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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by UGottaHaveHope on March 15, 2007, at 22:11:23
For all the hopeless out there, please read this post a few weeks ago from Blueberry. It's one of the greatest ever on this board. Think outside the box, folks!
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FROM BLUEBERRY1
> To answer your questions and share my thoughts with all here...
>
> Tramadol is about 75% relief of depression, fear, and anxiety parts of the day, and 100% relief at random times of the day. Anxiety...I used to sit in the break room at work, silent and in fear. Now I sit comfortably and actually talk with people. The following is a list of things I could previously not do, but I do now with even a tad of enthusiasm...cooking, cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping, working, taking care of family members, being in conversations with people, smiling sometimes, watching TV, playing guitar, stuff like that.
>
> What made me try it was comments from others at remedyfind.com, askapatient.com, and here. So many people (mileage does vary) said they had tried everything, and that nothing compared remotely to tramadol. Side effects first day were insomnia. Second day the opposite, somnolence. Third day and continuing, delayed orgasm and that's it. No other side effects. Sex drive seems a bit stronger.
>
> Unlike everything else, it did not make me worse right away. It kicked in on day 3. I am not taking any other drugs with it. Just 25mg once a day. Also take a spoonful of cod liver oil and a multivitamin. I want a new vitamin without copper because I have read that copper is one of the most toxic unrecognized common nutrients involved with psychiatric disorders. Almost all have copper. Geez.
>
> After piss-poor care from 5 psychiatrists, 2 GPS, and a specialty nurse practioner, I gave up on them. After thousands of dollars and 10 years I had no progress to show, and actually significant deterioration instead. Tramadol was my own decision and pretty much a last resort. Since all norepinephrine drugs make me much much worse, I expected bad things. I was surprised.
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> Tramadol's opioid action is in question because opioid blockers do not completely block it. Plus, I feel no euphoria, buzz, or rush at all. I also wonder about it's snri action, because ssris and snris take weeks to work, but tramadol works in hours or days instead.
>
> Tolerance and dependence are issues. But this whole board deals with those issues with every drug known to man. To hopefully keep those risks at bay I'm reading what longtime users have done. Some stay with the same constant dose year after year with no probs. Some take a day or two off each week.
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> Prozac, lexapro, depakote, lithium, zoloft, cymbalta, zyprexa, seroquel, st johns wort, xanax, klonopin, lorazepam, adrafinil, provigil, ritalin, adderall, amisulpride, tianeptine, milnacipran, and I know I forgot a handful of them...oh yeah, ECT also...none even come close to comparing to tramadol. Matter of fact, they all made me worse real fast. Tram is the standalone one that did not.
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> I must give credit where it is truly due. It does not belong to tramadol, a doctor, or me. It belongs 100% to God of the Bible. This probably should be on the spiritual board. Spiritual warfare is very real, very powerful, and constantly in motion. One prayer in the morning is like shooting a rifle once in the morning during a war and that's it for the day. God wants me, us, to surrender to Him completely and lay it all at His feet. He wants to show us His glory and power. But we have to submit our total weakness, obey, and whole-heartedly welcome His Holy Spirit to dwell with us in every moment. Constant prayer is more help than any drug.
>
Posted by Jedi on March 16, 2007, at 2:23:17
In reply to When all else fails, try Ultram, posted by UGottaHaveHope on March 15, 2007, at 22:11:23
Tramadol is a mildly serotonergic opiod that can cause serotonin syndrome when taken with a MAOI. Similar to meperidine in this regard, it can even cause DEATH!!! Think outside the box but do all your research. Taking MAOIs adds another level of responsibility to the patient. Many of the long term MAOI patients on this board know more than most PDOCs and MDs about these medications. You have to take the responsibility yourself. I know this is very difficult when you are deathly ill. I've been there.
Jedi (See abstract below)> For all the hopeless out there, please read this post a few weeks ago from Blueberry. It's one of the greatest ever on this board. Think outside the box, folks!
>
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> FROM BLUEBERRY1
> > To answer your questions and share my thoughts with all here...
> >
> > Tramadol is about 75% relief of depression, fear, and anxiety parts of the day, and 100% relief at random times of the day. Anxiety...
__________________________________________________________________Full text: http://bja.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/95/4/434
Br J Anaesth. 2005 Oct;95(4):434-41. Epub 2005 Jul 28.
Monoamine oxidase inhibitors, opioid analgesics and serotonin toxicity.Gillman PK.
Pioneer Valley Private Hospital, Mackay, Queensland, Australia. kg@matilda.net.auToxicity resulting from excessive intra-synaptic serotonin, historically referred to as serotonin syndrome, is now understood to be an intra-synaptic serotonin concentration-related phenomenon. Recent research more clearly delineates serotonin toxicity as a discreet toxidrome characterized by clonus, hyper-reflexia, hyperthermia and agitation. Serotonergic side-effects occur with serotonergic drugs, and overdoses of serotonin re-uptake inhibitors (SRIs) frequently produce marked serotonergic side-effects, and in 15% of cases, moderate serotonergic toxicity, but not to a severe degree, which produces hyperthermia and risk of death. It is only combinations of serotonergic drugs acting by different mechanisms that are capable of raising intra-synaptic serotonin to a level that is life threatening. The combination that most commonly does this is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI) drug combined with any SRI. There are a number of lesser-known drugs that are MAOIs, such as linezolid and moclobemide; and some opioid analgesics have serotonergic activity. These properties when combined can precipitate life threatening serotonin toxicity. Possibly preventable deaths are still occurring. Knowledge of the properties of these drugs will therefore help to ensure that problems can be avoided in most clinical situations, and treated appropriately (with 5-HT(2A) antagonists for severe cases) if they occur. The phenylpiperidine series opioids, pethidine (meperidine), tramadol, methadone and dextromethorphan and propoxyphene, appear to be weak serotonin re-uptake inhibitors and have all been involved in serotonin toxicity reactions with MAOIs (including some fatalities). Morphine, codeine, oxycodone and buprenorphine are known not to be SRIs, and do not precipitate serotonin toxicity with MAOIs.
PMID: 16051647 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on March 16, 2007, at 10:16:00
In reply to When all else fails, try Ultram-Just Not With MAOI » UGottaHaveHope, posted by Jedi on March 16, 2007, at 2:23:17
You are correct about a dangerous or deadly reaction if you are currently taking a MAOI and then add Ultram. Ultram must be taken when you are not on a MAOI and possibly other drugs, too, just haven't checked on it. I am assuming the reason Jedi brings this up is because I am taking Emsam, have made a ton of posts indicating that, and Jedi did not want anybody to be confused that I was the one taking Ultram.
That was BLUEBERRY'S "miracle post" at that top, and I thought that was very clear, but it is better to be safe than sorry so thanks Jedi!
Posted by Quintal on March 16, 2007, at 12:05:16
In reply to Re: Yes, do NOT take Ultram with MAOI » Jedi, posted by UgottaHaveHope on March 16, 2007, at 10:16:00
Micheal it's been known for a long time that opiates can bring a miraculous remission in treatment resistant depression - codeine is the only thing that's really keeping me feeling reasonably well and functional right now. I took tramadol for a few months years ago and felt wonderful. Tolerance developed rapidly though until I was taking 800mg a day after three months.
Q
Posted by Phillipa on March 16, 2007, at 12:15:04
In reply to Re: Yes, do NOT take Ultram with MAOI » UgottaHaveHope, posted by Quintal on March 16, 2007, at 12:05:16
Spriggy (google her) was in the hospital for over a month with chronic lymes and fibromyalgia and that is also what they put her on. Not her choice the specialists that are treating her. I also have chronic lymes and am getting ready to write her. Love Phillipa
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