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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by laima on January 23, 2007, at 21:41:34
Ok- First full disclosure: I got stuck with Barre generic "adderall" this month, not a generic with a good reputation apparently, and am dying for next month to see how the brand differs.
Meanwhile, remedyfind lists many testimonials about how great adderall is for mood.
When I took up to 15 mg of this generic with Emsam, it helped my mood, boosted blood pressure, helped ADD stuff- great.
When I experimented with more, about 25 or so, I felt great that particular day, not "better than well" or anything like that. But mood crashed at end of day. Kicking myself, I went to bed early after guzzeling my special blueberry antioxidant shake and taking extra fish oil. I though it was to be a one night crash. But my mood was in the toilet for over a solid week, regardless of using adderall pretty steadily. And I mean, DARK mood, morning, noon, and night. Before the "experiment day", I never had any crash whatsoever, despite close to month and a half use. My mood was alright, maybe lackluster as always. Why? What causes adderall to go bad, moodwise? And again, this hasn't at all resembled a pattern of take in day, crash at night. Ritalin never behaved like this (even on Emsam), I swear dexedrine never did either (though never had a chance to combine with selegeline- I used it longer ago.) What on earth could this be about? Could it be one of the adderall ingredients?
Thanks.
Posted by Phillipa on January 23, 2007, at 22:33:58
In reply to adderall-mood mystery, posted by laima on January 23, 2007, at 21:41:34
Didn't stargazer have a similar thing happen to her? I wonder if stimulants and EMSAM don't work well together. I do know a poster on EMSAM l2mg patchand 200mg of providgil who is doing very well. Maybe providgil will turn out to be the med to compliment the EMSAM in tough cases and klonopin for the other end of the spectrum. Love Phillipa
Posted by psychobot5000 on January 24, 2007, at 0:51:52
In reply to adderall-mood mystery, posted by laima on January 23, 2007, at 21:41:34
Anything's possible--maybe the high dose of the mixed amphetamine formula (adderall) trespassed in your brain's idea of a danger area for too much stimulation... Maybe it was too much dopamine when taken with a powerful MAO-b inhibitor like EMSAM?
But perhaps the bad experience, or other factors, might have affected your expectations of the medication, and added negative associations to it that make you wary? I find when I lose confidence in a drug, it has a practical effect on whether it can work for me, but maybe not everyone is like that.
Hope it works out--maybe you could take a break from the amphetamine? Keep in mind the mood-effects drugs have on various people are quite inconsistent.
Best,
Psychbot
Posted by blueberry1 on January 24, 2007, at 4:42:09
In reply to adderall-mood mystery, posted by laima on January 23, 2007, at 21:41:34
I crashed badly on my first sample dose of adderall. Totally unexpected. Don't know why. It was real bad. It was so bad I could not repeat.
I don't trust generics.
Have you tried Provigil?
Posted by laima on January 24, 2007, at 8:23:31
In reply to Re: adderall-mood mystery » laima, posted by Phillipa on January 23, 2007, at 22:33:58
Yes, I think so. But the thing is, I used ritalin in varying amounts for almost the entire time I was on Emsam, and it worked GREAT. The stimulant danger is agitation, high blood pressure. But that's not at all what I experienced with higher dose adderall. Lower dose was good, too. Just not as effective as higher dose ritalin.
> Didn't stargazer have a similar thing happen to her? I wonder if stimulants and EMSAM don't work well together. I do know a poster on EMSAM l2mg patchand 200mg of providgil who is doing very well. Maybe providgil will turn out to be the med to compliment the EMSAM in tough cases and klonopin for the other end of the spectrum. Love Phillipa
Posted by laima on January 24, 2007, at 8:34:36
In reply to Re: adderall-mood mystery, posted by psychobot5000 on January 24, 2007, at 0:51:52
Thanks, just for the sake of science here, I am taking a break. Seems like a good idea to resteady so I can perhaps figure out what's going on. Again, I'm bewildered why small amount was quite helpful, while a slightly greater amount caused a mood crash which lasted morning, noon, and night for days, despite additional dosing. It didn't correlate to when I took the adderall, and it didn't involve any agitation. Blood pressure stayed low. This was glum, zero energy depression. It does seem to be lifting now, and I'm enthusiastically consuming fish oil and phenylalanine, plus stepped up excersising.
Can a single episode of modestly higher use somehow sap out the brain?
I'm also eager to try the brand version of adderal for my next refill. It's true, I do feel very suspicious of my particular generic, which the pharmacy tech seemed to not have much respect for, and which doesn't have a very good internet reputation. (I saw a lot of people complained mercilessly over this particular formulation on some of the ADD sites.) So if the brand isn't any better, I want to either go back to ritalin, which was fine in any amount with Emsam, or try dexedrine, which has a stronger mood-boost reputation. I think I will resist any recommendation to use the XR version of Adderall due to what others have recently reported about it. I'm also fascinated to read what so many people are reporting about the so called inert ingredients affecting the performance of various generic drugs.
Posted by laima on January 24, 2007, at 8:41:25
In reply to Re: adderall-mood mystery, posted by blueberry1 on January 24, 2007, at 4:42:09
Thanks, I've tried provigel, but it doesn't boost my blood pressure on Emsam, and it doesn't help me with ADD. Ritalin is my tried and true Emsam stimulant, the theory was that adderall supposedly did all that in addition to providing a better mood boost. So the plan is to try brand adderal, then my fantasy plan would be to try dexedrine, and if those don't work, go back to ritalin and feel lucky. I sure wish there were samples I could try, but my doctor said "no samples of controlled substances", and he is reluactant to ever make switches back and forth. Big fan of "steady", unfortuneately, making any changes excruciatingly slowly. He thinks that way it's best possible to tell what did what.
Your own mood crash with adderall happened while it was working, not after, didn't it? So not like an amphetamine crash, I gathered. What on earth is up with that, I just don't get it. How odd that so many people on remedyfind gush about adderall as an antidepressent.
> I crashed badly on my first sample dose of adderall. Totally unexpected. Don't know why. It was real bad. It was so bad I could not repeat.
>
> I don't trust generics.
>
> Have you tried Provigil?
Posted by craiggetty on January 24, 2007, at 22:24:57
In reply to Re: adderall-mood mystery » blueberry1, posted by laima on January 24, 2007, at 8:41:25
I experienced crashes on adderall (and dexedrine) until I was eventually up to 60mg and still no good. I switched to the time release Adderall capsules and it made a world of difference. At 30 mg the boost lasts throughout the day, no crashes. Incidentally, the generic version did not work as well - and I have always been of the opinion that generics are just as good.
I have tried ritalin and had really bad crashes. I hear there is a time release ritalin now so that may be better. Provigil was not effective - about as muck kick as a strong cup of coffee.
Posted by laima on January 25, 2007, at 9:09:55
In reply to Re: adderall-mood mystery, posted by craiggetty on January 24, 2007, at 22:24:57
Thank you, I'm feeling more encouraged as I await my refill late next week- it's gonna be brand-name for sure, before I give up on adderall. I gotta say, my generic adderall simply does not do most of what I've read adderall is supposed to do. The saved money is hardly worth it if the product is ineffective.May I ask, are you talking about "crashes" in the conventional sense, meaning mood crashes as amphetamine wears off?
Part of my mystery is that the very poor mood, depression, seemed to have no correlation to when I took my generic adderal. For example, I'd wake up with it. I wonder if that is indicative of a long-lasting amphetamine crash? I also wonder if an amphetamine crash can be severe enough as to persist through a new dose- especially if the new dose is normal, not "extra".
So you say that you are not unfamiliar with mood slumps during the day with regular adderall, but not with the extended release?
You know, I've tried the time release ritalin and was very unimpressed. Meanwhile, I am a fan of both regular ritalin and even generic methylphenadate. My problem with the time release version was that it felt very inefffective, and it didn't last nearly as long as it was said to. I always imagined it meant I wasn't absorbing it properly or something.
Thanks again for your post.
> I experienced crashes on adderall (and dexedrine) until I was eventually up to 60mg and still no good. I switched to the time release Adderall capsules and it made a world of difference. At 30 mg the boost lasts throughout the day, no crashes. Incidentally, the generic version did not work as well - and I have always been of the opinion that generics are just as good.
>
> I have tried ritalin and had really bad crashes. I hear there is a time release ritalin now so that may be better. Provigil was not effective - about as muck kick as a strong cup of coffee.
Posted by craiggetty on January 25, 2007, at 16:42:08
In reply to Re: adderall-mood mystery » craiggetty, posted by laima on January 25, 2007, at 9:09:55
I would experience the "crashes" when the dexedrine/adderall would wear off. Very akin to cocaine, thus the Schedule II classification. I would also wake up with this low mood you're describing. When these stimulants wear off, your body and mind want more and mood gets low if you haven't taken for awhile. Of course, there is the other possibility that the drug is just not working for you and it's the depression itself you're experiencing.
I think you're smart to exhaust all the possibilities of one drug before moving on the next. If you experience the withdrawals during the day, I recommend the XR capsules. I a big fan of extended-release. I have also noticed a difference between Wellbutrin XL and the generic SR I was taking. The generic SR gave me the jitters. Even after I successfully quit coffee.
I wish you lots of luck and hope the adderall helps. If not, hang in there and try something else. The right med (or combo) is out there and you will eventually find it.
-Craig
>
> Thank you, I'm feeling more encouraged as I await my refill late next week- it's gonna be brand-name for sure, before I give up on adderall. I gotta say, my generic adderall simply does not do most of what I've read adderall is supposed to do. The saved money is hardly worth it if the product is ineffective.
>
> May I ask, are you talking about "crashes" in the conventional sense, meaning mood crashes as amphetamine wears off?
>
> Part of my mystery is that the very poor mood, depression, seemed to have no correlation to when I took my generic adderal. For example, I'd wake up with it. I wonder if that is indicative of a long-lasting amphetamine crash? I also wonder if an amphetamine crash can be severe enough as to persist through a new dose- especially if the new dose is normal, not "extra".
>
> So you say that you are not unfamiliar with mood slumps during the day with regular adderall, but not with the extended release?
>
> You know, I've tried the time release ritalin and was very unimpressed. Meanwhile, I am a fan of both regular ritalin and even generic methylphenadate. My problem with the time release version was that it felt very inefffective, and it didn't last nearly as long as it was said to. I always imagined it meant I wasn't absorbing it properly or something.
>
> Thanks again for your post.
>
>
> > I experienced crashes on adderall (and dexedrine) until I was eventually up to 60mg and still no good. I switched to the time release Adderall capsules and it made a world of difference. At 30 mg the boost lasts throughout the day, no crashes. Incidentally, the generic version did not work as well - and I have always been of the opinion that generics are just as good.
> >
> > I have tried ritalin and had really bad crashes. I hear there is a time release ritalin now so that may be better. Provigil was not effective - about as muck kick as a strong cup of coffee.
>
>
Posted by laima on January 25, 2007, at 18:24:55
In reply to Re: adderall-mood mystery » laima, posted by craiggetty on January 25, 2007, at 16:42:08
Thank you for your kind words of encouragement. Yes, I need to figure out what's up with "adderall" before writing it off. My mood dumps seem to have no correlation to dosing, so unless they are due to a long protacted, even lasting-through-the-night "crash", they are likely due to my depression itself. I didn't notice any classic "crash" with ritalin, nor with a lower dose of adderall, so maybe that's not the explanation. Actually, my doctor believes in checking out a med thoroughly and does not like to move around. So the choice is almost made for me. I can see the logic, I guess. If one jumps around too much, it's always chaos and hard to tell what caused what.
Posted by alohashirt on January 25, 2007, at 22:33:35
In reply to Re: adderall-mood mystery » craiggetty, posted by laima on January 25, 2007, at 18:24:55
Reactionws to medication seem to be very personal. Both Rital and Focalin made me nasty, But Focalin XR is a treat. Adderall made me jittery, yet dexedrine felt smooth. Dexedrine was probably the cleanest feeling stimulant but it did impair sleep and I was always afraid I was mistaking effervescence foir positive impact. And by jingo did it make me chatty.I guess that Vyvanse will be the next experiemntal doofus drug that I try to fix mytself with.
;-)
>
> Thank you for your kind words of encouragement. Yes, I need to figure out what's up with "adderall" before writing it off. My mood dumps seem to have no correlation to dosing, so unless they are due to a long protacted, even lasting-through-the-night "crash", they are likely due to my depression itself. I didn't notice any classic "crash" with ritalin, nor with a lower dose of adderall, so maybe that's not the explanation. Actually, my doctor believes in checking out a med thoroughly and does not like to move around. So the choice is almost made for me. I can see the logic, I guess. If one jumps around too much, it's always chaos and hard to tell what caused what.
Posted by laima on January 26, 2007, at 8:27:20
In reply to Re: adderall-mood mystery, posted by alohashirt on January 25, 2007, at 22:33:35
I liked dexedrine. Maybe it's those "other" amphetamines in adderall which make it tempermental. My fantasy is that the doctor will agree to prescribe dexedrine again. I'll take some of that effervesence about now and deal with it... Alas, he's very conservative, in that he doesn't like to jump around with meds. It doesn't help that I already brought up how well I did with low dose of it in the past, and ended up feeling like a drug-shopper. And wasn't successful, either.
> Reactionws to medication seem to be very personal. Both Rital and Focalin made me nasty, But Focalin XR is a treat. Adderall made me jittery, yet dexedrine felt smooth. Dexedrine was probably the cleanest feeling stimulant but it did impair sleep and I was always afraid I was mistaking effervescence foir positive impact. And by jingo did it make me chatty.
>
> I guess that Vyvanse will be the next experiemntal doofus drug that I try to fix mytself with.
>
> ;-)
>
> >
> > Thank you for your kind words of encouragement. Yes, I need to figure out what's up with "adderall" before writing it off. My mood dumps seem to have no correlation to dosing, so unless they are due to a long protacted, even lasting-through-the-night "crash", they are likely due to my depression itself. I didn't notice any classic "crash" with ritalin, nor with a lower dose of adderall, so maybe that's not the explanation. Actually, my doctor believes in checking out a med thoroughly and does not like to move around. So the choice is almost made for me. I can see the logic, I guess. If one jumps around too much, it's always chaos and hard to tell what caused what.
>
>
Posted by elanor roosevelt on January 28, 2007, at 11:05:41
In reply to Re: adderall-mood mystery » alohashirt, posted by laima on January 26, 2007, at 8:27:20
i have strange mornings since i started adderall
don't want to move
fine once i get up
but i really don't want to move
Posted by laima on January 28, 2007, at 11:17:40
In reply to morning after:adderall, posted by elanor roosevelt on January 28, 2007, at 11:05:41
How strange! One would imagine that during the night the brain would clean up and clear out? May I ask, how much adderall are you using, and how late in the day is your last dose? The short acting or long acting? Thanks, Eleanor.> i have strange mornings since i started adderall
> don't want to move
> fine once i get up
> but i really don't want to move
Posted by elanor roosevelt on January 29, 2007, at 6:25:23
In reply to Re: morning after:adderall » elanor roosevelt, posted by laima on January 28, 2007, at 11:17:40
i have been taking 5mg of adderall a few hours after waking then 2.5mg with 10mg lexapro at noon
have to take some adderall at noon bc i was fading away in the evenings too soon for bed
i was falling asleep without ambien but not sleeping well and having bad dreams
even with the ambien the dreams are annoying at best
on lexapro i bit my nails and stopped the day i started adderall
the adderall has a bad effect on my posture
i slump and curl up
Posted by laima on January 29, 2007, at 8:44:45
In reply to Re: morning after:adderall, posted by elanor roosevelt on January 29, 2007, at 6:25:23
Wow, do you think it's a good med for you? Your side effects, like curling up, sound unusual.
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