa on May 11, 2007, at 19:33:45
In reply to Re: Personal, posted by Squiggles on May 11, 2007, at 8:26:17
I've had Cat Scans and MRI's of the brain when active lymes disease was told a normal brain. Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on May 11, 2007, at 19:40:32
In reply to Re: Nardil, Parnate, Abilify, stimulants...., posted by wmd40 on May 10, 2007, at 19:44:15
>What I'm looking for is an AD that has been taken by hundreds of people, not one of whom has every reported a mentally disturbing or crippling side effect, and every one of whom reports that the AD made their depression go away. That's the standard to which we hold headache medications.....
Have you tried any headache medications wmd40? Ironically it's an OTC headache medication that works best for my anxiety and depression, better than any prescribed AD ever did. I often think people naive to psychiatry think antidepressants are 'happy pills' - a reasonable assumption that they make the user feel happy within maybe an hour of popping a pill, perhaps a bit like Valium makes the anxious person calm. But conventional antidepressants don't really work like that do they? Most often they make you feel numb and indifferent, or just plain weird. Opiates are the only thing I've found make me feel 'normal' (as in healthy), calm, and alive again. The small amounts of codeine in OTC headache pills have been sufficient for me, but some people here have been prescribed buprenorphine and even hydrocodone by their pdocs. Depending where you live (codeine isn't available OTC in the US for example) I'd recommend you give it a try. It usually takes half an hour to work.
Q
Posted by wmd40 on May 11, 2007, at 20:39:30
In reply to Re: Nardil, Parnate, Abilify, stimulants.... » wmd40, posted by Quintal on May 11, 2007, at 19:40:32
> Have you tried any headache medications wmd40?Hmm. I've tried them for headaches, with just the kind of results I want. Invariably, the headache goes away, and I remain fully conscious and alert. But it never occurred to me to try them for depression. No doctor ever suggested such a thing, but then again, no doctor ever suggested a satisfactory AD, so that's no argument.
Next time I see my GP, I'll ask her if she'll prescribe some ordinary headache pills with a small amount of codeine. That may just be the answer. (Moral: Never trust any medication that was invented by a pharmaceutical company. Stick with the stuff from the 19th century and you can't go wrong.)
Thanks Quintal,
wmd40
Posted by Quintal on May 11, 2007, at 21:06:17
In reply to Re: Nardil, Parnate, Abilify, stimulants...., posted by wmd40 on May 11, 2007, at 20:39:30
Well I wish you luck wmd40, but few doctors would be willing to do this because of potential addiction, dependence and tolerance (note the lack of concern for these drawbacks with conventional meds). I get mine from the pharmacy, ostensibly for my bad back. I suppose you could say this kind of off-label self-prescribing is devious - I'd call it resourceful. Depending on the relationship with your doctor it may be prudent to develop some chronically painful condition.
Q
Posted by wmd40 on May 11, 2007, at 22:27:09
In reply to Re: Nardil, Parnate, Abilify, stimulants.... » wmd40, posted by Quintal on May 11, 2007, at 21:06:17
Actually, I live in the Land of the Free (or Soviet Kanuckistan, as Pat Buchanan calls it), so I can actually get pain killers with codeine OTC from the pharmacy. The law just requires that there be two other active ingredients -- usually caffeine and either ASA or acetaminophen. But you're right that I probably shouldn't ask my doctor to prescribe it.Thanks again,
wmd40
This is the end of the thread.
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